No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

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Michel Rabe

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 2:24 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Steve Fishwick wrote:It's odd that they call the FX30 a "cinema camera".


I guess "Enthusiast's Online Content Camera" didn't sound appealing enough.
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rick.lang

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 4:53 pm

The NewsShooter has Matthew Allard’s review of the FX30 and it’s an exhaustive (and exhausting to) read, but it does included detailed comparisons to the FX3 and they’re not the same in terms of features. Worth a look for anyone considering a purchase.

Not interested myself. Unable to comprehend why the traditional manufacturers don’t support real 24 and 30 and 60 fps. While pretending they do.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Sep 29, 2022 5:35 pm

John Brawley wrote: Just a 1tb Sony AXS card for a Venice 2 is $4000 if you can get one.

JB


I think this is a bigger ripoff than the camera costs. NAND flash is NAND flash...
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Tim Kraemer

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 1:33 am

John Brawley wrote:I think it could still be very interesting as AF and IBIS is a big deal...

but 10 bit AND a codec that's problematic to work with....pretty big downsides...Typical Sony mentality though....

That's aside from what the actual pictures look like out of it of course...!

JB


You're so shortsighted John. You need to pretend its late 2017, and then suddenly the FX30 becomes a really compelling product. I mean who needs cutting edge features, that's just for nerds, right?
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostFri Sep 30, 2022 6:15 am

The FX30 looks to me like a downstripped A7IV. A bit pricey for that. The only advantage I can assume is less RS.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Chris Cronin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 11:43 am

Yeah, not convinced the FX30 is a "Blackmagic killer" at all.

Alluring as the small form factor is, I regularly have to use an A7III for work and find myself constantly missing things that are a simple given on BM cameras; not least a coherent menu system.
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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 12:15 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The FX30 looks to me like a downstripped A7IV. A bit pricey for that. The only advantage I can assume is less RS.

The A7IV has a 36x24mm sensor and way more RS than the A7sII / FX3 sensor. The 10bit H265 is very good IME. Unbreakable when heavily graded (unlike the Panasonic internal codecs) and never had an issue with PC playback.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pm

The biggest liability of the FX30 is likely the difficulty many will encounter grading slog. The equipment assumes a level of mastery of post-production that the likeliest buyers won't possess, which is true of the market generally now. Or maybe this one is really intended for S-Cinetone shooting.
Last edited by John Paines on Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 2:21 pm

If you shoot the A7IV in crop mode, I doubt that there's that much more RS.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:50 pm

FX30 looks nice but no shutter angle on a cinema line camera with multiple frame rates is just silly.
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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm

John Paines wrote:The biggest liability of the FX30 is likely the difficulty many will encounter grading slog. The equipment assumes a level of mastery of post-production that the likeliest buyers won't possess, which is true of the market generally now. Or maybe this one is really intended for S-Cinetone shooting.

Slog is no more difficult to grade than any other log IME and as you say there is cinetone or REC709/2020 and may other profiles (loads infact) for straight to delivery uses.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:02 pm

Well, I think it *is* more difficult. But slog aside, log itself is not well understood at this end of the market. Incorrectly normalized footage is still commonplace, with results worse than you'd expect from a point and shoot. Typical buyers at this end of the market don't often have post-production experience.
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:12 pm

The biggest problem with Sony's Slog is lack of linearity in Slog-2 and Slog-3 being too flat for a 10 bit codec in most scenes. And then, Slog-3 in an 8 bit codec is sheer crap.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:32 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The biggest problem with Sony's Slog is lack of linearity in Slog-2 and Slog-3 being too flat for a 10 bit codec in most scenes. And then, Slog-3 in an 8 bit codec is sheer crap.

