Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

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Daz Wood

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Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 11:53 am

looking at Laptops what would be average to good for editing Panasonic G80 MP4 footage which is:
[4K] 3840x2160: 4K/25p: 100Mbps, [Full HD] 1920x1080: FHD/50p: 28Mbps.

I had in mind something around 1000 to 1200 UK pounds price tag and I have been looking at these 3 models so far, which are:

ASUS Strix GL702ZC 17" 8 Core AMD RYZEN 7 Gaming Laptop ( not Nvidia or thunderbolt)
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/173-asu ... ZaEALw_wcB

OMEN by HP 17-an101na Gaming Laptop - GTX 1060 120Hz thunderbolts 3
https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Prod ... U&sel=NTB&

Dell G3 15 Gaming Laptop ( GTX 1060 thunderbolt 3)
https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops ... op/cn35713

The reason for a laptop is mainly for convenience. I don't really have space to setup a desktop in the house and would need to move from the kitchen to living rooms when needed. I would also like the option of being able to take it out and about if needed.
Thank you

Daz
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 12:44 pm

Hi Daz.

In Resolve the CPU is used to run the app, disk I/O and compression and decompression of codecs.
Resolve does all its image processing in the GPU on the graphics card. More CUDA/OpenCL Cores are better.

I'm not convinced a laptop is ideal for Resolve. And in the DaVinci Resolve 15 Configuration Guide:

http://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/D ... _Guide.pdf

On the lower parts of page 19 is written about laptops. Under both HP and DELL is written, but it is valid for all laptops: 'While performance for many applications and UHD resolutions will be limited'.

So I can only suggest that you read above Configuration_Guide to bring you up to date on what you will need for 4K.

In you price range will I definitive suggest you to build a desktop, as AMD just lowered the price with 50% on previous year model of the 12 cores 24 threads Threadripper CPU. It is called the 1920X. And
nVidea have just announced some new graphics cards called RTX 2080/Ti and the previous GTX 1080 with 8 GB vRam started already to drop in price. An alternative at even lower price can be the AMD RX 580 8GB vRam. But it will also give you lower performance.

For others asking for advises on desktop have a made a small guide that I will copy paste to you:

'Carsten's hardware guide for DaVinchi Resolve. Version from 16. September 2018.

In Resolve the CPU is used to run the app, disk I/O and compression and decompression of codecs.
Resolve does all its image processing in the GPU on the graphics card. More CUDA/OpenCL Cores are better.

I will suggest you to look at the new nVidea RTX Video Card serie. For 4K choose one with 8-11 GB of vRAM. And more CUDA cores is better.
In the last days there have been price drops on the previous generations GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti on Amazon.com. There is a maximum of one graphics card in the free version of Resolve. If you use Noise Reduction etc. then you probably need 2 GPUs with 11 GB vRam each and the paid Studie version of Resolve.

In the DaVinci Resolve 15 configuration guide is one of the suggestion on page 18 the AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPU.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... and-fusion

All AMD CPU's loves fast memory, and on page 36 under GIGABYTE Motherboard:

16GB (4x4GB RAM) DDR4-3200 SDRAM minimum
64GB or 128GB or more recommend for FUSION

On August 13th did AMD launch AMD Threadripper next generation with a little cheaper CPU's. For 4K work look at the new 16 cores 32 threads 2950X that get much better reviews than expected.

When I try to check prices don't I yet see any big price drops on the previous 16 core 32 threads Threadripper 1950X CPU's. So far for 16 core 32 threads CPU will I recommend the new 2950X. While I currently see some large price drops on the 12 core 24 threads 1920X CPU's. May be you can choose it for HD 1920 x 1080 only.

Both the old and new Threadrippers CPU use a TR4 socket and a X399 motherboards. Suggest you to buy one with nice reviews. If you later want to upgrade to a faster CPU will I suggest you to buy a Asus motherboard, as they can be upgraded to a TDP of 250 Watt by buying the X399 cooling enhancement kit coming to September.
For CPU's with more than 20 cores will I look for a motherboard with a 16+3 VRM circuit.

