ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

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Mark Payne

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ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostMon Apr 26, 2021 4:34 pm

I just used the Extreme ISO to record a live interview, where I employed the Supersource, and in the ISO recording, all is well. However, when I opened up the davinci file, all the supersource moments were replaced by solid black stills. Does the Extreme ISO NOT record the supersource events to the resolve file? Or, did I set something up wrong?
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Mark Foster

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostMon Apr 26, 2021 5:19 pm

no, the supersource will not be recorded
but you can the programm out back in the an input to record
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Vedmich

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostTue May 18, 2021 10:10 pm

Is it software limitation or hardware?
And when you @Mark Foster said: "but you can the program out back in the an input to record"
What did you mean? How to restore super source animation and composition?
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Frank Engel

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostFri May 21, 2021 9:05 am

Wondering why they wouldn't set it up as a Fusion comp or similar in the produced project file and cut to that?

Not recording supersource as a video file is probably a mix of hardware and software limitations, but the supersource is simply a composite built from the exiting inputs which are recorded, so there should easily be a way to represent that in the project file, and I can't imagine why that would be a hardware limitation.
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TimBradley

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostWed Jun 30, 2021 3:30 am

Dear Black Magic,

Do you have either a firmware update for ATEM Mini Extreme or Davinci Resolve update in the works to enable the easy re-edit of Live Streams when Super Source is used?

Currently I output Super source from HDMI out 2, then send that into a camera input to record a clean version of the Super Source boxes/framing. While this works its not ideal as I use up an output and one input. Some jobs I will not have the luxury of having a spare output.

I love both the ATEM Extreme ISO and Davinci Reslve 17. Thanks for great tools!!

Cheers,
Tim
Tim Bradley
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Mark Payne

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 11:45 pm

Echoing the question posed by @timbradley here: anything in the works to enable the resolve editing in post of the super source. Like he said - right now we are using up an input and an output, AND while it works - it can't be edited, either, so it ends up being a non feature when I need to work on the resolve file afterwards. I do LOVE the ATEM Extreme ISO, and super source is an incredible tool, but quite crippled when it can't be edited as the rest of the resolve session created by the recording.

Here's hoping something it in the works! Any hints would be so much appreciated.

Regards,
Mark
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 3:40 pm

Mark Payne wrote:I just used the Extreme ISO to record a live interview, where I employed the Supersource, and in the ISO recording, all is well. However, when I opened up the davinci file, all the supersource moments were replaced by solid black stills. Does the Extreme ISO NOT record the supersource events to the resolve file? Or, did I set something up wrong?


no, it won't record the output of the supersource, but it will create the appropriate data for resolve to recreate the effect with all the recorded sources
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TimBradley

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostMon Jul 19, 2021 12:24 am

[quote="Raphaël Jacquot"
..... it will create the appropriate data for resolve to recreate the effect with all the recorded sources[/quote]

Hi Raphael, I must be missing something as the ISO only records the inputs, As far as I can work out it records nothing about the supersource settings/layout/inputs/animations. So recreating your supersource layout in Davinci is a lot of work. Hopefully I am a wrong and you can let me know how to do it easily.


Thank you,
Tim
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Mark Payne

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostMon Jul 19, 2021 1:28 pm

Raphaël Jacquot wrote:
Mark Payne wrote:I just used the Extreme ISO to record a live interview, where I employed the Supersource, and in the ISO recording, all is well. However, when I opened up the davinci file, all the supersource moments were replaced by solid black stills. Does the Extreme ISO NOT record the supersource events to the resolve file? Or, did I set something up wrong?


no, it won't record the output of the supersource, but it will create the appropriate data for resolve to recreate the effect with all the recorded sources


I can’t find this info either - boy, if the data were in there somewhere, that would be a good stopgap until BM builds the feature into an update. Do let us know if you know where we can find this data…

Thanks!
Mark
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Mark Payne

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 10:27 am

Hi All,

I heard back from BM support on this topic, and if I'm understanding right from what they said - the DRP file does have the super source info, however RESOLVE doesn't read it, so in fact, it's an update/change to RESOLVE that would need to happen. It doesn't sound that that feature is in plans to be implemented (they couldn't say), but if enough people request it as a new feature, maybe it'll get prioritized!! :-)

i could be wrong on all this, but from the response from tech support, that's what i garnered.

Cheers,
Mark
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TimBradley

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 2:10 am

Mark Payne wrote:Hi All,

I heard back from BM support on this topic, and if I'm understanding right from what they said - the DRP file does have the super source info, however RESOLVE doesn't read it, so in fact, it's an update/change to RESOLVE that would need to happen. It doesn't sound that that feature is in plans to be implemented (they couldn't say), but if enough people request it as a new feature, maybe it'll get prioritized!! :-)

i could be wrong on all this, but from the response from tech support, that's what i garnered.

Cheers,
Mark


Thanks Mark! Great to hear that it may be resolved in Resolve one day.
Tim Bradley
Video Cameraman and Live Streaming Austalia
http://coastvideo.com.au
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babulm

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 5:03 pm

+1

Here's hoping we can see/manage SuperSource on our ISO recordings within Resolve soon! :D

I was quite surprised this wasn't available already. We started using SuperSource since we integrated MixEffect into our live shows, because it's so easy and visual.

