T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

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mawolfe

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T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 5:35 pm

Both of my 4 and 6k pocket cameras won't record more than a a few seconds when recording to the new Samsung T7 SSD. Just wondering if this is a firmware issue? Surely it's not a data rate, since the T7 is about twice the write speed of my older T5s that still do work.

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jun 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Hi, there's a fairly current thread about this, with a post as recently as five days ago: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112521
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 2:33 am

Short answer, no. The T7 drive is not on the BMD recommended list, and just does not work with the camera.
It can not sustain the continuous write speeds required for video capture.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostWed Jul 01, 2020 5:59 am

The T5, particularly the 1TB, are not being sold on B&H and Adorama. For now they only have the T5 500 and 2TB. According to the person I exchanged email on B&H, the T7 are replacing the T5. If those T7 will not work on the BMD cameras (UMP G2, BMPCC4/6K) that is a problem. I don't know why this is and just thinking that the issue possibly could be the SATA protocol that requires a USB 3.1 Gen 2 and is having issues with the transfer speed with the Gen 1 which the BMD ports is. BMD has to address this soon.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSat Jul 04, 2020 9:17 pm

T7 uses buffer to get it's speed.
When the buffer fills up when shooting video the speed goes way below the speed of T5.
T7 is a great option for photos because it is great for smaller sequental file copy.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 4:42 pm

It's not data rate, the problem is something else. My P6k would not record even 1 sec of HD prores proxy on the T7.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 10:00 pm

This is why BMD created their own speed test app. Because they test for what LARGE VIDEO FILES need, which is almost NEVER what disk makers test when they publish their numbers.

The published write speed is a meaningless number. It usually isn't the claimed number when you start recording continuously using a large video file.

So while your drive may work fine for "small" multitudinous files like audio or photos, it may perform differently when doing a big phat BRAW file at 60 FPS..

Anyone run the T7's though this ?

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/blackmagi ... 4550?mt=12

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 10:53 pm

It seems to me that debating why T7 SSDs don't work with Blackmagic cameras is beside the point.

According to both Adorama and B&H, Samsung has discontinued the 1TB T5. The future of the 500GB T5 is unclear. As of this afternoon, Amazon U.S. itself is out of stock and says "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock."

This has ramifications for the future of the Blackmagic Pocket 4K. The realistic alternative is CFast cards, a storage medium that is in the process of being replaced, and which currently costs in excess of US$1 per gigabyte.

I would like to think that Blackmagic is working on a source of supply of SSDs that do work with the camera, because telling prospective buyers that their only choice is CFast cards is not going to help sales, both new and on the second-hand market.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 10:59 pm

CFAST cards don’t really suffer from these problems. I still remember the majority of threads in 2013 / 2014 were about SSDs in the OG BMCC.

I’m not sure where you get being replaced from.

All the major cinema cameras are using CFAST. Even The not yet available to buy Komodo.

Maybe 5 years from now.

But not today. Not tomorrow.

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 11:05 pm

John Brawley wrote:CFAST cards don’t really suffer from these problems. I still remember the majority of threads in 2013 / 2014 were about SSDs in the OG BMCC.

I’m not sure where you get being replaced from.

All the major cinema cameras are using CFAST. Even The not yet available to buy Komodo.

Maybe 5 years from now.

But not today. Not tomorrow.

JB


John, you're sidestepping the issue.

Price is a major selling point for the Pocket 4K. Convincing people to purchase a camera that uses storage that costs over $1 per gigabyte is a problem. In the real world of Pocket 4K, an awful lot of people - I suspect a majority - are using T5 SSDs precisely because they are significantly less expensive than CFast cards. A 1TB T5 is almost a fifth the cost of CFast.

Blackmagic would have to be crazy if it's not looking for a source of supply, maybe from Samsung itself.
Last edited by robedge on Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 11:15 pm

robedge wrote:
John Brawley wrote:CFAST cards don’t really suffer from these problems. I still remember the majority of threads in 2013 / 2014 were about SSDs in the OG BMCC.

I’m not sure where you get being replaced from.

All the major cinema cameras are using CFAST. Even The not yet available to buy Komodo.

Maybe 5 years from now.

But not today. Not tomorrow.

JB


John, you're sidestepping the issue.

