Starter cine package suggestions

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BatmansBM

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Starter cine package suggestions

PostWed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 pm

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
Meike 50mm T2.2 Cinema Lens - MFT
Sandisk Extreme Pro CFast 2.0 128 GB (525R/450W)

I primarily want to shoot 4K 30 fps to 60fps. The only distortion I am interested in is the bokeh effects that cinematic anamorphic 2:35:1 lenses produce especially with the background blurred in contrast to the subject matter in the foreground. I don't want wide-angle lens distortion for now. I would consider some sort of Sigma telephoto lens with minimal zoom but I want to avoid image stabilization. I will use gyroscopes for that and Davinci Resolve.

I am making this step because I want to upgrade to DaVinci 17 pro and I want to start shooting digital cinema quality RAW 4K footage for presentation as widescreen. As close to 2.35:1 anamorphic look as I can get as near 35mm film quality on a budget.

Or can I do better on a similar budget?

Thanks
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Uli Plank

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 12:39 am

While the Meike is nice, it's not really a wide angle on MFT, rather a short tele. For budget lenses, make yourself familiar with vintage photographic glass. Minolta for example is still cheap, while great quality. See my thread over at: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread ... ival-Guide

Another good starting place is https://www.vintagelensesforvideo.com

And then, the typical anamorphic bokeh can only be achieved with an anamorphic lens.
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rick.lang

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 5:15 am

Your proposed gear won’t give you an anamorphic bokeh. You may not have the appropriate lens as Uli mentioned. You might use an true anamorphic lens however they are not inexpensive. An anamorphic adapter requires that your taking lens has a sufficiently large image circle as the adapter will increase your horizontal angle of view. Let us know if you understand all that or we should provide you more specific information or examples.

What budget would you have for the lens or anamorphic adapter?
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BatmansBM

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 7:15 am

One video I was looking at was and I seemed to like was the Sigma 50mm 1.4 bokeh test


I am also reading and learning about a Metabones Speedbooster.

I am open to the idea of using anamorphic lens adapters on a budget lens. Isn't that the 3.7K Anamorphic format setting and then using the de-squeeze feature on the camera? I hope DaVinci has the de-squeeze also.

However, I am interested in retaining 4K quality also. However nice bokeh is a big consideration for me. I like that look and will be using it often.
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 10:27 am

In addition to what's already been said above, the Pocket 4K has a 16:9 aspect ratio sensor. In order to get the traditional oval bokeh from a 2x squeeze anamorphic lens or adapter in the correct desqueezed aspect ratio you would have to crop in quite a lot on the sensor.

You could also get a 1.33x squeeze lens to use the whole sensor and get a 2.40:1 image, but then there's hardly any oval bokeh.
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BatmansBM

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 2:01 pm

roger.magnusson wrote:In addition to what's already been said above, the Pocket 4K has a 16:9 aspect ratio sensor. In order to get the traditional oval bokeh from a 2x squeeze anamorphic lens or adapter you would have to crop in quite a lot on the sensor.

You could also get a 1.33x squeeze lens to use the whole sensor and get a 2.40:1 image, but then there's hardly any oval bokeh.


Okay this seems like a valid point. If I look at a Super35mm movie camera aperture the full-frame ratio is 4:3. On a 4k TV I have black bars at the top and bottom. So basically I seeing just 4K cropping for that 2.4:1 shape. A full 55" 4K screen is the entire 4K sensor. Therefore all bokeh effects need to be coming from an effect on the lens and I need the right lens for the job.

So if I am sticking with the BMPCC4K what would be a good lens and any adapter I need have a cinematic image not unlike anamorphic super35mm 2.35:1 background bokeh. If I won't get exact the same on a budget that's fine, just something close. What I say budget I mean not spending on a professional version of the gear at industry-standard grade. Semi-pro level is what I am aiming for.
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 08, 2021 4:52 pm

Agree with everyone else comment on the lens. You might also want to check out the SLR Magic line of cine lenses, as well as anamorphic adapters. For instance...
SLR Magic 25mm T0.95 HyperPrime Cine III Lens (MFT Mount) - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _cine.html

Anamorphic adapters...
1.33 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

or go with something like this...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... s=pi&pim=Y

BTW, these lenses are not really wide with the Pocket 4K as you're looking at MFT and also without a focal reducer.

