Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs alone.

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peterjackson

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Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs alone.

PostTue Jan 01, 2019 9:12 pm

The intention of this post is to serve as a container for issues others and I reported over the last months that are in my humble opinion all caused by Resolve also dispatching work to integrated Intel GPUs on laptops with an additional Nvidia GPU.

What is the point? I spend some time trying to debug the issues I have with Resolve on my XPS 9750 (specs below) and figured they all completely disappear for good once I prevent Resolve from recognizing / using the integrated Intel GPU. This however has unacceptable side effects, hence this post begging for a fix on the Resolve side to ignore the integrated GPU for good.

The trouble with virtually all modern dual GPU laptops is that it is not possible to disable the integrated GPU via BIOS or other means as the integrated GPU is what drives the screen of the laptop and whatever the Nvidia card possibly renders needs to be relayed back to the Intel GPU to actually display it on screen.

However, it’s possible to disable the Intel GPU from the Device Manager on Win 10. That way it stays physically active and still does the relaying, but is no longer visible to the OS and applications using its APIs to query for the list of GPUs in the system. This has various side effects. At least it breaks: Ability to use multiple displays, switching of the active display, both the Nvidia and Intel control panel apps, selection of refresh rates, power management and display settings. So, this is just a hack to force Resolve to ignore the integrated GPU for testing, not a usable workaround.

Sometimes external display port or HDMI connectors are wired directly to the Nvidia card on such laptops, sometimes they are also relayed through the Intel GPU. As for the XPS 9750 online sources seem to indicated that the display port connector is wired directly to the Nvidia card, while the Nvidia control panel software seems to suggests otherwise. So, I’m not 100% sure about it. I’m just mentioning this as my testing indicates that at least one crash issue disappears if only an external display is connected (I guess wired to the Nvidia card) and the internal laptop display is disabled. When trying to reproduce the issues this post is about, please be sure to use only the internal laptop screen with no screens attached to external connectors, so the relaying is actually happening for sure.

Now before people start to complain that the GTX 1050 Ti of the XPS 9750 is underpowered and it’s not a valid platform to work on anyways: Yes, Razor Core X and GTX 1080 Ti should arrive early next week. I’m however pretty sure, I’ll still see Resolve dispatching work to the integrated GPU and crash out as well with the Razor Core connected. Plus, looking around these forums, lots of people seems to be looking for a laptop platform to at least get some basic editing done on the road that does not involve color sensitive work and virtually all laptops these days do relay through an integrated Intel GPU.

Below is a list of issues with their matching logs, threads and what I learned about them during testing:

1.) Resolve crashes hard when attempting to browse a media folder in thumbnail view on the media page.This has been reported by others and me. For me this started to happen with 15.2.x, and never happened with 15.1.x or any earlier versions of Resolve. This issue is completely gone both with disabled Intel GPU or when only an external display is active via display port. Changelogs of 15.2.x mention performance improvement for the viewer on laptops with Intel GPU. As far as I understand it attempts to do more work on the Intel GPU for better display performance. Maybe this change has something to do with it. It makes NO difference whether H264/H265 hardware decoding is on or off in settings.

Logs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/257uxr2ugrhps ... 0.zip?dl=0
Threads: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=83963 and viewtopic.php?f=21&t=83965

2.) Resolve allocates all 32GB main memory within seconds, 100 GB of swap, becomes unresponsive and finally dies when quickly previewing multiple H265 (8 bit, 200Mbit, 60fps, 4k) clips on the media page or elsewhere. I’m 100% positive from monitoring tools that Resolve is dispatching hardware video decode for H264/H265 to the Intel GPU once the Nvidia GPU is too busy from being asked to decode many different clips in a short time. It never recovers from this. The Nvidia GPU becomes idle, the Intel GPU is busy in hardware video decode until Resolves dies with out of memory. This issue is complete gone for good with the Intel GPU disabled. Haven’t tested the other case with an external display only for this issue yet. I can supply the H265 files if necessary for repo.

