4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 5:17 am

I suspect the big URSA may have become the Chrysler Valiant and BMCA P76 of filmdom.

When Chrysler and British Motor Corp shut up shop in Australia back when Noah was still but a pup, some folk could not offload their Valiant Regals, Charger R/Ts, P76s and Marinas fast enough in fear of evaporative product support. Other true and faithful believers hung onto them.

The longer BM leaves it, the ability of the electronics in the guts of the big URSA to integrate with any new sensor and its support circuitry may become less and less. To play a new turret nice with the old body may require an extra sub-assembly, an intervening adaptor/translator between a new turret and the body.

But would it not be pig-heaven if the new 4.6K turret contained the higher fruit of the UMPro with ND filter set and ARRI's new LPL mount. With a flange of 44mm the same as Canon EF, conversion of EF-Mount lenses is probably going to become an industry in its own right very soon.

Yeah I know - dream on old fella.
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John Brawley

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 5:52 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:..what really hurt this camera is the 4K sensor they have in it now


I think what hurt it is that it just didn't sell at all. It was laughed at and ridiculed for the larger screen size and most people complained about the weight.

Obviously those reading this thread feel differently, but the camera itself was a fizzer.

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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 6:21 pm

John,

I like the camera, and if it had the 4.6 I’d happily continue to use it, although I have no overbearing love for it

However I accept that it didn’t sell and there’s probably no business sense in continuing its development.

I can live with that. I’d quite happily take a refund and move on. But it’s way overdue the time to set it right with the customers.

And as an owner of...
The mini 4.6k with evf and all bm accessories
An ursa with all the bm accessories
A pocket
A bm hd link pro
A bm mini recorder
A bm mini monitor
A bm deck link mini
A bm intensity pro 4K
Blackmagic fusion
Bm video assist
Bm hyperdeck mini

I’d like to think blackmagic would care about me as a customer. And I’d really like to get this resolved

But the past three years have taught me it probably won’t
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 4:54 am

John Brawley wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:..what really hurt this camera is the 4K sensor they have in it now


I think what hurt it is that it just didn't sell at all. It was laughed at and ridiculed for the larger screen size and most people complained about the weight.

Obviously those reading this thread feel differently, but the camera itself was a fizzer.

JB

John I do remember that. The camera wasn’t intended to be a run ‘n’ gun camera. A lot of us are working by ourselves or with small crews. So the complaints came flooding in against this beast. ( That’s my nickname for my ursa ) Some of that complaint is what I guess spawned the mini. Now that the mini is here and everyone seem to have the camera they wanted, and now that includes the broadcast camera. It’s time to finish what they started with the big Ursa so to speak. I figured if it had a better sensor it would’ve been considered a serious competitor to the likes of Arri. If they’re able to get this turret working, it can still be. Like Gavin, i’m heavily invested in Bm products i’ve had all their cameras at some point. I have the mini pro and the mini 4.6k now. But I still love the big ursa more. People still hang around this camera on set, and are amazed by the look of it. I was the guy that dropped the camera on concrete a couple years ago ..my cP.2 was destroyed ..my battery caught fire and broke apart..but absolutely nothing happened to the camera..threw another battery and lens on that baby and finished the shoot. Even shot in a snowstorm with no cover on the camera ( actually we got caught in a snowstorm while trying to finish a shoot) Absolutely nothing happened to the camera. I used it as intended ..with 2 other guys working with me around this camera ..and it was so easy to see audio levels across the room..when setting up. Or pulling focus while we ran the camera on a track. I think it would be a mistake to abandon this turret upgrade. If that’s what Bm is planning. I still read Grant’s post from time to time. I think there’s still hope of us getting our turret..I’m that type of guy I guess. But reality is ..as more time pass, it would get harder to bring this turret to fruition. And it will indeed make this camera a fizzer if this turret does not happen
Last edited by Donnell Henry on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 5:06 am

