Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

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jasonvp

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 2:20 pm

rick.lang wrote:Is that all it’s waiting for?


Sorry if I wasn't clear: that was "net" speculation. Nothing has been confirmed from Apple as they're not in the habit of doing such things, as you know. :-) It's an assumption, but we don't know for sure.

Are you going to jump on it?


I'm at a "probably" with it. I want the updated hardware encoder/decoder that comes with the 5700XT. However, all of that is pointless as none of the MPX modules are purchasable through Apple yet. You can only get them with Macs at this point. I'm guessing they just don't have a stock of them to start selling directly yet.
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rick.lang

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 2:49 pm

That’s a bummer if Apple will not offer individual W5700X MPX modules for sale for those who already bought the newer Mac Pro. That puts some pressure on me to get that Mac Pro sooner than later!

But I’m not the best person to test this as I can’t afford to put a lot of memory in it initially (since I’m likely maxing out the SSDs (because I can’t afford to upgrade my Pegasus2 R6 RAID yet)). Oh well I’ll certainly be able to give a go at the Deliver tab performance improvements compared to a recently completed h.264 encode with the modest Radeon M395X in the iMac. At least the iMac uses Intel Quick Sync for h.264, so I think it will be an interesting comparison of new GPU hardware versus the Intel CPU instruction set.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 2:55 pm

rick.lang wrote:That’s a bummer if Apple will not offer individual W5700X MPX modules for sale for those who already bought the newer Mac Pro. That puts some pressure on me to get that Mac Pro sooner than later!


Oh, I didn't mean to imply that they'll never start selling the cards individually. The MPX modules that are available in the Mac Pro are listed in the online Apple store, and there's no reason to think the W5700X won't be included. But if you look at those Apple store entries, they're "Not available yet." None of them are. Not the Vega II, or the Vega II Duo, etc. And there's no ETA on when Apple will begin selling them individually.

But, to be clear: they will be available in the store. Some day.

At least the iMac uses Intel Quick Sync for h.264, so I think it will be an interesting comparison of new GPU hardware versus the Intel CPU instruction set.


I agree. Intel's QuickSync is surprisingly capable. I think NVidia still holds the crown when it comes to raw speed with encoding. They've been doing it much longer than Intel and/or AMD at this point and are several generations into it. But it will be interesting to see how well the newer AMD GPUs stack up.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 7:02 pm

rick.lang wrote:Jerry, nice the Mac Pro has arrived! What are your first impressions? Looking forward to your feedback on the efficacy of the 580 GPU with the 4K BRAW footage.

Getting tired of waiting for the W5700X card that obvious is not “coming soon.” I think Apple should update their status on the availability of the W5700X to “better late than never?”


Pretty much as expected, Rick.
Cant handle a braw UHD timeline with som basic grading ans NR.
On pair or maybe a little faster compared to my 2013 8-core D700 64ram.
Adobe CC apps got a nice boost though. 16 cores helps.

Waiting for some ram upgrade from 32 and some decisions about GPU upgrade.

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 7:02 pm

jerrygladh wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Jerry, nice the Mac Pro has arrived! What are your first impressions? Looking forward to your feedback on the efficacy of the 580 GPU with the 4K BRAW footage.

Getting tired of waiting for the W5700X card that obvious is not “coming soon.” I think Apple should update their status on the availability of the W5700X to “better late than never?”


Pretty much as expected, Rick.
Cant handle a braw UHD timeline with som basic grading and NR.
On pair or maybe a little faster compared to my 2013 8-core D700 64ram.
Adobe CC apps got a nice boost though. 16 cores helps.

Waiting for some ram upgrade from 32 and some decisions about GPU upgrade.

Jerry
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 pm

Thank you, Jerry. You’re on the bleeding edge.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostSun Jan 26, 2020 11:24 am

Hmm, still no separate GPU purchase options at all on Apple store.
Are we waiting for OS 10.15.3 to support the W5700X?
Need to fill up some slots here...

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostSun Jan 26, 2020 2:07 pm

I think that makes sense. With beta 3 of the next macOS release available we should be close to seeing the W5700X release in February.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostSun Jan 26, 2020 2:42 pm

rick.lang wrote:I think that makes sense. With beta 3 of the next macOS release available we should be close to seeing the W5700X release in February.


Yep, that card could be a good choice.
More of a Q why you can't buy the Vegas though.

