New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 26, 2021 11:04 pm

RAW is your friend for sure when it comes to recording.
What you do later is another matter. Having RAW pixels means you can do all what you want and you are not limited to processing power inside camera chip.
This is exactly the reason why high-end cameras use RAW :)
Sensor size is meaningless here.
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 12:25 am

So do you have the solution, how to move big number of selected files from iPhone to computer directory without a 3rd party SW, or you just go with the flow, get bigger memory when the previous iPhone gets full and/or iCloud?

I have had iPhone and worked on Mac more than 10 years, The above problem is real and happening for many. So is my problem that iPhone 7 memory is full, and have no other need to update the phone. Just need to move over 4 years old photos and videos to computer...

The 200GB: 2.99 € iCloud is kind of tempting solution, but in few years that would be 2TB: 9.99 € and as said I have had one too many times big problems with iCloud*. For me having old photos and videos easily accessible on computer would be just the best solution. Just like I have when shooting with a real camera.

This might not be a big problem if using iPhone to shoot couple of video clips and right after moving them to computer and removing from iPhone, but if you shoot 100 clips during couple of weeks and then want to move them to computer and remove them form iCloud and iPhone, good luck.

* the problem was: I was putting big files to my documents folder, and had also plenty of files there before. I did not know that folder is synched with iCloud by default. I was on remote location, bad internet. the CPU was running 100% and eating battery fast, after some digging found it was iCloud trying to synch very aggressively over bad connection. After trying many things decided to take the computer out from iCloud, bad mistake. When doing that the computer deleted all documents from 'my documents' folder, WTF. Then I spend a lot of time trying to recover the documents from cache files, no luck. The documents where still on iCloud (mostly) but on bad connection and maybe some iCloud/computer problems at that time could not get them synched and needed those files. What a frustration. This was many years ago, maybe things have improved, but still today I do not understand how iCloud works, so it is not a service for me. I do pay for google drive though, it is very understandable service.


There is so much to unpack here, I don't know if I have the energy to tackle it right now.

I'll say these few points;
At Apple there is a saying, slow down to speed up. In your situation the documents sync with iCloud could totally have been avoided if you took the time to read before clicking. I'm pretty sure we're all tech savvy in this industry but we at times tend to overlook these sort of things. Maybe in a rush or just bad luck. Don't turn on Desktop or Documents. It's too easy to forget what you have in those places and that very quickly bottlenecks your iCloud capacity.

So do you have the solution, how to move big number of selected files from iPhone to computer directory without a 3rd party SW, or you just go with the flow, get bigger memory when the previous iPhone gets full and/or iCloud?


Yeah I use Airdrop. It's stupid fast.

Another major issue you can avoid is DON'T WAIT 4 YEARS!!!! till you remove your content. Do them in batches every few months. Totally avoids issues like these. Just like your email accounts, keep them clean and organised. Makes life easier.

I don't use the Photos app on my Macs at all. It can be useful for some, but I really don't need it.

I'd far rather buy a 1tb USB3 drive every few years and just throw all my photos and videos on there. Sorting them by month or year etc. I think the Photos app is a good tool, just not one I find myself needing.

Please take these points as helpful friendly ones. No ill intent is meant at all.

As for the iPhone 13 Pro Max. Damn I'm so impressed with the cinematic mode in video. That post focus ability is amazing in my opinion. The video the phone produces for me is great. Nice bright monitor, 3 lens options. Prores coming. I'm totally stoked on my purchase. upgraded from the iPhone 8. So it was a massive one for me and the video stabilisation!!! Damn! really can't compare this phone to the BM cameras. But when it comes to capturing those Spontaneous life moments, I think you'll capture more on a phone. And that's where it becomes invaluable to me. Keep adding more awesome features to these phones I say. At the end of the day, the "filmmakers/photographers eye" is what people will pay for.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 8:20 am

All what you say goes with RAW perfectly.
You can record compressed RAW, with huge amount of dynamic metadata ( including eg. some info which later speeds up processing) etc. In such a case RAW data makes most sense. You can shift a lot of existing chip processing into other tasks ( like noise profiling). We waste a lot of in-camera power to develop RAW. You can skip some processing and have way longer recording due to saved energy.
RAW is just a B&W with known pattern. There are definitely ways to improve compression on RAW, but no one really explored it yet ( maybe because of stupid RED patent). There are no studies how much you can compress RAW before you start start having issue debayering it. You can definitely go very high ( not just current eg 12:1) using codecs like h265. RAW doesn’t have to be linked with top quality. You can store heavily compressed RAW as well they way how you store 100mbit final video now.
RAW is not your enemy in what you describing. It would only help ( but unfair RED patent blocking all of it).
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 8:35 am