Never use S-LOG 2 (who does these days) and haven't found 3 too flat for 10bit at all and as I said holds up really well when graded. Any LOG in 8bit is sheer crap esp combined with an in camera codec.
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:34 pm

Did you already encounter a scene where Slog-3 is really filling those 10 bits?
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:35 pm

John Paines wrote:Well, I think it *is* more difficult. But slog aside, log itself is not well understood at this end of the market. Incorrectly normalized footage is still commonplace, with results worse than you'd expect from a point and shoot. Typical buyers at this end of the market don't often have post-production experience.
What in particular do you find more difficult to grade? I'd also have thought given the price and specs it's in the same market segment as the BM pocket cameras (hence why it's being discussed here)
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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Did you already encounter a scene where Slog-3 is really filling those 10 bits?

Yes.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 5:51 pm

John Griffin wrote:What in particular do you find more difficult to grade?


Because, even when using sanctioned procedures, manufacturer LUTs or color management, slog takes much more effort (from me) than, say, Canon log, LogC or BMD Film to get a passable result.... But we not agree on what an acceptable grade looks like. That's been known to happen here, ten thousands words later....

John Griffin wrote:I'd also have thought given the price and specs it's in the same market segment as the BM pocket cameras (hence why it's being discussed here)


Yes, the same; when the BMPCC 4K was first released, members of the Facebook group routinely posted stills of log footage and others praised its excellent quality. To this day, folks have known to post what is plainly incorrectly normalized footage in this very forum and drawn conclusions about the footage, rather than the colorist. It's a fraught subject. The technology surpassed the skills of its likely users a few years ago.... Most buyers of the FX30 will probably be better off shooting S-Cinetone.
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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 6:19 pm

Which is actually quite acceptable if lighting and exposure are correct and there's no time for grading.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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John Griffin

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 6:20 pm

In terms of the log response curve S-LOG 3 is very similar to Arri C or V-log i.e linear apart from the shadows. Colour difference are likley more dependent on the sensor and camera than the gamut and Sony colour is notoriously a challenge say compared to Canon and BM for sure but it's still achievable IME.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 7:50 pm

John Griffin wrote:Colour difference are likley more dependent on the sensor and camera than the gamut and Sony colour is notoriously a challenge say compared to Canon and BM for sure but it's still achievable IME.
It's both. The sensors are different **and** the primaries of each gamut are different between Sony, Canon, Red, etc. Even within one manufacturer they can be different. Sony for example has Sgamut3 versus Sgamut3.cine that are quite different. It's the former of the two gamuts that gave Sony it's rep for being harder to grade because the primaries didn't line up on the same hue vectors for the primaries of most display spaces. Sgamut3.cine does line up so for those who try to grade using just CDL or Lift/Gamma/Gain, the results are what they expect. If you're faced with Sgmaut3 footage, just use a transform (like a LUT or CST node, or DCTL) to move the primaries into your display color space at the end of the color pipeline and grade underneath that (or an IDT to move the primaries into your working color space, and then an ODT at the end of the pipeline.)
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Philipp Walz

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostMon Oct 10, 2022 6:12 pm

I cross my fingers for an October announcement: I'm that close to buy a R5C because of the better sensor (low light quality is fantastic) and for it's versatility. But I hate to left BRAW behind cause that codec and workflow is just the best I've experienced so far! Not to mention the fantastic UI of BM.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 2:56 am

It wouldn’t shock me if Blackmagic just stuck with the 6K Pro for a very long time. The other cameras in the space now have incredible auto focus, low light, amazing image stabilization… All things that Blackmagic may not be able to do, if they haven’t invested heavily in them. Those technologies (at least IS and continuous AF) are all proprietary and take decades to develop.

I would LOVE to be wrong, After all, I own 4 different iterations of their smaller cams. But they’re already at 6K, and I just don’t know what other features they could add, other than resolution. It would make sense if they just went all-in on the Ursa Mini. People don’t really miss IS or amazing AF on cameras like that.

Anyway, my random speculation.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:01 am

Philipp Walz wrote:I cross my fingers for an October announcement: I'm that close to buy a R5C because of the better sensor (low light quality is fantastic) and for it's versatility. But I hate to left BRAW behind cause that codec and workflow is just the best I've experienced so far! Not to mention the fantastic UI of BM.