As time passed the hope for turret has gone to dust, camera is one of beast yet but it is near to obselete when comparing to industry standards, doesnt even qualifies for netflix... its a shame they dumped such an amzazing camera to waste, it had huge potentials but what can we say they had to do what they had to by bring mini pro and now ursa broadcast, i hoped for a long time now that they will come out with the turret but now i know ant coming i was ready to accept the rolling shutter version of ursa major. forget about the turrets they never thought of making a software update what else do we expect
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 5:27 am

haseebdistorxian wrote:As time passed the hope for turret has gone to dust, camera is one of beast yet but it is near to obselete when comparing to industry standards, doesnt even qualifies for netflix... its a shame they dumped such an amzazing camera to waste, it had huge potentials but what can we say they had to do what they had to by bring mini pro and now ursa broadcast, i hoped for a long time now that they will come out with the turret but now i know ant coming i was ready to accept the rolling shutter version of ursa major. forget about the turrets they never thought of making a software update what else do we expect


My friend, not even arri qualified for Netflix until the new LF camera. Are Alexa’s that does not make Netflix’s list near obsolete? I don’t think so. Arri have used the same sensor for years. What most of us here are worried about, as you are as well is, as more time pass..the sensor may be harder to integrate with the older internals of the Ursa. Like I stated above I have both mini’s but I still shoot on the big Ursa sometimes. Until this camera stops working all entirely, or files from the camera can no longer be ingested into editing suites. It is not obsolete.
Last edited by Donnell Henry on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 5:56 am

JB, I may be wrong here..but didn’t you have a prototype Ursa with a turret? If that’s true you may be under NDA and can’t answer. I think I saw a post from you a while ago on another platform with a picture of it. Again I may be wrong.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 6:03 am

@donnell but I and many others like me bought ursa so that we dont fall behind the tech advancement or the industry's standard as they stated that it is the user upgradable camera, atleast a software upgrade is a must, when buying ursa major i specifically ditched ursa mini 4.6k mini the time it was on preorder just because of this user upgradable option, i feel that i have been fooled by bmd
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 6:05 am

Plus we cant get it repaired now if we get into any problem, as they have stopped its production so spare parts arent available anymore
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 9:08 am

I am sorry to say that many I know of have taken BM cameras off their list as their new cameras and quite few that were going for ursas and other BM cameras have now bought Alexas and Canons Instead.
The reason I have heard is lack of trust because of this Turret messup. Not fulfiling what companies and peoble thought they really bought because off the presentation on the camera, and broken promises on fulfiling what was written in the presentation of the URSA when they bought their cameras.
Not good BM


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 11:23 am

how about we start a post at change.org , I know people started one for macbooks with defective retina display coating and apple responded with a program to fix it for free... mayb this could help ursa users get that sensor and os upgrade we have been waiting for...
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 2:15 pm

haseebdistorxian wrote:@donnell but I and many others like me bought ursa so that we dont fall behind the tech advancement or the industry's standard as they stated that it is the user upgradable camera, atleast a software upgrade is a must, when buying ursa major i specifically ditched ursa mini 4.6k mini the time it was on preorder just because of this user upgradable option, i feel that i have been fooled by bmd


I agree with how you feel..yes it’s the reason we bought into the premise of an upgradable camera. It was their most expensive camera with the same sensor as the bmpc 4K just with higher frame rates. So the sensor upgrade is the reason myself and many others bought into it. What i’m saying is don’t count BM out just yet. Bm has made mistakes yes, but they’ve also tried to correct and in most cases corrected those mistakes. They listen. And I believe no else would want this sensor to work more than Bm.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 2:30 pm

Johannes Jonsson wrote:I am sorry to say that many I know of have taken BM cameras off their list as their new cameras and quite few that were going for ursas and other BM cameras have now bought Alexas and Canons Instead.
The reason I have heard is lack of trust because of this Turret messup. Not fulfiling what companies and peoble thought they really bought because off the presentation on the camera, and broken promises on fulfiling what was written in the presentation of the URSA when they bought their cameras.
Not good BM