Look here for a Free NVMe RAID upgrade for AMD X399 chipset:

https://community.amd.com/community/gam ... 99-chipset


All motherboard have a QVL List you can find on the manufactures homepage. Here you can see what DDR4-Ram they have tested in that particular motherboard. The Configuration Guide recommend to use minimum DDR4-3200.

The cheapest recommended RAM is many times the G.Skill Flare X DDR4. The Flare X series is made special for AMD CPU's

The Threadripper CPU's have a 4 channel memory design. You will get the fastest system by using 4 DIMM's only, and leave the last 4 sockets empty.

Do you still have some questens you are free to ask.

Regards Carsten.'
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Yes I would go with a Thredripper if I was upgrading my desktop but I feel I could get more editing done a laptop if I was able to use it at home. I will look at the link to guide you posted.

The benefit for me having a laptop is the portability size and weight, how small compact could I get a better spec desktop for at the same price range?

One question I would like to find an answer to is if I did get a laptop with Thunderbolt 3 would I be able to use the port to boost cuda cores?
Thank you

Daz
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 3:54 pm

Ok so the laptop that Blackmagic mention in the guide are not using 10 series NVIDIA cards but AND and NVIDIA quadro. Apart from the ram and harddrive sizes are these less powerful overall than the ones I posted?
Thank you

Daz
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MishaEngel

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 4:08 pm

Your workflow needs a lot of CPU-power(gop workflow) and medio-core GPU power.

Panasonic G80 MP4 footage which is:[4K] 3840x2160: 4K/25p: 100Mbps, [Full HD] 1920x1080: FHD/50p: 28Mbps.


The Ryzen 7 1700 has about 30% more CPU compute power compared to the i7-8750H.
The RX580 has around 50% more fp32 compute power compared to the GTX1060 and 330% more fp32 compute power compared to the GTX1050.

The advantage of thunderbolt 3 is that you can add more GPU power in a later stage.

With your workflow the ASUS looks to be the most value for money.
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Hi.

When I wrote my post did I not expect you to upgrade your Desktop, but to build one more. I don't know now many display ports/HDMI inputs you have on your Display, else can you use some kind of KVM switch to switch between two desktops on one Display, keyboard and mouse.

You will not be able to get a OK Laptop for the same price as a nice Desktop. I know that, I am using the cheap CPU and low priced Graphics cards to make the price difference to look higher. But even next
year will a Resolve Laptop cost more than a Resolve Desktop. And the difference in performance will be huge.

I don't know where you live. But here is some prices from Amazon.co.uk:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X 12-Core Processor CPU, RRP: £799.99, Price: £421.24
And I am sure you can get it even cheaper.

The Threadripper socket is larger than other sockets and I don't know any ITX sized Threadripper motherboards.

But if you really need a tiny Desktop will I suggest you to wait for the Intel Core i9-9900K 8 Cores 16 Threads CPU expected to October. It is expected to cost around 450$ and will use either one of the comming Z390 motherboards or a one of the Z370 existing motherboards. But you will not get the current 50% save on the Threadripper 1920X CPU then.

Here is a link to a very very small ITX Case with space for one 3.5" hard drive:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/pro ... odel=RVZ01

And an review with pictures:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sil ... ven_RVZ01/

But normally will I recommend something larger with better cooling. But you ask how small and compact.

I don't recommend Tunderbolts as it is only using 4 PCIe lanes. The PCI slot inside a desktop motherboard are using all 16 PCIe lanes.

Here my answers to you second post: The current Resolve 15 configuration guide is outdated. Peter Chamberlain from BMD is already working on a review of it.

And the comming Intel Core i9-9900K is stronger than the Ryzen 7 1700.