Damn! really can't compare this phone to the BM cameras. But when it comes to capturing those Spontaneous life moments, I think you'll capture more on a phone. And that's where it becomes invaluable to me. Keep adding more awesome features to these phones I say. At the end of the day, the "filmmakers/photographers eye" is what people will pay for.


Exactly. Please ask Apple to stop making this crazy advertising about PRO and that now iPhone is a cinematic tool etc. It’s not. It’s as you described it: great tool for capturing spontaneous moments.
Maybe they will listen to you :D
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:02 am

Not sure if you understand what RAW video is.
ProResRAW is like any other RAW and it's what I'm describing. It's just compressed RAW pixels data (with some needed metadata). That's it.

4x oversampling or not is irrelevant. You can store all oversampled pixels (then there is a lot of data), or 'average' them and then store (still as RAW), so there is less to store. Not a problem. You can do either. If you have few sensors then this make RAW data definitely bigger.

Uncompressed RAW is 3x less data then debayered one- this is why we like RAW. It's 1 B&W plane (you can think about it as Y channel from YUV signal).
We can take RAW and compress it as much as needed the same way we compress debayered video. Problem is RED patent which forces people to pay licensing fee (or face patent infringement court case).
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:55 am

Exactly. Can someone make such a video on new iPhone?

Kim Janson wrote:But if the iPhone would have fast USB, it would be possible to attache a bare sensor with lens mount to iPhone and that would open interesting possibilities.

But then it's anymore just compact iPhone body.
Whole things is way more problematic to operate etc.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 11:05 am

Kim Janson wrote:But I guess it is not the direction Apple is interested. They just want to make it good enough for masses and sell millions of them, and have incremental improvements, for the masses to have reason to buy new one. Nothing wrong on that, but kind of sad and missed opportunity for us.


Exactly.
Also- whole modular thing would be actually way more complicated than your "optimistic" description.

Missed opportunity, hmm...? It's just something which anyone can do, but it's faaaar from easy, so no one really wants to even try. RED is a good example.

What Apple has done it's all fine and pushes things further. I just have no idea why they trying to sell all of it as something which it's not! No idea why they try so hard (sometimes with ridiculous outcomes) to sell it as PRO/cinematic feature instead of telling it's an amazing ability for an average iPhone user. Absolutely no idea what they are trying to achieve. So far I would say it worked actually against them, but somehow their marketing department with every new version keeps going further into this crap.
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John Brawley

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:11 pm

Kim Janson wrote:This seems to have many good points, except he is obsessed with 24 fps and Apple did absolutely the right choice with 30 fps as the content will anyway be viewed on 60 Hz monitors mostly.



This makes no sense. It's been like this for years. Computer monitors have always been 60Hz+. Many TV's in 50Hz power environments are as well.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:28 pm

The 16" MacBook Pro has adjustable refresh rates.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:33 pm

Is iPhone restricted to fixed 30fps in cinema mode? I though it's up to 30fps, due to processing power limits. If it's 30fps only then it's definitely a PRO feature for famous directors :lol:

Most TVs (or good monitors) are multi refresh rate, so not a problem. Better new TVs are VRR (variable refresh rate) so can dynamically sync to given signal at any rate up to some max limit (eg. 120).
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:35 pm

JonPais wrote:The 16" MacBook Pro has adjustable refresh rates.
Screen Shot 2021-09-27 at 8.29.05 PM.png


Including 2x23.976Hz and 2x24Hz which his actually a nice touch.
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Uli Plank

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 2:14 pm

With FiLMiC Pro you can get other frame rates (at least on my SE II).
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 4:11 pm

Uli Plank wrote:With FiLMiC Pro you can get other frame rates (at least on my SE II).


