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Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

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Agent83

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Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 9:17 am

Hi, I have a simple question and hope of a support.
I bought two Fusion Studio licenses. I have two Windows 10 computers on which I have both licenses installed. On one machine, Fusion Render Nodes is enabled. On the main computer, I created a composition with Fusion Studio that simply reads 19 seconds of a clip and render it as output in MOV format. If I render the clip without a network node, I get a file with a playing time of 19 seconds. When I render with network nodes, I get a file with 7 seconds of play time. In the Render Manager log, all frames are rendered. My simple question: How can I use the render nodes to render a file that has exactly the same playing time as my original file?
Second question: Fusion Nodes help does not include any instructions on how to install the Fusion Render Nodes. Where can I get a detailed description of how to install and setup this software?
Third question: If I create a pseudo path in the PathMap, this path is always entered under the category Users. How can I enter new entries in the Default or System area? Where is the description of how to use this software?
I am happy about any help with which I can use this software. Thank you in advance.
Some screenshots are attachted at topic.
Attachments
Fusion Studio Test-5.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-5.jpg (324.39 KiB) Viewed 441 times
Fusion Studio Test-3.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-3.jpg (45.37 KiB) Viewed 441 times
Fusion Studio Test-2.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-2.jpg (136.07 KiB) Viewed 441 times
Last edited by Agent83 on Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Agent83

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 9:38 am

A few more questions: In my small test environment with two computers, the hard drive with the clip is set up as a network drive. On both computers, the same space is accessible under the same drive letter and path.
Can I also use nodes that have only one network connection and no shared drives? Is a shared network drive always necessary, accessible from all nodes with the same path?
Attachments
Fusion Studio Test-7.jpg
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Agent83

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 4:18 pm

I did the following test:
1.Rendering with two nodes, the video has different lengths depending on the load of the computers or network. Never the input length. The video output is not useable.
2.Exclusively rendering with the node of the Manager Node, the video has the correct length and number of frames.
3.Exclusively Render with the Remote Node, the video has the correct length and number of frames.

Result: If two or more nodes render a composite, the video is destroyed.
If the remote node does not have the same drive and path with the Composition file, or if the Remote Node fails, which is quite possible with a distributed render, the entire render job is paused even though a second node is available. Also, no status messages are output at the master node. All of this seems to me to be very rudimentary functionality or implementation of a functionality.

A simple question: What is the need for the Fusion Render Nodes?
What is the function of this program?

The documentation does not show how to use a distributed rendering or splitting a render job in a network (with or without shared network drives, fix IP addresses for the nodes necessary or not, the data is stored on local drives and then must be merged by another program, how does synchronization, etc.)? I have the impression that the job of a node that writes most often prevails. Apparently, the target video file does not open as a shared random access file. This raises the question of how to get the data from multiple external render nodes goes into the output file correctly?
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Agent83

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Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 5:14 pm

Hi, I have a simple question and hope of a support.

I bought two Fusion Studio licenses. I have two Windows 10 computers on which I have both licenses installed. On one machine, Fusion Render Nodes is enabled. On the main computer, I created a composition with Fusion Studio that simply reads 19 seconds of a clip and render it as output in MOV format. If I render the clip without a network node, I get a file with a playing time of 19 seconds. When I render with network nodes, I get a file with 7 seconds of play time. In the Render Manager log, all frames are rendered.
My simple question: How can I use the render nodes to render a file that has exactly the same playing time as my original file?
Second question: Fusion Nodes help does not include any instructions on how to install the Fusion Render Nodes. Where can I get a detailed description of how to install and setup this software?
Third question: If I create a pseudo path in the PathMap, this path is always entered under the category Users. How can I enter new entries in the Default or System area? Where is the description of how to use this software?
I am happy about any help with which I can use this software. Thank you in advance.
Some screenshots are attachted at topic.

I did the following test:
1.Rendering with two nodes, the video has different lengths depending on the load of the computers or network. Never the input length. The video output is not useable.
2.Exclusively rendering with the node of the Manager Node, the video has the correct length and number of frames.
3.Exclusively Render with the Remote Node, the video has the correct length and number of frames.

Result: If two or more nodes render a composite, the video is destroyed, means not useable (render a movie with 60min. and the render output is 14min).
If the remote node does not have the same drive and path with the Composition file, or if the Remote Node fails, which is quite possible with a distributed render, the entire render job is paused even though a second node is available. Also, no status messages are output at the master node. All of this seems to me to be very rudimentary functionality or implementation of a functionality.

A simple question: What is the need for the Fusion Render Nodes?
What is the function of this program?

The documentation does not show how to use a distributed rendering or splitting a render job in a network (with or without shared network drives, fix IP addresses for the nodes necessary or not, the data is stored on local drives and then must be merged by another program, how does synchronization, etc.)? I have the impression that the job of a node that writes most often prevails. Apparently, the target video file does not open as a shared random access file. This raises the question of how to get the data from multiple external render nodes goes into the output file correctly?
Attachments
Fusion Studio Test-2.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-2.jpg (136.07 KiB) Viewed 459 times
Fusion Studio Test-6.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-6.jpg (451.42 KiB) Viewed 459 times
Fusion Studio Test-7.jpg
Fusion Studio Test-7.jpg (39.12 KiB) Viewed 459 times
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Sander de Regt

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 6:51 pm

The short version is: you cannot render MOV files with Render Nodes.
Movie files are rendered and saved sequentially and are not meant to be written to randomly.
The usual approach for Render Nodes is: render to image sequences and *after rendering those* combine all of those in the movie file of your choice on a single machine.
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bentheanimator

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 7:22 pm

You also don't need two licenses for it to work. Just take your dongle to the other machine. Load up all the stuff to make it mirror the original system (plug-ins, scripts, etc...) and make sure your paths are all correct for file access. Then you're good to go with just the render node.