Price is a major selling point for the Pocket 4K. Convincing people to purchase a camera that uses storage that costs over $1 per gigabyte is a problem. In the real world of Pocket 4K, an awful lot of people are using T5 SSDs - I suspect a majority - precisely because they are significantly less expensive than CFast cards.

Blackmagic would have to be crazy if it's not looking for a source of supply, maybe from Samsung itself.


Sidestepping ? What issue ?

There’s 3 different types of media the camera can use. There’s plenty of options, and more reliable ones.

While it’s technically possible to use a qualified USB-C drive I think its crazy to do so.

I wish they’d never added that so called feature in the first place.

So many issues with this camera come from using SSDs and USBc cables.

I know that it works for some and it’s convenient but it’s not a serious solution. Like HDMI, it’s just too fragile. Yes you CAN do it, but I don’t think anyone who values their work would want to expose themselves to serious risk like this.

If users value RAW and high bit depth recording then they will eventually figure out they also need to match that ambition with the right media.

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 05, 2020 11:24 pm

John Brawley wrote:Sidestepping ? What issue ?


Price.

The fact that you and some others on here don't like T5 SSDs is completely beside the point.

Why do you think Blackmagic made it possible to use an SSD in the first place? And we both know that SD cards are not a realistic alternative.

This isn't complicated. The absence of SSDs as an option is likely to hurt Pocket 4K sales. Used? As a Pocket 4K owner, I am really not interested in trying to sell a $1300 camera in a used market restricted to people who are prepared to pay over $1 per gigabyte for storage. Have a look at the posts on here from people who say that they are trying to stock up on T5 SSDs while they still can. That's the real world.

I would be amazed if Blackmagic is not looking for a way to address this.

People who look down at T5 SSDs should maybe think about what an end to SSD storage as an option would do to the resale value of their cameras.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 1:21 am

robedge wrote:Price.


How is this an issue ?

There's other options out there, including SSDs.

robedge wrote:The fact that you and some others on here don't like T5 SSDs is completely beside the point.


It's not that I don't like them. I just wouldn't want to ever rely on them. Case in point really, on top of the many many other issues they have,

robedge wrote:Why do you think Blackmagic made it possible to use an SSD in the first place? And we both know that SD cards are not a realistic alternative.


I've used SD cards. Again, using the sanctioned ones works fine too.

robedge wrote:This isn't complicated. The absence of SSDs as an option is likely to hurt Pocket 4K sales. Used? As a Pocket 4K owner, I am really not interested in trying to sell a $1300 camera in a used market restricted to people who are prepared to pay over $1 per gigabyte for storage. Have a look at the posts on here from people who say that they are trying to stock up on T5 SSDs while they still can. That's the real world.


And the real world has changed. This isn't the first time this has happened...the spec change on a previously supported media.
There's another thread that's pinned here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83050



robedge wrote:
I would be amazed if Blackmagic is not looking for a way to address this.



What is that you think they can do ?

They provide a USB-C port. They don't make the media.

The demands on that port are niche in the scheme of things. Small. Tiny. Trifling. They I'm sure can ask a company like Samsung, but I doubt it's something they can "fix" now. It sounds like T7's have been designed for a mass market use, not for a few thousand BMD cameras shooting BRAW.

Luckily there's plenty of other media options, some more expensive than others. But what other camera even offers you three different media choices ? What other camera even allows you to shoot RAW direct to SSD ? the Sigma FP is the only other camera I can think of.

robedge wrote:People who look down at T5 SSDs should maybe think about what an end to SSD storage as an option would do to the resale value of their cameras.


I don't buy a camera to resell it.

I buy cameras to shoot with.

And I don't want to ever miss a shot because of media.

SSD's create an extra level of risk that in my view in unacceptable.

And it's not an END to SSD storage. ONE VENDOR has apparently stopped making supported media.

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 1:44 am

John, you and I apparently live in different worlds. There's no point in us discussing this further.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 4:08 am

Of course John is right concerning the absurd fragility of the USB C connection and its lack of suitability for production environments. The only decent solution I have found which tipped me in favour of being able to justify using it he Tilta cage/USB C cable solution which actually enables you to connect the USB C connector/cable with screws to the cage.

On another matter, the right SD cards work very well with the BMPCC 4k. In particular, for those people who shoot almost exclusively in Q5 the relatively low cost and higher end Samsung photo SD card works even for slow motion.

