SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

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rick.lang

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 2:50 pm

In case anyone is curious, with further testing, I found the 25mm APO witness marks to miss the mark at longer distances even though it appeared to be good with the added 0.025 shim on the camera PL mount. The 85mm APO is accurate across all witness marks tested (up to the 20' mark). My 50mm APO is off at all distances tested. A small price to pay perhaps for being an early adopter and receiving some of the first production lenses in this family. So next week I'll be returning, via RMA, all lenses for SLR Magic to bring to a consistent behaviour for the set with the additional 0.025 shim on the camera.

This will be a happy ending! SLR Magic has been terrific in their support. I think they made the right decision going with the 25mm, 50mm, and 85mm for this initial three lens set. Now I'm very used to how they perform in terms of framing a shot, not having the 32mm 'normal Super 35' lens has not been a drawback. Hopefully my bank balance will get healthy next year and we shall see the additional APO lenses released. But I'm good with what I have. Lovely glass.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 6:22 pm

Great, just saw this post after sending you the PM. I started out with the Veydra 16mm, 25mm and 35mm set (would be like a 32/35, 50, 85mm set on your APOs), was planning to add the Veydra 12mm to give me the wide you get with the 25mm APO (may still do).
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 6:31 pm

Yes, I'd say the 12mm Veydra is a perfect companion for the MFT mount cameras. Still have an interest in supplementing the Mini with a Micro, but I'd look very strange using my large PL mount lenses (with PL->MFT passive adapter). So although the Micro is quite inexpensive, I'd be wanting to add Veydras too. Mucho dineros, compadres.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 6:48 pm

Well Rick, you get a Micro and the Veydra 12mm, and between us we will have full set 12-35mm to share!
Now to confidence Customs, we are shipping the same lens set back and forth, and not importing new gear! Then again, If we move north, then we will be in the same area... :roll:
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 7:05 pm

Easier to immigrate with all your worldly (and other worldly) possessions than negotiate with Canada Customs!


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu Nov 10, 2016 1:30 am

I hear you Rick! :mrgreen:
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Dec 28, 2016 6:46 am

Way back on December 9th, I posted I was returning the APO primes for adjustments. Well the lenses seem to have been gone long enough to make it around the world twice, but they arrived back in Hong Kong today. Hope they come back to Victoria a lot faster than that!

It's a long story, won't bore you with the details, but I'm relieved at least they haven't gone astray.


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Kjell Erik Egeland

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 9:25 am

Hi Rick.
I have the 50mm Apo, and are concidering getting the rest of the series. I am also planning on getting the Image enhancer and the SLR Magic vari ND. The filter size for the 50mm is 62mm, but the rest of the series has a filter size of 82mm. Would you get a 62mm to 82mm step up ring, or is it a better solution to have two sets of filters? I like the lens, but the difference in filter size is a bit annoying...

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 1:41 pm

Kjell, here's my recipe for cooking with the APO family.

1) Heliopan brass 62-82mm step-up ring. More expensive than other rings but using brass prevents the inevitable binding of other metal to the additional filter threads or the lens threads. Brass allows you to control the ring easily. That said, do not screw on any ring or filter completely and certainly not until it's tight. Leave a little slack. Different materials expand and contract differently in response to heat and cold, so a tight fit in a cool environment might be 'glued' together in a warm environment.

2) I mount the Image Enhancer Pro 62mm filter to the 50mm APO at all times. I mount the 82mm IE Pro to the 25mm and 85mm as needed. So that's the first filter closest to the lens front element.

3) To minimize any chance of vignetting with wider focal lengths, standardize on 82mm filters. So use the SLR Magic Vari-ND Mark II 82mm filter, not the 77mm filter. I place that filter on top of the IE Pro filter if used or closest to the front element of the lens. The Vari-ND filter screws on the 25mm and 85mm lens directly and screws on the Heliopan 62-82mm step-up ring mounted to the 50mm APO prime. The Vari-ND II has three rings to adjust so keep all rings loose so one of them doesn't bind to another. The ring closest to the lens is used to set the degree of polarization, turn it to get the desired effect and then rotate the middle ring gently to set it. The outer ring determines the strength of light filtration from ND 0.4 (Min) 1 1/3 stops to ND 1.8 (Max) 6 stops. The maximum setting prevents the dreaded X-factor cross ruining your shot which otherwise could happen as you pan and tilt your camera. The Vari-ND front ring has an 86mm filter for stacking other filters. If you have a matte box, you don't need to mount other screw-on filters.