Logs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3so2fnz9fduzg ... 7.zip?dl=0
Thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=82333

3.) Generation of optimized media with hardware decoded H264/H265 no longer possible with 15.2.x, works with 15.1.x and earlier versions. Since 15.2.x any attempt to generate optimized media with hardware H264/H265 triggers issue 2.) and runs out of memory. I’m 100% positive from monitoring tools that Resolve is dispatching hardware video decode for H264/H265 to the Intel GPU in addition to the Nvidia card. This issue is also complete gone for good with the Intel GPU disabled. Haven’t tested the other case with an external display only for this issue yet.

Logs and thread see 2.)

4.) Smooth timeline playback no longer possible with 15.2.2
as Resolve also starts to dispatch video decode and as it seems also compute to the Intel GPU at least once the Nvidia GPU can't keep up. However it seems once it decided to schedule work to the Intel GPU it never comes back to the Nvidia GPU at all. Only a restart of Resolve helps. No thread it logs yet.

For none of these issues it made any difference if GPU selection mode in settings was set to auto or manual with only Nvidia GPU selected. Also toggling use display GPU for compute didn’t change anything.

Now as far as I know Resolve already has lots of special handling for Intel GPUs. They don't appear in the list of selectable GPUs in settings and should be mostly ignored by Resolve as they are too slow. However recently it seems some adjustments have been made to silently dispatch some work to Intel GPUs for smoother playback on laptops. My ask about is simple: Make it transparent. Reintroduce the Intel GPUs in the list of selectable GPUs in settings and allow users to opt out or in for these optimization. For now it breaks everything and makes Resolve unusable. No possibly better playback performance could be worth it. That way users can try these optimizations from time to time as you may improve them but have a stable system otherwise.

Platform info: @Dwaine Maggart I sent you the system info NFO.

XPS 9750, 32GB RAM, GTX 1050 Ti, 2TB NVM, BIOS 1.6, Win 10 latest patches, latest Nvidia driver from GeForce Experience.

I don’t want to end with too much crying, but with Laptop, eGPU, Resolve Studio, Resolve Training, BM IO hardware and screens it is a fair bit of money spend and I still can’t use Resolve for anything.

As this system is only used for Resolve I can offer unlimited access to it over team viewer, the ability to install any debuggers or dev tools, me capturing additional dumps via procdump or similar if the mini dumps Resolve creates seem not sufficient or provide source media. I’m also willing to ship this Laptop over to wherever Resolve devs can take as look at it. I really want to be able to finally use Resolve.

Thanks for looking into it.
Last edited by peterjackson on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostWed Jan 02, 2019 6:35 am

I would bet the Razer and 1080 GPU will work very well.
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Luxian

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 7:42 am

Kudos for debugging this @peterjackson. I have the same laptop configuration as you (except 1TB storage). Resolve is unusable and I didn't know why. I also experience 2) and 4) on a project with h265 footage from a DJI Mavic 2. 1) and 3) are probably less obvious if you don't spend time debugging.

Based on what I saw on reddit, the Intel GPU is always connect even when the external monitor is connected and the nvidia GPU is acting more like a processing unit for the Intel graphics card. All of this is apparently done to eliminate a dedicated chip that can switch display connection from on GPU to another that some laptops have (for example Macbook Pros).

I'm gonna try to find out if I can downgrade Resolve or wait until the fix is released. Anyway, I makes me less anxious now that I know what the issue. Thanks!
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Benjamin de Menil

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostFri Jan 11, 2019 11:43 pm

I'm not able to even get Resolve running on my Asus GX501G with Nvidia 1080 max q. In configuration Resolve says my GPU is under-powered. And then resolve's UI just never boots. I assume Resolve is detecting the wrong GPU. I've seen users complaining online about this problem and proposing various fixes - none yet have worked for me.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostSat Jan 12, 2019 11:46 am

I'd appreciate a reply from Dwaine Maggart or Peter Chamberlain on what the the state of this issue is. The BMCC4K and the Micro Panel is sitting on my shopping list for while. Holding these purchases due to silence on this issue is a bit frustrating.