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 4:29 am

Robert Castiglione wrote:Of course John is right concerning the absurd fragility of the USB C connection and its lack of suitability for production environments. The only decent solution I have found which tipped me in favour of being able to justify using it he Tilta cage/USB C cable solution which actually enables you to connect the USB C connector/cable with screws to the cage.

On another matter, the right SD cards work very well with the BMPCC 4k. In particular, for those people who shoot almost exclusively in Q5 the relatively low cost and higher end Samsung photo SD card works even for slow motion.

Rob


In other words, you're successfully using Samsung T5 SSDs in a commercial production environment, presumably to save money, not that most of the owners and probable purchasers are using the Pocket 4K in a commercial production environment in the first place.

I kind of doubt that telling people that SSDs don't matter because they can make limited use of the camera by using SD cards is a killer selling point. Hope that they don't check out the price of Sony Tough cards :)

Blackmagic is trying to sell cameras, and unless this gets fixed, it is going to have to try to sell the same cameras with a disappeared storage option that is a lot cheaper than CFast cards. Nothing you said, but surely that is an obvious problem. The idea that the people in Blackmagic marketing aren't focused on this is mindboggling. It's also a problem for people who care about the resale value of their cameras, which just might be a higher percentage of owners than has been suggested in this thread.

I think that if the Pocket 4K goes forward with only CFast cards as a realistic storage option, it will amount to a decision by Blackmagic about who it wants to sell cameras to. Will be interesting to see what it does.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 5:37 am

Wow, I'm just not understanding the road block here Rob.

You know Samsung aren't the only ones making SSD's right ?

1TB from G-Tech for $179. Appears to be semi water resistant (unlike the Samsung)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... 917/SID/EZ

There's the Delkin "juggler" with a nifty built in mount.
1TB for $199
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... 596/SID/EZ

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 6:13 am

John Brawley wrote:Wow, I'm just not understanding the road block here Rob.

You know Samsung aren't the only ones making SSD's right ?



No, I didn't know that. I'm basically stupid and I thank you for explaining it to me.

Samsung is one of the few actual manufacturers and is dominant, at least in North America, for the use case. Several of the other brands on Blackmagic's approved list are in fact rebrands.

What's needed is a clear statement from Blackmagic about the future of SSDs for Pocket 4K storage and clear identification of what will and won't work going forward. This is marketing 101.

On the upside, it looks like you've finally figured out what the issue is and now realise that your opinions on SSDs and how long you personally keep your cameras are irrelevant. Next try not to ask completely stupid, indeed insulting, questions, such as whether people that you're addressing know that SSDs are sold under more than one brand name.

You know what else you could do? Start saying at the end of each of your posts which camera companies are paying you or giving you freebies. That isn't marketing 101, it's ethics 101. Eventually, readers here learn that Olympus pays you. Who else? Do you have a financial relationship with Blackmagic?
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 6:31 am

What’s up here?
JB is one of the very knowledgeable and helpful guys around here.
I see no reason to treat him like this.
He is making valid points. Other options instead of Samsung are real and they are not just ‘rebranded’.
The chips inside may be made by Samsung, but the simple fact that they are still compatible is proof that these are not T7 with another label.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 6:43 am

Uli Plank wrote:What’s up here?
JB is one of the very knowledgeable and helpful guys around here.
I see no reason to treat him like this.
He is making valid points. Other options instead of Samsung are real and they are not just ‘rebranded’.
The chips inside may be made by Samsung, but the simple fact that they are still compatible is proof that these are not T7 with another label.


In fact, the degree to which rebranded SSDs and other storage media, including CFast, are tailored is notoriously opaque. The fact that these SSDs are compatible today, just as T5s are, does not mean that they will be compatible next month. On this issue, I suggested earlier that one possibility is for Blackmagic to make a deal with Samsung or someone else for SSDs that are tailored to Blackmagic cameras. Earlier, Brawley actually quarrelled with that. It ain't Blackmagic's problem, don't ya know. What's needed now is clarity, which I would like to think Blackmagic has figured out.