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johannes, Bm has not made any statement saying the turret is not coming. The delay is the problem. They haven’t broken their “promise” until they release a statement that says ..the camera and turret is discontinued, and we get nothing. If they do make that statement, judging from BM’s past..they will no doubt offer us something to make up for that. Just like the Ump mini pro discount, while we wait for the turret. I do understand everyone’s frustration. And it would be a sad day indeed if the worst of our fears about this turret comes true. It would hurt my trust in this company as well. I’m the guy that believes the glass is always Half full. So i still think there’s something in the works ..either a whole new ursa ..with another discount ..or the turret. Keep hope alive ..Well until Nab at least :D
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 7:53 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
Johannes Jonsson wrote:I am sorry to say that many I know of have taken BM cameras off their list as their new cameras and quite few that were going for ursas and other BM cameras have now bought Alexas and Canons Instead.
The reason I have heard is lack of trust because of this Turret messup. Not fulfiling what companies and peoble thought they really bought because off the presentation on the camera, and broken promises on fulfiling what was written in the presentation of the URSA when they bought their cameras.
Not good BM


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johannes, Bm has not made any statement saying the turret is not coming. The delay is the problem. They haven’t broken their “promise” until they release a statement that says ..the camera and turret is discontinued, and we get nothing. If they do make that statement, judging from BM’s past..they will no doubt offer us something to make up for that. Just like the Ump mini pro discount, while we wait for the turret. I do understand everyone’s frustration. And it would be a sad day indeed if the worst of our fears about this turret comes true. It would hurt my trust in this company as well. I’m the guy that believes the glass is always Half full. So i still think there’s something in the works ..either a whole new ursa ..with another discount ..or the turret. Keep hope alive ..Well until Nab at least :D


DonnellI I did never say that BM made a statement saying the turret is not coming.
I am still using and buying BM products and I think Ill keep on doing so.
I have both the big URSA and URSA MINI PRO. I will keep on hoping and I still believe that we will get a new Turret for the big URSA.
But never the less what I say is happening.
Johannes
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 am

The ump has been a fantastic seller for BM and they've now homogenised all of their sensors around that design be it the 4k, 4.6k or the studio/now broadcast 4k. As time has passed, I doubt they are working on a turret any more, it doesn't fit in with anything else they're doing. I think the ump upgrade and the vague commitment to continuing the research was the end. BM really want this to go away now and probably feel like they've made enough of a gesture with the upgrade program.
Unfortunately for them, this thread still persists on their first page of the cinematography forum. How annoying for them. I could potentially see a token os being developed, but if they've stopped making the camera, they're not going to re tool a production line to release new hardware.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 10:50 am

You can still pre-order one at www.dvestore.com
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 12:21 pm

RaviRajah wrote:You can still pre-order one at http://www.dvestore.com

It says, "discontinued". - https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-design-ursa-ef/
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Why no bm representative is responding anymore about the progress? i guess its because it ant coming and by not discussing about it means they are trying hard to avoid it
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
RaviRajah wrote:You can still pre-order one at http://www.dvestore.com

It says, "discontinued". - https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-design-ursa-ef/


The Turret: https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-des ... t-4-6k-ef/
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Johannes Jonsson wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
RaviRajah wrote:You can still pre-order one at http://www.dvestore.com

It says, "discontinued". - https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-design-ursa-ef/


The Turret: https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-des ... t-4-6k-ef/

I'll bet nobody has pre-ordered, otherwise that item would have been taken down.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 5:17 pm

Last edited by Johannes Jonsson on Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 5:21 pm

rick.lang wrote:The turret for URSA includes the mount and the sensor. Not too many third-parties will know how to integrate their own sensors into the URSA system and integrate it with the BMD processors. Remember the turret is more than a mount.


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I have two URSA's. I can donate 1 to the third party companies for R&D. Say the word!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 5:22 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:
rick.lang wrote:The turret for URSA includes the mount and the sensor. Not too many third-parties will know how to integrate their own sensors into the URSA system and integrate it with the BMD processors. Remember the turret is more than a mount.


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I have two URSA's. I can donate 1 to the third party companies for R&D. Say the word!



