ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

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jallen0

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Feb 16, 2021 9:25 pm

Not sure drift matters if you are connected to just the BMD cameras. My guess is that it's a constant feed so there is not a "set it and disconnect it" type of deal.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Feb 16, 2021 9:56 pm

I'm going to have at least one non-BMD camera in play, so I was thinking that a Tentacle would be helpful for that. I'll probably just wind up using waveform sync if I need to replace the iso recording with the original file.

It would be a VERY useful update to add timecode reading capability to the audio inputs on the mini pro iso.
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jallen0

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Feb 16, 2021 10:05 pm

You are going to have to read this thread. In short however, as of today, there is no ability to input timecode into the ISO Pro. It is generated solo by the ISO Pro internally.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Feb 16, 2021 11:05 pm

Right, I did read the thread and understand that there's currently no way to get the Atem Mini sync'd to an external generator. I was asking if anyone had experience using a tentacle as a ToD TC generator "in parallel" with the Atem and how significant the drift might be between the Atem and a Tentacle. Since they're both in theory working from atomic clock as reference (correct me if I'm mistaken) wouldn't that be the equivalent of essentially jam-sync'ing them from the same source and then free running? Sorry if this is a stupid thought...
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jallen0

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Feb 16, 2021 11:33 pm

There is no way to get timecode out of the ISO Pro and feed it into the Tentacle Sync. Also the ISO Pro is not using an atomic clock, just it's internal clock or the computer clock.

It's not a stupid thought at all, in fact I am really hoping they add this functionality tomorrow. Myself, and a few others, have spent considerable time trying to work this specific issue with no results. We can feed it to another device but there is no way to get it from that device to a Tentacle Sync. And I have had multiple discussions with Tentacle Sync trying to figure out a way to do this with no luck yet. Maybe you can think of a way we have missed!
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 12:11 am

Got it thanks. For some reason, I was under the impression that Macs and / or iphones get their ToD from a common reference clock; and I was thinking that possibly tentacles sync'd via, say, an iPhone, and an Atem Mini clocked from a Mac are in theory referencing the same clock. But it sounds like that's not the case, unfortunately.
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 1:58 am

jallen0 wrote:There is no way to get timecode out of the ISO Pro and feed it into the Tentacle Sync.
There is but it isn't pretty. You can go from ATEM to a BiDirectional HDMI/SDI converter to a Teranex converter with LTC timecode output via XLR and then to a Tentacle Sync using the appropriate cable.

Even then it's just a fancy way to do a one-time sync of the clock in your ATEM with the clock in your Tentacle Sync. After that you're relying that the clocks don't drift from each other. That's how Tentacle Syncs work so it's never like having a true master source of timecode that's continuously feeding everything.

It's not much different than syncing the Tentacle Sync to the same computer that the ATEM is connected to using their app, except in that case you're depending that there's no variation in how the ATEM does its clock sync with how the Tentacle Sync app does its clock sync. You would also want to make sure you did them at approximately the same time if possible since if the ATEM has been powered up for a while its clock may have already drifted away from the computer clock somewhat.

It all seems silly to me if you've got a Mini Pro ISO since you can record the exact audio from all the cameras and that's like a super timecode signal that you can get perfect sync from without requiring any extra hardware or manual steps like a Tentacle Sync requires. It only requires that the cameras are recording some kind of audio and passing it over HDMI to the Mini Pro ISO. It doesn't matter what the audio is or whether it has anything to do with the audio from other cameras or microphones or if it's coming from the camera's internal microphone or external microphone input or some other connected audio source.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 3:06 am

That makes total sense Steve, and waveform sync does seem like the easiest and most reliable way to go.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 7:55 pm

Sorry to rehash this! But from what I'm reading, the Isos don't record each camera's onboard audio to each track but rather overwrite the program audio into all Isos. Is that correct? Apologies if I'm wrong on this.
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 8:00 pm

rstreber wrote:Sorry to rehash this! But from what I'm reading, the Isos don't record each camera's onboard audio to each track but rather overwrite the program audio into all Isos. Is that correct? Apologies if I'm wrong on this.
You get ISO audio files that are separate from the ISO video files. I guess the point of ISO recording is that all the audio and video tracks are recorded into separate files, and the program audio is just attached to the ISO video files for convenience. It's probably the most likely thing you'd want if you just wanted to grab a single ISO video file and use it without doing any editing.
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 8:16 pm

Ok, so the on-camera audio is captured via HDMI for each input and is available to relink to the associated video ISO as needed?