I also think that it's not just odd, but wrong, that someone who posts here regularly is being paid by at least one camera company and there is zero acknowledgment of that at the end of his posts. If you have a problem with that view, then you could use a lesson in basic ethics and transparency yourself. People who have been around for awhile know that he's being paid by Olympus. It's not unreasonable to ask whether he's also being paid by others, and by Blackmagic in particular.
Last edited by robedge on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 6:46 am

The issue with the T7 is its design. It gets irs fast “write speed” from an on board buffer memory, which fills quickly, then the actual write speed is slower than the T5. The T7 incompatibility is nothing to do with BMD or the PC4K camera design, other than its requirement for fast media write speeds to deal with the camera’s high band width files. I am with John, prefer CFast to the SSD, especially for production jobs.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 3:42 pm

robedge wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Wow, I'm just not understanding the road block here Rob.

You know Samsung aren't the only ones making SSD's right ?




What's needed is a clear statement from Blackmagic about the future of SSDs for Pocket 4K storage and clear identification of what will and won't work going forward. This is marketing 101.



You mean like the certified media list that BMD publish ?

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59025

As linked from the BMD marketing page. I just assumed you might have checked that list.


robedge wrote:
On the upside, it looks like you've finally figured out what the issue is and now realise that your opinions on SSDs and how long you personally keep your cameras are irrelevant. Next try not to ask completely stupid, indeed insulting, questions, such as whether people that you're addressing know that SSDs are sold under more than one brand name.

You know what else you could do? Start saying at the end of each of your posts which camera companies are paying you or giving you freebies. That isn't marketing 101, it's ethics 101. Eventually, readers here learn that Olympus pays you. Who else? Do you have a financial relationship with Blackmagic?



You’re questioning my ethics only because you don’t like the judgement you’re inferring because I was disparaging towards using SSD.

If I was on BMDs payroll then would I be allowed to say such a thing ? Isn’t it contradictory to allege I’m somehow covering BMD as I also disparage on a public forum an engineering choice they made ?

I’m usually open about my relationship with both BMD and Olympus and mention it when relevant.

I am an Olympus Visionary. You might find this hard to believe but I am not actually PAID for this role. They have paid my costs for trips to their factories. They have paid to produce content I’ve shot. But they’ve never paid me in cash. And if you look at my Instagram it’s a mix of Olympus and Leica shots. In a typical brand influencer relationship they normally forbid you mentioning other brands in the same space. But you’ll notice I shoot both leica and Olympus stills.

Same as BMD. They pay for costs for content when I’m asked to shoot it ( for models and crew etc) but I don’t charge them for my time.

I get to keep cameras, which frankly are often hand made prototypes that are first off the line. I can’t sell them. I don’t charge anyone to use them. They are not an income stream.

I also spend my own time and resources on a blog sharing my own camera tests. No advertisements. Nothing is monetised. I take pride in my independence and my opinions that I’m able to share.

It’s a shame that you have to resort to name calling and personal insults, pivoting to character assassination.

I’ve been here a long time. I think the regular users of this forum understand where I come from.

I’m not a paid for endorsement influencer. I’m a working DP that has developmental relationships with some manufacturers ( you missed a few ) and I always ask to paid only my actual costs so that my involvement doesn’t cost me, because I enjoy being a part of the development process and I always have the ability to say whatever my opinion actually is.

You seem upset that I’m talking for BMD and simultaneously upset about my disparaging comments about BMD.

Take a look at the supported SSD list and try to bring it back to a discussion that doesn’t involve personal insults.

JB
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 4:08 pm

John Brawley wrote:You’re questioning my ethics only because you don’t like the judgement you’re inferring because I was disparaging towards using SSD.

If I was on BMDs payroll then would I be allowed to say such a thing ? Isn’t it contradictory to allege I’m somehow covering BMD as I also disparage on a public forum an engineering choice they made ?

I’m usually open about my relationship with both BMD and Olympus and mention it when relevant.

I am an Olympus Visionary. You might find this hard to believe but I am not actually PAID for this role. They have paid my costs for trips to their factories. They have paid to produce content I’ve shot. But they’ve never paid me in cash. And if you look at my Instagram it’s a mix of Olympus and Leica shots. In a typical brand influencer relationship they normally forbid you mentioning other brands in the same space. But you’ll notice I shoot both leica and Olympus stills.

Same as BMD. They pay for costs for content when I’m asked to shoot it ( for models and crew etc) but I don’t charge them for my time.

I get to keep cameras, which frankly are often hand made prototypes that are first off the line. I can’t sell them. I don’t charge anyone to use them. They are not an income stream.