My main question is, does Filmic Pro actually record true 24p, or does it do an on-the-fly conversion from 30p?
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Uli Plank

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 5:51 pm

It doesn't look like any fast conversion I know.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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rick.lang

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 8:43 pm

Here’s some food for thought regarding video on the iPhone 13 published today in an AppleInsider article on a blog with Apple representatives:

"This really speaks to the amount of processing power in the iPhone, and in fact we've got so much processing power now that we're able to take these same computational [still] photography techniques and introduce them in the video world to bring computational videography."

"Really, we are now applying all of the same machine learning magic we learned in stills to video." McCormack says the iPhone now "segments each frame in real-time, and we process the sky and the skin and foliage individually, and this takes our already industry-leading video and makes it even better by giving us better clarity and more detail in different parts of the image.”
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:07 pm

Kim Janson wrote:
So kudos for Apple for making 30 fps only.


You don't get it- they made it for pro cinematographers no average iPhone users :lol:
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:10 pm

rick.lang wrote:"Really, we are now applying all of the same machine learning magic we learned in stills to video." McCormack says the iPhone now "segments each frame in real-time, and we process the sky and the skin and foliage individually, and this takes our already industry-leading video and makes it even better by giving us better clarity and more detail in different parts of the image.”


Great- we already had that with one of the Chinese brands (if I'm correct) and the moon. You take photo of the moon and it "makes it better" by filling with more details from better photos. Amazing technology :roll:
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Kim Janson wrote:the iPad pro 120 Hz screen is super nice, it removes the pain of 24 fps on youtube.

Even if the laptop supports 48 Hz who goes to change that to see 24 fps video. On TV it happens automatically, not on computers.



This is just shows poor state of industry and lack of innovation (even if it's so simple).
If you used good open source players on Windows then you would know that they can do it automatically (been doing it for years). There is also such a support in some pro tools like Flame or Scratch.

If Apple introduced different refresh rates for built-in screens recently (this is new thing as my older 16 inch model doesn't do it) then there must be some use for it.
Are you sure latest QT X doesn't adjust refresh rate (or FCP X)?

update: looks like they ask you to do it manually (very modern way)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:46 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:With FiLMiC Pro you can get other frame rates (at least on my SE II).


My main question is, does Filmic Pro actually record true 24p, or does it do an on-the-fly conversion from 30p?


Based on this:
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-13 ... ing-video/

you can choose fps, but not in cinematic mode.
Big applause for Apple. Cinematic modes shapes to be an amazing feature- just exactly opposite to what Apple tried to advertise it as :lol:
Bottle of Polish vodka for someone who can explain me why Apple advertising is so 'strange'?
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Sep 28, 2021 3:17 am

Low light capability has been making steady progress, too, especially now with larger sensor and faster lens.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 4:47 pm

I don’t care how good the new iPhone is, it’s not going to replace a real camera for me. iPhone indies have always been about getting hype, not about proving that the phone is a pro media. I remember last year when Mythic Quest did their pandemic lockdown episode they had to convince Apple that iPhone was good enough, and they were just using it for webcam look. Apple won’t be mandating their big budget shows shooting on the phone any time soon.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Curtis Campsall wrote:I don’t care how good the new iPhone is, it’s not going to replace a real camera for me. iPhone indies have always been about getting hype, not about proving that the phone is a pro media. I remember last year when Mythic Quest did their pandemic lockdown episode they had to convince Apple that iPhone was good enough, and they were just using it for webcam look. Apple won’t be mandating their big budget shows shooting on the phone any time soon.
I hear you! I also remember when people have said the same about Blackmagic cameras


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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 10:29 pm

Kim Janson wrote:A true pro cinematographer would know not to post 24 fps on youtube, as there is nothing cinematic on 24 fps on 60 hz monitor, that is what most youtube watchers use.

Apple knows the iPhone Videos will be watched mostly on 60 Hz monitors.

Someone should make a test with two groups recognised cinematographers, and wannabe cinematographers to show videos shot with two same camera and lens next to each other, but one 24 fps 180 degree shutter angle and other 30 fps 225 degree, but other-ways exactly same camera settings, edited exactly the same, but 24 fps on 24 fps timeline and 30 fps on 30 fps timeline.

First show those on 120 Hz display and ask which one is 24 fps. If this test was done correctly, alternating the left and right camera between shots and making many shots and not shooting on artificial 50 Hz or 60 Hz light, I bet not many if any could tell.