I'm generally not a big fan of either Canon or Sony's UI and Menu design. Even in Canon's higher end cinema cameras I tend to get annoyed by the way it's all set up. Feels too much like engineers fingers as opposed to actual camera operators.

That's the massive difference with Blackmagic and their wonderful UI and Menu! It feels like it was designed by camera operators and, the truth is, that it was.

Any lack of camera announcements at this time feels like a good sign for some new designs in the future. And, with new designs I'm completely happy with Blackmagic taking the time to get it right.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:05 am

Greg Lee wrote:It would make sense if they just went all-in on the Ursa Mini. People don’t really miss IS or amazing AF on cameras like that.

The only time that AutoFocus would be handy is in situations that you're doing an interview or a teleprompter reading. And, that's currently where the Sony FX9 and FX6 are currently being asked for the most by clients and producers. I still get plenty of work with my URSA Mini because of the image quality. But the convenience of AF in those cameras for those documentaries and interviews is very apparent.

I'm fine with Blackmagic going in on the URSA Line. Like I have said in the past I'd love to see the URSA, URSA Mini, and URSA Micro become the three options for the URSA Line. Or, as I have said in the past a new name for the new line of cameras.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 3:49 am

I love the URSA lines but I doubt if BMD will go all in on the URSAs. After all, they quickly abandoned the firmware updates when they had their hands on the Pocket. This started happening when the P4K and P6K came out and look at where the firmware is at for the G2. The the P6K Pro came out and the U12K firmware just got sideways. There’s a pattern here.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 5:35 am

BMD can go AI for AF or maybe a lidar. The P4-6k market segment will dry up. The fx30 is good enough for most beginners and some not so beginners. That's the future. I'm stuck with braw, and because I don't want the added weight of an onboard recorder. But af is very tempting, especially for my getting older eyes.

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Philipp Walz

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 8:37 am

timbutt2 wrote:That's the massive difference with Blackmagic and their wonderful UI and Menu! It feels like it was designed by camera operators and, the truth is, that it was.

Any lack of camera announcements at this time feels like a good sign for some new designs in the future. And, with new designs I'm completely happy with Blackmagic taking the time to get it right.


That's the point. But I think it's the ecosystem of BRAW and DaVinci too. It's just too easy to work with these files and it's super convenient. In the beginning I was really pissed that Apple did not implement BRAW into FCPX but that's not a problem anymore for me cause transcoding is so fast and editing get's even more simple with Resolve these days.

ricardo marty wrote:BMD can go AI for AF or maybe a lidar. The P4-6k market segment will dry up. The fx30 is good enough for most beginners and some not so beginners. That's the future. I'm stuck with braw, and because I don't want the added weight of an onboard recorder. But af is very tempting, especially for my getting older eyes.


The FX30 has it's benefits, that's true. But there are some major quirks when it comes to features. I really love the 6K resolution from my Pocket 6K and the FX30 has a 6K sensor too but no 6K files to work with internally. BRAW is an option but just with a fat crop applied to and that's just bs.

What I mostly like about a cam like the R5C is it's size and weight. I use the Pocket 6K mostly fro travel and run-and-gun shooting, so lightweight and handy sizes are pretty nice to have. If Blackmagic would release a new (maybe) boxed or cageless URSA (or a completely new line) where you can attach the viewfinder and some other stuff for a reasonable price...I would go for it instead of Canon. But in the meantime the tech inside the R5C is far far superior to what the Pocket has and even the URSA in case of image quality (better ISO performance).
Maybe we will get a Pocket with an URSA sensor which has an 8K limit but 120fps...

I keep my fingers crossed cause BM did A LOT right in the past 4 years but competition has overtaken the market in terms of price and features.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 9:49 am

timbutt2 wrote:The only time that AutoFocus would be handy is in situations that you're doing an interview or a teleprompter reading. And, that's currently where the Sony FX9 and FX6 are currently being asked for the most by clients and producers. I still get plenty of work with my URSA Mini because of the image quality. But the convenience of AF in those cameras for those documentaries and interviews is very apparent.