Regards Carsten.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 pm

I know more power is better but I am looking at this like a mobile phone plan, allowing 24 months to pay it off. My top budget is £1200 including 20% UK VAT but would like to include Davinci Resolve Studio in that. I feel a desk top is going to push the price too high. The reason for a laptop is mainly for convenience and so I can edit more at home and move move from the kitchen to living rooms when needed. I would also like the option of being able to take it out too from time to time.
Thank you

Daz
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MishaEngel

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 pm

Daz Wood wrote:Ok so the laptop that Blackmagic mention in the guide are not using 10 series NVIDIA cards but AND and NVIDIA quadro. Apart from the ram and harddrive sizes are these less powerful overall than the ones I posted?


The configuration guide from Blackmagic is nothing more than a guide line.
The message in this guide line in summary is:

1) Use Windows 10, MacOS or Unix
2) Use atleast 16 GB of memory (32 is better, specially when you also want to use Fusion).
3) When using a laptop get one with the fastest processor you can find.
(R7-1700 is blazing fast for a laptop because it is a desktop processor).
4) Make sure the GPU is upto it's task (4 GB VRAM for 4k/UHD, 8 GB VRAM for 6k and
16 GB VRAM for 8k) lots of fp32 compute power (RX580 has 5.8 TFlops of those GTX1070 also has
5.8 TFlops).



The Asus you mentioned has about the same speed as the desktop system mentioned in this video


i.o.w. it's the absolute most powerful editing laptop for this kind of money and easily fast enough for your workflow.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 8:38 pm

MishaEngel wrote:
Daz Wood wrote:Ok so the laptop that Blackmagic mention in the guide are not using 10 series NVIDIA cards but AND and NVIDIA quadro. Apart from the ram and harddrive sizes are these less powerful overall than the ones I posted?


The configuration guide from Blackmagic is nothing more than a guide line.
The message in this guide line in summary is:

1) Use Windows 10, MacOS or Unix
2) Use atleast 16 GB of memory (32 is better, specially when you also want to use Fusion).
3) When using a laptop get one with the fastest processor you can find.
(R7-1700 is blazing fast for a laptop because it is a desktop processor).
4) Make sure the GPU is upto it's task (4 GB VRAM for 4k/UHD, 8 GB VRAM for 6k and
16 GB VRAM for 8k) lots of fp32 compute power (RX580 has 5.8 TFlops of those GTX1070 also has
5.8 TFlops).



The Asus you mentioned has about the same speed as the desktop system mentioned in this video


i.o.w. it's the absolute most powerful editing laptop for this kind of money and easily fast enough for your workflow.


Thanks for your comment. I was thinking it was a fast laptop but with everyone generally talking about NVIDIA CUDA cores I was slightly put off and was looking at Intel with Thunderbolt 3. I must admit I do like the idea of using Ryzen.
Thank you

Daz
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 8:42 pm

Daz Wood wrote: I feel a desk top is going to push the price too high.


Hi.

I used 15 min to find the prices for all the expensive components for a Threadripper build:

£374 AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X 12 Core from idealo.co.uk
£290 ASUS PRIME X399-A Socket TR4 from amazon.co.uk
£298 ASUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB from amazon.co.uk
£157 3200MHZ DDR4 DIMM (Kit of 4 x 4 GB) from Amazon.co.uk
£1119 Subtotal

A place where you can save some money will be, if you buy the graphics card second hand. Either a Radeon RX 580 8 GB or may be a Radeon RX 480 8 GB. But I expect Misha to know more about the AMD Radions Graphics Cards than me.

Regards Carsten.
Last edited by Carsten Sellberg on Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 8:57 pm

Carsten Sellberg wrote:
Daz Wood wrote: I feel a desk top is going to push the price too high.


Hi.

I used 15 min to find the prices for all the expensive components for a Threadripper build:

£374 AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X 12 Core from idealo.co.uk
£290 ASUS PRIME X399-A Socket TR4 from amazon.co.uk
£298 ASUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB from amazon.co.uk
£157 HyperX HX432C16PB3K4/16 3200MHZ DDR4 Non-ECC CL9 DIMM (Kit of 4 x 4 GB) from Amazon.co.uk
£1119 Subtotal

A place where you can save some money will be, if you buy the graphics card second hand. Either a Radeon RX 580 8 GB or may be a Radeon RX 480 8 GB. But I expect Misha to know more about the AMD Radions Graphics Cards than me.