He's absolutely right. Image sequences work but movie files have too much going on under the hood to work correctly. Hell, some video files don't even have a complete classical "frame" to render. Just a few pixels that are change from the previous one. Maybe try an uncompressed codec? It might work with better results. Something like the Microsoft AVI Uncompressed? Probably won't but there should be minimal temporal shenanigans in a file like that.

Also forget Cyrptomattes as well. I've never gotten one of those to render accurately over network. Always a frame, or twenty, out of order or glitched.

You know, you might be able to write a pretty compact python script that would check for the number of files in a given folder(render) and when that number was met, it would use FFMpeg to generate a .MOV. Look up FFMpeg python stuff and I'm pretty sure some of the examples will get you 90% of the way there.

EDIT*
You can also install Deadline for shared rendering. It's fifty dollars per machine if you use more than two. Seeing as you are only using two, you can install it and run it free. The upside of Deadline is that you can use it for a render manager for Fusion, Maya, Nuke, Houdini, C4D or a ton of other things. It also will restart the job and continue on if it crashes out, which can happen from time to time.
I'm going to do this in a couple of days when I have the free time but you might want to try it instead of the built in network renderer. Here is a link to a conversation about getting it to run in Fu16+...
https://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckless/viewtopic.php?t=3897

https://www.awsthinkbox.com/deadline
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 8:06 am

You will have better luck in Fusion subforum where you already posted it, this forum is literally for software development, meaning using the SDKs etc for BMD products. Fusion support from BMD side is practically nonexistent, you can hope for longtime users chiming in, which they have already done.

You can't render to video containers through network, because frames get delivered in random order. This limitation isn't inherent to Fusion, it works the same in most softwares. Render as image sequences and combine to video container after you have all the frames rendered. Exr sequences are usually used as comp intermediates.
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Agent83

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 3:38 pm

Hi together, thank you very much for your answers.
I wanted to use Fusion for a distributed workflow and started with this simple test. I also noticed that the PathMap is not resolved (transformed to the real path). So I can create a pseudo-path in the PathMap, but it is not resolved into the real path in the Saver and Loader (this applies to my Windows machine). It's a bug? No it's feature! :D In summary from my point of view and for me: not usesable software.

However, the official manual are so thin that all the clues from you are unfortunately missing from the official documents. That's why the Fusion Nodes cannot be used for me. The software does not bring any advantage to me. Or I don't understand it. That is probably the problem.

PS: Render with two nodes: I want to build a rendering farm and started with this software and two nodes. But now I'm one step further. Thank you for your help.
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Agent83

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 3:50 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:The short version is: you cannot render MOV files with Render Nodes.
Movie files are rendered and saved sequentially and are not meant to be written to randomly.
The usual approach for Render Nodes is: render to image sequences and *after rendering those* combine all of those in the movie file of your choice on a single machine.


First of all, I would like to thank you for this important point.

From my point of view, this would not be an argument that an output format does not have the skills I need as a developer. My point of view is that when I offer a feature in a program, I have to process my data in such a way that the offered output formats work. Otherwise, this is simply bad software when I offer a function that does not work for the settings in the program or only in special cases. Such programming is bad and costs the buyer an enormous amount of effort. This only ruins the image of the software provider.

If, as a software provider, I also implicitly require additional software for my own program, but i don't give any hints in the documentation and promise everything in the advertising, then that's not okay for me. I buy a product with an expectation.

I would like to give a hint to the developers. From my point of view, the design is not optimal. You should not rely on shared drives and certain file properties. For render nodes, packets should be exchanged between the client and the server and assembled into a stream in the sender. This makes me more flexible and safer in my overall handling. The traffic remains in any case, only in the proposed design I have control over the data stream as a provider of the software. This also reduces the complexity of my design.
Last edited by Agent83 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Agent83

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Re: Fusion Render Nodes lost of 60% of frames or more

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 4:07 pm

I would also like to show the excerpt from the Render Manager log, which is an error caused by using a PathMap. For real paths, the rendering process works.
Note: New software and a small simple test. The result is numerous software errors. Very very regrettable.

MediaIn1 failed to load file "babelsberg:\Shootings\8k Raw\VID_2020_05_09_19_22_20210323124529_0.mov" (clip "babelsberg:\Shootings\8k Raw\VID_2020_05_09_19_22_20210323124529_0.mov" at frame 984)
...
MediaOut1_1 failed to write to "babelsberg:\Production\babelsberg-1 extract-7680-DNxHR-mono_V1-0002.mov" ("babelsberg:\Production\babelsberg-1 extract-7680-DNxHR-mono_V1-0002.mov") frame 984: Invalid argument

... > with real pathes works

"F:\Archive\Recordings\3DS\UNESCO Park Babelsberg\Production\compositions\babelsberg-composition-clip2.comp" queued by KayGo on MESY-DT01

13/Apr/21 17:11:37 - mesy-dt01 assigned to F:\Archive\Recordings\3DS\Production\compositions\babelsberg-composition-clip2.comp

13/Apr/21 17:11:37 - mesy-dt01 (127.0.0.1) is loaded & ready to render F:\Archive\Recordings\3DS\Production\compositions\babelsberg-composition-clip2.comp
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