Filming sports with BMPCC4K

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Justin Jackson

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Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 am

Hey all,

So took my BMPCC4K out for a spin at a soccer game yesterday. I have it set up using the DEC LensRegain, and my Canon 28mm lens. I noticed something, which I suspect I should have known... there was no IRIS (fstop?) option for my lens. So, somehow, I had it wide open I guess because when I first turned on the unit, the screen was basically gray lines, though I could see my hand wave in front of it.. it was like there was a gray mesh in front of the lens. I first thought something was wrong with the camera. Later I finally was able to auto white balance and that seemed to have work, in that it set the FPS to like 2000, ISO to 100, and that was it. It was still a bit blown out but it worked well enough.

So, I guess.. the LensRegain controls the IRIS. I think I knew this before and just forgot and havent had much of a chance to really experiment with it. I didnt have the module attached to the LensRegain either, so had no way of adjusting the focus or iris. I vaguely recall now that with the LensRegain IRIS info wont ever make it in to the camera? Even without, I guess most lenses dont have iris control via the camera? Either way, given I was using a photo lens.. with no manual Iris wheel, is there a proper way to adjust the Fstop on the lens so that, in day time shots, I can shoot without a good portion of the image being bokeh/blurry. Ideally depending on the lens, I basically dont even want any bokeh. At least not for shooting sports video from the stands.

Also.. I used my 49WH battery (on a rails/vmount setup) with DTAP to DC in cord that I got off of Amazon for $35, and it worked great. The battery has 4 dots, and after shooting for a bit over an hour, it was still at 4 dots. Incidentally, I recorded 2 sets of 40minute halves, at 60P/HD, no problem. I was curious how long it could record continuously, and this didnt let me down. I went HD to get the added crop as my 28mm on 4K was getting the entire field and I wanted it a bit closer in without moving my position. So switching to HD did the trick.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 9:17 am

As the camera eats around 22W I don't see how a 49Wh battery still can show itself as full after an hour of usage. But if it was cold enough outside maybe the camera needs much less energy for the cooling system.
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dsorbera

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 1:09 pm

I don't own the LensRegain, but a quick look at it leads me to believe it should be working, so maybe it just needs a firmware update.

FWIW I use a metabones EF - MFT speed booster and it DOES let me control the aperture of EF lenses (with very granular control I might add). So it's totally possible to control the aperture of EF lenses, you just need an adapter that works.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 3:40 pm

A Canon EOS (Electro-Optical System) lens is controlled by wire. The Lensregain relies on the battery in the transmitter module to power the lens and control the iris and focus mechanism remotely via the wifi controller that displays the corrected T stop on it's display. The Lensregain EF to MFT adaptor has no contacts on it to communicate with the BMPCC 4K. You must use the complete system to control it.
If you are just going to use the .75 focal reducer and adapter without the rest of the system then you must use a completely manual lens. I have found that with a OM full frame mount to EF adapter that I can use cheap, obsolete Olympus OM manual focus lenses (OLYMPUS ZUIKO MC 28mm f2 & 21mm f/3.5) on the Lensregain. I have to use the BMPCC 4K's window mode for a full frame lens or I get large black borders.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 4:02 pm

I have a Lensregain, and like Donald said, the Lensregain uses it's own power to control the aperture of the lens. The advantage of this is that it doesn't run the camera battery down. The disadvantage is that if you don't have the Lensregain control module, you can't control electronically controlled lenses.