It must be remembered that despite massive inroads into the prosumer (and pro) cine markets, Sony is essentially of a broadcast background. The reason the FS7s and FX9s have been so popular is largely to do with their XAVC 10bit 4:2:2 codecs that comply with 50/100/200mbps, HD/UHD minimum EBU requirements and are considerably smaller and simpler for transcoding/post workflows, than Prores/raw codecs for huge documentary shooting ratios. It went largely unnoticed sadly that BMD, introduced similar codecs on the UBG2. Grant Petty has a broadcast engineering background and this arena remains very important for BMD.

The move to larger sensors and smaller bodies almost necessitates AF and IS, but it is my view these cameras are the wrong type for doc and run and gun. It should not be a problem on any camera to focus manually a setup, sit down interview but the run and gun is a different matter. I suppose everyone wants everything to look like fiction cinema these days. It is still my view that a proper ENG camera with very flexible fast B4s is still the best tool for this job. However, the documentary professional cameraperson is rarer every day now, and the size and complexity of a shoulder mount B4 lensed camera is too much for the PD self shooters, who mostly film this content these days. Again the smaller FX6/FS7s and even the FX9 are easier for them to handle and Sony are selling them by the shedload.

I would go so far, as to say, the FS7 and now the FX9, have been the defacto documentary cameras for long form broadcast TV, for a number of years, replacing the once common 2/3" ENG/EFP cameras many fold, and most jobs here in TV specify a familiarity with them, for those roles. DSLR and mirrorless are much less common, for such work.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 2:26 pm

Braw + Davinci Resolve is unmatched in the industry.

I'd love BMD to extend their ecosystem with wireless video and a Lidar system. DJI's 3D Waveform for focus pullers is a f**** dream for any AC. See from 8:22 min



And that Frankenstein rigging of wireless video transmitters, which mostly still need power via dinosaur D-Tap, could be a thing of the past with a clever hardware solution.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostTue Oct 11, 2022 11:03 pm

I very much like the ronin 4d but not with the gimble just the lidar. wish thy have internal braw.

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 2:37 am

Philipp Walz wrote:...the tech inside the R5C is far far superior to what the Pocket has and even the URSA in case of image quality (better ISO performance).

This was not the conclusion that this Canon R5C owner came to:

KarbonRodd wrote:

"...Last weekend I was running the R5C on a tripod in 105 degree weather all day off of a 98WH V mount and had the CF Express give me heat warnings multiple times during the day, but it never did give up on me. Periodically I was storing the cameras in air conditioned rooms to avoid overheating, and I popped the card slot and let the CF Express hang out of the camera to cool it faster. A few times per shooting day I have to pop the dummy battery out and reinstall it to get it to clear an error and power back on (using Kondor Blue dummy to D tap). Image is good but nothing incredible, and no C log 2 (like the C70). Nice option if you need a photo solution interchangeably, or crazy resolutions and frame rates and good low light ISO (C70s only real weak spot).

...R5C I sort of regret buying sometimes, I expected a lot for the price tag it bears and the meager dynamic range (comparitively) is really my biggest gripe. I have an URSA and 6K Pro I use for commercial and music video work also and I was hoping the R5C would at least match the 6K Pro image, but I really don't think it does. Sad for a $5000 camera setup to lose out to a $2500 camera setup with no real redeeming qualities outside of being a monster photo shooter too. Not really a big enough value for me as a 95% video shooter!"

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Uli Plank

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 4:56 am

I have tested the R6 and the Sony A7IV against each other. Both of these cameras have one big advantage over BM's cameras: excellent autofocus with tracking. Great for documentary, and what else is a wedding shoot?

Stabilisation is very good too, but now that we have gyro data stabilisation in DR, not such a huge thing in favour of them. Well, IBIS is not loosing sensor area, but it's more efficient for photography than filming.

Image quality is close in these, I don't see a huge difference. But, and that's a big BUT, the Sony can be set by a menu entry to let it get hotter without switching off. I tested both of them with the monitor open to the side for better cooling under the same conditions. The Canon switched off several times, the Sony didn't. And last summer was definitely hot in Germany. The only disadvantage to that setting was a bit more image noise, but nothing you can't handle.

