Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

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jma6610

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Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 1:48 am

I'm looking into purchasing an audio mixer for use with my ATEM mini pro. I have XLR mics, some of which require 48v phantom and also some wireless mics that output into either XLR or 3.5. I only need a mixer that can handle up to 4 mics at a time. I understand that the Mini Pro requires an unbalanced input around +4db. I don't need super-high-end, but I also want something with some quality that will be reliable. This will only be for voice discussions, not high quality music. Can anyone give me a recommendation that won't be too expensive (hoping to spend $200 to $500 or so).

Thanks in advance.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 3:13 am

Professional XLR input levels are +4dB, typically more consumer oriented 3.5mm unbalanced inputs expect a nominal input level of about -10dB, although this post suggests actually -15dB is more appropriate for the ATEM Mini for line level inputs:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=111754&p=615921#p615921

If you are just looking for a basic analog audio mixer, there are a lot of relatively affordable options. You might look at something like the Yamaha MG10XU or Mackie 802VLZ4 or I believe Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, Behringer and others make similar mixers in the $200-300 range.

If you want a digital mixer, these tend to be more expensive. I think Zoom, Behringer, and PreSonus have a few models with lower input counts in the $400-$500 range. If you are looking for something more portable, you could also look at the Zoom F4 or F6, or the Sound Devices MixPre line, although these might be a bit beyond your budget.
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RichardJolly

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 10:36 am

I can recommend small Behringer analogue audio mixers as particularly good value with sensible features. I have several of them to feed into ATEM vision mixers, either with 1/4" +4dB outputs or phono/RCA -10dB outputs. I have a question: does the ATEM Mini include audio delay? If not, and you are using cameras with HDMI outputs, you might find this useful.

http://www.cypeurope.com/store/store/ap ... -Corrector

I usually add 150ms to analogue audio going into the vision mixer.
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jamedia

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 11:26 am

jma6610 wrote:I'm looking into purchasing an audio mixer for use with my ATEM mini pro. I have XLR mics, some of which require 48v phantom and also some wireless mics that output into either XLR or 3.5. I only need a mixer that can handle up to 4 mics at a time. I understand that the Mini Pro requires an unbalanced input around +4db. I don't need super-high-end, but I also want something with some quality that will be reliable. This will only be for voice discussions, not high quality music. Can anyone give me a recommendation that won't be too expensive (hoping to spend $200 to $500 or so).

Thanks in advance.


A left field suggestion.... the RODE Podcaster Pro https://www.rode.com/rodecasterpro 4 input mixer + jingles/music pads etc ability to have a phone input. It is aimed at podcasters and
you said for "voice discussions"

Zoom do the L8 whilst sort of aimed at the same market is more of a traditional mixer.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_livetrak_l_8.htm I have the Zoom L12 and it s very good but the Rode may be more the sort of thing you are looking at.
JAmedia, Birmingham UK
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goran diffner

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 4:47 pm

#
Last edited by goran diffner on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jma6610

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 8:45 pm

jamedia wrote:
jma6610 wrote:I'm looking into purchasing an audio mixer for use with my ATEM mini pro. I have XLR mics, some of which require 48v phantom and also some wireless mics that output into either XLR or 3.5. I only need a mixer that can handle up to 4 mics at a time. I understand that the Mini Pro requires an unbalanced input around +4db. I don't need super-high-end, but I also want something with some quality that will be reliable. This will only be for voice discussions, not high quality music. Can anyone give me a recommendation that won't be too expensive (hoping to spend $200 to $500 or so).

Thanks in advance.


A left field suggestion.... the RODE Podcaster Pro https://www.rode.com/rodecasterpro 4 input mixer + jingles/music pads etc ability to have a phone input. It is aimed at podcasters and
you said for "voice discussions"

Zoom do the L8 whilst sort of aimed at the same market is more of a traditional mixer.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_livetrak_l_8.htm I have the Zoom L12 and it s very good but the Rode may be more the sort of thing you are looking at.


The Rode looks ideal - unsure if I wanted to spend that much - but possible if it does what I need. I see it can provide phantom power for my condensor. I'm still unsure I fully understand the balanced/unbalanced issue for the ATEM mini pro. Will the RODE output the unbalanced output I understand is necessary for the ATEM? Do I understand correctly that I would simply use the functions on the RODE mixer instead of ATEM's audio features (equalizer, compressor, ect) and then just have a single audio input in the ATEM from the external mixer?
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 10:37 pm

The audio outputs on the RODE Podcaster Pro use 1/4" balanced TRS connectors, but you can pretty easily find balanced to unbalanced cables designed for inputting to a 3.5mm microphone jack. Just keep in mind that you may need to lower the audio output level from the mixer, since balanced audio outputs are often run at a higher nominal level than unbalanced. Some balanced to unbalanced adapters will even include built-in attenuators for this purpose.