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Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostSun Jan 26, 2020 3:05 pm

I’m hoping to start with the W5700X as I’m anticipating it will be a lower entry level cost than the Vega II. After I have experience with using the Mac Pro, I can consider upgrades as appropriate since I could add another double-height card.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 11:35 pm

I was thinking the next macOS release would include updated drivers enabling the release of the Radeon Pro W5700X GPU MPX card for the newer Mac Pro. I made the macOS update today but Apple’s webpages continue to say the W5700X is “coming soon.”
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Jan 30, 2020 1:34 am

rick.lang wrote:I made the macOS update today but Apple’s webpages continue to say the W5700X is “coming soon.”


It was purely speculation on everyone's part; no one other than Apple knows for sure. Folks that have tried commercial 5700XT cards under 10.15.3 have said that there's no improvement in performance with them yet. So it's not clear that Apple has done any work with that GPU as of yet. Or at least, nothing they've released.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:04 pm

rick.lang wrote:I made the macOS update today but Apple’s webpages continue to say the W5700X is “coming soon.”


It's still "coming soon", but someone on MacRumors found this filing with the Korean Communications Commission:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ra ... t-28195497

I'd assume we're getting a lot closer to a release.
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Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:44 pm

Thanks, Jason. Filed 2020-01-07 one would think release should be this month.

All that chatter about waiting on other things before we have a purchasable W5700X, one of the reasons I’m not posting on that site. But, shame on me, I’m glad you’re sharing what you hear there on the chance some of it’s reality.

I don’t mind waiting and making do with the iMac, but anyone would appreciate a thoughtful word from Apple such as “Coming April 1.” Anything is better than “Coming soon.” I suppose the longer the wait, the more pent up demand, and three days after release the message will change to “Out of Stock.”
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU QUESTION FOR RESOLVE

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:46 pm

rick.lang wrote:Michael, please look at post #15. Resolves now sees both GPUs on the single Duo card. I’m not talking about two separate cards, but two GPUs linked on one card. Resolve will use a total of 64GB VRAM without any further effort on the part of the user.


Dual GPU in one card is not new. NVidia and AMD (formerly ATI) use to release single card with (GTX for example) 2 GPUs.

Resolves seems to behave like 3D games using SLI/Crossfire. The same assets are loaded to both GPU memory. Meaning, 2x32GB of GPU memory is effectively 32GB of GPU memory.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:54 pm

No GPU:s purchasable at all.

Regret i didnt go for the Vega to start with.
Feels strange to work with that empty machine :-)

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Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:56 pm

@mpetech

I had been corrected recently on my post that you quoted which ‘implied’ that Resolve would see 64GB. To split hairs a bit, I said would “use a total of 64GB.” The real user experience now shows that the GPUs on the Duo card are seen as two separately identifiable GPUs with each having 32GB VRAM. I don’t think that implies both are written to with the same data. Just the Infinity Fabric can link data flow between the two GPUs without involving the PCIe bus for any heavy lifting presumably.
Last edited by rick.lang on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 4:57 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Jason. Filed 2020-01-07 one would think release should be this month.


I hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it. The 10.15.3 release of MacOS did not bring any useful 5700XT GPU support with it. The folks using aftermarket 5700s on the Macs didn't see any improved performance or support. So the speculation has changed from the release of 10.15.3 to the release of 10.15.4.

Again, it's pure speculation; only Apple knows for sure.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 5:08 pm

jerrygladh wrote:No GPU:s purchasable at all.

Regret i didnt go for the Vega to start with.
Feels strange to work with that empty machine :-)

Jerry


Jerry, I might share that feeling if I bump the basic memory 4x8GB to 6x8GB simply to have six-way memory interleaving.

I may not be able to afford to bump the memory via third-party for awhile due to other demands for that green stuff that doesn’t grow on trees. But maybe 48GB won’t really be a noticeable improvement and I should just save the $360 CDN until I can significantly upgrade memory.

It is the weirdest marketing that Apple prices a base machine that expensive but only includes 4x8GB when a design feature is six-way interleaving. You just want to invite their MPro7 marketeers out to lunch with our forum friends and stick Apple with the bill. Eat, drink, and be merry!
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Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 5:20 pm

Jason, the comparison 5700 devices are certainly apples and oranges. There’s no device, without included cooling, with the same specs, and the hardware and software integration as the W5700X MPX in the MPro7. They are keeping busy but may not be good predictors of pricing. For what it’s worth (not even 2 cents, but maybe a penny for my thoughts) I’m hoping the card doesn’t exceed $1,000 USD. That’s what my budget allows now.