What's a camera worth that can't run stable for extended times in doc? You can't ask the priest to repeat the ceremony, can you?
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 7:08 am

As a long time BM user with a lot of EF-glass I decided to complement with Canon some years ago.
Mostly for the excellent AF but also for the much better in camera audio.
For fast and easy set up, docu style, I always go Canon.
For more controlled situations I go BM.
Both brands give me wonderful footage.
Isn't it just choosing the right tool for the specific job?

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 7:12 am

jerrygladh wrote:Isn't it just choosing the right tool for the specific job?

This!
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 7:31 am

Definitely.
I'd rather use the Sony for weddings and any BM camera for a movie with a script and crew.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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Philipp Walz

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 9:53 am

dondidnod wrote:This was not the conclusion that this Canon R5C owner came to:

KarbonRodd wrote:

...R5C I sort of regret buying sometimes, I expected a lot for the price tag it bears and the meager dynamic range (comparitively) is really my biggest gripe. I have an URSA and 6K Pro I use for commercial and music video work also and I was hoping the R5C would at least match the 6K Pro image, but I really don't think it does. Sad for a $5000 camera setup to lose out to a $2500 camera setup with no real redeeming qualities outside of being a monster photo shooter too. Not really a big enough value for me as a 95% video shooter!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingvideogr ... _weddings/


Thank you so much! This was the kind of review I was searching for but couldn't find anything.
Maybe I will stick with my Pocket 6K for a while but I really do not like the form factor of the Pro.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostWed Oct 12, 2022 11:28 am

Greg Lee wrote:It wouldn’t shock me if Blackmagic just stuck with the 6K Pro for a very long time.


Interestingly, my dealer, who sells a lot of BM gear, told me that the BMPCC4k is still the top seller in the line.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 2:08 am

Uli Plank wrote:… What's a camera worth that can't run stable for extended times in doc?


These photo cameras that shoot video have many great features, but they have to be the right tool for the job. Wherever you can’t control the shoot, and weddings would be a fine example, those features won’t prevent you from missing long shots. Trust your experience, you can get good focus with experience using a manual camera and manual lenses that you know well.

Running their hybrid camera hot is likely shortening the life of the processors.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 2:49 am

I will note how interesting it is that so many people make out like you can't shoot run and gun without autofocus. Like documentary filmmakers in the past couldn't have pulled their own focus efficiently. It's honestly pretty funny how little confidence these people have in their own capabilities to match the old methods. They seem to think without autofocus it's not possible.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 7:03 am

timbutt2 wrote:I will note how interesting it is that so many people make out like you can't shoot run and gun without autofocus. Like documentary filmmakers in the past couldn't have pulled their own focus efficiently.


I agree Tim but until around 10-15 years ago most documentaries had been, from the 1960s onwards, shot on first 16mm and then 2/3" broadcast cameras, mostly with parfocol zooms, where you can zoom in quickly focus and pull out wide. Nowadays it is more likely to be either Super 35 or increasingly FF, with small range zooms at best, that make that technique much more difficult, especially with 4K. As I said earlier, for run and gun they are really the wrong tool for the job. 35mm and larger frames were on cameras that required mostly a focus puller.

I personally think shallow DOF should be a judicious creative choice, not a pre-requisite for every shot. Often in documentary you need deep focus, in a shot, to see the whole context of where people are, but without AF on large format it is very difficult to maintain focus run and gun, in these cameras. There is much more out of focus shots now, even then, on the documentaries I cut these days, than there used to be.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 8:51 am

I shot docs on S35mm sensors cams, manual focus, mostly wider aperture. It is possible but also extremely exhausting.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 3:12 pm

What's interesting FOR ME on hybrid cams is that you have two cams in one and don't have to carry around two devices with two or more lenses each. That's perfect for traveling.

Technically the full frame format isn't that exciting for video, but for photo it's pretty cool. And so is autofocus when shooting photos with f1.4. But for video I would always trust my own eyes when it comes to focus pulling.