Personally, I use almost all fully manual lenses, so more often than not I'm running the Lensregain only as a focal reducer - and it does a pretty good job, in my opinion.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 5:52 pm

If you climb down from the stands and get closer to the action you could have a fine run and gun setup with that. With the full Aputure DEC Lensregain system I am able to use the it's WiFi controller handle on my Smallrig full 2203 cage with the addition of a NICEYRIG NATO Clamp with Nato Rail Quick Release Plate, a SmallRig Handgrip Rosette Adapter for Sony FS7 and a rubber grommet. I can easily set A and B focus stops and have a variable speed control for rack focus while filming, plus, I can control the iris in real time while I move from dark to light environments. The addition of a CAMVATE Camera Handle Stabilizer (Left Hand) DSLR Cage Wooden Handle on the left side and a Canon IS lens makes for a very stable rig while moving. With the NATO clamps, the handles break down in seconds.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 8:07 pm

Dudes.. thank you all. Good stuff. I didnt realize the Camvate handles were only 30 bucks. Those are nice. Do you by chance use left AND right? Wondering if there is any benefit to both sides. Only issue with left side is I have the USBC cord to the T5, HDMI to monitor, and DC in plug.. the Small Rig cage I got has the HDMI/USBC clamp, but its not that great. Just wondering if those cables sticking out will get in the way of the handle mount?

I like the idea of some OM manual lenses.. in fact, I really want the Sigma 18-35, but its a bit out of range right now. I have my Rokinon 85mm with manual iris, so will try that this evening at a game if it doesnt rain.

I use the higher elevation to provide a good down angled shot of the field so you can see different players in the play. Sideline works for some things, but for reviews and highlight reviews, its best to get 15 to 20 feet above the field to get enough of the players in the play due to the elevated angle.

I will play with the module today see if I can mount it and make it work. I am also trying to work on some DIY 18650 battery packs. 4 of them together put out 14.4v, and provide about 45Wh supposedly, so should provide 2 to 3 hours of use.

Robert, I thought the same thing. Could be my cheaper battery doesnt show status as well. Its been sitting for 2 days and now its on 3 dots. I really want to move to using 18650 module packs to power the camera, monitor and LensRegain as they are smaller/lighter and cheaper too! 4 batteries for $7 per battery, which are Panasonic NCRs. Assuming I can get it to work, should make it easy to run for hours with not too much weight in batteries. Well see. I am waiting on the RIG mountable module unit that... forget the member who is building one... is available, so in the meantime just a project to see if I can get it to work.
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dondidnod

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 am

I find that if you hold a camera stationary then having two handles is more stable when your arms get tired. I also use a z shaped offset raiser clamp to extend the rig to a foam shoulder pad using 15mm rods for a 3 point support.
I don't know why wooden handles are usually so expensive, sometimes over $100 each! Maybe they discovered a good source of fiber in wood and there is competition for it in Asia.
The affordable CAMVATE Camera Handle clears all the cables coming out of the camera if you unscrew the wood handle and flip it around and screw it back in so the lever sticks out forward from the cage.
Good luck on your battery project. Maybe we can learn something from it. I've found I can get a Kastar Battery (2-Pack) and Charger for Sony NP-F970 on Amazon for $37.99 and mount one of them next to my Samsung T5 SSD using the included bracket from a 12V kit with BMPCC4K power connector from the Ringteam Tech Store on Aliexpress. A Smallrig NATO Handle Adjustable Top Grip fits real close to it in the middle of the cage. This leaves the top right side of the cage free for mounting a mic or light.
There are a lot of orphaned lens mounts that are adaptable to the Canon EF standard. These lenses sold for really big bucks back in their heyday, but the market for them has dropped out. I was talking to an old timer vendor at a camera swap meet about these gems and he said he can't get the money he used to just a few years ago because everybody wants auto focus now. Just make sure that they have the later coatings (MC designation) to reduce flare, unless you like that vintage effect. Check out this site for more information: http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/compatible.html The compatible mounts mentioned include CANON FD, CONTAX/YASHICA, LEICA R, NIKON F (NIKKOR), OLYMPUS OM (also adapts well to MFT), PENTAX/M42 screw mt, PENTAX K and ROLLEI QBM. Unfortunately we are getting some competition from Sony A7xx users that are tired of paying through the nose for a very limited range of E mount lenses and since their auto focusing is in the camera they can make good use of these lenses. Get them while you can!
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rick.lang

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 2:58 pm

Wood handles are possibly individually crafted by hand from a block? A lot of labour versus molded or shaped materials will make the cost high but user satisfaction using them will be high too.