I would too
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 5:32 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
Asok Kumar wrote:I don't understand why bmd is discontinuing the big Ursa,if the body weight is the problem,the arri Alexa is equal or more weight than Ursa,the newly launched Sony Venice with all the ESSENTIAL accessories weight more than Ursa,and this much extensive discussion on the Ursa turret reveal how much the handsome Ursa is in the people's heart!,ower Grant pretty is not hearing it,or purposefully he is shutting his eyes and ears closed?
Here's the real reason: it's for the wrong audience. It's designed for an Alexa user who doesn't care because he/she gets to use an Alexa, but priced for people who don't know what an Alexa is. The Mini fits BMD's market perfectly... because it suits their needs and budget, since most are one person crews.

Both are good cameras, but the big Ursa isn't a great seller to people who mostly operate as one-person-bands because it was designed around a crew rather than singleton.

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Pooling users like that may be a bit inaccurate. I often do a two man shoot, on two cameras. So, in a way....a single shooter. An interview with 2 cams will have an operator on each cam. I can totally use the big URSA as a single shooter for that. I also cover events with a multicam set-up. Would be great to have the big URSA match up the two UMPRos. I mix cameras and without a shogun between the other brand cams and the ATEM, matching the different looks is a female dog. Again, that scenario its a solo operator.. many case uses where users here can gain from big URSA.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 7:20 pm

I agree with the above post
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Johannes Jonsson wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:
Johannes Jonsson wrote:I am sorry to say that many I know of have taken BM cameras off their list as their new cameras and quite few that were going for ursas and other BM cameras have now bought Alexas and Canons Instead.
The reason I have heard is lack of trust because of this Turret messup. Not fulfiling what companies and peoble thought they really bought because off the presentation on the camera, and broken promises on fulfiling what was written in the presentation of the URSA when they bought their cameras.
Not good BM


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johannes, Bm has not made any statement saying the turret is not coming. The delay is the problem. They haven’t broken their “promise” until they release a statement that says ..the camera and turret is discontinued, and we get nothing. If they do make that statement, judging from BM’s past..they will no doubt offer us something to make up for that. Just like the Ump mini pro discount, while we wait for the turret. I do understand everyone’s frustration. And it would be a sad day indeed if the worst of our fears about this turret comes true. It would hurt my trust in this company as well. I’m the guy that believes the glass is always Half full. So i still think there’s something in the works ..either a whole new ursa ..with another discount ..or the turret. Keep hope alive ..Well until Nab at least :D


DonnellI I did never say that BM made a statement saying the turret is not coming.
I am still using and buying BM products and I think Ill keep on doing so.
I have both the big URSA and URSA MINI PRO. I will keep on hoping and I still believe that we will get a new Turret for the big URSA.
But never the less what I say is happening.


Hi Johannes I apologize, you absolutely did not say that. I was just responding to what you said people were doing as a result of the turret mess up. I think we all have ideas on what we think BM may or may not be doing behind the scenes with the turret.. which in turn is causing a panic in some people to sell off their cameras or move on to another brand. Speaking for myself, i’ll Make a decision on my brand loyalty after BM makes an official statement on the turret.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 10:14 pm

RED and Foxconn to create range of affordable 8K prosumer cinema cameras. I know where I am going if Black Magic doesn't do anything for URSA owners.

https://www.eoshd.com/2018/02/foxconn-partners-red-build-affordable-consumer-cinema-cameras/
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 11:04 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:Hi Johannes I apologize, you absolutely did not say that. I was just responding to what you said people were doing as a result of the turret mess up. I think we all have ideas on what we think BM may or may not be doing behind the scenes with the turret.. which in turn is causing a panic in some people to sell off their cameras or move on to another brand. Speaking for myself, i’ll Make a decision on my brand loyalty after BM makes an official statement on the turret.

No problem Donnell :)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 1:24 am

Brian, “RED affordable 8K prosumer cinema camera.” Interesting times when you can find all those words in one sentence.