I also spend my own time and resources on a blog sharing my own camera tests. No advertisements. Nothing is monetised. I take pride in my independence and my opinions that I’m able to share.

It’s a shame that you have to resort to name calling and personal insults, pivoting to character assassination.

I’ve been here a long time. I think the regular users of this forum understand where I come from.

I’m not a paid for endorsement influencer. I’m a working DP that has developmental relationships with some manufacturers ( you missed a few ) and I always ask to paid only my actual costs so that my involvement doesn’t cost me, because I enjoy being a part of the development process and I always have the ability to say whatever my opinion actually is.

You seem upset that I’m talking for BMD and simultaneously upset about my disparaging comments about BMD.

Take a look at the supported SSD list and try to bring it back to a discussion that doesn’t involve personal insults.

JB

Hey John, I'm sorry to see you having to respond this way and justify your ethics which is no damn business of anyone here. Some of these new comers are just nuisance to the forum and I have put them on my foe list so I can ignore their petty insults and trolling post. Unfortunately this is how they feed their ego. Take a breathe and just ignore their stupidity. It's not worth responding or justifying at all. We know who are worth collaborating and to exchange conversations here with. I'm sure I'll be flamed by those whose egos are going to be hurt - but ask me if I care, they can pound sand coz they're in my foe list now. :evil:
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 2Tb RAID 0 SSD Cache/Scratch Drive / 14Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.2.1
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John Brawley

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 6:01 pm

I think we could summarise....

The T5, which is currently the most affordable SSD available that works with BRAW cameras is looking like it's going EOL. That's my guess from reading posts here. I have no other special knowledge.

The T7 which Samsung would have you believe replaces the T5 doesn't work. And by the way, did anyone try one out on the BMD speed test app as suggested to see what it reports back ?

There are other certified and confirmed media options that are still currently available. A list that BMD publish is still incredibly relevant and has multiple options.

There are specialised media providers like Angelbird who also make their own media specifically for the BMD cameras, mostly likely at some increase in cost because that's how it works...it's no longer a commodity item bought in the millions.

You want specially made for BMD with BMD consulting ? It already exists.

https://www.angelbird.com/category/blac ... esign-210/

They do SSD, CFAST and SD cards.

Hey I use them. I love them in fact and they're a great company. No I didn't get paid by them or any special deals. I have emailed the owner though and they're very responsive.

Any "special" making of media takes up a huge amount of time and R&D to keep it certified, because they all use components that are commodity items with short manufacturing cycles. If BMD were to do this you'd end up with what special unicorn media like RED did (and look how that worked out for them)
https://www.cinema5d.com/red-mini-mag-a ... ond-video/

By the way the whole redmag controversy is likely because they are dealing with issues precisely like this where a manufacturing line stops after 18 months, after they've done all the work to specify a certain part.

So lets go to something very high end and reliable like what Codex do.

$2380 for 1TB.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... e_1tb.html

I bet if you break that open you'll find a version of consumer memory in there, just like the jinimag.

If you're relying on a commodity item that's adapted from another purpose then that's just great luck that it works and is so cheap without having to pay for special media.

There's no responsibility on BMD's behalf to somehow force Samsung to keep making those cheap consumer SSDs that they surely ship in the hundreds of thousands to fit the esoteric demands on a few BMD owners.

That's maybe hard to comprehend for an end consumer, but really, Samsung are more interested in the lowest costs for the maximum number of users, and that's not us.

Any "special" relationship will simply be Samsung, likely doing what they do to Angelbird(for example) or Codex or RED saying, sure we'll sell you some appropriate memory cells, but they sell them at a greater wholesale cost than what they are for their own marketed memory. All those examples of branded special media are massively marked up.

This is just business. There's nothing nefarious in it, and more importantly, USB SSD's are not going away, there's plenty of options out there THAT WORK TODAY and there will always be options as long as you pay the premium price (still cheaper that CFAST) for that use.

Throwing all your toys on the ground because the REALLY cheap option went away isn't on BMD. There's no cloudy future here. Plenty of SSD's available. Plenty will always be available. You just have to pay a little more than you want to or are used to paying, but still less than CFAST.

Complaining about the cost of media with a camera that's main selling feature is the amazing quality it achieves by using a lot of media seems a bit incongruous. That's part of the buy-in logic of shooting a RAW 12 bit codec or 10 bit ProRes isn't it ?