It’s going to be very interesting to see what BMD Resolve has up their sleeves. They did say they would have more to say later. I think one of the products that may be used by Resolve 17 is the Afterburner.

But I’m also wondering if Resolve 17 will allow MPro7 configurations with both a W5700X and a Vega II to be able to target which function each card can perform on the different GPUs. Not an issue when you have all GPUs the same, but intriguing when they don’t match and each may be better at a given function than the other.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 10:33 pm

rick.lang wrote:@mpetech

I had been corrected recently on my post that you quoted which ‘implied’ that Resolve would see 64GB. To split hairs a bit, I said would “use a total of 64GB.” The real user experience now shows that the GPUs on the Duo card are seen as two separately identifiable GPUs with each having 32GB VRAM. I don’t think that implies both are written to with the same data. Just the Infinity Fabric can link data flow between the two GPUs without involving the PCIe bus for any heavy lifting presumably.


Has nothing to do with Infinity Fabric or SLI or Crossfire. The AMD Duo card is just 2 GPUs on the same circuit board. It saves you physical space and PCIe slot and lanes. At the end of the day, the computer sees 2 logical units. They are treated like 2 GPUs.
Resolve, when it sees such configuration and you activate both GPUs in your Resolve settings will utilize all available processing units. However, the memory load for each GPU is still the same. It is not 32+32. It is 32.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 6:11 pm

Added 2 Radeon VII:s and 6x32gb ram while waiting.
Works really good and gives me a little more patience for upcoming solutions.

Jerry
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 8:11 pm

Jerry, do you know if this W5700X “coming soon” product has been further delayed by the Coronavirus outbreak?
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Feb 20, 2020 10:10 pm

rick.lang wrote:Jerry, do you know if this W5700X “coming soon” product has been further delayed by the Coronavirus outbreak?


No idea....

After some work and delivery today I think I stick to my setup for a while.
Smooth 4k timeline with some basic grade, NR, sharpening etc.
Render cache bye bye

Jerry
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 1:03 am

Sounds good. What’s the total VRAM available to DaVinci Resolve?
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 7:53 am

rick.lang wrote:Sounds good. What’s the total VRAM available to DaVinci Resolve?


Well, both cards dedicated to Resolve and nothing connected to them. 32GB I suppose...

Jerry
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 7:56 am

That’s what I’m thinking is enough for 4K.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 10:29 am

jerrygladh wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Sounds good. What’s the total VRAM available to DaVinci Resolve?


Well, both cards dedicated to Resolve and nothing connected to them. 32GB I suppose...

Jerry

If its 2 Radeon 7 16GB cards then resolve has 16GB of VRAM available.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 12:47 pm

StefColosi wrote:
jerrygladh wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Sounds good. What’s the total VRAM available to DaVinci Resolve?


Well, both cards dedicated to Resolve and nothing connected to them. 32GB I suppose...

Jerry

If its 2 Radeon 7 16GB cards then resolve has 16GB of VRAM available.


Stand corrected, over my technical level, sorry.

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 2:34 pm

StefColosi wrote:If its 2 Radeon 7 16GB cards then resolve has 16GB of VRAM available.


Stef, with the new (unreleased) Radeon Pro W5700X MPX cards for the Mac Pro late 2019, Apple’s order selection suggests using one or two GPU cards each with 16GB DDR6 memory.

I thought both cards could be defined to DaVinci Resolve, so your system would see two GPU each with 16 GB of memory. We have already seen the Resolve Preferences screen that shows a Radeon Vega II Duo with two 32GB GPUs selected. Am I wrong? Is the limitation on memory available with the current release Resolve 16?

I know the Resolve team mentioned they’d have more to announce re the use of the Mac Pro in the future. This has been discussed before on the forum but I don’t recall getting anything like a complete explanation form BMD so I assume it will wait for NAB 2020.

I plan on ordering the Mac Pro with a single W5700X MPX initially to see if I need a second card to handle 4K BRAW Q0 and ProRes HQ video.

