Hyperprimes or microprimes?

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Travis Hodgkinson

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Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostMon Oct 18, 2021 1:59 pm

Will this lens be suitable on the URSA 12K?
APO HyperPrime CINE 50mm T2.1
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostMon Oct 18, 2021 3:22 pm

I REALLY like my APO Microprimes in PL mount. They can quickly be adapted to EF with an adapter and they are smaller. They also have a shorter focus throw.
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rick.lang

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostMon Oct 18, 2021 4:35 pm

Here is an example of the focus throw on the SLR Magic original T2.1 32mm from 4’ to infinity with the final witness mark at 60’.

I’d be interested in seeing the comparable witness marks for the MicroPrime at the same focal length.
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostTue Oct 19, 2021 7:26 pm

32mm APO Microprime has witness marks starting from 15" and the last mark before infinity is 30'. This is the PL model, but in these photos the EF mount adaptor is attached.
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rick.lang

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Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostTue Oct 19, 2021 8:08 pm

Thank you, Jamie. The nearest witness mark on the original APO 32mm is 16” and the barrel rotates to about 15 ½” so similar near and far marks. Here is the original from 2’ to 4’ with marks at identical distances:
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostWed Oct 20, 2021 12:17 am

Between the Hyper and Micro, is it really just the focus rotation amount? 300' vs 150'
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostWed Oct 20, 2021 12:28 am

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Between the Hyper and Micro, is it really just the focus rotation amount? 300' vs 150'
That and the weight/size difference. Otherwise, same.
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Oct 21, 2021 3:09 am

Awesome, thanks for the clarification :)
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Oct 21, 2021 4:14 am

I do wonder if there could be a difference in the focus breathing, but don't have an APO Hyperprime to compare head to head. Has anyone compared the two versions this way?
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Dec 16, 2021 12:01 pm

Need help deciding which route to go :)

Micros or Hypers.

Does it make sense to get the PL version with the EF adapter? In the event of slapping it on other bodies.

Also why is the price of the 85mm Hyper so much more than the 50mm?
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Dec 16, 2021 12:07 pm

Are the Hyperprimes rated for 8k or 6k sensors. There seems to be a lot of contradicting information out there.
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Frank Engel

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Dec 16, 2021 12:33 pm

In what format?

Checking the web site (https://www.slrmagic.com/apomicroprime), manufacturer claims suitable for 8K "full-frame", presumably the typical poor marketing lingo for 135 format.

Assuming true 8K (DCI format) of 8192x4320 (as they do not appear to specify the actual resolution they have in mind for that spec), the 135 format has a sensor size of 36x24 mm, which when cropped to DCI aspect works out to about 36x19mm; in any case, it suggests a pixel size of about 4.4 µm.

The super 35 format has a frame size of 24.89x14mm; cropping to the same DCI aspect and using the 4.4 µm pixel size as a reference, this suggests the lens might cover something like 5663x2986 (roughly 5.5K) in super 35.

The 4/3 format has a frame size of 18×13.5 mm, so with the same crop and pixel size, this suggests coverage of 4096x2160 (4K DCI) in [micro] 4/3 format.


Note that I made several guesses here - such as cameras capturing crops from the actual format (rather than having specialized sensors with a larger area obtained by matching the image circle with a different aspect ratio) and the DCI format ratios and resolutions (as opposed to broadcast resolutions in a 16:9 aspect or similar, or a 2:1 ratio or other currently less common shooting format). Any of those things could throw off these calculations if the actuality is any different.
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John Brawley

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Dec 16, 2021 2:12 pm

APO Hyperprimes are no longer being made (I believe)

SLR Magic have changed over to making the APO microprimes only.

I have both versions, and its hard to make a lot of conclusions (to A/B compare) because my micros are a very very early prototype.

Andrew tells me that the glass is exactly the same. They have a huge supply of glass for the full size APOs hoping they would sell a lot more than they have and they switched to micros, they are just using the same stockpile of glass.

There is also no such thing as 8k or 6K resolution on any lens. Optics don't work that way. I mean what's the resolution on a pinhole lens? It's just air and no glass....

The Micros are very very good, and I rate them the same as the full size. I'm lucky enough to have both and mostly I'm using the micros.

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Ryan Earl

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostThu Dec 16, 2021 10:30 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Are the Hyperprimes rated for 8k or 6k sensors. There seems to be a lot of contradicting information out there.