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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 3:06 am

Robert, so my 98wh battery was half gone after 1.2 hours of use powering the camera and my Atomos Ninja monitor. I wasnt recording on monitor, just using it to view. That seems more legit than the other one, which I was wrong..it is a Juicebox 95wh battery as well. So it could very well be that it powered the camera with just barely enough to show 4 dots still.. as a little while later it was down to 3 dots.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 9:53 am

Australian Image wrote:I really wish I'd had a BMPCC4k when I was doing sports, as I could have extracted great shots from the video and had video clips available as well.


I am not sure if that would really work out like you might think. For sure you would have relied on a very short shutter and a good auto focus of your stills camera? Shooting video with 1/1000 or shorter shutter wouldn't be nice to watch, even at 60p. And if you would use a longer shutter motion blur would be a problem when extracting shots. And the basic non-tracking auto focus wouldn't help either.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 11:59 am

I'm interested in this too.

Robert. Does the camera power consumption vary based on which compression and resolution mode you use?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 12:11 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:I'm interested in this too.

Robert. Does the camera power consumption vary based on which compression and resolution mode you use?


I don't think so. At least I haven't found anything pointing into that direction during operation.
But it is likely that the outside temperature influences the energy consumption of the peltier.

Recently I was filming on a mountain at 2,200 m and I had the impression that the battery lasted longer than usual.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 1:42 pm

Thanks. It's hard to believe that battery life isn't affected by amount of processing.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 8:51 pm

In the film days before rapid motor drives, it took skill and knowing one’s subject to get good action shots.
However, I agree with Robert, you can use a “Vidoe” camera to get good useable stills, using fast shutter speeds, or video at normal motion shutter angels, but not both.

You want a cross between a video camera and stills camera with rapid shooting burst, the Nikon V1 could shoot a 4K 60fps burst for about 1.5 seconds even in Raw DNG. You get useable still grabs, and stick them together in a video editor, and you have some interesting slow motion or ?
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 11:47 pm

Yes they can and Saving Private Ryan is an example of using fast shutter speeds to creat a desired motion effect. Also a 180-degree shutter is not locked in stone, I often use 120-degree, or 270-degree shutter settings. Using a faster shutter speed is needed for fast action scenes, like races, fast games, etc.
That said, 180-degreeoe a shutter speed twice the FPS) is universally considered “normal” motion setting for shooting non fast action, normal motion, going back to cinema film cameras, which set this standard.
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 am

Ray, just thought about what you wrote.

Occasionally I do shoot on the outside with 50fps and quite often I can get away with a 90° or even 45° shutter - which means 1/200 or 1/400 - so this could be fine for several types of sports.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostMon Jan 07, 2019 5:11 pm

I think the issue was that 24fps needed something, but if you don't track right you get the stuttering effect.

You could experiment with resolve tools to get better frames out of p60 180 degrees or less. They are supposed to have tools to generate frames, they are likely to have something to get rid of motion blur.

I have advocated a mode which shoot long exposure one frame and short the next frame, repeatedly. Then you can extract stills from the second frame, maybe even back to back for more reliable HDR mode, but nobodies had the guts to implement it. It might be a simple firmware update I'm interested if you can mix too exposure length frames in sports footage which looks acceptable to watch without resolve tools. Maybe a bit minor shimmer like effect, like you used to get in film as the film bounced around?
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:28 am

Few days behind this discussion. I recall a few years back, Esquire magazine had an article on the RED 5K camera, and they did a video shoot with Megan Fox (Back when she was apparently on the way to being a mega star). They took individual frames from the 5K RAW video and used it for the cover of the mag, which was the first time they had done that (or anyone?). I dont know what settings were used, I suspect it was set up to take great stills photos using video, e.g. no motion blur, very high frame rate, excellent lighting, etc.