In terms of the audio mixer features of the ATEM vs. a dedicated mixer, you can decide which features you want to use where. If you have multiple microphone inputs that you need different settings for, then you will need to adjust these on a dedicated audio mixer, since that will be where your microphones are connected.

Since the ATEM only has two analog audio inputs, you can only send it a stereo or mono mix from your main mixer. At that point if you wanted to apply some compression settings to the overall audio mix via the ATEM mixer settings, you certainly could, but you wouldn't be able to affect individual audio inputs at that stage, just the overall mix.
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jma6610

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostTue Jul 21, 2020 11:14 pm

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:The audio outputs on the RODE Podcaster Pro use 1/4" balanced TRS connectors, but you can pretty easily find balanced to unbalanced cables designed for inputting to a 3.5mm microphone jack. Just keep in mind that you may need to lower the audio output level from the mixer, since balanced audio outputs are often run at a higher nominal level than unbalanced. Some balanced to unbalanced adapters will even include built-in attenuators for this purpose.

In terms of the audio mixer features of the ATEM vs. a dedicated mixer, you can decide which features you want to use where. If you have multiple microphone inputs that you need different settings for, then you will need to adjust these on a dedicated audio mixer, since that will be where your microphones are connected.

Since the ATEM only has two analog audio inputs, you can only send it a stereo or mono mix from your main mixer. At that point if you wanted to apply some compression settings to the overall audio mix via the ATEM mixer settings, you certainly could, but you wouldn't be able to affect individual audio inputs at that stage, just the overall mix.


So if I wanted to use something like this Rode mixer, I would want to place something like the ART Pro Audio CleanBox Pro Dual Channel Level Converter between the two to convert the balanced output from the Rode to unbalanced that the ATEM requires? ...or get some cables that can do similar?

Thanks in advance for the details and non-technical explanations you've been providing. This is very helpful for someone like me who is just learning.
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jamedia

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 9:29 am

jma6610 wrote:So if I wanted to use something like this Rode mixer, I would want to place something like the ART Pro Audio CleanBox Pro Dual Channel Level Converter between the two to convert the balanced output from the Rode to unbalanced that the ATEM requires? ...or get some cables that can do similar?


You should be able to get balanced to unbalanced cables. However......

Your HDMI video inputs will be delayed compared to your audio.
The solution is to send the audio from the mixer to the main camera audio in and then the audio and video wil be in sync when it hits the ATEM Mini.
JAmedia, Birmingham UK
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jma6610

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 10:02 am

jamedia wrote:
jma6610 wrote:So if I wanted to use something like this Rode mixer, I would want to place something like the ART Pro Audio CleanBox Pro Dual Channel Level Converter between the two to convert the balanced output from the Rode to unbalanced that the ATEM requires? ...or get some cables that can do similar?


You should be able to get balanced to unbalanced cables. However......

Your HDMI video inputs will be delayed compared to your audio.
The solution is to send the audio from the mixer to the main camera audio in and then the audio and video wil be in sync when it hits the ATEM Mini.


Thanks for the reminder. The newest firmware for the Mini Pro, however, has an adjustment for the video/audio delay.
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jamedia

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 10:41 am

jma6610 wrote:Thanks for the reminder. The newest firmware for the Mini Pro, however, has an adjustment for the video/audio delay.


It does indeed but running the audio through the camera means it is one less thing to think about and hand tune. Then again my cameras all have two XLR inputs.

I suggested the Roadcaster Pro because it sounded like you were doing "podcasts with video" and it is specifically designed for podcasts or being a small talk radio studio. Therefore it has features you are more likely to need in an easy to use way unlike the more traditional mixers.
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jma6610

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 11:32 am

jamedia wrote:
jma6610 wrote:Thanks for the reminder. The newest firmware for the Mini Pro, however, has an adjustment for the video/audio delay.


It does indeed but running the audio through the camera means it is one less thing to think about and hand tune. Then again my cameras all have two XLR inputs.

I suggested the Roadcaster Pro because it sounded like you were doing "podcasts with video" and it is specifically designed for podcasts or being a small talk radio studio. Therefore it has features you are more likely to need in an easy to use way unlike the more traditional mixers.


