Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

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Gdiddy

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Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 7:45 pm

Hi there, I'm spec'ing out a studio for a client and they've approached me with a very specific request.

They're looking for the following features in a dedicated recording solution.

Recording 4 * UHD ISO signals, synchronised in ProRes. This would be - 3 * cameras and 1 * screen capture from a PC demoing their software production. They want this to be a single device. They want the cameras to be standard production cameras (think FS7) or even better DSLRs (A7s III's). They're also asking for this all to be done via HDMI (already told them it's going to have to be SDI, if it's even possible at an affordable price point).

Is there a Blackmagic device that meets this requirement? I've looked at the datasheets for Blackmagic Design HyperDeck Extreme 8K HDR, and other devices in the range, but I'm pretty lost in the weeds. The recording absolutely must be 4K, and it must be a single device, and the cameras cannot be PTZ / NDI type cameras. They won't accept Blackmagic studio cameras or anything else that doesn't record all the footage directly to a single unit.

Would very much appreciate any help. Thanks!
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rogersuski

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostFri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 pm

Have a look at Softron MovieRecorder, ToolsOnAir just:in
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robertsmu

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 5:24 am

Looks like you need to build a pc with a DeckLink 8K Pro or a DeckLink Quad HDMI Recorder capture card.
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Gdiddy

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 11:27 am

rogersuski wrote:Have a look at Softron MovieRecorder, ToolsOnAir just:in


Looks like both are mac only, and a) there's no obvious way to bring all those video streams into a mac. You could build some kind of PC thunderbolt PC enclosure and stock it with decklinks, but you wouldn't know it would work until after you'd spent the money b) neither website seems to actually confirm it has this feature (4 * UHD ISO).
Last edited by Gdiddy on Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gdiddy

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSat Jul 02, 2022 11:28 am

robertsmu wrote:Looks like you need to build a pc with a DeckLink 8K Pro or a DeckLink Quad HDMI Recorder capture card.


I'm wary of this solution as there's literally no way to confirm the PC will be able to do it successfully over long recordings without dropping frames in advance. Can't find an example of someone doing this online. Hoping there's a hardware solution.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSun Jul 03, 2022 1:17 am

You need to give a prescriptive solution to the client, following their arbitrary requirements is going to get them a worse design. This should not be done with DSLRs, and it should not be done with HDMI. Genlock/frame sync your four inputs so the delay is matched, run them into four UHD decks, and gang record. If they don't want to accept that, don't take the business.
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Gdiddy

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSun Jul 03, 2022 9:51 am

Jack Fairley wrote:You need to give a prescriptive solution to the client, following their arbitrary requirements is going to get them a worse design. This should not be done with DSLRs, and it should not be done with HDMI. Genlock/frame sync your four inputs so the delay is matched, run them into four UHD decks, and gang record. If they don't want to accept that, don't take the business.


Unfortunately it's a consultancy gig, so I'm already being paid to spec this out. I've already taken the business. They're not flexible on requirements, but I think I have a work around. I'm going to try to talk them around to a solution using the Atem Mini Extreme ISO to live mix, and Blackmagic cameras instead of the Sony's they'd prefer, then substituting the final ProRes / BRAW footage in the final Resolve edit (which seems to be possible automatically without timecode or waveform synching).
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Howard Roll

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostSun Jul 03, 2022 4:04 pm

Gdiddy wrote:They're not flexible on requirements


If that's true then Jack's suggestion (simple quantity) makes far more sense than this...

Gdiddy wrote:I'm going to try to talk them around to a solution using the Atem Mini Extreme ISO to live mix, and Blackmagic cameras instead of the Sony's they'd prefer, then substituting the final ProRes / BRAW footage in the final Resolve edit


FYI this workflow doesn't support Prores.

If I ran the zoo (and in-camera capture was an option) I'd use a KiPro Ultra to generate TC for the cams and record the computer feed, for which your solution has no 4K or HQ provision. Then once they realize that they don't actually need 4K they have what they asked for originally.

Good Luck
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roger.suski

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 7:58 am

Macs do support PCI slots, and also external TB3 enclosures, so your interface is merely a BMD capture card. There are integrators who do this sort of thing all of the time (making sure that the hardware and software performs to/above spec)
Softron is Mac only, but the ToolsOnAir solution also supports Linux if you must.
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Gdiddy

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 11:04 pm

roger.suski wrote:Macs do support PCI slots, and also external TB3 enclosures, so your interface is merely a BMD capture card. There are integrators who do this sort of thing all of the time (making sure that the hardware and software performs to/above spec)
Softron is Mac only, but the ToolsOnAir solution also supports Linux if you must.


It's pretty late so I'm not brainworthy to do the math, but my guess is 4 * UHD signals would be higher than the capacity of TB3. The issue is of course, either way there's no way to confirm it would work without frame drops until after you'd built the thing, and purchased a high end enough Mac to do the encoding. That would be a ferociously expensive mistake to make if you were wrong.
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Gdiddy

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostMon Jul 04, 2022 11:09 pm

Howard Roll wrote:
Gdiddy wrote:They're not flexible on requirements


If that's true then Jack's suggestion (simple quantity) makes far more sense than this...

Gdiddy wrote:I'm going to try to talk them around to a solution using the Atem Mini Extreme ISO to live mix, and Blackmagic cameras instead of the Sony's they'd prefer, then substituting the final ProRes / BRAW footage in the final Resolve edit


FYI this workflow doesn't support Prores.

If I ran the zoo (and in-camera capture was an option) I'd use a KiPro Ultra to generate TC for the cams and record the computer feed, for which your solution has no 4K or HQ provision. Then once they realize that they don't actually need 4K they have what they asked for originally.

Good Luck


I'll definitely present 4 * external recorders to them as an option, but not sure what the advantage would be at that point over simply recording to 4 * SSD's on URSAs or similar, and cost would be similar.
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Cybershadow

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Re: Is there a Blackmagic recorder that fits my needs?

PostTue Jul 05, 2022 8:37 am

Gdiddy wrote:not sure what the advantage would be at that point over simply recording to 4 * SSD's on URSAs or similar
  • You can easily synchronize timecode on all recordings and set the decks to resync the inputs thus eliminating any clock drift between sources including the PC.
  • The recording of the PC screen will automatically be in sync with the cameras. No screen recording software and syncing in post necessary.
  • You can pull the recordings from the Hyperdecks via FTP and don't have to fiddle around with SD cards or SSDs.
  • You can start and stop recording of all sources with the press of a single button.
Just to name a few.
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