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 1:30 am

Brian Gulliver wrote:RED and Foxconn to create range of affordable 8K prosumer cinema cameras. I know where I am going if Black Magic doesn't do anything for URSA owners.

https://www.eoshd.com/2018/02/foxconn-partners-red-build-affordable-consumer-cinema-cameras/


Brian that’s a very interesting article..Foxconn says the camera will be prosumer level with the quality of film for 1/3 the price. I think BM has that in the bag already :) Well minus the 8k of course. BM’s sensors will only get better. 6k is probably the next step for BM with higher dynamic range and better low light capabilities. With the 4.6k sensor, Bm is starting to get it right. And if they can give us an amazing turret to bring the Ursa up to par or maybe surpass the minis ..I don’t think Red or Foxconn can compete with them in the under 10,000 price range.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 2:50 am

Definitely moral dilemma... stick with a company that has been flat out disrespectful to their "loyal customers" or move to the as of yet realized low cost RED camera from manufacturer who's working conditions are so terrible they actually put up nets on the outside of the factory to prevent workers from committing suicide while jumping out the windows. Even though I have lost all faith in BM I would stick with them over RED.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 5:55 am

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
RaviRajah wrote:You can still pre-order one at http://www.dvestore.com

It says, "discontinued". - https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-design-ursa-ef/


NOPE - u can still order it here:

https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-des ... t-4-6k-pl/
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
haseebdistorxian wrote:As time passed the hope for turret has gone to dust, camera is one of beast yet but it is near to obselete when comparing to industry standards, doesnt even qualifies for netflix... its a shame they dumped such an amzazing camera to waste, it had huge potentials but what can we say they had to do what they had to by bring mini pro and now ursa broadcast, i hoped for a long time now that they will come out with the turret but now i know ant coming i was ready to accept the rolling shutter version of ursa major. forget about the turrets they never thought of making a software update what else do we expect


My friend, not even arri qualified for Netflix until the new LF camera. Are Alexa’s that does not make Netflix’s list near obsolete? I don’t think so. Arri have used the same sensor for years. What most of us here are worried about, as you are as well is, as more time pass..the sensor may be harder to integrate with the older internals of the Ursa. Like I stated above I have both mini’s but I still shoot on the big Ursa sometimes. Until this camera stops working all entirely, or files from the camera can no longer be ingested into editing suites. It is not obsolete.


Folks, the 4K and Netflix has been widely misrepresented. Netflix will buy any resolution for circulation. Netflix will require 4K if they are investing/producing the film as in 'Netflix Original'. There's a big difference. I still use the BMD URSA 4K Major in almost all indie films we produce. It's a workhorse and has not failed us.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 5:43 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:
haseebdistorxian wrote:As time passed the hope for turret has gone to dust, camera is one of beast yet but it is near to obselete when comparing to industry standards, doesnt even qualifies for netflix... its a shame they dumped such an amzazing camera to waste, it had huge potentials but what can we say they had to do what they had to by bring mini pro and now ursa broadcast, i hoped for a long time now that they will come out with the turret but now i know ant coming i was ready to accept the rolling shutter version of ursa major. forget about the turrets they never thought of making a software update what else do we expect


My friend, not even arri qualified for Netflix until the new LF camera. Are Alexa’s that does not make Netflix’s list near obsolete? I don’t think so. Arri have used the same sensor for years. What most of us here are worried about, as you are as well is, as more time pass..the sensor may be harder to integrate with the older internals of the Ursa. Like I stated above I have both mini’s but I still shoot on the big Ursa sometimes. Until this camera stops working all entirely, or files from the camera can no longer be ingested into editing suites. It is not obsolete.


Folks, the 4K and Netflix has been widely misrepresented. Netflix will buy any resolution for circulation. Netflix will require 4K if they are investing/producing the film as in 'Netflix Original'. There's a big difference. I still use the BMD URSA 4K Major in almost all indie films we produce. It's a workhorse and has not failed us.


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 5:48 pm

I copied and pasted Grant’s words here from his post 7 months ago
..This post seems hopeful that the turret is being worked on. :D

Hi,

I am posting this to let you know that the loyalty upgrade offer on URSA Mini Pro 4.6K for customers who purchased the original URSA 4K camera has been extended until further notice. The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these, we are extending the special offer. The URSA loyalty program gives URSA customers an affordable way of getting the latest Blackmagic Design camera technology today, while keeping your original URSA camera.