If you try them on the Ursa 12K, with the 50mm for example, I see more detail in 12K than 8K with low compression. If you go PL, a single EF adapter is really handy and the whole set works great on 135mm too. I use them quite a bit on the Canon 5Ds.

The Micros work well with the Anamorphot-65 too if you're looking to experiment with that. It's only $200 extra if you order it with one of lenses as a set on slrmagic.com. I think I paid $700-800 for mine at B&H.
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostFri Dec 17, 2021 2:17 am

Thank you guys for the info.
Interesting about glass not being rated for certain resolutions. Must be more marketing schemes.

I think with the hypers potentially not being made any more, I’ll opt for the micros. Can’t seem to find them in PL here in Australia which is a bummer though.
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John Brawley

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostFri Dec 17, 2021 2:37 am

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Thank you guys for the info.
Interesting about glass not being rated for certain resolutions. Must be more marketing schemes.

I think with the hypers potentially not being made any more, I’ll opt for the micros. Can’t seem to find them in PL here in Australia which is a bummer though.



You should be able to go direct to SLR magic. They are “only” in Hong Kong.

I should add, I think they COULD be made, but they’re being made to order rather than being made in batches to go out and sit on shelves.

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Uli Plank

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostFri Dec 17, 2021 2:51 am

Glass is not rated for resolutions like 12K or 8K or whatever, but in line pairs per mm. Some manufacturers publish such information in great detail (e.g. Zeiss). Others just tell you resolution limit, which doesn't correlate very well with perceived resolution.
See Otto Schade's research, for example referenced in this excellent paper: http://www.corporacionvideo.com/pdfdoc/ ... nar_02.pdf

So, if you want to get even close to the resolution of 12K, use the sharpest glass you can find and expose it at it's best f-stop. Normally around f 5.6, maybe around 4 for fast glass. This is for S-35, larger sensors may look sharper at f 8, since you are further from diffraction at the same sensel density.

OTOH, if you want beautiful shots, use glass with the characteristics that fit the emotion and simply don't care :-)

Any lens that can be adapted to the UMP 12K without extra glass involved will do then. I liked the look of a vintage Pentax Takumar 55mm f 1.8 on the 12K and resolution wasn't too bad either. Great for portrait on S-35. If you want razor sharpness for cheap, get the Sigma 18-35mm. A bit bland for my taste.

I admit that this post is getting a bit off-topic. If you want at set for cine work, the lenses John is referencing are some of the best you can get for a very decent price.
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostFri Dec 17, 2021 4:10 am

John Brawley wrote: The Micros are very very good, and I rate them the same as the full size. I'm lucky enough to have both and mostly I'm using the micros.

JB
JB, have you seen any difference in focus breathing between your APO hyperprimes vs the APO microprimes?
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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostMon Dec 20, 2021 12:47 pm

JB[/quote] JB, have you seen any difference in focus breathing between your APO hyperprimes vs the APO microprimes?[/quote]

FWIW Just ordered a set of the APO Micros myself, and I asked Andrew this very question, he claims they're identical in breathing, and also in flaring & look.
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rick.lang

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostTue Dec 21, 2021 1:41 am

Did Andrew comment on any new lenses for the original APO family? Years ago it was intended that 18mm and 135mm primes would be added.
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Barry Murphy

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Re: Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostWed Dec 22, 2021 7:03 pm

rick.lang wrote:Did Andrew comment on any new lenses for the original APO family? Years ago it was intended that 18mm and 135mm primes would be added.


18mm is in the works, just being held up with delays due to Covid travel restrictions and also supply chain interruptions.

135mm is also in the pipeline after the 18mm, most likely in the APO Hyperprime family according to Andrew.

The APO Hyperprimes are still very much alive, but existing parts to make stock are running low, hence the 25mm is temporarily unavailable as they have ran out of components to make it. How long it might take for the next batch of components to arrive is anyone's guess, but Andrew is hoping it will be within the next 6 months.
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rick.lang

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Hyperprimes or microprimes?

PostWed Dec 22, 2021 8:06 pm

Thank you, Barry. So definitely not forgotten. I’m tempted to leave the versatile Fujinon 20x7.8 BRM on the UM4.6K for events and theatrical material for the foreseeable future, but if and when I get back to narrative work, it’s still likely to make use of the SLR Magic APO original primes regardless of the camera I use. Maybe mid-year?
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