Thanks for any further explanation you can provide.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 3:11 am

Changed my mind and my Mac Pro with Pro Vega II 32GB HBM2 arrived this evening. Will set it up Wednesday.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 am

rick.lang wrote:Changed my mind and my Mac Pro with Pro Vega II 32GB HBM2 arrived this evening. Will set it up Wednesday.


Nice Rick, good choice.
If you get a minute free in Resolve and have 16.2....

Edit tab playback test, Ungraded .braw in UHD timeline.
5 textlayers on top of eachother....

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 10:53 am

rick.lang wrote:Changed my mind and my Mac Pro with Pro Vega II 32GB HBM2 arrived this evening. Will set it up Wednesday.


You made this post at 10PM Tuesday night? And you'll set the Mac up today instead of last night? Come on Rick, get with it, man. Should have stayed up last night to do it!

;-)

Enjoy your new rig. Editing in Resolve on them is a joy.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Mar 18, 2020 12:21 pm

Jason, the delay on handling the cardboard shipping package is due to COVID-19 concerns. Waiting to be sure any virus on the package has expired. The inside contents will be safe today as well. I’m in the high-risk category and self-isolating as we have called it in Canada. I do still walk the dog so not shut-in and stir-crazy.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Apr 15, 2020 9:34 pm

Ok, the W5700X is up for orders.


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Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostWed Apr 15, 2020 9:58 pm

$1,250 CDN. That’s about what I had expected so not bad in my opinion. The Display Compression makes it a great GPU for my Mac Pro Display XDR as it turns on the power of those three USB-C Out ports on the display hub.

Are you going to order it?
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 8:34 am

rick.lang wrote:$1,250 CDN. That’s about what I had expected so not bad in my opinion. The Display Compression makes it a great GPU for my Mac Pro Display XDR as it turns on the power of those three USB-C Out ports on the display hub.

Are you going to order it?


My 580X and 2xVII runs nice, so no.

Will be interesting to see some side by side Barefeats tests though.

Jerry
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 2:40 pm

I took a look at the detailed description of the new W5800X 16GB GPU on the Mac Pro Accessories webpage. There is no mention of the Display Compression feature if the existing W5700XT 8GB card that does include the Display Compression feature. You would think Apple would mention that feature IF the W5700X MPX GPU included it, but perhaps not.

I also looked in the Mac Pro Display XDR white paper and it also makes no reference to the 3 USB-C ports being capable of functioning as USB 3.1 Gen 1 ports when the XDR is using a Display Compression feed on its TB3 In port. It sadly does mention the three USB-C ports function as USB2 ports with power and data. Again surely Apple would want to describe their improved capabilities if that is true.

I’ll see if I can find out it everything is as we expected using the W5700X or if Apple has quietly backed away from this since they never tell you what they don’t support!
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Some good news re the new W5700X MPX card driving the Pro Display XDR. Apple has confirmed the card supports and will automatically use Display Stream Compression (DSC) as described in the RDNA Architecture White Paper. However there is some uncertainty if that will enable USB 3.1 Gen 1 on the 3 ports on the back of the Display XDR. Apple’s website mentions USB2 as the default and USB 3.1 Gen 1 if connected to a MacBook Pro. The support person wouldn’t guarantee other devices could also use USB 3.1 Gen 1.

Here is my Feedback sent to Apple in hope I’ll get a response although that’s not a given:

“I use AMD Radeon Pro Vega !! in my Mac Pro. I want to add the W5700X card to connect to Pro Display XDR because it supports Display Stream Compression (DSC).

I seem to recall the three USB-C ports on the back of the Mac Pro Display XDR will function as USB 3.1 Gen 1 ports if DSC is used to drive the display. I want the USB 3.1 Gen 1 connection speed to read my 1 terabyte media card and transfer data to other devices. My card reader is USB 3.1 Get 2, but USB 3.1 Gen 1 is OK.

I believe I was told or heard months ago that DSC would enable USB 3.1 Gen 1 capabilities for those ports (not just for the MacBook Pro as mentioned by Apple). I’ll add the W5700X but the USB 3.1 Gen ! is important.