I think for sports video.. I am still playing with it, but if I record 4K 30 (decided 60 has no purpose in the video I shoot since its just for review and potentially highlight reels), I think it would be fine if I had the shutter speed at 200 or 400 or so. It should avoid almost any motion blur, but yet still be watchable as a video. However in my case, I am mostly worried about the distance at which blur sets in. When I am 30 yards off the sideline up in the stands, I dont want blur to occur near one sideline and then look clear around the middle of the field then start to get blur again near the other side. Ideally I want the entire field looking clear, and if the stands on the other side are a bit blurry thats fine.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 11:58 am

The suitability if a 1/400th shutter speed depends upon your purpose. That’s a 27 degree shutter angle at 30 fps. If you’re using it to review the flow of action in a normal playback, it’s going to be very weird, if you want to use the footage to review key elements of play as a coach, it might be a good idea. If you’re using the video to give you very good stills for other purposes, then it’s appropriate.


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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 10:50 pm

So last night, I recorded again. First I got hit with the snag that my USBC disappeared!! Missed a minute of the game and I dont usually check it because my setup is the camera is on a rails, with the battery and distribution block and rails to vmount sitting right behind the camera, so I cant see the monitor very well. I use my Atomos Inferno as a monitor only, not for recording. So I can see.

So last night.. I watched as I recorded in the monitor, and I pressed one of those 3 buttons to "enable LUT" so it added a bit more color. I am recording 422 (not HQ, not LT). My 500GB SSD gives me about 140 minutes or so at 4K resolution, 30fps. Enough for a game.

Anyway, the game looked fine, color wise to me through my Inferno. HOWEVER, when I played it back (or rather transcoded it to h265, then uploaded to youtube), during the playback, I see that the brightness goes up and down periodically. I think I set it to auto shutter? Not sure now. I was using my Nifty Fifty, attached to the DEC LensRegain, unpowered.. so just using it as a booster.

If you are interested, here is the link to the game.


Would love any thoughts/feedback. Mind you, this is shot "inside" as it was starting to rain at the start of the game.. though it ended up not raining. But I was inside the school press box. They have removable windows so I took the window pane off, so I wasnt shooting through glass. However, in the 2nd part of the game, where it got a little darker (game was at 5pm, went to about 6:30 so it was dark by the time it was over), the inside light was on... so not sure if that affected the camera auto shutter in any way.

Still trying to figure out how best to set this camera up for these events. With my Sony AX53, it being a prosumer.. everything is auto accept one thing I set to manual. Usually I set focus to manual so in darker settings it doesnt try to auto focus when I move the camera.. which in darker settings ends up causing it to never really focus right.. and especially when shooting on a 21 foot tripod without focus control remotely... it basically ruins the video.

Also shooting on a Manfrotto 0xb tripod and head.. so not the ideal video setup. I just ordered/received a Benro tripod (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _75mm.html) but havent yet used it. Hoping that with my Nitro head will be a better video setup than the cheaper tripod I currently use.

Sorry for the long reply.. please feel free to watch the video (its long.. 1.2 hours) and if anything sticks out that I should do to make it better, please let me know.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 12:24 am

So that is what it looks like to me..which is odd, because what I see on my monitor looks like it applies the LUT to the HDMI output. Maybe it does NOT apply it to the recorded video?

I may be misunderstanding the purpose of ProRes/DNxHR. I tend to think they are basically "graded" and you would use RAW for ungraded and post work to add grade/color. I mean I realize you CAN modify color/etc all you want regardless of the format. But at least for this sort of stuff, there isnt much purpose in spending time post production to add color if I can just bake it in.

So I probably mistakenly assumed that that one F button (there are 3 programmable ones I think) when it adds color to the image I see in my monitor, if I recall it adds a LUT to it. I assumed that means it bakes it in to the recording as well.

