Timeline Colour space and controls

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irfanintekhab

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Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSat Apr 10, 2021 1:56 pm

Hello, i am studying about colour management in resolve past 2 weeks and understand a lot of basics. Manual was very helpful as well. I have a little confusion.

Ive seen some Hollywood colourists in courses as well (don't want to name them) using timeline colour space as the log footage itself. Arri Log C in the courses to be precise. And one of them even calls it out saying "you should always have the timeline colour space set as the Log footage you are working on or you are wasting all that information".

From my research I've understood the following (working with BM footage)

Colour science: Davinci YRGB
Timeline colour space: Rec 709 g 2.4
2nd node CST with following settings
input space: BM
Input gamma: BM Film
Output Space: Rec 709
Output gamma: 2.4

And

Colour science: Davinci YRGB
Timeline colour space: BM Film
2nd node CST with following settings
input space: BM
Input gamma: BM Film
Output Space: Rec 709
Output gamma: 2.4

Gives the exact same look (considering no corrections are done)

From my research I understand the difference between them will only be how the controls will work and will feel different. (please correct me if i am wrong in this).
But to me, even the controls feels same! i am so confused! am i doing something wrong here? did i get things wrong? i dont now understand what difference does the timeline colour space make if we have a CST at the very last node.

Please help
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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSat Apr 10, 2021 7:15 pm

I just did some more experiments and this is what I noticed.

When I change the color science to davinci color managed. Then the timeline colour space makes a huge difference to how controls works. In rec 709 timeline space, it's just uncontrollable! Not gradeable at all for me personally. I like how it works when in davinci wide gamut or bm film.

Does this mean, in a workflow when using davinci yrgb (i.e, display referred), and a CST node at the node tree end, timeline colour space doesn't really do anything? Since the footage is staying in log space till the CST I think?

But that setting exists. And I am confused what is it for then

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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSat Apr 10, 2021 7:25 pm

I also noticed. The controls work exactly same if I am using the davinci yrgb with CST at the end and grade before that compared to how it works in RCM with davinci wide gamut or bm film timeline space. Or atleast very similar that I don't feel a difference.

I am just wondering what timeline color space in davinci yrgb and cst workflow does since I don't feel the difference in controls at all.

Also one more question, if I've graded the entire timeline via davinci yrgb and cst at the end workflow for rec 709 2.4. And I need to deliver or for test want to try another output space, for example g 2.2 or hdr. What's the best way to do this? 3 possibilities come to my mind

1. Group all the clips, do a cst in group post clip
2. From setting change output LUT to whatever
3. Make a node at timeline level and do CST

Which one would work best in this?

Kindly help. Thanks!

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Jason Conrad

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSat Apr 10, 2021 7:50 pm

Make sure the tutorials you're following are all up to date. There was a significant update from RCM in Resolve 16 to RCM2 in Resolve 17.

"Davinci YRGB" is basically not color managed, so outdated tutorials on that will be less of a problem, theoretically, at least.

Oh, and the full Resolve manual at this point hasn't incorporated the new features from R17, so make sure you're referring to the supplemental R17 "new features guide" as well.

To look for differences in the "feel" of the controls, make sure you're watching scopes as you make the changes.
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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSat Apr 10, 2021 8:19 pm

Thank you Jason for replying. Yes I am aware of that and have read the new features guide as well.

Although that is not what I am confused about. Very well did the scopes part as well.

I'll try to reframe my questions.

1. When using Davinci YRGB (i.e. non colour managed / display referred) what does timeline color space do? As I see changing this from rec to log does nothing to how the controls behave. This is the CST at the node tree end workflow (1st workflow)

2. When using Davinci RCM (i.e color managed / scene referred) and using Davinci wide gamut or log space as timeline color space, controls behave as in 1st workflow. So is this equivalent to putting a CST at the end?

3. When using Davinci RCM (i.e color managed / scene referred) and using rec space as timeline color space, controls behave as in 1st except like how it behaves if controlling after the CST node. This feels very restricted. Curves behave sudden. And wheels don't overlap quite nicely. So is this equivalent to putting a CST at the first node?

When I am saying feel, I am also considering the scopes.

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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 5:14 am

Anyone help please

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Jim Simon

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 1:38 pm

I find I get better results with less work using ACES, so...
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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 1:46 pm

Jim Simon wrote:I find I get better results with less work using ACES, so...
I tried and liked that too. However. I am not worried about the results. I am just wanting to learn how things work so I can make an informed decision of what to do when I do.

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irfanintekhab

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Re: Timeline Colour space and controls

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 4:26 pm

irfanintekhab wrote:Thank you Jason for replying. Yes I am aware of that and have read the new features guide as well.

Although that is not what I am confused about. Very well did the scopes part as well.

I'll try to reframe my questions.

1. When using Davinci YRGB (i.e. non colour managed / display referred) what does timeline color space do? As I see changing this from rec to log does nothing to how the controls behave. This is the CST at the node tree end workflow (1st workflow)

2. When using Davinci RCM (i.e color managed / scene referred) and using Davinci wide gamut or log space as timeline color space, controls behave as in 1st workflow. So is this equivalent to putting a CST at the end?

3. When using Davinci RCM (i.e color managed / scene referred) and using rec space as timeline color space, controls behave as in 1st except like how it behaves if controlling after the CST node. This feels very restricted. Curves behave sudden. And wheels don't overlap quite nicely. So is this equivalent to putting a CST at the first node?

When I am saying feel, I am also considering the scopes.

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Can anyone answer this please?

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