JB
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Ellory Yu

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 10:04 pm

Well, too bad I just bought a couple of those SmallRig T5 clamps for the BMPCC6K and UMP G2 two months ago and when I started to look for the T5, I was having some difficulty finding 1Tb T5s. :( I used to just use CFAST but I had a coming project that was going to be shot in Prores 422 HQ so the T5's was going to be ideal.
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John Brawley

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 06, 2020 10:15 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Well, too bad I just bought a couple of those SmallRig T5 clamps for the BMPCC6K and UMP G2 two months ago and when I started to look for the T5, I was having some difficulty finding 1Tb T5s. :( I used to just use CFAST but I had a coming project that was going to be shot in Prores 422 HQ so the T5's was going to be ideal.


Well there's still 2TB and 500Gb ones available, for maybe the next little while anyway.

JB
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Tom Roper

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jul 07, 2020 6:19 am

robedge; It looks like Delkin DJUGBM1TB may be the way to go. B&H has it in stock for the same price as Amazon with free expedited shipping, comes with the USB-C cable and mounting clip with 1/4-20 thread, 48 hour replacement warranty and certified for BMD P4k/P6K/Ursa Mini Pro G2. I just ordered one, can't wait to try it. Cheers.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jul 07, 2020 6:47 am

John Brawley wrote:
Well there's still 2TB and 500Gb ones available, for maybe the next little while anyway.

JB

I just ordered 2 x 2TB instead. Should be good for now.
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 64Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 2Tb RAID 0 SSD Cache/Scratch Drive / 14Tb 7200rpm HDD Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 16.2.1
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jul 07, 2020 9:28 am

Folks have to remember that forum threads don't convey emotions. What one says in a thread doesn't necessary mean to attack someone until insulting language is used - and that goes way beyond what this forum is about. A lot of members, including myself belong to several other forums, but IMO, this is where I get fed the most information. I don't want to sound biased, but John has contributed a lot to this forum and should be treated with some respect. That doesn't mean Rob hasn't made some valid opinions in the past. They are both valuable to this forum. I have made rash decisions and reckless statements in the past, but I am now the wiser.It's always better to listen, watch and learn than to jump in with an opinion, simply because you are good at what you do. Let's keep this community alive, and try to be respectful to each other, because in these words, you can never read the writer's emotion.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostTue Jul 07, 2020 12:07 pm

Well said Art.

I cant help but see the amusing side of this particular thread. How on earth could all this emotion be unleashed by a discussion about Solid State Drives?
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 19, 2020 6:03 am

As of this date the T7 will not work with the P4k.. The prices have gone up on the T5.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 19, 2020 7:19 am

My posture on the certified list of media from BMD, whether it is for the pocket 4 or 6K, or the UMP G2 to date are:

1. If I'm going to shoot ProRes, the SSD options is what I would used. So far, anyone of the SSD's in the list works and has stability with ProRes (Film or Video mode). When projects are not demanding RAW, or for personal interest, this is the media I use. I was able to get a couple of 1TB T5's and also a couple of 500Gb T5's last week (just by being persistent in looking and possibly luck).

2. For paid narrative work and recording in BRAW especially less compressed codec, HFR, and > 2.8K, CFast is the way to go. It is the most reliable media for me. Yes it is expensive but should just be the standard media for real production work. I have 8 256Gb CFast 2.0 that I rotate between my UMP and Pocket 6K.

3. I also used SD Cards (128Gb, 256Gb, and 512Gb) For ProRes 422 LT and Proxy, and BRAW 12:1, especially with very low resolutions like 1080p or 2K. I don't buy these cards anymore but I have had a number of them from other cameras I no longer used or have sold.

I'm happy with this options and will live with it until it's time to chuck the camera and go with the next one.

As to the issue of the T5 and T7, everyone is speculating what the future holds. One thing we all should have learned by now that BMD will not bother with any response to media's going EOL or not compatible with their cameras. So if this kind of response doesn't suit you, DO NOT BUY A BlackMagic camera - Period.
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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 19, 2020 8:07 am

From my experience using almost exclusively SSD on the BMPCC 4k I would say there is a lot of paranoia about SSDs.

I have used drives not the approved list with no problems. I read forums to find out which ones don't work and avoid them. I have put SSD and NVme in enclosures and they work fine. The T5 is smaller and easier to use because of that but cheaper drives can do fine.