After looking at the features, I agree with you. It seems like exactly what I need. ...and I like buying Australian since I'm now an Aussie. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll likely take it.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 4:10 pm

I think this might be the last question. If I have a mixer with (2) 1/4" jack outputs (left and right), would I want to use a single TS mono to 3.5mm cable from one of those outputs to one of the mini pro's inputs or a special cable that has two TS mono plugs (1 left, 1 right) and feeds into a single 3.5 plug into one of the mini pro's inputs?
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 4:23 pm

jma6610 wrote:I think this might be the last question. If I have a mixer with (2) 1/4" jack outputs (left and right), would I want to use a single TS mono to 3.5mm cable from one of those outputs to one of the mini pro's inputs or a special cable that has two TS mono plugs (1 left, 1 right) and feeds into a single 3.5 plug into one of the mini pro's inputs?


Work on Mono. Most mixers will give you a mono out even if there are a pair of jacks. So use that one to the ATEM.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 6:50 pm

I use a Sound Devices MixPre D, which gives me both a unbalanced Mic and unbalanced Line outs to feed the ATEM Mini Pro audio input and and get a stereo or two Chanel feed to the switcher.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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jamedia

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 7:14 pm

Denny Smith wrote:I use a Sound Devices MixPre D, which gives me both a unbalanced Mic and unbalanced Line outs to feed the ATEM Mini Pro audio input and and get a stereo or two Chanel feed to the switcher.
Cheers

I don't think that is that the OP is looking for and it is now obsolete anyway. no one appears to stock it.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 9:37 pm

jamedia wrote:
jma6610 wrote:I think this might be the last question. If I have a mixer with (2) 1/4" jack outputs (left and right), would I want to use a single TS mono to 3.5mm cable from one of those outputs to one of the mini pro's inputs or a special cable that has two TS mono plugs (1 left, 1 right) and feeds into a single 3.5 plug into one of the mini pro's inputs?


Work on Mono. Most mixers will give you a mono out even if there are a pair of jacks. So use that one to the ATEM.


But it appears that the RodeCaster has only a L/R pair of 6.3mm outputs. So what should be done with this?
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostWed Jul 22, 2020 9:52 pm

If you are doing a mono audio mix, with all microphone inputs panned to the center, then the left and right channel output signals will be identical, so you can pick which one of them you want to use.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 8:15 pm

Using an XLR Female to 3.5mm Stereo Microphone cables (knowing this is mono), I found that I could use a pair of Hosa adjustable XLR cable pads set at -20 dB for a Yamaha LS9 mixer. I pan the Mini Pro mic channels to extreme Left and Right and it sounds great without any processing.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostThu Jul 23, 2020 10:25 pm

Stuart McRae wrote:Using an XLR Female to 3.5mm Stereo Microphone cables (knowing this is mono), I found that I could use a pair of Hosa adjustable XLR cable pads set at -20 dB for a Yamaha LS9 mixer. I pan the Mini Pro mic channels to extreme Left and Right and it sounds great without any processing.


Help me out a bit more with this since I'm just learning. I'm seeing XLR attenuators that can reduce balanced line-level as you've mentioned, but are you putting that between the mic(s) and the mixer or between the mixer and ATEM? If I have a mixer with a 1/4" TS or TRS output wouldn't I need something that reduced the level here - between the mixer and ATEM that would handle a 1/4" jack and convert to 3.5mm?
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 2:24 pm

jma6610 wrote:
jamedia wrote:
jma6610 wrote:I think this might be the last question. If I have a mixer with (2) 1/4" jack outputs (left and right), would I want to use a single TS mono to 3.5mm cable from one of those outputs to one of the mini pro's inputs or a special cable that has two TS mono plugs (1 left, 1 right) and feeds into a single 3.5 plug into one of the mini pro's inputs?


Work on Mono. Most mixers will give you a mono out even if there are a pair of jacks. So use that one to the ATEM.


But it appears that the RodeCaster has only a L/R pair of 6.3mm outputs. So what should be done with this?