I'm asking about this because I will have situations where a non-BMPCC will be in an acoustically-isolated room from other cameras, and therefor the audio it captures will be significantly different than the program audio or that on the other cameras. If I want to relink the in-camera capture in post and I can't use timecode, waveform sync won't be particularly useful unless I have the camera's audio available with the iso video files, not just a program mix. The ATEM Mini manual is kind of ambiguous on this, but I'm assuming it's all good.
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 8:23 pm

rstreber wrote:Ok, so the on-camera audio is captured via HDMI for each input and is available to relink to the associated video ISO as needed?
Yes, all the audio from the cameras as well as the mic inputs is captured as wav files. Here is the contents of the audio folder for a test recording I did a while back for example:

ISO Audio.png
ISO Audio.png (104.78 KiB) Viewed 636 times
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rstreber

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSat Feb 20, 2021 8:50 pm

Awesome, thanks Steve! I'm hoping to run some tests with the Mini Pro Iso on some sessions this week. Excited to jump in.
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nathsteeley

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 1:48 pm

Steve Kanefsky wrote:It's probably not relevant to what people are trying to do on this thread, but I got to play with a Streaming Bridge today. Just for fun I wanted to see if it would pass the ATEM timecode through to its SDI or HDMI output. If it worked you could theoretically use it as part of the solution for sending ATEM timecode to other devices and avoid the need for extra splitters or converters to get the signal from the main HDMI output (assuming you needed the Streaming Bridge anyway for other purposes like having an extra program output without losing Multiview). More interestingly, it would be cool as a way to record audio and video from a remote site and get an accurate timecode that doesn't include the Internet latency.

In any case, it's a moot point because I wasn't able to get any timecode from either the HDMI or SDI outputs of the Streaming Bridge.


Hey Steve what was the latency like between program on the Atem HDMI output and the Streaming Bridge?

Would it be possible to use SDI from the bridge into a video recorder and combine it with analog audio without too much latency? (I can compensate by adding delays on the audio console)

I'm wondering if it's possible to record program as a backup with (embedded) program on ch 1-2 and possibly 6 more channels of direct mics or stems on ch 3-8 either directly via analog or embedded on the SDI. It's ok if it's not fully in sync but will give it a damn good go.

Oh and some recorders have an LTC input which I would use with a Teranex Mini SDI-Audio.
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nathsteeley

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 1:49 pm

Steve Kanefsky wrote:
rstreber wrote:Ok, so the on-camera audio is captured via HDMI for each input and is available to relink to the associated video ISO as needed?
Yes, all the audio from the cameras as well as the mic inputs is captured as wav files. Here is the contents of the audio folder for a test recording I did a while back for example:

ISO Audio.png


This is somewhat off topic, but say I want to use a camera's ISO audio track but ONLY when it's cut to program, similar to a camera effects mic in a sporting game. Is there a way to easily do this in Resolve without having to go through it manually?

Also I'll be ordering a BiDirectional 3G Converter tomorrow to use with an AMPI, Pocket4Ks and Teranex Mini SDI-Audio to get timecode into a ProTools SyncHD
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jallen0

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 10:26 pm

I will say that I am a bit disappointed with the new ATEM Switcher Software 8.6.1 update today. I keep hoping that the ability to provide external timecode will show up. Or course I am also hoping that Blackmagic employees will even communicate with us that this is a possibility.

Seems neither one of them are happening.
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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostSun Apr 25, 2021 6:59 pm

Steve Kanefsky wrote:The UpDownCross HD arrived today and I was able to test it with my ATEM Mini Pro ISO, Sound Devices MixPre-10 II, and also a Video Devices PIX-E7 monitor (useful for testing purposes since it has HDMI and SDI inputs for video and also an LTC timecode input. It can read and display timecode from any of those inputs).

