Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

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CaptainHook

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Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 4:49 am

Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3 are now live on our website. Linux support is added as well as various improvements/fixes including:

• GPU memory reduction for 12K files (~1/3 reduction - especially significant for Windows users)
• Gamut compression toggle added that can be applied to any gamut/colour science gen
• ARRI Wide Gamut and LogC decode options added for those used to using those spaces in their workflows.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/
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timbutt2

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 7:06 am

This is pretty exciting and interesting updates in Resolve. I asked a question on your Facebook post in the UMP user group. So I'll hold for an answer to that question there.

But I'm also curious to play with these updates. I have some post production footage to work and play with to test this out.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 12:07 pm

Is this of any consequence to Pocket users, not currently right? Only 12k users? To be honest I am slightly confused about the implications of BRAW 2.0.
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CaptainHook

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 1:04 pm

Pocket users shooting Blackmagic RAW can make use of the decode options in the RAW tab like Gen 5 etc, same as the 12K.
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RealSting

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Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 1:31 pm

CaptainHook wrote:Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3 are now live on our website. Linux support is added as well as various improvements/fixes including:

• GPU memory reduction for 12K files (~1/3 reduction - especially significant for Windows users)
• Gamut compression toggle added that can be applied to any gamut/colour science gen
• ARRI Wide Gamut and LogC decode options added for those used to using those spaces in their workflows.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/
Overall, I really appreciate Blackmagics commitment to their updates. This is one of the reasons they have my loyalty.

With regards to types of updates, this is my thinking..

(Meant in a very calm way.. I’m not ranting!)

The people that have bought into the pocket cameras are more likely to be on lower budgets… Lower budgets are likely to mean less powerful and cheaper editing workstations… Cheaper and less powerful editing workstations would benefit greatly from less processing of BRAW - speeding up workflow and causing less issues. Making us feel we don’t have to drop another £10k we can’t afford on another workstation! ;-)

Thank you.


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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 1:45 pm

CaptainHook wrote:Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3 are now live on our website. Linux support is added as well as various improvements/fixes including:

• GPU memory reduction for 12K files (~1/3 reduction - especially significant for Windows users)
• Gamut compression toggle added that can be applied to any gamut/colour science gen
• ARRI Wide Gamut and LogC decode options added for those used to using those spaces in their workflows.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/


Why doesn't this update show up when I start dr? nor when I search for updates in the menu?

Ricardo Marty
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 2:12 pm

ricardo marty wrote:Why doesn't this update show up when I start dr? nor when I search for updates in the menu?
Ricardo Marty


Most likely because it's still Beta.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 2:23 pm

A great update although I'll wait until the release lines merge before updating.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 3:52 pm

Hook gave some really cool answers on Facebook to my questions and a few other people I figured were worth sharing here:

"Gamut compression was enabled by default "in the background" for Gen 5 and most gamuts (aside from AP0 and XYZ). Its what helped with monochromatic light sources like taillights/LEDs/etc that would clip the gamut. Now it's selectable but can be used for Gen 4 and any gamut.
Its no secret people like using our cameras alongside the Alexa variants, adding their colour space options just makes it even easier to fit into those workflows, or existing workflows built around those colour spaces even if Alexa is not used."

And regarding using Color Space Transform over the new RAW decode to specific color space option:
"The CST is also only accurate for the native ISO of any particular camera, so if you shoot/decode with a different ISO it’s not accurate. Not the case with the raw tab."

Wish we had this a few months back when I paired a G2 with an Alexa Mini and we had to use CST. Doing it in the RAW tab looks like the best way to do it now. So it's really awesome this was made possible for future shoots.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 4:11 pm

Why no Gen 5 for DNG?
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 4:31 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Why no Gen 5 for DNG?

DNG is obsolete man. This all Blackmagic RAW updates and will all be BRAW moving forward.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 5:21 pm

RealSting wrote:The people that have bought into the pocket cameras are more likely to be on lower budgets… Lower budgets are likely to mean less powerful and cheaper editing workstations… Cheaper and less powerful editing workstations would benefit greatly from less processing of BRAW - speeding up workflow and causing less issues. Making us feel we don’t have to drop another £10k we can’t afford on another workstation! ;-)


The most important part is your GPU. I just bought a used GTX TITAN X 12 GByte for € 300.-
With that Resolve flies through 4k BRAW.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 7:05 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
Dmitry Shijan wrote:Why no Gen 5 for DNG?

DNG is obsolete man. This all Blackmagic RAW updates and will all be BRAW moving forward.

