240fps in bmpcc 4k

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eyedear

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240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Feb 05, 2020 2:35 pm

Any chance that black magic will be able to provide 240fps in fullHD similiar to gh5s. Just wondering
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Robert Niessner

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Feb 05, 2020 3:51 pm

If they could, they probably would have done so from day one. BMD normally does not restrict their hardware artificially. So the answer is: most likely no.

Just because people on the internet write they think it is the same sensor as in the GH5s, this must not be true and therefore you can't pull any conclusions from looking at the GH5s
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pnguyen720

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Feb 05, 2020 6:27 pm

Well they did give us 2K 120 so there’s always hope. :)

I’d love a 1080/240 just like the ZCam too!
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eyedear

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostFri Feb 21, 2020 3:12 am

I was on an assignment and 120fps was not enough. if there was 240fps I would have capture it. Thats why I think it would be an awesome addition to have 240fps at FHD
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Robert Niessner

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostMon Feb 24, 2020 8:08 pm

eyedear wrote:I was on an assignment and 120fps was not enough. if there was 240fps I would have capture it. Thats why I think it would be an awesome addition to have 240fps at FHD

I agree that it would be great, but as I already wrote it is very unlikely to happen. For 240fps the sensor would have to be able to readout twice as fast as for 120fps. That means a much higher clock and more heat. It needs double the transfer bandwidth and processing power. No firmware update will going to change a hardware limitation, which might have been there in the first place.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostMon Feb 24, 2020 9:35 pm

If they do like 180 FPS of Lumix Gh5, no thanks.... better to have 120 clean and good then 180-200 with quality/gamma/structure down.
Anyway usually Blackmagic Design do from the first day the feature like this.



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Denny Smith

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostTue Feb 25, 2020 5:38 pm

Yes, the Pocket 4K’s sensor readout time is too slow for anything past 120fps in 2K sensor window, let alone full sensor readout, the larger the sensor area, the slower the readout times, the slower the frame rate — this is a hardware limitation.
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Uli Plank

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Feb 26, 2020 1:25 am

Well, they could go for a 1K window, just like Red did in early models to achieve 300 FPS ;-)
You’ll get nice slo-mo in SD.
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eyedear

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Feb 29, 2020 4:24 pm

That would be interesting
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pnguyen720

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostTue Mar 24, 2020 5:19 pm

Hey gang -

Not sure if anyone here can confirm but is there any chance that the BMPCC6K can do 4K/120fps? Is the 6K sensor capable of doing it?
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Uli Plank

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Mar 25, 2020 1:36 am

The same arguments as above apply too.
But from my experience, optical flow interpolation can do a pretty good job for footage that’s already shot at a higher rate. Going from 60 to 120 or 120 to 240 looks nice in most cases. Try to separate foreground and background by DoF as much as you can.
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Denny Smith

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Mar 25, 2020 6:03 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:Hey gang -
Not sure if anyone here can confirm but is there any chance that the BMPCC6K can do 4K/120fps? Is the 6K sensor capable of doing it?

No, the sensor readout times in in 6K are too slow, and the Pocket 6K does not have a 4K window mode to shoot 4K in. So your only option is to shoot higher than 60fps frame rates per BMD spec sheet are:
2868 x 1512 (2.8K 17:9) up to 120 fps
1920 x 1080 (HD) up to 120 fps

Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pnguyen720

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostWed Mar 25, 2020 7:24 pm

Thanks, Denny!

I was just wanted some confirmation that it was a hardware limitation. Appreciate it.
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Phil999

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 5:56 am

correction:

2.8k up to 80fps (2x anamorphic with desqueeze)
2.6k up to 120fps (1.33x anamorphic with or without desqueeze)

4k 2.4:1 up to 75fps
4k DCI up to 60fps
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rick.lang

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240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostFri Mar 27, 2020 2:05 pm

Phil999 wrote:...
2.6k up to 120fps (1.33x anamorphic with or without desqueeze)...


This is golden for those wanting reasonably good slow motion (5x) and best colour possible for HD deliverables. So good to see 2.6K doing 120 fps. Another reason to love flexibility of the BMPCC4K!

I haven’t shot that combination, but I think I’ll give it a go in a pending narrative short when our COVID-19 restrictions ease up. We’ve gone from no gatherings greater than 50 people to 10 people and now 2 people which excludes all narrative work in practical terms. 10 was fine for me but 2 is impossible unless you’re doing Hamlet’s soliloquy.
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Phil999

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 4:16 pm

rick.lang wrote:This is golden for those wanting reasonably good slow motion (5x) and best colour possible for HD deliverables. So good to see 2.6K doing 120 fps. Another reason to love flexibility of the BMPCC4K!

indeed, and I must admit that I also haven't used this setting until yesterday. Since firmware 6.6 I only used 4k 2.4:1 with 75fps so far, because it doesn't crop the width. But 2.6k with 120fps is fantastic for telephoto shots where the crop can be used to your advantage. With a Panasonic 100-300mm F4.0-5.6 II you have a very distant reach using this setting.

BMD really did an excellent job with their 6.6 firmware.
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pnguyen720

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 5:30 pm

I just did a double take of the specs of the 4K vs the 6K again.

It looks like the 4K does 2.6K/120 while the 6K does 2.8K/120 so it has slightly more resolution?

I'm trying to convince myself that the 6K is worth the upgrade. Haha
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rick.lang

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240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 6:00 pm

If you’re delivering 4K, the 6K will give you better results. If you’re delivering 2K/HD, the BMPCC4K will be fine shooting either 2.8K or 2.6K respectively.

Of course if you want to be future-proofed, the BMPCC6K May have a longer life. I’m not exactly being objective in my recommendations as I love using the BMPCC4K as long as the 13 stops can be managed (and the BMPCC6K shares that limitation).
Last edited by rick.lang on Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pnguyen720

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Re: 240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 6:02 pm

The 4K does 2.8K/120?
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rick.lang

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240fps in bmpcc 4k

PostSat Mar 28, 2020 6:03 pm

No I don’t think so. Tops out at 80 fps in 2.8K. So you’re correct: if 120 fps is a paramount requirement for 2K deliverables, then the BMPCC6K is the better choice.
Rick Lang

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