4) The first filter in the light path is the infrared Cut filter. when I want to be as small and light as possible, I use the 86mm Schneider B+W 486 MRC IR Cut filter designed to cut IR around 680nm like the Hoya and Firecrest. That works best with BMD sensors using normal and long lenses. On wide angle lenses like the 25mm, it may cut into the deep red wavelengths but I haven't tested that yet.

5) When using the matte box, I use the Schneider 715 4x4" 4mm IR Cut. Schneider also has a 680 IR Cut and that is the better filter as it turns out for normal and long lenses, but I expect the 715 filter will be preferable on the 25mm and wider focal lengths. Others have found the 680nm IR Cut works well on their wide lenses, but my suspicion is that it works too well on wider lenses and cuts some of the deep red which you want to preserve for the best skin tone. BMD has mild IR filtration with their sensor glass precisely to keep their skin tones rich. The IE Pro also reduces IR but doesn't cut it. I found the IE Pro combined with the 715 still allowed infrared pollution on the normal and long focal lengths, but need to test with the 25mm.


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Last edited by rick.lang on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 1:50 pm

Wow such a great answer makes me almost forgive you for calling me Knell ;) I have no experience with IR cut filters, so I really appreciate you sharing about your experience!
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:09 pm

Kjell, the auto spelling feature on the iDevice often corrects a name and I don't notice that happening. I wish auto spelling didn't apply to proper names!

As for no experience with IR Cut filters, there are others who choose not to use infrared cut filters. It's not going to be a problem in many shots so they can get away with it. But when shooting certain materials, it will be a problem such as black synthetics. When shooting outdoor scenes it may discolour the leaves on the trees for example. I use it pretty much all the time on the APO primes as insurance.

But I frequently shoot outdoors with my naked Fujinon cine zoom without any footage spoiled! Now I finally own a Bright Tangerine Misfit Atom matte box though, I have the Schneider IR Cut on board with the Fujinon.


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Last edited by rick.lang on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:15 pm

Hehe I know.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:17 pm

But what you are saying is that we need more of the spectrum on wider lenses? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I have never heard that before.
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:31 pm

Not quite what I'm saying. I'm saying the behaviour of the IR Cut filters can vary with the incident angle of the light hitting the filter when the IR Cut is mounted in front of the lens. So when you use a very wide angle a filter that is described as cutting around 715 nm and actually does that for mild wide and normal and longer focal lengths, may actually be cutting at shorter wavelengths for the wider focal lengths. I only have the 25mm APO, but expect to have an 18mm APO eventually and I'll need to test that too when it's released.

It's physics, but I haven't seen it discussed and proven yet. Even Schneider that offers a set of IR Cut for 680, 715, and 750nm doesn't discuss the issue, but leaves it to the cinematographer to determine when to use the various filters. I wish Schneider was more forthright about this, as I may have bought an expensive filter for nothing.

I'll give it a test when I can. I may be right in principle, but where the effect shows up needs to be determined and it might be at 14mm or 10mm in which case, I'll never need to worry about it as I don't expect to have those lenses on the 4.6K sensor. But then I'll need to buy the Schneider 680 IR Cut after all. Or buy high quality IRND filters which makes more sense!

This Christmas shooting break I'm buried editing footage when I'm not cooking and entertaining!


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 pm

I wonder if it's simply an edge thing, because of the wider field of view the light on the side isn't as focused? In other words, the same IR cut will work in the sweet spot, but not on the sides of a very wide lens. So, it's a diffraction joke.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 2:56 pm

Hmm.
SLR magic said this: "In order that you can use the 82mm variable ND II with our APO lenses without vignette, we suggest that you order the SLR Magic Image Enhancer Pro 86mm, so that you can screw it in front of the SLR Magic 82mm variable ND II."

I guess that there is no vignette with the 25mm since you have not had any trouble with it. But maby this will become an issue with wider focal lengths. Do you see any downsides with putting the IE between the IR cut and the vari ND filter?
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 3:29 pm

No, that's a good recommendation, but it came out after I already purchased the 82mm IE Pro. At the time, the 82mm was the largest option available. Good find! Woulda, coulda, shoulda.


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PostMon Jan 02, 2017 3:31 pm

Jason, I think you're correct. It may only affect the edges of the frame, but when I test I'll have my subject's face cover all of the frame or pan appropriately to cover all areas.

