Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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LAEyekon

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Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostTue May 24, 2022 12:11 am

I am trying to live stream as well as mirror to a megatron aka led wall at a concert. This is my first time doing this sort of scenario. Simple 3 camera set up with audio coming from sound mixer at concert.
I do realize i shouldn't have hdmis longer than 20ish feet
I'm gonna use sdi via black magic converters for anything that is long distance.
But my main issue is that I need to stream to YouTube as well as reflect to the big screen at concert.
Any advice or equipment recommendations for switcher ???
Help me please lol
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RichardJolly

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostTue May 24, 2022 4:23 am

I would recommend the ATEM Mini Pro Extreme, 8 x inputs, streaming to YouTube of Programme (i.e. main) mix from within the mixer, HDMI 1 output set to multiview (or can be set in software to any input), 2nd HDMI output separately switchable on the front panel (which can simply be set to Programme if required, i.e. to send to video wall. USB-C 1 record output direct to SSD via SATA cable (or Hyperdeck with 2 x SSDs), USB-C 2 output to laptop for backup recording and software control, all in a small footprint. If you have Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras 4K or 6K the mixer HDMI input will also send tally information back to the cameras; you set the camera number in the Bidirectional Converter using software. I've used this via Blackmagic Birectional Converters and SDI in and out cables to send tally to Blackmagic Studio Cameras. In this setup you can also add talk TO the camera by inserting a Blackmagic Audio to SDI embedder to the SDI out path and selecting channels 15 and 16 in the DIP switches. (You can also use a cheap second-hand Blackmagic SDI to Analogue Mini Converter to de-embed talkback at the other end (though you'd still have to convert from line level to headphone level - in the camera perhaps?), or to de-embed talkback FROM a Studio Camera, simply looping the SDI through the converter (the analogue output is redundant)). Someone else will have to comment on exactly what is the setup with Pocket Cinema Cameras via 2 x Bidirectional Converters and SDI cables.

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Frank Engel

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostTue May 24, 2022 4:09 pm

Will the cameras be far enough away from the switcher that you would need converters for those as well?

Are the cameras themselves SDI or HDMI?

Will you be adding graphics from a computer (lyrics, logos, etc.) beyond a small number of stills that could be handled using the built-in media player on the switcher itself?

Does the LED wall take an HDMI or an SDI input?

How long is the cable stretch from the switcher to that connection for the LED wall?


Something to consider is that each converter in the path will add a tiny amount of delay to the signal. If you have HDMI cameras and run through an HDMI -> SDI -> HDMI path with two converts, you have those two delays, plus the additional cost of the converters. If one camera is close enough that you can skip the converters, the timing will be slightly off from the other cameras (as it won't have the delay from a matching pair of converters).

Rack up enough converters and you may be better off using SDI gear from the beginning - one of the SDI-based switcher models - to not only avoid the delay of the signal reaching the LED wall (where the delay will be most obvious to those present in the room) but also the cost and added points of failure of all the converters in the mix.

If you need to feed graphics for overlay from a computer, depending on the setup you might wind up needing to use an UltraStudio or DeckLink type of interface, which will provide two SDI feeds to the switcher, yet another pair of converters, to provide the fill and key signals.
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LAEyekon

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostTue May 24, 2022 5:45 pm

1 camera will be far from switcher and i was assuming i might have to do sdi...
the other 2 will not be and be ran via hdmi.

is there a way to compensate for the delay ?
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Frank Engel

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostTue May 24, 2022 11:18 pm

In looking it up again to get the details, I am reminded that only a few models add a delay of any significance, so depending on which model you use you might be ok.

If you do have one with a delay, the only way to compensate is to delay the others to match, possibly by using matching units with them or by using a ($$$) dedicated video delay unit.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostWed May 25, 2022 5:17 am

LAEyekon wrote:I am trying to live stream as well as mirror to a megatron aka led wall at a concert.


I think the term you're looking for is "Jumbotron", they were the Kleenex of LED 20 years ago.

Any of the Atem Minis are going to be a poor choice in this situation. The Constellation 1 ME has 10 SDI ins, 6 SDI outs, webcam, and multi view.

Good Luck
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LouisBacker

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostWed May 25, 2022 4:00 pm

In a live show situation and with the big responsibility of outputting to a large LED screen, avoid a system reliant upon HDMI connections. They're easy to dislodge. SDI cables are a much safer bet.

I recommend the all-in-one ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K for vision mixing, then ingest into a Mac/PC via Thunderbolt 3+ using a Blackmagic UltraStudio Recorder and stream via OBS. Dead easy, I do it frequently.
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Cybershadow

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostFri May 27, 2022 1:18 pm

LouisBacker wrote:In a live show situation and with the big responsibility of outputting to a large LED screen, avoid a system reliant upon HDMI connections. They're easy to dislodge. SDI cables are a much safer bet.

I recommend the all-in-one ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K for vision mixing, then ingest into a Mac/PC via Thunderbolt 3+ using a Blackmagic UltraStudio Recorder and stream via OBS. Dead easy, I do it frequently.


The TVS Pro HD and 4k have already been taken off the Blackmagic website. I can imagine they will be replaced by new models later this year. They're quite dated and their features are limited.

If you don't need the 4K capability, the Mini Extreme is the better choice for live streaming in almost every aspect. We're running it for over a year now with SDI input and a bunch of micro converters and haven't had any issue ever since. If you do it right, you'll not yank the HDMI cable out by accident.

Converters won't add a considerable amount of delay, a few lines at most. Most of the delay (up to one frame) will be introduced by the switcher resyncing the inputs. You'd have to use genlock on cameras, switcher and LED wall to eliminate this, which in fact requires an SDI switcher.

If you really need to have a switcher with SDI inputs, the 1 M/E Constellation HD, a Web Presenter HD and an Elgato Stream Deck XL with Bitfocus Companion as control surface would be my weapons of choice.
Greetings from Hamburg, Germany
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Jim Simon

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Re: Which atem model do you recommend - concert gig.

PostMon May 30, 2022 6:48 pm

I switch concerts a couple dozen times a year. I have the Mini Pro, Extreme and 4K Studio switchers to choose. I always choose the 4K.

All our cameras have SDI out, and the runs are long. Plus I just prefer the panel more than the Mini models. I will often Mix half way between two shots, and having that feature right on the panel is nice. So here's my choice.

ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K
Web Presenter 4K

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