BMMCC is still on sale and so DNG should be supported. Also DNG support is always useful to process photos from still cameras. A lot of photographers use Resolve.
It is the main concept of RAW - future generations of software will be able to debayer and process same RAW sources with better quality and with better color. So we have future generation of software now and for some unknown reason it can not process DNG files natively with new color science.
(P.S. I didn't test Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 yet)
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 8:10 pm

timbutt2 wrote: DNG is obsolete man..

I believe DNG is far from Obsolete. The US Library of Congress and the British Library (and therefor all major museums in the US and UK) use DNG for image archiving. So you can expect this to be the case for a LOT of other large national museums and libraries around the world.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostFri Oct 09, 2020 10:25 pm

jamedia wrote:
timbutt2 wrote: DNG is obsolete man..

I believe DNG is far from Obsolete. The US Library of Congress and the British Library (and therefor all major museums in the US and UK) use DNG for image archiving. So you can expect this to be the case for a LOT of other large national museums and libraries around the world.

Okay, let me reclassify: CinemaDNG is obsolete in Blackmagic Cameras. They're moving forward with Blackmagic RAW for everything. And, Resolve will continue to support CDNG, but no future Blackmagic cameras are going to capture in that format so they don't need to update the camera science of past color shot in CDNG.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 1:39 am

jamedia wrote:
timbutt2 wrote: DNG is obsolete man..

I believe DNG is far from Obsolete. The US Library of Congress and the British Library (and therefor all major museums in the US and UK) use DNG for image archiving. So you can expect this to be the case for a LOT of other large national museums and libraries around the world.


But not for moving images.

And not for acquisition.

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jamedia

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 8:38 am

timbutt2 wrote:
jamedia wrote:
timbutt2 wrote: DNG is obsolete man..

I believe DNG is far from Obsolete. The US Library of Congress and the British Library (and therefor all major museums in the US and UK) use DNG for image archiving. So you can expect this to be the case for a LOT of other large national museums and libraries around the world.

Okay, let me reclassify: CinemaDNG is obsolete in Blackmagic Cameras. They're moving forward with Blackmagic RAW for everything. And, Resolve will continue to support CDNG, but no future Blackmagic cameras are going to capture in that format so they don't need to update the camera science of past color shot in CDNG.


Fair enough.
The cameras that do use CDNG will be around for a LONG time to come, even if not used by front line professionals so it is good that BMD will be supporting it as an obsolete system. It doesn't need to be developed further.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 11:37 am

And for moving images we have EXR as an archival format.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 7:51 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:The most important part is your GPU. I just bought a used GTX TITAN X 12 GByte for € 300.-
With that Resolve flies through 4k BRAW.

So, why did you spent so much money on that old GPU? I bought the Titan X 12GB in 2016 and exchanged it 2019 with a RTX 2060 Super. Not only significant lower power consumption and quieter, it was also a speed boost of about 25% in 4K editing in DaVinci Resolve. 4 GB more VRAM on paper doesn't give you more advantage, because the other specs of the RTX are much better.

For example:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... ance-1328/

The Titan X 12GB is about 50% speed of the Titan RTX 24GB

and:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... 0-XT-1563/

The RTX 2060 Super is about 75% speed of the Titan RTX 24GB

Exactly my own experiences and you'll get a used RTX 2060 Super (or higher RTX card) for less than 300 €.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 8:30 pm

Uli Plank wrote:And for moving images we have EXR as an archival format.


There’s nothing special about DNG.

It’s really just a version of TIFF.

cDNG is DNG with TC, Audio and some meta data.

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Robert Niessner

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSat Oct 10, 2020 8:53 pm

vgs2003 wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:The most important part is your GPU. I just bought a used GTX TITAN X 12 GByte for € 300.-
With that Resolve flies through 4k BRAW.

So, why did you spent so much money on that old GPU? I bought the Titan X 12GB in 2016 and exchanged it 2019 with a RTX 2060 Super. Not only significant lower power consumption and quieter, it was also a speed boost of about 25% in 4K editing in DaVinci Resolve. 4 GB more VRAM on paper doesn't give you more advantage, because the other specs of the RTX are much better.

For example:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... ance-1328/

The Titan X 12GB is about 50% speed of the Titan RTX 24GB

and:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... 0-XT-1563/

The RTX 2060 Super is about 75% speed of the Titan RTX 24GB

Exactly my own experiences and you'll get a used RTX 2060 Super (or higher RTX card) for less than 300 €.