Of course, if anyone else with a very wide lens that covers the 4.6K sensor would care to test their 680nm IR Cut, by all means, please do!


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 3:51 pm

The only sensors I have that are Super 35 or bigger is on my Canon 6D and 5Dmk3. I've never used an IR cut filter on them because it's built-in. On shows where a Red was rented I never went wider than 25mil.

It might be a year before I can get back with you on this one, Rick. lol Anyone else?
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 02, 2017 4:54 pm

It might be a year before an 18mm APO lens test, that's for sure.


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PostSun May 28, 2017 2:44 am

Jason, if you can't wait for SLR Magic to complete their APO primes, maybe you want to jump on this circa 1958 Panavision Panatar Anamorphosis:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUm3aOEl1di/

Talk about vintage lenses holding the value while most cameras have a brief half-life.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 28, 2017 9:02 am

Has anyone done any direct comparison tests between the SLR Magic cine (and / or APO) and Veydra Mini Prime lenses?

Besides size and cost, what are the similarities and differences. I know that the Veydras hold up against Zeiss in sharpness, but what about 'character', i.e. colour, contrast, blooming and flares? I know that the SLR Magics have a more vintage look to them; do the Veydras resemble Zeiss more modern neutral look, or do they have a character as well?

Thank's in advance.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 28, 2017 4:41 pm

Thomas, first, the main difference between the SLR Magic APOs and the Veydra Mini Primes, is the Veydra's are not an Anamorphic (APO) design lens, but a more traditional 1980-90s design based on the Zeiss Cine Primes, like the Zeiss Ultra Prime, and cut nicely with this and the newer Super Speed Mk3 lenses. The Zeiss CP primes are modified Zeiss still camera lenses, and have their own look, somewhere between vintage lenses and the Zeiss Cine primes.

The Veydra's have a a more Zeiss (Ultra/Super Speed) look, but some subtle differences, with its own overall character. Trying to compare them to SLR APOs or older vintage lenses, is like trying to compare apples to oranges! Older Zeiss Cine lenses, Cookes, and Angenieux all have their own unique look. Their are several examples of Veydra lens tests and reviews which discuss their "look". My experience with the images they produce is very close to my Zeiss Mk3 Super Speed (less the Ninja Star Iris) and the newer Illumina/Elite Cine Primes I have. The only down side to the Veydra's for me, is they do not have a PL mount option, only MFT, C and Sony E mount, which is nice in its own right, giving some flexibility with the lens mount.

The APOs are a modern Apochromatic design, and are in a league with other APO primes, which like the Veydra's are at a fraction of the cost of Zeiss, Cooke and Angenieux Cine primes, which is the only similarity between the two (SLR and Veydra). Also the APOs are Full Frame 35 size lenses, come in a PL mount, while the Veydra's are for standard 35 (25mm-85mm) and smaller sensor cameras (12/16mm are MFT max size sensor converse), and were originally offered as a option to using older used Cine lenses on MFT size sensor cameras.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 28, 2017 5:02 pm

Denny Smith wrote:the main difference between the SLR Magic APOs and the Veydra Mini Primes, is the Veydra's are not an Anamorphic (APO) design lens


Wasn't aware that the APO's were anamorphic lenses. Are you shure? I have been searching for info on the APO's and cannot find any reference to them being anamorphic. But I found this other set of SLR Magic anamorphic prime lenses: https://www.cinema5d.com/new-slr-magic-anamorphic-lenses-producing-vintage-look/

Denny Smith wrote:The Veydra's have a a more Zeiss (Ultra/Super Speed) look, but still a little different, with its own character. Trying to compare them to SLR APOs or older vintage lenses, is like trying to compare apples to oranges!


So the Veydras have a more "modern" look, but with some character to their own? That's what I figured. A big advantage to the Veydra is the price; you will buy a 50mm Veydra for half the price of a SLR Magic APO lens, at least on B&H.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 28, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks Thomas, my mixup :oops: I meant Apochromatic, a mixup on my part, they are not Anamorphic design lenses, that is, as you pointed out, something entirely different. Yes SLRM makes a Amaorphic set of lenses too, but these are different and unique in their own right.

APOs, "Achromatic lenses are corrected to bring two wavelengths (typically red and blue) into focus in the same plane. Apochromatic lenses are designed to bring three wavelengths (typically red, green, and blue) into focus in the same plane. The residual color error (secondary spectrum) can be up to an order of magnitude less than for an achromatic lens of equivalent aperture and focal length. Apochromats are also corrected for spherical aberration at two wavelengths, rather than one as in an achromat."