On the CFast card, I suggest getting a 256Gb as your minimum. The Angelbirds are excellent and their prices have been pretty reasonable (compared to the Sandisk Ex-Pro) lately.
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 9:19 am

I decided not to go with anamorphic. In the end, I just felt it was not worth the constraints it would put on lens options, the higher prices and the extra work in processing the image. So I will not be going with anamorphics.

Now I want to know if I really need 6K or 6K pro. Or will 4K do. 6K really is a jump up in costs and even without a lens.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 1:50 pm

BatmansBM wrote: In the end, I just felt it was not worth the constraints it would put on lens options, the higher prices and the extra work in processing the image. So I will not be going with anamorphics.

You can always rent anamorphic lenses if the need arises and get an adapter if budget is there.

BatmansBM wrote:Now I want to know if I really need 6K or 6K pro. Or will 4K do. 6K really is a jump up in costs and even without a lens.

This is a matter of preference, convenience, budget, and need. I don't think anyone can tell you if 6K Pro is better than 6K than a 4K. Everyone of this camera can give you excellent IQ and result if you know how to optimally use them.
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 12:21 pm

My GoPro Hero 5 is the only 4K camera I have. It's a fixed lens camera though. You can change settings from that first-person action camera wide-angle spherical look to a flatter linear one. That linear mode is maybe the closest look to a normal SLR with a wide angle lens. Hero 5 is only 12MP. I like it can do 4K at 24 or 25 fps. It has great HD recording at 120 fps for example. Action videos.

I do have access to a phone with 16MP. So a BMPCC4K does stills at only 8MP and if I want 21MP then I need the BMPCC6K. Anyway, the 4K 60 fps and ability to use nice lenses does make the BMPCC4K look like an affordable option.

The only thing is that the Fuji X-T3 is offering some very nice color science with its 4K 60 fps capability. Despite the slight frame crop because it is not a full-frame sensor, APS-C, might also be a contender instead of the BMPCC4K.

So if I wanted a BMPCC4K I might consider an X-T3 instead.
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 4:08 pm

BatmansBM wrote:My GoPro Hero 5 is the only 4K camera I have. It's a fixed lens camera though. You can change settings from that first-person action camera wide-angle spherical look to a flatter linear one. That linear mode is maybe the closest look to a normal SLR with a wide angle lens. Hero 5 is only 12MP. I like it can do 4K at 24 or 25 fps. It has great HD recording at 120 fps for example. Action videos.

Why not just get yourself an upgrade with a GoPro Hero 9? Keep in mind you cannot compare the BMPCC line of cameras to a GoPro or DSLR camera. It is a cinema camera and has cinema camera functionality and IQ. You will be disappointed if you think that it is a GoPro replacement. It is a camera that you will need to learn to use first and foremost.

BatmansBM wrote:I do have access to a phone with 16MP. So a BMPCC4K does stills at only 8MP and if I want 21MP then I need the BMPCC6K.

Ha! You will be very disappointed if you think the BMPCC line of cameras 'still' functionality will be anything but. The still feature on the BMPCC is primary conceived to be used for capturing still shots for reference when filming on set for things like continuity reference. It is NOT a still photography camera. You have to get that off your mind.

BatmansBM wrote:The only thing is that the Fuji X-T3 is offering some very nice color science with its 4K 60 fps capability.

Color science - are you kidding me? Not even close.


BatmansBM wrote:So if I wanted a BMPCC4K I might consider an X-T3 instead.