Because I do have some older software in use, which does not work well with the latest NVIDIA generations (1080 or later). The GTX Titan X is the last GPU gen working with what I need and has 12GB, while 8Gb wouldn't cut it for my purposes.
BTW, it is super quiet even under full load.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 2:30 am

Seems that new Gamut Compression option in RAW tab really fix all problems with color clipping in Gen 4 as well as in Gen 5. Keep it up BMD!
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 3:04 am

I'm glad that 16.3 is progressing but at this junction, I'll have to wait a bit as I'm still struggling with some issues from updating to 16.2.7. I take there won't be a 16.2.8 anymore so hopefully 16.3 will come out less buggy. I had to go back to 16.2.6 a few times, each time I thought I could move on and stay on 16.2.7. BTW, this is the Studio version I'm using.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 5:33 am

Hello! All versions of Davinci Resolve persist with the same problem. When launching a program with a non-English keyboard layout, hotkeys stop working. Thx!
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 7:01 am

Ellory Yu wrote:I'm glad that 16.3 is progressing but at this junction, I'll have to wait a bit as I'm still struggling with some issues from updating to 16.2.7. I take there won't be a 16.2.8 anymore so hopefully 16.3 will come out less buggy. I had to go back to 16.2.6 a few times, each time I thought I could move on and stay on 16.2.7. BTW, this is the Studio version I'm using.


Yep, I’ve never had studio quit before .. often when I made changes to nodes on the colour page. Never had this before. 16.2.7 definitely has stability issues. I’m also using the more stable platform: A Mac!
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 7:57 am

If you are having Resolve issues please report them to the Resolve team via the Resolve forum or via support (if you haven't already).
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 3:17 pm

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Seems that new Gamut Compression option in RAW tab really fix all problems with color clipping in Gen 4 as well as in Gen 5. Keep it up BMD!


Can you explain in more detail what that new RAW setting does?
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostMon Oct 12, 2020 3:34 pm

It just makes Gen4 behave same as Gen5 and protects extreme saturated colors from clipping when you do color and gamma transformations inside RAW tab.

In beta 2 and earlier it looked like this:
Image
Image

In beta3 Gen4 looks same smooth as Gen5 when you enable Gamut Compression checkbox in RAW settings. This is only for BRAW yet. DNG don't have this option.
Image
Image
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 am

In my country it is said that "an image is worth a thousand words" and you have explained it perfectly with words and images.

Now I understand that by checking that setting we can avoid clipping also in Gen4
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 10:46 am

But wasn't the gamut compression the ONLY difference between Generation 4 and 5? So unchecking that just means you're on Generation 4 again?
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 11:36 am

The log curve for Gen 5 is entirely different and apparent if you decode into BMDFilm or Extended Video (and eventually we plan for Blackmagic Video to be updated too as we move out of beta).

Gen 5 uses a fixed log curve for all cameras that doesn't change per ISO so contrast is always consistent (it varies per ISO and camera on Gen 4), and also keeps the full range within video levels so highlight recovery in the right conditions is visible if checked, where on Gen 4 at native ISO or higher you generally need to pull the range down to see the recovered highlights. It makes grading from log more consistent and predictable and also for copying grades across cameras and even shots on the same camera at different ISO's. It also helps people using/making LUTs as the starting point is the same. Some people make LUTs and very precisely craft their gamma based on a certain ISO (usually "native") with Gen 4, but then someone may use a very different ISO that requires tweaking just to restore the contrast as intended by the LUT (I've seen people not realise this has affected their perception on liking some LUTs). Gen 5 doesn't have that issue.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 12:55 pm

Ah that is great, the contrast changing on Gen 4 when you change the ISO is one of those little niggles that complicate some grading workflows. Thanks for the info!
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostTue Oct 13, 2020 1:09 pm

CaptainHook wrote:The log curve for Gen 5 is entirely different and apparent if you decode into BMDFilm or Extended Video (and eventually we plan for Blackmagic Video to be updated too as we move out of beta).

Gen 5 uses a fixed log curve for all cameras that doesn't change per ISO so contrast is always consistent (it varies per ISO and camera on Gen 4), and also keeps the full range within video levels so highlight recovery in the right conditions is visible if checked, where on Gen 4 at native ISO or higher you generally need to pull the range down to see the recovered highlights. It makes grading from log more consistent and predictable and also for copying grades across cameras and even shots on the same camera at different ISO's. It also helps people using/making LUTs as the starting point is the same. Some people make LUTs and very precisely craft their gamma based on a certain ISO (usually "native") with Gen 4, but then someone may use a very different ISO that requires tweaking just to restore the contrast as intended by the LUT (I've seen people not realise this has affected their perception on liking some LUTs). Gen 5 doesn't have that issue.
So Gen 5 should become native on other Blackmagic Cameras like the Pocket 4K, Pocket 6K, UMPG2, and possibly the UMPG1 via a future firmware update?