Then show the same on 60 Hz monitor and ask which one is better. A true cinematographer would of course recognise 24 fps judder on 60 Hz, and hopefully tell 30 fps is better on this monitor, but I am afraid many would think the 24 fps on 60 Hz is the cinematographic look as that is what they have learned.

Ps. the monitors we have these days do not blank between screen updates, or do that very fast at least. The 24 FPS projectors had shutter to blank the screen when next frame was moved on its place. On 120 Hz monitor a single 24 FPS frame is shown 5 times, so to mimic the cinematic experience maybe one or 2 of these frames should be black, but is that experience really what we want?

Edit: looking a bit deeper to the 24 FPS projector operation, it seems actually 96 Hz display would be ideal to mimic it and every second image black. So maybe this should be the reference for the above test with the question is this what we really want instead of the 30fps on 60 Hz.

Screenshot 2021-09-28 at 7.26.36.jpg



Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:
So kudos for Apple for making 30 fps only.


You don't get it- they made it for pro cinematographers no average iPhone users :lol:
24fps and the seven second panning rule were fine for 48-nit theatrical presentation; when it comes to today’s brighter, more contrasty, high resolution displays, not so much.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 12:41 pm

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 4:03 pm

It's what it's- an artificial blur done in realtime one chip. It's far from perfect and it may never be perfect as creating perfect mask is crazy difficult.
There are case where it looks okish, but on average it's faaaar from been acceptable for pro cinematographers.
Add fact it's only for HD. Even youtubers want today UHD :)
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 02, 2021 3:15 am

John Brawley wrote:I worked on the second season of the morning show.


Ironically, I snapped the attached photo of JB's "The Morning Show" credit with my old iPhone 6, so sue me. :-)

The show looks great (of course), John!

Cheers.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 3:59 am

Some interesting info on Cinematic Mode over at Twitter.

https://twitter.com/jankais3r/status/14 ... 3697489923

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 9:45 am

You have your map so now can do what you want with it in any tool.
It’s just low resolution as Handrick predicted.
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New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 5:00 pm

Filmic Pro ProRes 422 HQ 10bit UHD, on an iPhone Pro Max with 1TB storage. ProRes Proxy, ProRes LT, ProRes 422, and ProRes HQ available.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/10/05/ ... mpressive/
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 5:06 pm

ProRes or not iPhone video is so "processed". What one would like from Filmic Pro is to be able to disable at least some of this "auto" processing, but this may not be possible at all.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 11:17 pm

Not for every shooting situation, but certainly may not be fair to say “not for any shot.”
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 2:52 am

Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 3:09 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's the reason why an army of YouTubers, Twitchers and podcasters are driving sales of the Pocket 4K. Blackmagic has met their goals by wisely choosing the pricing strategy for the target market.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 9:18 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I don’t believe Apple improves cameras in iPhone with goal of making it a “pro” camera. They perfectly know it never will be.
They just use this as marketing strategy. Big words, more buzz, but I don’t really see it’s working and driving iPhone sales much further. They could easily use other strategy ( real iPhone buyers orientated ). You could easily present cinematic mode in more optimal way than trying to pretend it’s for pro world. At least for me it has very opposite effect. Whole thing is about meaningless because when it come to core sales reasons this feature represent about no meaning. Better cameras overall for sure, but cinematic mode itself is a gimmick for average iPhone user ( same as pretending it’s pro feature).
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:28 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I don’t believe Apple improves cameras in iPhone with goal of making it a “pro” camera. They perfectly know it never will be.
They just use this as marketing strategy. Big words, more buzz, but I don’t really see it’s working and driving iPhone sales much further. They could easily use other strategy ( real iPhone buyers orientated ). You could easily present cinematic mode in more optimal way than trying to pretend it’s for pro world. At least for me it has very opposite effect. Whole thing is about meaningless because when it come to core sales reasons this feature represent about no meaning. Better cameras overall for sure, but cinematic mode itself is a gimmick for average iPhone user ( same as pretending it’s pro feature).
By next year, experts say video viewing will account for 88% of all internet traffic. Companies that track such things have seen an explosion in the creation of short form video content creation and consumption (including Google) since the pandemic. We see videos uploaded to YT Shorts, just one of many such apps, raking in tens of millions of views. Surveys also show that the camera is a key feature consumers consider when purchasing a smartphone. Offering better low light capabilities, more faithful color reproduction, stabilized video and the ability to blur the background differentiate phones in a highly competitive market. Over 90% of purchasers are looking for a good camera. Six years ago, 62% of smartphone buyers were reported to have been influenced by the review videos on YouTube. That number has since exploded. And what are influencers talking about? For sure, cinematic mode! Several of the ones I myself watched showed how much better the iPhone 13 was at capturing photo and video of their children and spouses over competing brands. Apparently demand for the new iPhone 13 range has even seen Taiwan-based camera component suppliers give priority to Apple over Samsung, and Chinese phone companies. Sales of the iPhone 13 in China are through the roof.
Last edited by JonPais on Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:37 am