We extend our apologies to those of you who have been waiting for the URSA Turret upgrade and appreciate your patience. When developing products it is essential that we meet both the expectations of you as a customer and ourselves. If we released a product we weren't entirely happy with it would be against our principles and unfair on you, our customers.

Should you need a 4.6k camera option now, the loyalty upgrade offer will help you transition to the URSA Mini Pro 4.6k with the addition of ND filters, SD card recording and an interchangeable lens mount. All you need to do is contact the reseller from whom you purchased your original URSA 4K camera and send them a photograph of your camera’s serial number. Your reseller will provide Blackmagic Design with a copy of the original invoice and process the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K order for you at this special price of only $3495. Best of all, you get to keep your original URSA 4K camera too!

We thank you for your patience and hope you’ll take advantage of this offer.
Please contact your Blackmagic Design reseller or local office with any questions!

Regards,

Grant
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 6:18 pm

7 months gone, words were meaningless
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 2:33 am

RaviRajah wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
RaviRajah wrote:You can still pre-order one at http://www.dvestore.com

It says, "discontinued". - https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-design-ursa-ef/


NOPE - u can still order it here:

https://www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-des ... t-4-6k-pl/


So do you have to pay up front to pre-order a part for a camera the manufacturer has discontinued? If so, who in their right mind would do that?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 7:57 am

The camera may be discontinued but maybe, just maybe, somebody who is imbibed with a little faith has elected to allow the pre-order option for the 4.K turret alone to remain propagate on the website.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 5:15 pm

robert Hart wrote:The camera may be discontinued but maybe, just maybe, somebody who is imbibed with a little faith has elected to allow the pre-order option for the 4.K turret alone to remain propagate on the website.

Faith? Or a fool and their money are soon parted.

Even if BM managed to make and ship the turret, how are they gonna support it? What do they do if the fix requires Ursa parts they don't have and don't make anymore? And would they rebuild their production capacity to support a turret for a camera they no longer sell? Where the number of potential customers is dwindling by the second?

Cam'on, get real guys.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm

"Faith? Or a fool and their money are soon parted. "

I was just having a little fun there. Please don't take me too seriously. I don't. - It's an Australian thing.

"And would they rebuild their production capacity to support a turret for a camera they no longer sell? Where the number of potential customers is dwindling by the second?"

Who knows what items BM may have sitting in a shed? --- 500 or so turret V3 castings all machined up waiting and ready for their sensors and PCBs? --- 500 or so turret V3 castings waiting for a scrappy to come, take them away and melt them down --- or in the office, a credit note from the scrap metal merchant for the same said V3 turret castings already received --- or a receipt for settlement of a take or pay demand from a supplier for a cancelled order of turret V3 castings --- or none of same, except that they might be extant in my imagination alone.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 6:53 pm

For thine populace of little faith. ( in jest of course. ) or there instead exists a slack webmaster who should have taken something down off the vendor's server.
Attachments
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 7:01 pm

The turret itself, if it was developed could possibly go onto another future iteration of a camera. It doesn’t have to be monogamous to the Ursa.

That’s a theoretical scenario of course, but the turret scenario and the camera aren’t mutually exclusive.

At this point I think the ROI on developing a turret based on the very low numbers of Ursa’s sold is likely the issue. Ursa just wasn’t that successful.

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 7:17 pm

robert Hart wrote:Who knows what items BM may have sitting in a shed? --- 500 or so turret V3 castings all machined up waiting and ready for their sensors and PCBs? --- 500 or so turret V3 castings waiting for a scrappy to come, take them away and melt them down --- or in the office, a credit note from the scrap metal merchant for the same said V3 turret castings already received --- or a receipt for settlement of a take or pay demand from a supplier for a cancelled order of turret V3 castings --- or none of same, except that they might be extant in my imagination alone.

In a previous reincarnation I owned an electronics contract manufacturing company, we also did integration. You wouldn't make any money if you were that sloppy with inventory. We ordered what we needed to build what we projected to build. Nothing more, nothing less. If there was any over buying, it was a few percentage at most to cover accidental damage, but we did everything we could to keep to as close to zero overage as possible. You don't make money making things by buying stuff you never use or never sell.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 7:44 pm

Gene.