Incidentally, little off topic, but if I have the battery in the camera and am using the DC input from a Vmount battery.. if my external battery dies, does it seamlessly kick over to the battery in the camera? Or will it just die? I assume the DC in does NOT charge the battery in the camera, but wasnt sure if it is able to instantly kick over to it to avoid losing any footage. Last night I forgot to put battery back in camera and my external died and everything just stopped. I had to "fix" my SSD when I plugged it in to my Windows workstation unfortunately, I assume because it just shut off. Its too bad there is no way for the camera to be told by external batteries how much power is left. If I build/use an external 18650 battery pack.. I would hope if it starts off at 14.8V but starts to lower down in voltage, the camera could be smart enough to at least put some sort of indication that battery seems to be getting low.. check it, etc.
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rick.lang

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 2:58 am

Justin, I’m not getting any sound. Is it just me or this doesn’t include audio? You should be grading this to put some life into it before you put it online. Would only take a few minutes since the lighting is fairly consistent. I just watched a couple of minutes. I think it might be more involving with a longer lens.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 10:55 pm

I agree with Rick, you need closeup shots of the action as well as long shots. Justin, you might want to consider gett8ng a good used Oly 50-200 SWD FT zoom with a MFT adapter to use, it is a f/2.8-3.5 lens with excellent optics and IQ, this will give you the wide shits yiu want, as well as the ability to zoom in on the action.

That said, I feel, this type of event is really better shot in a camera like the Ursa Broadcast, with a long reach B4 ENG or Box Zoom lens, which can go quickly between wide and zoom in for close up shots. If you are compressing this down to h.264, you seem to wasting the extra resolution of the Pocket 4K. Have you tried shooting in Extended Video vs film log, might add some punch to the colors.
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rick.lang

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 1:47 am

Further to Denny’s recommendation, I’ve often shot events with the Fujinon HA20x7.8B M10 B4 Cine Zoom on the URSA Mini 4.6K. Makes for a much more engaging coverage. But even going for a single longer lens may be all you need to do. When you have action on the near sidelines, try a lens that will have a few athletes fill the frame. Given the distance you are at, the far sidelines will still give you a closer view of the action. Takes some practice though as the longer the lens, the more challenging the focus and the more difficult to follow the action. But the emotional impact makes it worthwhile.

Now if your client insists on a lens that covers most of the field, ignore my suggestion.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 7:36 pm

Good recommendations Ray, I agree, center field is not the best position for general coverage. Bit, if the O
P is shooting this for one of the team’s coaches, to revypkays with the team, and he only has one camera, he is stuck with the central position to get the best overall shot of the plays, or favor the team side he is shooting for.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 9:48 pm

Hey all,

LOT of good responses. Thank you so much! Really appreciate you all giving me some good feedback!

I should have started off with, this is primarily for the coach of my kids to use for game review, and second to that is to potentially use short plays for highlight reels. From that stand point, I need to be center field, and about 20 feet or so above the action. I cant do that from the sideline. The primary point of the 20 foot to 30 foot height is for coaches to see how a player reacts to what is going on around him. In particular, though I am REALLY bad at this still, trying to keep the movement of the ball in the center of the camera, so that the coach can see both the left and right side of the action as it unfolds is important. They want to see how a player does, and reacts, as it happens. For that, I need about 1/4 to 1/3 of the field in the video so that if, for example one of our players is moving the ball up, the coach can see how the defense is reacting and further, how more of our team reacts to the defense reacting.

From a highlight reel perspective, college coaches also want to see the same sort of thing. In order to ascertain if they wish to spend money to drive/fly out to some event and watch a high school kid play to then determine if they have interest in the player, usually a highlight reel is requested/desired to avoid wasting time/money. I went to a couple of college recruitment camps (for one of my sons who is looking to earn a scholarship if possible), and all of the recruiters said the same thing. Get elevated angled footage with a 1/3 or so of the field in view so that the scouts can see how the player is reacting/moving/etc. In the case of a highlight reel, each 5 second to 30 second clip should also point out the player to be seen. In my case I add a little slow motion/blur/de-saturate all but the player.. who remains in color, focus, and slow/freeze for a couple seconds. Most reels use a big ugly arrow pointer, I dont like that.