When running my Pocket 6K with an LPE6 battery in full 6K resolution I get around 36 minutes of recording before the battery dies. So the battery drain of the R5C is not a problem. But I have the opportunity to power the camera directly via USB, that's pretty cool when shooting long stuff.

In S35 mode you get a bigger sensor area in 6K also so this is pretty cool too.

The only real downside for me is the format, Cinema RAW Light. It's not trimmable in Resolve (or elsewhere) and there are ongoing issues with ISO setting in the RAW tab which is annoying.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 4:43 pm

timbutt2 wrote:I will note how interesting it is that so many people make out like you can't shoot run and gun without autofocus. Like documentary filmmakers in the past couldn't have pulled their own focus efficiently. It's honestly pretty funny how little confidence these people have in their own capabilities to match the old methods. They seem to think without autofocus it's not possible.


Well, I will amuse you a little more :-)

One operator and often low budget, fast setups, interviews, multiple cameras, fast lenses, creative shallow DOF, etc...


I just don’t have the divine skills to handle some of that without AF.


Also, the ability of face and eye focus shift between people, AF speed settings, tracking etc...
I use AF cameras when I think it adds something to the job



Otherwise I’m quite happy with BM and "old school" manual focus…



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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 4:58 pm

jerrygladh wrote:… One operator and often low budget, fast setups, interviews, multiple cameras, fast lenses, creative shallow DOF, etc...

Also, the ability of face and eye focus shift between people, AF speed settings, tracking etc...


Yes, many advantages to using AF capabilities that would be very difficult with manual gear. But it’s possible many times that auto focus is going to focus at the wrong time on the wrong subject in a frame, especially with a moving frame. So no panacea but certainly AF has greater ease of use in many situations.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 6:05 pm

To the bit above about the shop owner saying the BMPCC4K still outsells the 6k ... I'm thinking of getting another cam, and having difficulty justifying the increased cost and atvtimes fike sizes for 6k.

Good chance I'll stick with 4k.

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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 6:19 pm

I wished BMD will allow you to trade up cameras for a difference in cost. Like from URSA 4.6K G2 to the 12K or the BMPCC to a newer model in the same category. This will keep their customers committed to be on their brand and platform.
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No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 7:09 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:I wished BMD will allow you to trade up cameras for a difference in cost. Like from URSA 4.6K G2 to the 12K...


Now they might have thought about that when the UMP12K cost $10K and they could offer $2K off the UMP12K for a trade-in of a used BM4.6KG2. That may have induced many UM4.6KG2 owners to go with 12K. But instead they simply made a larger price reduction and you get to keep the UM4.6KG2.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 7:37 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:I wished BMD will allow you to trade up cameras for a difference in cost. Like from URSA 4.6K G2 to the 12K or the BMPCC to a newer model in the same category. This will keep their customers committed to be on their brand and platform.
BMD camera price points are low enough while their utility is high enough that they tend to hold their value well for resale. I've typically been able to sell my used BMD cameras for 70% or more of the original purchase price and buy the new model. Same financial result as if BMD was doing an upgrade program.
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Re: No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

PostThu Oct 13, 2022 9:07 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:I wished BMD will allow you to trade up cameras for a difference in cost. Like from URSA 4.6K G2 to the 12K or the BMPCC to a newer model in the same category. This will keep their customers committed to be on their brand and platform.
BMD camera price points are low enough while their utility is high enough that they tend to hold their value well for resale. I've typically been able to sell my used BMD cameras for 70% or more of the original purchase price and buy the new model. Same financial result as if BMD was doing an upgrade program.

That's good Jamie. Nevertheless, if there's an upgrade program with the kind of value difference you mentioned but direct through BMD, that will be nice and a single source to trade-up. It's wishful thinking but maybe BMD may be able to find it beneficial to keep customers loyal to the brand. BTW, looking at local for sale of BMD cameras in my neck of California, sellers will be ecstatic if they can even sell close to 50% of the original price they paid on a 3-year-old model.
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