Get yourself a Hosa CMP153 cable, that is a pair of TS 6.3mm connectors (1 for left, 1 for right) that go to a 3.5mm TRS connector (tip pos left, ring pos right, sleeve common neg/ground). This will give you stereo output from your RodeCaster to stereo input on just 1 of your Mic/Line inputs on the ATEM Mini. Make sure you change the input level on the ATEM software to Line, and turn down your gain on the ATEM channel to something like -6dB for a start, then slowly turn up your master on the RodeCaster so you don't clip the input of the ATEM.

https://factorysound.com/products/cmp153

This will also allow you to put a backup room Mic into the second audio input should anything happen to the RodeCaster.
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 3:41 pm

jma6610 wrote:
Stuart McRae wrote:Using an XLR Female to 3.5mm Stereo Microphone cables (knowing this is mono), I found that I could use a pair of Hosa adjustable XLR cable pads set at -20 dB for a Yamaha LS9 mixer. I pan the Mini Pro mic channels to extreme Left and Right and it sounds great without any processing.


Help me out a bit more with this since I'm just learning. I'm seeing XLR attenuators that can reduce balanced line-level as you've mentioned, but are you putting that between the mic(s) and the mixer or between the mixer and ATEM? If I have a mixer with a 1/4" TS or TRS output wouldn't I need something that reduced the level here - between the mixer and ATEM that would handle a 1/4" jack and convert to 3.5mm?


Yes you do. What I do in that case is use a 1/2" TRS to XLR cable to connect the inline attenuator before the XLR to 3.5mm (mic) connector.

I have since learned that in the ATEM Software Control panel in the bottom left corner, there is a settings "Gear" icon that open Settings. Under Audio, drill down to the General tab and you can select Line for the Mic 1 and 3 inputs and probably avoid needing an inline -20 dB pad. We are all learning all the time....
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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 10:00 pm

Stuart McRae wrote:
jma6610 wrote:
Stuart McRae wrote:Using an XLR Female to 3.5mm Stereo Microphone cables (knowing this is mono), I found that I could use a pair of Hosa adjustable XLR cable pads set at -20 dB for a Yamaha LS9 mixer. I pan the Mini Pro mic channels to extreme Left and Right and it sounds great without any processing.


Help me out a bit more with this since I'm just learning. I'm seeing XLR attenuators that can reduce balanced line-level as you've mentioned, but are you putting that between the mic(s) and the mixer or between the mixer and ATEM? If I have a mixer with a 1/4" TS or TRS output wouldn't I need something that reduced the level here - between the mixer and ATEM that would handle a 1/4" jack and convert to 3.5mm?


Yes you do. What I do in that case is use a 1/2" TRS to XLR cable to connect the inline attenuator before the XLR to 3.5mm (mic) connector.

I have since learned that in the ATEM Software Control panel in the bottom left corner, there is a settings "Gear" icon that open Settings. Under Audio, drill down to the General tab and you can select Line for the Mic 1 and 3 inputs and probably avoid needing an inline -20 dB pad. We are all learning all the time....


Yup. that was what I was wondering - whether you realised that you could set line versus mic level input in the ATEM. I only saw that in someone else's post. So you shouldn't need the attenuators if you switch to line level.

...would you believe that I went ahead and bought a Rodecaster and it ended up defective? ...so now I have to return on Monday to get a replacement unit to try all of this.
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jma6610

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Re: Audio Mixer recommendations for use with Mini Pro

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 9:42 pm

Get yourself a Hosa CMP153 cable, that is a pair of TS 6.3mm connectors (1 for left, 1 for right) that go to a 3.5mm TRS connector (tip pos left, ring pos right, sleeve common neg/ground). This will give you stereo output from your RodeCaster to stereo input on just 1 of your Mic/Line inputs on the ATEM Mini. Make sure you change the input level on the ATEM software to Line, and turn down your gain on the ATEM channel to something like -6dB for a start, then slowly turn up your master on the RodeCaster so you don't clip the input of the ATEM.

https://factorysound.com/products/cmp153

This will also allow you to put a backup room Mic into the second audio input should anything happen to the RodeCaster.


This seems to be the best answer. I decided to spring for the Rode and it's working great with the Mini Pro. There seems to be some confusion about some about the difference between line and mic input and balanced versus unbalanced input. As I understand it now, the ATEM can handle both line and mic, but this setting is somewhat hard to find in the software - and this is the real issue, not whether the input is balanced or not. The 2 TS connectors into one 3.5 TRS look to be the best type of input into the Mini Pro - I like the suggestion of a back up mic into the 2nd ATEM input. The only small issue is that there is occasionally some type of conflict between the Rode software and the ATEM software on my W10 machine (but it's not consistent). When I turn off the direct USB mic input into the computer from the Rode and permit the audio to only come through the ATEM, all works well. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

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