I am grateful to people posting warnings of products that don't work.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 19, 2020 8:52 am

If there is one manufacturer of external SSDs specifically made AND maintained for several years for cameras, then it is Angelbird. Remember that they even made their latest SD cards compatible again for the old Pocket and VideoAssists after I asked them if they could have a look into this.
Surely Samsung wouldn't have cared about this. Nor Sandisk.

So I cannot understand the whining about the T5/T7 because there are plenty of options, like from Wise, G-Technology, OWC, Glyph or Angelbird.

I even paid only 50 Euros for Sandisk Extreme Pro 256 GB SD cards (95MB/s) which can handle ProRes 1080p50 and some of the more compressed 24/25p BRAWs.

The Transcend CFX650 256GB is one of the cheapest CFast2.0 cards which does work nicely with the PCC4k.

BTW the Angelbird 256GB cards can now be bought for 83c/GB as single, and for 76c/GB as a dual pack.
And the Angelbird 512GB cards are now as a summer special for 54c/GB per single card.

Have a look here:
https://www.videodata.de/shop/de/CFast
Robert Niessner
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John Brawley

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostSun Jul 19, 2020 3:04 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:If there is one manufacturer of external SSDs specifically made AND maintained for several years for cameras, then it is Angelbird. Remember that they even made their latest SD cards compatible again for the old Pocket and VideoAssists after I asked them if they could have a look into this.
Surely Samsung wouldn't have cared about this. Nor Sandisk.

So I cannot understand the whining about the T5/T7 because there are plenty of options, like from Wise, G-Technology, OWC, Glyph or Angelbird.

I even paid only 50 Euros for Sandisk Extreme Pro 256 GB SD cards (95MB/s) which can handle ProRes 1080p50 and some of the more compressed 24/25p BRAWs.

The Transcend CFX650 256GB is one of the cheapest CFast2.0 cards which does work nicely with the PCC4k.

BTW the Angelbird 256GB cards can now be bought for 83c/GB as single, and for 76c/GB as a dual pack.
And the Angelbird 512GB cards are now as a summer special for 54c/GB per single card.

Have a look here:
https://www.videodata.de/shop/de/CFast


I’ll add my support here behind Robert.

They’re a great company and also happen to make the fastest 256Gb CFAST card. I know this because I tested a bunch with the 12K camera.

They are the ones we should be supporting because they DO tailor their products to our specific needs.

JB
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lost_soul

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostMon Jul 20, 2020 12:05 am

The T7 even after the cache has filled will still support a minimum of 500MB/s which is enough to handle the 6K @ Q0.

There are two possible issues I can think of with the T7. One is the encryption that it uses is getting in the way and the other is that the driver in the PCC may not support it. If it is a driver issue it could possibly be handled in a future firmware upgrade. BMD wouldn't be the ones to write that driver though, it would be who ever is supplying the chipset they use. If they don't do updates then the problem is likely out of BMDs hands. If they are still providing updates it may get rolled into a future firmware update after BMD adequately tests it..

If it is an issue with the new encryption on th T7 there may be nothing that BMD can do. In any case you can buy enclosures that will work with the the BMPCC in both SATA and NVMe format and work that way if you have to. Recording videos is as much about over coming problems as it is about art. This is just another example.
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UserOS

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Re: T7 SSD not working with BMPCCs

PostWed Jul 29, 2020 11:27 pm

1. T5 Samsung is 2 times cheaper than SSD analogues. Don't talk nonsense about other solutions! T5 is 5 times or more cheaper than memory cards of the same capacity.

2. There is no SSD for BMPCC 6K 3: 1 BRAW recording. The T7 was supposed to be that at the lowest price. Open the recommendation table on the website. There is a recommendation only for BRAW 5: 1.

I bought the recommended Delkin Devices 1TB Juggler USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C Cinema SSD. He writes every other time and stops often. More expensive than the T5, but also faster. but there is no stability.

Hopefully when the T7 comes out without a fingerprint. The firmware will fix the problem and it will work with the BMPCC 6K camera.

At the moment I am using a third-party solution. I bought myself an external NVME case on a JMS583 chip with firmware 2.0.6, newer firmware does not work with the camera. Installed there Samsung 970 Pro with thermal pads. Using a Tilta cable + Tilta mount for Wise SSD. Writes perfectly non-stop.
Thank in advance.
Oleg

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