Meanwhile the Razer and 1080 Ti arrived. I'm just not home until next weekend to try that setup. Will update.

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XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 4:29 pm

Just tried the eGPU. I'm so pissed, I have no words. Another 1000 eur wasted. 50 times worse than without. I tired every combination of enabled GPUs, use display GPU, optimized transfer for viewers, auto/manual.

I verified thunderbold 3 throughout (2400Mi/sec) with CudaZ and GPUZ. So it's indeed 4 PCIe lanes as it should.

Latest Nvidia driver, latest Intel drivers, latest TB3 firmware, latest TB3 driver (versions follow). Furmark yields 212fps, so 4 times more than the build in 1050.

And, what does Resolve? Display 40-60 fps and a green dot at times, but actually display a single frame every 2 to 5 seconds in the viewer. What the hell. And that is on an HD timeline with optimized media. That even plays smooth on the Intel GPU.

Needless to say, the display is obviously connected to the GTX 1080 Ti and the internal display is disabled.

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XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 4:59 pm

The latest Nvidia driver is not always the right one.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 5:26 pm

I just downgraded the Intel one from 6471 to 6278. Now it's at least around 10fps playback. Still non-sense, that Resolve displays a green dot for 60fps. What is that even good for? Not sure how the Intel driver matters as no load is on the Intel GPU and it has no display connected.

Rendering things out is now 4 times faster and Nvenc works with the 1080 Ti. But what is that worth, if I can't edit anything anymore with Resolve? Is there a particular Nvidia driver you recommended? 3.99?

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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 5:29 pm

Deleted
Last edited by peterjackson on Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 5:48 pm

Downgraded to the magic 399. No change at all. Green dot most of the time. Maybe 5 fps actual in the viewer.

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XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 6:01 pm

Looks a bit like a bandwidth issue to me. When Resolve is playing in the Edit tab even all of the Windows UI starts to stutter. Is anyone out there actually using Resolve on a Windows laptop with eGPU?

Seems the only people happy with Resolve either run a Mac or a Windows desktop. Windows laptops and Linux doesn't seem a platform anyone is using successfully.

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XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 6:12 pm

What does 100% copy mean? Is that the TB3 connection limiting?
IMG-20190114-WA0002.jpeg
IMG-20190114-WA0002.jpeg (72.45 KiB) Viewed 735 times


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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 6:18 pm

I have the same problem with my PC and it is absolutely not underpowered. i7-8700K, 32 GB memory, nvidia 1080GTX, SSD's....

Crashes, hangups, stops during rendering... I can't finish any project.

I know that it is not fair to compare but... I did the same project with Edius (9.3) and that worked like a charm: little memory used; it uses the built-in GPU and finishes the project (H.264 and H.265).

Why can Edius do the trick and Resolve not????
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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 6:56 pm

In regards to understanding the GPU section of the task manager, this might be of interest: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2017/07/21/gpus-in-the-task-manager/

A GPU engine represents an independent unit of silicon on the GPU that can be scheduled and can operate in parallel with one another. For example, a copy engine may be used to transfer data around while a 3D engine is used for 3D rendering. While the 3D engine can also be used to move data around, simple data transfers can be offloaded to the copy engine, allowing the 3D engine to work on more complex tasks, improving overall performance. In this case both the copy engine and the 3D engine would operate in parallel.

60fps does sound like a lot of copying. I currently only have 25fps footage online in my system, but playing back 3.2K Alexa Mini ProRes footage in a 1080/25 timeline gives me 0% Copy load, so I got the other extreme end.

