ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

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Gunnar

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ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostMon Jun 07, 2021 1:22 pm

Last week we did a live broadcast using Webex. Besides using the Webex record of the meeting I decided to use a ATEM mini ISO to record the event. I cionnected 2 HDMI cables between the ATEM mini and my Mac. Letting screen one be the presentation and screen 2 be the presenter (this is possible to do in Webex).

The video recording went very well but I have no audio. I did not make any microphone active so that might be the reason. But I do have audio source file for all 4 HDMI inputs as well as the 2 microphone inputs. But all of them are recordings of silence. As we are recording all inputs should not atleast one of my 2 HDMI inputs have a sound file with the audio form the Webex meeting? Or should I have done somthing in my recording session to get the sould recorded?
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BennoZ

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostSat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 pm

Iso records all channels, if they are connected or not and if audio is muted or not. Because you didn’t activate audio you have only silent audio tracks.
ALWAYS listen to the output of your Atem.
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Axel Mertes

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostTue Jun 15, 2021 5:06 pm

BennoZ wrote:Iso records all channels, if they are connected or not and if audio is muted or not. Because you didn’t activate audio you have only silent audio tracks.
ALWAYS listen to the output of your Atem.



Shouldn't the ISO record all the input signals, regardless if you mute them on the ISO or not?
My understanding is that the red marked channels will be send to program bus.
However, the individuallly recorded input channels audio files should contain the unchanged source signals.

Am I missing something here?
Axel Mertes
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BennoZ

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 5:43 am

Axel Mertes wrote:Shouldn't the ISO record all the input signals, regardless if you mute them on the ISO or not?

No, when you mute there is no audio signal so nothing will be recorded. Also if you put the fader down you don’t get audio in the ISO recording. ISO means isolated, so every track separate so you can edit audio and video afterwards to create a new mix.
Keep in mind that the audio on the video ISO’s is program, NOT ISO. You need to replace this audio with the separate recorded audio. It’s a very strange and abnormal decision from Blackmagic.
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Axel Mertes

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 8:58 am

Hi BennoZ,

to get this right:

On the Mini Pro ISO and Mini Extreme ISO we have two sets of recordings:

1. The program stream recording, with all visible effetcs etc.
2. The 4 or 8 indiviual recordings of each source HDMI channel.

Are you saying that if an audio channel is muted or fader is down, it won't be recording into the 4 or 8 individual source channel audio recordings?
So in a worsed case one would have e.g. 8 mics coming in from 8 cameras, all muted or fader down, and no single audio track will contain audio then?

My understanding was always that the input channels - audio and video - will be recorded UNMODIFIED - so that you can revert back in editing - DaVinci Resolve - and repeat every adjustment done in the ATEM mixer.

I can check this maybe tomorrow, when I am back on the machine.

It would be really crazy if the input channel recordings would NOT contain any UNMODIFIED audio, worsed case then empty audio. That is not a decision, that is IMHO a bug. The same rules for any changes applied to video levels etc. This is all fine for the maser program recording, there it is an EXPECTED MUST HAVE. But the sources are sources, they should be as "RAW" as possible (meaning RAW in terms of unmodified input signals).

IMHO the ISOs should record ALL actions taking place as kind of a large macro file, so anything that happened to the source signals would be repeatable. Given that and the recordings of the unmodified input signals of all input channels, one would be able to recreate the entire project. THAT is what this whole thing is all about, right?
Axel Mertes
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rogersuski

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 5:01 pm

The unit works the way it was designed, not the way you wished it worked. The ISOlation recordings feature unique video BUT program audio.
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eMilty

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 10:59 am

The reason that the ISO recordings of each channel contain PGM audio is that this allows you to sync the tracks based on audio. The ISO recordings are also timecode synced so this gives you two options to sync the tracks for multicam editing.

The audio in the ISO recordings is probably something you don't want to use anyway as it's AAC compressed audio. The separately saved audio files are uncompressed WAV files. The audio files also have no processing or EQ applied to them either so they allow you to make a completely new audio mix from the raw audio.

It would have been nice if BMD had included the raw audio as a separate stream in the ISO recording so you don't have to add the original audio yourself.
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Axel Mertes

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files -> IMPORTANT

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 7:18 pm

rogersuski wrote:The unit works the way it was designed, not the way you wished it worked. The ISOlation recordings feature unique video BUT program audio.


I've checked this today - and I prooved it is basically wrong! Let me explain...

When you insert the CAM1 to CAM4/CAM8 streams from the bin, they have identical audio with the program stream - which is apparently a bug. Thats what you say how it works...

...but, if you look up the actual audio files in the "Audio Source Files" folder, you'll see that these contain UNMODIFIED INPUT AUDIO - as I expected - from the HDMI inputs!

We tried to fade out, mute, whatever while doing this test recording. This is all reflected in the program audio, yes. And when you pick the clips CAM1 to CAM4/CAM8 from the preconfigured ISO Resolve project recording bin, you'll get the exact same program audio again. But that is NOT the audio that has been recorded from the HDMI inputs to the 4/8+2 MIC audio channels that instead you can find in the "Audio Source Files" folder.

I am not sure if repeating program audio on these CAM1 to CAM4/CAM8 clips happens on purpose or if it is a bug. At least I am now absolutely sure and confident that I will always have access to the unmodified source audio that was fed into the ATEM Mini ISO mixers via HDMI.
Axel Mertes
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eMilty

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Re: ATEM Mini ISO audio source files

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 1:24 pm

@Axel Mertes: It is suppose to work like that. It's not a bug and it will (should) work like that consistently. It might not be what you want but it's just how BMD designed it to work, with their reasons for it.

I guess it could be possible for BMD to add the original audio to the ISO recording (as well).

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