As for the lens.. I absolutely agree having the ability to zoom in and out (even manually) without losing focus/exposure (parfocal? cant remember the name now) would be fantastic. Unfortunately I have been trying to build my overall kit for various activities and a lens is still on the TODO list, but have not yet been able to put the money aside for that. I was really wanting the 18-35 sigma first, because it seems like such a good all around lens for most things.

In one video I shot, I used my Rokinon 85mm Cine. It was a little closer, but it is really hard to follow the action using my 7" Atomos screen with the camera.

So I have two setups I use. One is at games where I am at a stadium, like high school games. At our home games because the coach and I are buddies, he lets me in to use the press box, and I am able to climb up to the roof and get great elevated shots. However, I use a tripod in this situation, and the one thing that irks me is the arc of the panning that occurs. E.g. center (50 yard line) is even.. but as I pan left or right, the angle of the video slightly changes when watching it because of the arc the camera swings on the tripod. Is there any way to offset that on a tripod? Not sure if there is something I should do on my tripod to get smooth left to right panning without the slight arc when its far left or far right. I end up sometimes doing a little rotation in post.. though I gave up on that because of how many times in a game I go back and forth from left to right. Soccer is just WAY too unpredictable.

The second way I do this is with my 21 foot HiPod setup, when I am at a tournament, and can only be on the sideline. This works out pretty good in that I use my Sony AX53, record via HDMI to my Atomos Inferno in DNxHR 4K. I think daylight games.. this is a better setup. Plus, there doesnt appear to be any arc as I turn the camera left/right. Not sure why that is..but the overall video looks more like what you see on TV. The camera is plenty good for this purpose, and I was using it for games at high school too on tripod..and may still go back to it. The BM setup is a little more complicated having different lenses, no focus, etc.. the Sony has it all built in.

This is never a paying gig. I mostly do this to support my kids teams, and to hopefully have some footage to make them highlight reels. I have tried so many times to offer other parents a highlight reel. I have tons of footage of many kids, and told parents I would charge them $200 to make a reel. A fraction of the cost it should be given the time involved. However, all I do is request they go through the games, and make a list of start/stop timecode of clips they want for their highlight reel. NOBODY does it. Not one!! It is ridiculous. Despite many of the kids want to play on.. they never do it.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 4:35 am

Yup.. I record 4K LT right now to ensure I have enough room on my 500GB SSD. Really hoping BRAW 12bit uses the same sort of storage space as LT or 422.

I changed over to Film to Video Extended and it does come out better. I really dont want to grade this stuff, its just direct to youtube for the coach/team to review.

So I set it for evening game using ISO 400, 120shutter speed, 30fps capture, 4K. With the 28mm "photo" lens, it seemed to me to be a little better (short highlight:
). I forgot to bring the 85mm, so its quite far back getting most of the field.

I picked up a Benro (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _75mm.html) and will mount my Manfrotto Nitro N12 to it. I am hoping the combo works out well enough. I gotta believe it will be much better than my current stuff.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 11:24 am

A Benro is not bad, even with their own heads.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:49 pm

Thats good to know because it will have to last a while. I have the Sachtler Flow (not sure the full name, the one where you adjust one lever for each leg instead of 2/3/4 per leg, and it just easily slides up or down) in my wanted list. I think the Nitro head I have is good enough for now. My other setup should sit fine on my older Manfrotto legs/head.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 11:38 pm

Music to my ears!! The one I got is aluminum.. this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _75mm.html
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rick.lang

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Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 2:43 am

Anyone recommend a fluid head to go with that Benro in a 100mm bowl that will hold at least 30 lbs? My maximum rig is about 25 pounds and could grow.

I really like the OConnor 30L sticks for stability. But Benro much less expensive. I have given up on the OConnor 1030Ds head as I just can’t spend that much money.