The short story is that everything worked exactly as I had hoped right out of the box. I just plugged in the UpDownCross and connected the HDMI input to the ATEM, the HDMI output to the MixPre, and the SDI output to the Video Devices monitor. The MixPre received the timecode from the ATEM via HDMI and the Video Devices monitor received the timecode via SDI simultaneously.

I think it's a safe bet that if you added a Teranex converter that you could extract LTC timecode. Several models (e.g. the SDI-to-HDMI and SDI-to-Audio models) have SDI inputs and an XLR output that can be switched between audio and timecode.


Hi Steve. I was wondering if you could explain what settings you used on the MixPre to get it to lock to the ATEM’s TC? I have an extreme ISO and just got the MixPre 10ii and have not had luck locking the two together. For a basic test I connected an hdmi out of the ATEM into the Cam TC In and told the MixPre to accept it but the TC shown on it is slightly off from the ATEM. I tried a few variations like changing the frame rate but nothing works. Is there something I’m missing in the setup?
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Steve Kanefsky

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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Apr 27, 2021 2:07 pm

gregwurth wrote:Hi Steve. I was wondering if you could explain what settings you used on the MixPre to get it to lock to the ATEM’s TC? I have an extreme ISO and just got the MixPre 10ii and have not had luck locking the two together. For a basic test I connected an hdmi out of the ATEM into the Cam TC In and told the MixPre to accept it but the TC shown on it is slightly off from the ATEM. I tried a few variations like changing the frame rate but nothing works. Is there something I’m missing in the setup?
I don't have mine hooked up currently (I switched back to UAD Apollo interfaces) but I remember that it worked for me without much trouble. I think I did have to fiddle with a couple of the settings before it started working. Maybe try changing the sync ref setting and also make sure you're using the right mode for HDMI timecode (not the Fujifilm mode).

One thing that helps with debugging is to switch the ATEM timecode generator back and forth between time-of-day and free run modes in ATEM Software Control. You should see the timecode displayed on the MixPre instantly change from time-of-day to a counter starting from zero (or vice versa) whenever you change it on the ATEM.
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Re: ATEM Mini Pro Timecode External Audio Sync

PostTue Apr 27, 2021 3:26 pm

Here's how it worked for me. For the MIxPre 6II just go to the timecode screen and select external timecode I believe.

jallen0 wrote:I wanted to post an update here on another solution I can confirm works. Getting timecode from the ATEM Pro ISO to my Mix-Pre 6 II sound recorder. A big thanks to Steve Kanefsky for all of his work in this thread.

Here the pathway:

Hardware Set-up:
1) ATEM Mini Pro ISO - Take the HDMI Out to the HDMI In of the UltraStudio 4k Mini
2) Ultrastudio 4k Mini - Take the HDMI out to your confidence monitor
3) Ultrastudio 4k Mini - Take the SDI out to the new SDI to HDMI 3G Micro Converter
4) SDI to HDMI 3G Micro Converter - Take the HDMI out to the Sound Devices Mix-Pre 6II mini HDMI TC Input. Go to the timecode menu and select HDMI TC input

Software Set-up:
1) You must be running the ATEM Software Control software for the entire show
2) Go under the Output tab then select the Capture Video button. Select the Ultrastudio 4k Mini as the input device. As a side note the Ultrastudio 4k Mini must be connected to your computer via thunderbolt.
3) Go to the Desktop Video control screen for the Ultrastudio 4k Mini and select the right output for your individual confidence monitor. I used 1080p 60 for my TV.

Expected Result:
A) I am using 2 BMPCC 6k cameras and a mic that goes to the Mix-Pre 6K. All of them are fed the same timecode generated by the ATEM Mini Pro ISO.
B) I can attach an SSD drive and record the ISO files and then drop in the audio that matches the timecode inside Resolve.

Next Challenge:
Find some way to get that timecode into either a Tentacle Sync or my Sony cameras. So far I have no idea how to do this.
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