ATEM mini and recording ProRes on the BMPCC4K

Hi just found out that you can not record proRes (HD proxi or whetever) on the BM Pocket 4k while connected to the ATEM mini.

You can only record raw. Changing RAW recording setting will result in a change in the recorded area. Setting the 4K to HD will crop the image, as for Anamorphic etc.

So the only option is to set the camera to 4K 16-9 area for recording 16-9 1080 via the ATEM mini. Now if you want to record a backup file on the camera you can only record RAW.

Would that be a bug, or a feature request.

PS I always record a backup on camera just in case, or to keep both audio tracks etc. So being able to record Prores proxy HD (as would be a normal selection) would be a very good and normal thing. Now this option is greyed out.

This is by design, only BRaw is available for in camera recording. However you can record the HD 1080p output from the HDMI on the Mini Pro, if you do not need multiview display, but use the output for program. See bottom of pg 59 in the Pocket Camera Manual March 2020.

You can also convert the BRaw into ProRes in Resolve to get ProRes files. Compressed BRaw setting is going to be a smaller file than ProRes anyway, and you still have the audio embedded also.
Cheers

Ha Denny,

by design? I think it's a flaw: if i conect to BM video assist i can still rec on prores in camera or whatever I choose. only when I connect to the ATEM mini directly the prores option is greyed out.

Maybe it is because of the control option, but i think there should be a fix. Moreover: you can onlu output HD to the atem mini - so why not rec prores HD in camera (AND: it is because of file sizes as a backup, and mainly for audio backup of the two tracks I record.)

Hope they will add this functionality!
Soon,
Stefan

This limitation is indeed very constraining for me.

Especially the crop factor when using the BRAW, while in PRORES this is not the case.


I bought several blackmagic products for multi-cam (ATEM Mini pro, BMPCC, recorder Assist 12G) I will resell the set if this option remains. too restrictive.

I asked BMD about this, and they said it was intentional, you can only record in BRaw when connected to the ATEM Mini/Pro switchers. HDMI output is 1080p regardless of recording resolution. As a result to need to use UHD 16:9 setting to get full sensor readout for BRaw. You still get the audio, etc and all metadata, and can use Reolve to process the BRaw file back to 1808p HD, so it still works as a very nice backup file you can do more with.
Cheers

Is it true the BMPCC4K HDMI output only does 1080p and not 4k?
Is this a hardware limitation or a marketing decision because I surely like to HDMI to a 4k monitor?

Yes the BMPCC4K can only output 1080P. This is a hardware limitation from what I can tell.

thank you for your reply.

I don't understand this logic of bmd and the crop factor of BRAW is really a major drawback.

Offer on one side the possibility of controlling the camera (a reason for my purchase) and on the other side forced the use of a recording codec which changes the focal length according to the quality?

Working in muti camera of different brand become complicated while that is the objective of the ATEM mini pro (unless I use only bmpcc cams).

I am really disappointed by this logic.


PS;
My black magic recorder assist 12 G is not recognized in HDMI output to make a synchronized record with the usb-c MP4

Yes, the HDMI out was designed for monitoring/streaming, which HD is more supported by monitors. It was not designed for recording UHD or 4K, as the camera can do this internally or via its USB to SSD.
Cheers

Hi Denny,
The 'design' argument of BM regarding BRAW recording when connected to the atem mini simply does not hold. What is the advantage when you can only work in HD via the mini to limit the users choise?

I will do a test today using my 30m HDMI cable. This is a hdmi to glass fiber one-way cable. So the atem mini will not recognise the hdmi input as a BMPCC (there is no return) and thus prores recording will be enabled.

The only functionality I drop is the control via ATEM. I will have to do that on the cameras.

The problem recording BRAW is the the oversized file it generated, even at lowest spec, you still have to record 4K (when mixing HD) because the output is cropped when recording BRAW HD. And then if I want to use a small part - i have to go the DaVinci route...

I think it's a FLAW and expect an update on camera and or ATEM-minis.

PS just did an 8 hour recording of an online event: per camera 1 TB of BRAW backup....

stefan

[Gary Adams]

You can consider using an inexpensive HDMI Splitter and use the second output to the Mini Pro. That will not pass back control signals and allow full control of the camera while passing video.

Regards, Gary

+1

It would be very helpful to record ProRes on the BMPCC6K / 4K when working with ATEM Mini.

Understood, for what ever reason, BMD has ProRes locked out. It could be the camera’s processor lack the horsepower to do both, any thoughts on this Gary?
Cheers

I really think that would be amazing if BMD just give us the option inside the atem software to choose if we want to control the cameras (and loose prores recording on cameras) or disable it... so we can record in proress... that would be the wonderful world lol...cmonnn BMD, you can do this

Needed to record 1080p in camera with no crop and stream out. Apparently not possible with the current firmware but I found a workaround that has worked at least this time. Just set your settings, roll the camera, plug the hdmi in, then cut the camera. HDMI signal is coming in as 1080p, with no sensor crop. Limiting to BRAW and forcing 1080p to be sensor cropped are nonsensical limitations.

No news on this?

I can´t understand why can´t us choose to turn on and off the camera control via ATEM. Sometimes I don´t want to control cameras, I just want to record in prores inside cameras.

Please BM ... consider doing this in a future update, it would be amazing!

We can use splitters to override camera controls but, it more cables, more AC, more everything hehe

As an alternative to an HDMI splitter you can also use an inline HDMI CEC blocking adapter as discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156074

These are passive adapters that work by blocking the pins on the HDMI cable that are used for CEC communication (which is what is used to send the camera control signals). The adapters go by a few different names such as HDMI CEC-less adapter or CEC killer, but they are fairly inexpensive and don't require a power source.

As to the larger point though, I tend to agree that there should be a way to turn off the camera control signals through the switcher. Especially since there are already settings in the ATEM software as to the type of camera connected to each video input, if the camera type is set to "None" for a particular input, the switcher really shouldn't be sending any camera control signals out of that port (but that doesn't seem to be the case currently).

I agree this is confusing. Took me quite a while to understand what is going on. I finally found the solution.

When filming live with the bmpcc 6k or 6k pro the HDMI will not output at 1920x1080 at 50/60 fps. So if you setup your Atem to run the stream at those settings it will disable them in the camera menu. Only supported options will be shown.

Before plugging the camera in, access the ATEM Software Control 1st and click the gear at the bottom left of the screen. Change the settings to be 30fps or lower and click save. Now your stream is set at that resolution, so plug the camera in and you will now have the option to select 6k which will be 16x9 uncropped.

This was a lot of trial and error so wanted to share what I found.