This all sounds really awesome and amazing. Sounds like a great jumping off point for grading that will result in more consistent results.

Sadly just shot B-Cam with the G2 on a music video yesterday, but the director asked me to shoot ProRes because he had the Alexa Mini A-Cam shooting ProRes as well. Granted he is editing in Premiere Pro, and didn’t want to work in RAW. Still sounds like with the recent updates in the Beta that matching that ARRI would have been easier had he allowed me to shoot BRAW and processed it in Resolve.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 12:14 am

timbutt2 wrote:Okay, let me reclassify: CinemaDNG is obsolete in Blackmagic Cameras. They're moving forward with Blackmagic RAW for everything. And, Resolve will continue to support CDNG, but no future Blackmagic cameras are going to capture in that format so they don't need to update the camera science of past color shot in CDNG.

Obsolete or not but BMD still sell cameras that shoot DNG. There is a huge amount of older cameras that shoot DNG as well. If new color space math was developed and it works well in BRAW, why it is so complicated to add same lines of code for DNG?
More color spaces to start in RAW and new Gamut Compression looks great, but again it is all only for BRAW yet. No Gamut Compression for DNG, no Gamut Compression in OFX CST node, no Gamut Compression in Project settings

The best thing about DNG is that it is still the most "RAW" format that allow to access original sensor color space and do whatever you like with it.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 12:24 am

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Obsolete or not but BMD still sell cameras that shoot DNG. There is a huge amount of older cameras that shoot DNG as well. If new color space math was developed and it works well in BRAW, why it is so complicated to add same lines of code for DNG?
More color spaces to start in RAW and new Gamut Compression looks great, but again it is all only for BRAW yet. No Gamut Compression for DNG, no Gamut Compression in OFX CST node, no Gamut Compression in Project settings

The best thing about DNG is that it is still the most "RAW" format that allow to access original sensor color space and do whatever you like with it.


DNG is a dead end.

From a workflow point of view it sucks.

There’s no way to work past 4k. The data rates become totally unworkable. How on earth would a 12k DNG camera ever work. Or even a 6k one.

It’s just not practical.

I think you’re forgetting how poorly implemented DNG is too. For all that it’s OPEN FORMAT it also means every app treats it differently.

JB
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 12:39 am

Sure DNG for higher resolution is not convenient at all.
But:
- DNG for HD is great because provide better sharpness. (OLPF required to fix moire)
- DNG for stills is great because it can be processed in many different apps.
- Even newest BM cameras can capture stills in DNG. So why don't add more support in Resolve for that format and match BRAW options to DNG?
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 12:45 am

The 12K camera actually captures stills in Blackmagic RAW.
No plans for DNG to get further support for Blackmagic Camera Colour Science beyond the existing Gen 4 support.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 12:58 am

CaptainHook wrote:The 12K camera actually captures stills in Blackmagic RAW.
No plans for DNG to get further support for Blackmagic Camera Colour Science beyond the existing Gen 4 support.

Too bad but i can understand it. For me Cross Hatching in DNG is still a most stupid problem. When Fusion was integrated to Resolve pan/tilt 0.5px fix don't fully works anymore as it should and Node sizing 0.5px start to produce Pixel line Edge artifact :(
See details here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51936&p=594177#p497763 and here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=75290
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 1:20 am

Frankly, good riddance to cDNG. Happy it see it go.
Long live BRAW.
These latest updates are excellent!
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 1:35 am

Ok, if look at the problem from another side - will we ever see BMMCC firmware update with BRAW and Color Science Gen5?
There where a lot of rumors, but seems it was no any confirm or deny from developers about this.
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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostThu Oct 15, 2020 2:30 am

Dmitry Shijan wrote:Ok, if look at the problem from another side - will we ever see BMMCC firmware update with BRAW and Color Science Gen5?
There where a lot of rumors, but seems it was no any confirm or deny from developers about this.


What rumours.

Not sure if you’ve noticed but BMD run a very tight ship. A 12k sensor in development for 3 years and no leaks.

What rumours? When has a rumour ever been credible when it comes to BMD?

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Re: Resolve 16.3 Beta 3 and Blackmagic RAW 2.0 Beta 3

PostSun Oct 18, 2020 12:04 am

I don't understand all these dng bashing when BMD is still marketing other cameras using this format, including the OG BMCC. If dng is so obsolete as has been mentioned here, why can't BMD take a cue and pull the cameras off the market.
I mean, who will be encouraged to buy those cameras after reading this thread. Duh!

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