I was really hoping we could tweak the camera and SuperSource in Resolve to be better timed.
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Raphaël Jacquot

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostTue Aug 03, 2021 8:26 pm

TimBradley wrote:[quote="Raphaël Jacquot"
..... it will create the appropriate data for resolve to recreate the effect with all the recorded sources


Hi Raphael, I must be missing something as the ISO only records the inputs, As far as I can work out it records nothing about the supersource settings/layout/inputs/animations. So recreating your supersource layout in Davinci is a lot of work. Hopefully I am a wrong and you can let me know how to do it easily.


Thank you,
Tim[/quote]

ah, it should, that's a bug then.
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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostThu Aug 05, 2021 1:02 am

I have recorded a test project going through all kinds of features on the Extreme firmware 8.6.1and looked at the project it created. I also loaded the project into Resolve 17.2.2

The Extreme writes out upstream keyer, cut and transition data. The type of the transition is written out when it is changed, but the transition itself is two different records (start and end).

Picture in picture information is captured too for both DVEs.

No information was written out when selecting the arrangement of Supersource sources, or when inputs were assigned to them. When Supersource was put live, the project contained a use of source 0 which is Black.

When I loaded the project into Resolve, I got the following

No sign of upstream key
Down stream key 1 was actioned in the project but I didn't test that properly, so can't vouch for the visual outcome.
The transitions were all at the proper time, but all the mix ones were a basic disolve. Looks as though Resolve isn't remembering the current setting of the transition type when it reads the project. (Or the format needs to be different when written so the ATEM remebers the type and specifies everything in the same command.)

Single and double picture in picture worked with all the buttons on the Extreme.

Supersource didn't work apart from black appearing when it should be live. As noted above this is due to what the ATEM writes in the project file.

So looks like the ATEM firmware needs an improved version to write out Supersource data. Since PIP worked I am hopeful it shouldn't be too difficult. (Though there are special cases to consider like Supersource and PIP at the same time for a potential six videos at once.)

Hope that sheds some light on things,

Tim
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Robert Baker

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostThu Aug 05, 2021 4:01 pm

Thanks for that info, Tim, and the testing. I just found out, the hard way, that Super Source is not saved into the ISO recording. I hope there is a fix for it soon. While I know that setting the second HDMI output to Super Source and then sending that back into an input would work that would tie up my second output and changes my flexibility.
I could also just take the mixed down recording and edit in the Super Source from that but that makes the process more tedious.
Small List of my current toolset:

BMPCC6k - EVA1 - GH5 - Canon R - DaVinci Resolve Studio - Adobe CC - Sony Soundforge 11 - Izotope RX7 - Izotope Elements
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mac25h

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostMon Feb 28, 2022 10:18 pm

After reading this thread, I now understand it doesn't record supersource into Davinci.
What about upstream keys?

One of my shots is a combination of USK 1 (DVE) and USK 2 (chroma).
In USK 1 with DVE we changed the size, position and added a border. Only the size was retained in the Davinci timeline.
I don't see USK 2 at all in the timeline.

Can someone help me understand if I'm doing something wrong?

Thank you,
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Darryl

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 4:15 am

Mark Payne wrote:Hi All,

I heard back from BM support on this topic, and if I'm understanding right from what they said - the DRP file does have the super source info, however RESOLVE doesn't read it, so in fact, it's an update/change to RESOLVE that would need to happen. It doesn't sound that that feature is in plans to be implemented (they couldn't say), but if enough people request it as a new feature, maybe it'll get prioritized!! :-)

i could be wrong on all this, but from the response from tech support, that's what i garnered.

Cheers,
Mark


I have just found this thread because I have the same issue. However I have been through the drp created by the ATEM, deconstructed the JSON, and there is no super source info in there at all. In the timeline where the ATEM shows the super source, the JSON source is set to black. Super source is not listed as one of the 14 sources that are available, and I can't see anything at all in the JSON that could be connected to Super Source.

I am disappointed that they couldn't even splice in the output from the Program feed when the Super Source is displayed. The individual components are not editable, but at least it's better than black.

Darryl
Darryl Severn
Darbeth Business Tech and Comms

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Livestreaming, Conferences, Information & Education, Events

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Alkoda

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostWed Sep 14, 2022 6:47 am

Yes please Black Magic
Fix this because it’s a big issue

thanks
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Darryl

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Re: ATEM MINI EXTREME ISO - Supersource - does it record?

PostThu Oct 20, 2022 8:28 am

Update

My current workflow is to include the program output as one of the source files in the project. (This is the mp4 file at the same level as the drp file if I haven't explained myself clearly.)

I can set this up as part of the sync bin as it has the same time stamps as the other ISO recordings, and when it comes to the SuperSource sections I just overlay the matching section from this file. It does mean there is no option to switch this clip to the braw equivalent etc. but it is a lot simpler than having to recreate the supersource at every place where it is used.
Darryl Severn
Darbeth Business Tech and Comms

Genres
Livestreaming, Conferences, Information & Education, Events

Kit:
BMPCC 4K, Studio Cam 4K Pro, ATEM Mini Extreme ISO, DaVinci Resolve
Panasonic HC PV100, Behringer XR16, Sennheiser XSW

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