Sloppy practice or did the URSA 4.6K turret come tantalisingly close to shipping? Given the big URSA has ended and it seems product support is according to some other posts, just about done for, the inventory was probably run as tightly as you would recommend.


John.

I am aware you might be under a non-disclosure obligation so if you do not reply to the questions this is understood. I think I read somewhere that you did some tests with the big URSA 4.6K version. Did your camera yield usable images? Was it otherwise as controllable as the URSA 4K? I guess BM would not be exactly pleased to tell us just how many big URSA cameras were sold. Any clue as to how many?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 17, 2018 12:19 am

I asked John a similar question earlier, as I thought I saw him with a picture of a prototype ursa 4.6k on Twitter. If it’s true he may indeed be under an NDA and can’t answer. John If you happen to be correct on your post above, and I hope not. But if you’re correct, and low sales of the Ursa is causing them not to want to develop the turret, I do understand the business of it all, but they must also consider the damage that it may cause to their reputation as well, possibly impacting sales of future cameras in the pipeline. To be honest even if they scrapped the turret and built a whole new Ursa Major with a new sensor and made the camera upgradable. Bm Is a company that listens and tries to make things right. So I believe they’ll have some type of upgrade program in the works for Ursa owners that invested in the premise of an upgradable camera.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 17, 2018 6:53 pm

If BM has a stock of sensors which didn't make the grade for frame rate and/or global shutter performance benchmarks and turret assemblies, I wonder if they might be persuaded to assemble and sell them as "experimental" with no warranty of satisfactory performance either express or implied, hopefully compatable enough with the original URSA guts to "plug and play" at say 25P and ISO 400 which is all I need. I simply want to get my greasy hands on one.

If RED could do a dual standard with the EPIC and Scarlet cameras of the DSMC1 family, why not BM, except the necessary inventory of hardware might have by now been scrapped. ( Scarlets apparently had sensors which did not meet the higher performance benchmarks of the EPIC but were still adequate in the Scarlet cameras. )

Then again I might be full of mischief here.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 17, 2018 7:06 pm

robert Hart wrote: I wonder if they might be persuaded to assemble and sell them as "experimental" with no warranty of satisfactory performance either express or implied, hopefully compatable enough with the original URSA guts to "plug and play" at say 25P and ISO 400 which is all I need. I simply want to get my greasy hands on one.


I don’t really think you do.

I’ve shot with many such sensors on many cameras during early testing of cameras and they’re unusable in that state. Many many faults. Like bad. Really bad. You can’t get anything useable out of them. Dead pixels, terrible noise, terrible random glitches. Big lines through your picture. No one wants that.

That’s the thing. Getting to that stage is relatively easy. Getting all those faults out is where it gets really really hard from an R&D point of view, taking a large investment of time and effort and resources.

Let’s imagine that they would sell maybe 2000 turrets in a successful scenario. And I’d say that’s an optimistic number.

That’s a piddling amount of return for the energy and cost already invested, let alone what it costs to get it made customer ready.

Any as far as I’ve seen, BMD make most of the cameras in house “just in time”. They don’t build 500 units and park them on a shelf.

I think BMD have done the right thing by their customers by offering a low costs upgrade to what is arguable a much better camera in most of the ways that count.

If you want ultra high frame rates, and the larger form factor screens model, then you’re the ones that haven’t had your expectations, but I suspect those Ursa customers are small subset of the already small numbers of people that own Ursas. I bet the majority of that small subset are the ones here keeping this discussion going.

JB
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 1:58 am

John is this just your opinion, or you know something about the turret that you can't tell us.. Spill the beans we can take it ;) Yes you make a lot of sense here, but i'm still hopeful, as foolish as it may sound
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 3:35 am

It’s my opinion 100%

I don’t know anything and he fact that I’m actually saying I don’t know anything really means that. If I knew something I would be silent.

No one wanted Ursa more than I and no one had more hope for its success.

It didn’t work out and Ive moved on.

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 4:13 am

Whew!!! :D For once i’m happy you don’t have any info ..Well I guess it’s hope for the best, but expect the worst type of scenario here.
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