Yes, but all of this is outside from pro film industry, yet Apple's idea of selling it is by inviting pro cinematographers etc. For me it's not the best marketing (you could do something which would speak to more average iPhone users), but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe iPhone users believe they can become pro cinematographers :lol: So many of them buy new model even if the absolutely don't need it anyway, so...

Btw..answering original thread question. Of course iPhone is better than BM camera. It can do calls and tons of other things :lol:
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:42 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Yes, but all of this is outside from pro film industry, yet Apple's idea of selling it is by inviting pro cinematographers etc. For me it's not the best marketing (you could do something which would speak to more average iPhone users), but maybe I'm wrong.
Not sure what ads you watched, but the YouTube ads have been watched and shared tens of millions of times for sure. If you really think the appeal of those ads is strictly to pro filmmakers, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:48 am

None of it apples to pro cinematographers- this is exactly the point.
And for audience which it meant to appeal there could be better way of advertising it, I think.

Today's marketing campaigns are based on massive research and science, so maybe Apple done their homework and they feed their audience with things which trigger them the most. Very often in such a studies you get big surprises how people react on certain things, so I may be very wrong.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:00 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:None of it apples to pro cinematographers- this is exactly the point.
And for audience which it meant to appeal there could be better way of advertising it, I think.

Todays marketing campaigns are based on massive research and science, so maybe Apple done their homework and they feed their audience with things which trigger them the most. Very often in such a studies you get big surprises how people react on certain things.
You tell me. Here are a few snippets from a Google search:

"As of September 24, the first day of the iPhone 13 series on the market, the sales on JD Daojia, an e-commerce platform, increased by 470 percent, compared to the iPhone 12 on the first day sales, exceeding 800 units in one hour...", "Hot demand for iPhone 13 in China crashes Apple website", "survey data cited by the Information indicates that Apple is expected to gain more market share in the United States as Android manufacturers are hit harder by ongoing chip shortages", "Apple remains in the midst of its strongest overall product cycle in roughly a decade", "Apple reports a 50% year-over-year jump in iPhone sales".
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:16 am

And you think this is due to fake blur called "cinematic mode" and its amazing video which presented it?

I think it's because iPhone is simply a good phone and because huge part of Apple audience will replace a phone regardless if they need it or not. It's not necessarily telling a good thing about Apple fans though :lol:
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:29 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:And you think this is due to fake blur called "cinematic mode" and its amazing video which presented it?

I think it's because iPhone is simply a good phone and because huge part of Apple audience will replace a phone regardless if they need it or not. It's not necessarily telling a good thing about Apple fans though :lol:
Apple, Samsung and Google have all made the camera the centerpiece of their marketing, dude.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:34 am

Because about rest of the phones is good enough (been good enough for few years already).
They have to feed people with something new to sell more.
Cameras are better in new iPhone which is cool, but is cinematic mode a key selling point? Doubt it. If you read net opinions about it they are actually not so great (specially coming from those who it was most likely designed for).

As for you selling numbers. It's mainly an initial euphoria, as surveys are not so optimistic:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/05/us ... e-watch-7/

also key reason to update are: 120Hz screen and battery life (things which actually matter and give real benefits).
If Apple made battery life 50% better and had no cinematic mode at all it would sell 1000s time more.
Cinematic mode in about meaningless in bigger picture. Simple USB-C port inclusion would crush cinematic mode feature.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:48 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Because about rest of the phones is good enough (been good enough for few years already).
They have to feed people with something new to sell more.
Cameras are better in new iPhone which is cool, but is cinematic mode a key selling point? Doubt it. If you read net opinions about it they are actually not so great (specially coming from those who it was most likely designed for).