So the Veydras have a more "modern" look, but with some character to their own?

Yes, but the Veydra's are not Apochromatic.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 28, 2017 5:52 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
So the Veydras have a more "modern" look, but with some character to their own?

Yes, but the Veydra's are not Apochromatic.


O.k. Yes. That's probably what you pay twice as much for. In this review...


...the only complaint is that the Veydra exhibits some chromatic abberation, espacially in the corners.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon May 29, 2017 12:50 am

That is because the Veydra's and Super Speeds are not an APO lenses Thomas. All non APO lenses have some degree of CA at the edges and corners, better lenses have better CA control here than less expensive lenses. This is one of the things you pay for with better quality lenses.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 5:10 pm

Hey guys!

any updates on the 32mm APO?

Will it be full frame like the other ones?

Same size & Tstop too??
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 1:40 am

The SLR Magic APO 32mm is expected to be released in the first quarter 2018. I should think that means at NAB 2018, we shall see a copy from the first production run. It is expected to perform with the same specs as the other APO primes including the lens housing and filters.

The 18mm and 135mm APO are currently expected to be released later this year, but I imagine we shall hear more at one of the trade shows like IBC 2018 in September. I don’t speak for SLR Magic of course, but just trying to respond to the previous message with what we can anticipate.
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PostMon Jan 15, 2018 3:59 am

I should add that the 18mm is the lens that I may end up using for recording theatrical productions like the Sleeping Beauty I posted previously. We shall see. The 18mm is designed for Super 35 coverage and will have the same angle of view on the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor as the 25mm will have on a 135 Film Camera.

For my purposes, 18mm will likely be my widest prime lens for PL mount. Your purposes may be different if course, but I prefer rectilinear lenses with minimal distortion and if I went wider, it might be difficult to keep walls vertical.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 am

I agree Rick, I had the Zeiss ZF 18mm, and it was very good, but not a PL mount. Anything wider in a large lens like this is going to be either slow, t/3.5 or very large. Distortion will creep in too. Going wider, also puts you in the Ultra Wide territory.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue May 15, 2018 8:42 pm

Here’s another brief review of the current lineup of APO lenses including a TVC by Jeroen Damen, defilmboetirk.nl

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 16, 2018 3:50 pm

IMG_4614.JPG
IMG_4614.JPG (992.1 KiB) Viewed 1613 times
IMG_4609.JPG
IMG_4609.JPG (919.08 KiB) Viewed 1613 times
IMG_4594.JPG
IMG_4594.JPG (875.61 KiB) Viewed 1613 times
Shot a commercial with the APO set. I'll put up a link when it starts airing. Love these lenses.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:35 pm

I’m copying this post from the iPhone App & Color 4 thread as it belongs in this thread:

“SLR Magic now has an Anamorphot 65 1.33x Adapter as a 82mm screw-on which works with a compatible lens with up to a 65mm front element and a 30mm focal length or longer. It will pair well with my SLR Magic 32, 50, 85mm APO lenses. It will vignette with my 25mm APO. Until I try it, I won’t know if it would be useful in a sensor window.”



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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:36 pm

rick.lang wrote:I’m copying this post from the iPhone App & Color 4 thread as it belongs in this thread:

“SLR Magic now has an Anamorphot 65 1.33x Adapter as a 82mm screw-on which works with a compatible lens with up to a 65mm front element and a 30mm focal length or longer. It will pair well with my SLR Magic 32, 50, 85mm APO lenses. It will vignette with my 25mm APO. Until I try it, I won’t know if it would be useful in a sensor window.”



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And it's pretty awesome :D
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Can you tell us more at this time, Vic? Thinking of putting in a pre-order.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:39 pm

rick.lang wrote:Can you tell us more at this time, Vic? Thinking of putting in a pre-order.


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Not sure. Let me check. What's the retail on it? I can't even remember.
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:40 pm

$1,499 I believe.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1413511-REG


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Rick Lang
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 8:04 pm

Here is the item I was saying you might want to wait for IBC 2018 if you wanted a follow focus that would control a taking lens and a front adapter like the new SLR Magic 1.33x-65mm Anamorphot adapter. The PD Movie follow focus solves the issue of having to have an adapter and a taking lens both change their focus. Looks good:





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