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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 9:52 pm

Those Oconors look a lot like my Benro. I just opened that one up, 75mm bowl, put my Nitro head on it, fits in the bag it comes in too. Havent tried it yet though but feels a lot better than my other sticks.

What do you think about the Sachtler Flowtech 75 or 100? I really like the way it looks and operates, and I think it can handle a 44 pounds. My Nitrotech says 18lbs.. does that mean a 30lb rig will break the head or it wont pan/tilt or something?

Guess I would need to step up to one of those big $5K legs/head to support a Red or Alexa one day. :D
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 10:10 pm

Yah..I have noticed that about the carbon vs aluminum.. what is the reason..just the weight? I assumed it was stronger too and could hold more weight.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 10:52 pm

I gotta believe that even if it were more expensive, people would buy the gear. I mean I have never had a paying job and may never..yet I bought the MixPre 10T, BMPCC4K, etc because I want good gear (without having to sell a limb) in the event that I CAN do a gig. Even so, I cant imagine it being like 3x the price or something, so a good set of legs at $2500 or so, costing $5K or so if it had the combo you speak of, people would buy it especially if it allowed more weight support and was lighter.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 11:00 pm

A couple of thoughts:

1. Regarding shutter speed: You know how a live football broadcast looks, well, "live" and and NFL films edit of that same game looks "epic"? A small part of the reason why is frame rate and shutter speed. If you're trying to create reference footage for coaching, and not a "film" then shoot 60P with a shutter speed high enough to freeze the action.

2. I'm really curious, given what you're trying to accomplish, why use the Pocket 4K? I love this camera, but it's definitely not the tool I would choose to shoot sports. (It's the camera I would choose to shoot a movie about sports.) A decent 4K camcorder with a wide ranging, servo powered zoom lens would be far easier to work with.
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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 4:31 pm

The OConnor 30L tripod uses that ‘crutch’ style of two shafts for each leg so it’s supposed to be more rigid and resist turning compared to a single shaft leg.

As for the rig exceeding the rated weight for a fluid head, although you could break something internal, it’s going to be more susceptible to jerky movements and more difficult to balance. With a head like the 1030Ds, with continuous counterbalance, you can control movement with a finger and it will stay where you put it without drift or bounce.

With my Manfrotto, I certainly exceed the weight and therefore I have to increase tension on the whole system to prevent drift and smooth movement becomes very difficult as a result.


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Justin Jackson

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 7:18 pm

@joe:
So, good observations. I am actually just trying to learn/play with the BMPCC4K to see how it does. I actually have a Prosumer Sony AX53 4K that I feed to my Atomos Inferno and record in DNxHR with. I even have a 21 foot tripod setup with long HDMI, remote, power cables to get good elevated footage. I use this setup at games when I have no stands/elevation. I was using my AX53 on a tripod as well and it works very well. I will most likely go back to that with one exception. Night games it doesnt do so well. It works OK, but the problem with the AX53 is it has only 1 manual mode option. I have to set that on Focus, so that when I move/pan camera, it doesnt continually try to auto focus. When I do that, I lose the ability to control iris, so as the field is lit better in some areas than others at night, the auto iris mode kicks in (since I am on manual focus mode) and you see the sort of stepped brighter/darker changes in the video. It is not a big deal, as I am ONLY shooting for coach review AND to make highlight reels for kids which has yet to happen. If anything the highlight reels would be a bit more epic style, but they are not to have music, etc. Scouts HATE watching videos with music to them (though I dont understand why its a big deal to just mute it... apparently most of them just toss it out if they hear music/audio).
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rick.lang

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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 7:42 pm

It may be the music can be distracting if the scouts are concentrating on player skills.


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Re: Filming sports with BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 11:50 pm

Yup..exactly. Well that and you may piss them off if you choose music they dont like... and apparently it is too hard to just turn it down. A lot of kids put music to it and post it on youtube to share with friends/family as well. Or a lot of parents put music to it to make it appear cool as the events unfold and music is pumping.
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