As for you selling numbers. It's mainly an initial euphoria, as surveys are not so optimistic:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/05/us ... e-watch-7/
The iPhone 13 has the best smartphone camera of any manufacturer according to practically every single tech website. SellCell comes out with a new survey every week. In August, they were writing that as many as 44 percent of iPhone users intend to upgrade to an iPhone 13. LOL
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 1:23 pm

All down to initial buzz.
Best bits are probably 120Hz and new cameras (and bit better batter life).
It just shows you that all what Apple really needs is to release phone with eg. 50% better battery life and it will be already huge sales push. No gimmicks needed.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 6:06 am

An episode of Apple TV+ comedy Mythic Quest - which received extraordinarily high audience approval ratings and was hailed by some critics as among the smartest workplace comedies on television - was shot remotely using dozens of iPhones, apparently to great success.

Creator and star Rob McElhenney spoke with co-creator Megan Ganz and executive producer and co-star David Hornsby about trying to shoot something in quarantine, but only if they could do it without lowering their standards.

“We wanted make sure we didn’t have to apologize for the quality,” McElhenney said, both in terms of coming up with story lines that felt both funny and emotionally honest enough to be “respectful” to the suffering that people are going through, and in terms of the actual audio and video quality. “We want people to look back to this on the platform in five years and think that they made this in the studio,” he said.

"If you’re making a show for Apple TV+, there’s the added benefit of getting all the Apple tech you want. On a conference call with “the people in Cupertino,” McElhenney said, he suggested that each member of the cast would need three iPhones each to film their scenes. They’d shoot with one phone, then sterilize it and put it in a secure area outside their apartment or home, where it’d be picked up by a courier, brought to an editor, sterilized again, uploaded to Avid editing software, and then sent back to the actor. By cycling through cameras continuously, while also editing the episode together, the work could be done much faster. “I said, ‘If it’s possible to get 40 iPhones and 20 sets of AirPods, could you have them to us by the end of the week?’” McElhenney said. “There was a rep on the phone, and she said she’d already tracked them down, and would have them sent to my house by 5 o’clock.”

Reviewers went so far as to proclaim the show a huge technical achievement, setting the bar for remotely filmed sitcoms. Sounds like Apple does work very closely with the producers of their shows after all, which should come as no surprise. What would be shocking would be if they didn't.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:26 am

Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Rolling shutter of iPhone 13 Pro: the main camera comes to a very good 6.8ms, the ultra-wide angle and the telephoto camera even create excellent 5ms. Pocket 6K 19.8 ms.

Comparison: Debayering

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.56.46 PM.jpg
iPhone 13
Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.56.46 PM.jpg (335.95 KiB) Viewed 14665 times

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.57.02 PM.jpg
Blackmagic Pocket 6K
Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.57.02 PM.jpg (377.24 KiB) Viewed 14665 times
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:12 pm

JonPais wrote:An episode of Apple TV+ comedy Mythic Quest - which received extraordinarily high audience approval ratings and was hailed by some critics as among the smartest workplace comedies on television -
...

Reviewers went so far as to proclaim the show a huge technical achievement, setting the bar for remotely filmed sitcoms.


The entire post sounds like a publicity release, verbatim. "Extraordinarly high approval" or "huge technical achievement"? Says who?

What exactly are you selling here? How many "remotely filmed sitcoms" are there, who wants to make them, and you really need an iphone do it?

A phone can shoot nice footage, under some circumstances. What's so important about all this?
Last edited by John Paines on Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:19 pm

That episode stands out from others and not not as a better one for sure.
I don't really get why iPhone here is so important bit either. You could shot it with other phone with good cameras as well. All just pr buzz, not that much more.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:23 pm

JonPais wrote:Rolling shutter of iPhone 13 Pro: the main camera comes to a very good 6.8ms, the ultra-wide angle and the telephoto camera even create excellent 5ms. Pocket 6K 19.8 ms.

Comparison: Debayering

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.56.46 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.57.02 PM.jpg


This shows you that RAW our of phones would solve a lot of issues and make footage from them a way better.
You also have more processing power left for other fancy bits (like cinematic mode etc.). Those should be saved as dynamic metadata and used later. Unfortunately a lot of industry keeps so outdated way of thinking.
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