I think you are better off with a GoPro or if you want to spend some money, the X-T3. As I said, you will just be disappointed with BMD cameras if you're thinking of it as a for consumer camera. Good luck!
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 6:21 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
BatmansBM wrote:Why not just get yourself an upgrade with a GoPro Hero 9? Keep in mind you cannot compare the BMPCC line of cameras to a GoPro or DSLR camera. It is a cinema camera and has cinema camera functionality and IQ. You will be disappointed if you think that it is a GoPro replacement. It is a camera that you will need to learn to use first and foremost.

Ha! You will be very disappointed if you think the BMPCC line of cameras 'still' functionality will be anything but. The still feature on the BMPCC is primary conceived to be used for capturing still shots for reference when filming on set for things like continuity reference. It is NOT a still photography camera. You have to get that off your mind.

Color science - are you kidding me? Not even close.

I think you are better off with a GoPro or if you want to spend some money, the X-T3. As I said, you will just be disappointed with BMD cameras if you're thinking of it as a for consumer camera. Good luck!


My background involved film school and working for TV later on. I used 16mm, 35mm and Betacam SP before going to MiniDV and Digital S. I basically stopped for decades and want to get back into it again by going digital.

I get the BMPCC isn't a stills camera nor a replacement for a GoPro. I just meant that GoPro Hero 5 is the closest I have come to using modern digital 4K systems. Hero 9 is a very impressive action camera for 4K DCI quality.

I referenced Fuji because it does 4K DCI and also Fuji has a color science history because it use to make even cinematography film stock like Kodak. DaVinci Resolve has some Fuji film LUTs but the Fujicam X-T3 has also got LUT and Log settings within in that look as good as what I have seen for BMPCC4K in terms of YouTube 4K example videos. They both have roughly the same sensor sizes (3/4). So I just saw them both as being close to each other but you seem to think the BMPCC is maybe much more cinematic than the X-T3? Like more faithful to the 35mm big screen look?
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 9:03 pm

BatmansBM wrote:My background involved film school and working for TV later on. I used 16mm, 35mm and Betacam SP before going to MiniDV and Digital S. I basically stopped for decades and want to get back into it again by going digital.


You'll find pretty much any current BMD camera to be rather luxurious if you're used to working with film.

I get the BMPCC isn't a stills camera nor a replacement for a GoPro. I just meant that GoPro Hero 5 is the closest I have come to using modern digital 4K systems. Hero 9 is a very impressive action camera for 4K DCI quality.


When you see the difference in color rendition, you'll start becoming a bit annoyed with the GoPro. :)

When you start adding looks either by creating show LUTs or by color grading (or both), you'll start looking for ways to avoid using the GoPro.

I referenced Fuji because it does 4K DCI and also Fuji has a color science history because it use to make even cinematography film stock like Kodak. DaVinci Resolve has some Fuji film LUTs but the Fujicam X-T3 has also got LUT and Log settings within in that look as good as what I have seen for BMPCC4K in terms of YouTube 4K example videos. They both have roughly the same sensor sizes (3/4). So I just saw them both as being close to each other but you seem to think the BMPCC is maybe much more cinematic than the X-T3? Like more faithful to the 35mm big screen look?


Fuji has a well-earned reputation for its color rendition, because Fuji has been involved in digital imaging since more or less the beginning of time as far as digital imaging is concerned. Their looks aren't the same, but Braw is so malleable that it doesn't really matter that much, and the "stock" look gives you a great starting point. The Fuji's are however primarily still cameras with added video features, which is the main difference as far as quality goes. Great stills, decent video vs the Black Magic great video with decent stills.

Holding off on going anamorphic is a good idea. Start with rectilinear lenses, learn the camera, the footage, and the post process, and as you get more comfortable with all of that you can decide when you're ready to snag an anamorphic lens or adaptor, or just rent anamorphic lenses for a particular shoot.
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Re: Starter cine package suggestions

PostThu Apr 22, 2021 6:18 pm

All photos are beautiful. Thank you for thisthread.

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