What framerate do you get in the color page? If I remember correctly, Resolve will always attempt to keep playback at realtime on the Edit page, even if that means skipping frames. So while it might not technically be playing at 60fps, it is playing 10 seconds of your timeline in 10 seconds. That's what the green dot tells you, if I am not mistaken. On the Color page, it will playback every frame, sacrificing the realtime.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 7:02 pm

Here is how it looks in different tools. What is my problem? Nvidia 399 vs 417 makes no difference. The older Intel driver is much better, though. Not sure how that even can be, the Intel driver should be out of the loop to my understanding.
Untitled.jpeg
Untitled.jpeg (97.38 KiB) Viewed 720 times


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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 7:04 pm

Will upload somewhere else. That was salcaled down.

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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 7:05 pm

Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xs14c7wz13s5n ... d.png?dl=0

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Christian Lessner

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 7:18 pm

For comparison, here are the numbers of an internal 1080Ti.

Image
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm

Thanks. For me its at 2300 MiB Host <-> Device when idle. It goes down under load. Not sure what that number means. Is it generating traffic itself or just monitoring?

Still, less than 1/5th of what you get. Makes me feel that the Resolve on eGPU idea is one big scam. Sound like Resolve is probably the worst application to run on an eGPU, when it needs to move so much data.

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Try connecting screen to eGPU then it won't have to move data so much. In case it has to do it then there is no magic. TB3 about 3.5Gbytes/sec is not that fast as it sounds. It's quite slow when we talk about GPU-CPU data transfers. If data has to come back form eGPU to main machine to another GPU or CPU then you will hit limits at UHD at about 35fps (for 3 channels of 32bit data). It also depends what exactly travels then eg. 3 or 4 channels of 32bit data. This is also ideal scenario, in reality there may be some other factors playing role.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 10:03 pm

There is only a single HD display connected to the eGPU. Internal laptop display is disabled. Still, I wonder how changing the Intel driver can have such an influence or any influence at all.

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Uli Plank

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 4:31 am

Incorrect graphics drivers can generate all kinds of problems.

When I tested the eGPU from BM with my machine (Radeon Pro 580 too) I got up to 82% gain with demanding filters like NR and a few others. Connecting a second screen to either my iMac or the GPU didn't make much of a difference.
But connecting one more screen to the eGPU and having an UHD loop running on it with a software player at the same time made the speed in DR go down (as expected).

But we are getting off topic here…
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 7:09 am

Well, everything loaded in kernel space can obviously cause all kinds of issues. Point was more it should not. However unloading the intel driver and disabling the device yields the same performance as with the older driver loaded. Seems that's as good as it gets.

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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 9:16 am

TNR might we one of the cases an eGPU can be sensible. It's computational expensive and works between frames in vram. But what gives, if editing with an 1080 Ti becomes slower than with an onbaord iGPU alone.

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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 4:52 pm

Whatever, I'll wait for 15.3 before selling that thing an ebay.

Unfortunately, noone from BM feels like replying to any of the reported issues and logs.

Additionally, specifing which drivers Resolve was tested and developed against would really help a lot of people. Everyone just tries random versions of everything. A big waste of time. If it's documented that Resolve was testes against Nvidia 399, then that's at least a starting point.
XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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peterjackson

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 7:20 am

As already mentioned in other threads, 15.2.3 fixed virtually all the iGPU related issues reported in the original thread. Thanks Dwaine and Peter for taking this to your dev teams and making it possible for me and others to use Resolve.
XPS 9750, i9-8950HK, 32GB, 2TB NVM, Intel 630, GTX 1050 Ti, 1080 Ti eGPU, Mini Monitor, BMCC4K. Versions: BIOS 1.7.0, Intel 630 24.20.100.6287, Nvidia 25.21.14.1881, Thunderbolt 17.4.77.13, Win10 Enterprise 10.0.17134.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Please BM, fix Resolve to leave integrated Intel GPUs al

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 7:51 am

That is excellent news! I know TB3 is a little flakey on some Windows machines, but I think this situation is improving.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood

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