Regards Carsten.


Thanks Carsten they are some great prices but adding storage devices, PSU, case, display monitor, keyboard and mouse, speakers and anything else I have forgotten the price starts to get too high.

Good way to go for others who are reading this though if a desktop is needed.
Thank you

Daz
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MishaEngel

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Hats off for your researce Daz, you found the best value for money laptop for 4k I've seen (and I've seen a lot of them) with the ASUS Strix GL702ZC 17".
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSun Sep 16, 2018 10:31 pm

ok I bit the bullet and will now be the hopefully the proud owner of a new 17.3" ASUS ROG Strix GL702ZC-GC104T, FHD FreeSync, AMD Ryzen 7 1700, 16GB DDR4, 256GB M.2 SSD+1TB HDD, 4GB RX 580, Win10.

I will let you all know how it works out.
Thank you

Daz
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostMon Sep 17, 2018 3:55 am

Hi.

First congratulation with your decision.

I don't know where you are going to buy it. So far I only see it to £1,640 here

'Asus Ryzen R7 1700 16GB 1TB 256GB 17.3" SSD AMD RX580 4GB Win10'

https://www.shop.bt.com/products/asus-r ... 0f2099d2ff

Here is a link to a review:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG- ... 548.0.html

Under System Noise do I read:

'the fans reach up to 57 dB under full load. This is extremely loud and gets annoying very quickly.'

That is really very loud. Have you considered how loud its really is?

The level of sound is measured in decibel (db) in a logarithmic scale. An increase of each 3 db, double the level of the sound. More info in the beginning of this link:

https://www.noisehelp.com/decibel-scale.html

Regards Carsten.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostMon Sep 17, 2018 7:30 am

Carsten Sellberg wrote:Hi.

First congratulation with your decision.

I don't know where you are going to buy it. So far I only see it to £1,640 here

'Asus Ryzen R7 1700 16GB 1TB 256GB 17.3" SSD AMD RX580 4GB Win10'

https://www.shop.bt.com/products/asus-r ... 0f2099d2ff

Here is a link to a review:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG- ... 548.0.html

Under System Noise do I read:

'the fans reach up to 57 dB under full load. This is extremely loud and gets annoying very quickly.'

That is really very loud. Have you considered how loud its really is?

The level of sound is measured in decibel (db) in a logarithmic scale. An increase of each 3 db, double the level of the sound. More info in the beginning of this link:

https://www.noisehelp.com/decibel-scale.html

Regards Carsten.


I found a fantastic deal from Scan.co.uk which was £1,049.99 including free next day delivery.

I am aware of the sound levels that the cooling can get too but as long as the sound is air from the vents I can live which that. My old Acer 5755G laptop I am using now has a constant loud mid pitch fan sound that is there all the time and when it gets hot it can be a little annoying. Hopefully the Asus is going to be more tolerable. I am going to do a review when I get it for anyone who may be interested.
Thank you

Daz
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Carsten Sellberg

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostMon Sep 17, 2018 8:17 am

Hi.

I hope you can live with the noise. Else, may be you can consider to do, what the gamers do. They use a headset.

Looking forward to see you review.

And again Congralation with you new Laptop.

Regards Carsten.
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Daz Wood

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 6:32 pm

Just done a Cinebench Test on my new ASUS GL702ZC Ryzen 7 laptop.

Thank you

Daz
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MishaEngel

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Re: Laptops what is the good bad and the ugly?

PostSat Sep 22, 2018 7:00 pm

That are extremely good scores Daz.

Here are the others:

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_benchmark-cinebench_r15_multi_core-8

It really has desktop speed and is faster than the fastest iMacPro for £3,000.- (CPU and GPU).

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