Please confirm 3 Display XDR ports are USB 3.1 Gen 1 if W5700X DSC is used.
Thank you."
Rick Lang
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jasonvp

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:14 pm

A few of the folks over at the MacRumors site have received their W5700X MPX modules from Apple, finally. But I'll be damned if any of them will try to do some work with these cards. Sheesh. Instead, they're running useless Geekbench tests, trying them under Windows and bootcamp, and posting pictures of them in the box. I even commented in my usual snarky manner about that, asking would someone please run some h.265 exports with Resolve or Final Cut Pro X. Nyet.
System: Mac Pro (2019)
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 10:20 pm

Perhaps the earliest adopters are strictly gamers.
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Paul Draper

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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 11:12 pm

Personally, would take any Apple hype with a grain of salt, & especially re. their AMD GPUs. In my case, an 11GB RTX 2080Ti running on a Dell workstation waaaay outperforms this overpriced /over-hyped 32GB Vega II on a Mac Pro. Like many, am also watching this space carefully but I suspect we won't see anything comparable to Nvidia performance until AMD's BigNavi later in the year - but then also with a grain of realism: also needing (the still problematic) Mac OS Catalina driver support.

Ditto the 5700WX release: should have been released as the 'bog standard' card at the MP 7,1 release instead of the useless 580X. And still there are apparently driver issues with the 5700WX & 'meh' performance while we wait for macOS 10.15.4 still to get its act together, one continues to hope for in 10.15.5 ...
MacPro 7,1, 16 core, 2TB, 192GB, Vega II 32GB. UA Apollo x8, DeckLink MiniMon 4k. 8TB RAID 4 OWC Thunderbay 6, 2TB RAID 0 Sonnet M.2 4x4. Dell U3415W & BenQ SW2700PT. Nuendo, FCPX, Resolve Studio 16.2.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 11:53 pm

Paul, I suspect I’ll wait for the NAVI 21 speculated to be released later in 2021. Especially could be much later given the delays we saw with the W5700X release. The NAVI 21 may draw significantly less power and that’s important to me as I’m trying to keep my edit suite running on a single 15 Amp circuit. By the same token the LG OLEDs are looking attractive to test my grades in part for their lower power requirements.
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 12:20 pm

Paul Draper wrote:Personally, would take any Apple hype with a grain of salt, & especially re. their AMD GPUs.


There's not been any "hype" around the new W5700X release. In fact, Apple has said nothing about it at all, other than when they introduced the Mac Pro. Then went silent on it other than having a "coming soon" note on said GPU. Like previous releases, this "coming soon" GPU just appeared. Folks only knew about it because they were religiously checking Apple's site waiting for the moment to buy.

The only interest I have in the card is its hardware encoding speed. It theoretically should be a good bit faster than the Vega GPUs at the same task. But getting someone to try and test that has been challenging.

In my case, an 11GB RTX 2080Ti running on a Dell workstation waaaay outperforms this overpriced /over-hyped 32GB Vega II on a Mac Pro.


I'm sure most of us would prefer an NVidia GPU in a Mac, but it's literally never going to happen again. I rarely say "never", but this is one of those times I feel comfortable doing so. Given that, it's really pointless to compare the two or kvetch about it. We know Apple and NVidia hate each other with a blinding passion. Which means Apple and NVidia are never going to work together again after the laptop fiasco of several years ago. It's over, done, finished, kaput. Neither company has the modesty or humility to apologize to the other.

That means if you want to stay in the Apple environment, you learn to bend the AMD GPUs to your needs. Can they perform like NVidia's can? Nope. Team Green will always have the advantage; they just make better GPUs across the board and always have. If you want Team Green, it means Windows or Linux; the Mac environment is out of the question.

Like many, am also watching this space carefully but I suspect we won't see anything comparable to Nvidia performance until


And like so many AMD releases of the past, they'll release something that's just as good as the previous generation of NVidia cards, while Jensen and crew are well into the next generation. Again: set expectations accordingly.

Ditto the 5700WX release: should have been released as the 'bog standard' card at the MP 7,1 release


Sure, but there wasn't a product ready for the Mac Pro. So either Apple delays releasing the Pro by almost five months(!) or they release it with a serviceable GPU until the W5700X is ready. They chose correctly, I believe.
System: Mac Pro (2019)
CPU: 3.2GHz 16-core Xeon
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RAM: 96GB
Storage: 1TB sys drive, 8TB NVMe RAID01, 4TB SSD RAID0
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Re: Mac Pro 2019 GPU question

PostTue May 19, 2020 12:14 am

Does anyone have feedback on the W5700X yet? Barefeats has run some tests that look okay, but I'm curious if we have any happy (or not) users on this forum.
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