How do I update alembic scenes in Fusion 8.2

I have a scene with about 20 animated objects loaded as alembic scene and textured in fusion.
Now I have updated the animation and desperately try to get the updated animation shown in fusion.
All I found so far was to reimport the scene and reconnect all texture nodes but that can't be it. Am I wrong? Any help appreciated.

Fusion .comp files are pure text archives.

So, I guess you can edit them in any text editor and replace the path to the old alembic files with the path to new one, wherever it appears in the file.

But the objects names must be the same, otherwise you will have to change them too.

Maybe with minor changes you will be able to get your comp working without linking all the textures.

Fusion .comp files are pure text archives.

So, I guess you can edit them in any text editor and replace the path to the old alembic files with the path to new one, wherever it appears in the file.

But the objects names must be the same, otherwise you will have to change them too.

Maybe with minor changes you will be able to get your comp working without linking all the textures.

You are joking right?
One of the main purposes of alembic files is to stream them from disc like a video file. So it should simply update when overwritten as long as it includes the same geometry. Having to edit a comp file manually is ridiculous. Is Black magic new to the industrie? Sometimes it seems like it.
Fusion is just not ready for serious production. I'm switching back to nuke.

Achim,

I think you guys are talking about different things. What you describe (reimporting/reconnecting) isn't necessary. I think Adelson thought that you had created new files (with different names)
in a situation like this a 'search and replace' in the comp file can be useful.

From your description I think you've just overwritten the previous version of the Alembic files with new ones. So all filenames/paths are the same, but you don't see this reflected in your animation.

This is probably because Fusion has cached the previous version in memory (to prevent diskaccess/streaming from disk). This is normally a good thing, but in your case you want to refresh the loaders. You can do this by right-clicking in the memory indicator on the bottom right and selecting 'purge cache' and then 'rerender current frame' and for the heck of it 'reload FBX meshes' as well. This will clear everything that's currently in memory and will force Fusion to reload the Alembic files.

An alternative way is to select the Alembic loaders, setting them to passthrough and back to normal.
This will force a reload as well.

Lastly, saying that Fusion isn't ready for serious production because you don't know how it works yet, is not a very realistic approach. Did Nuke do everything you wanted the way you wanted it to the first time you used it?

Yes, there are bugs - as with every software - but I've personally done over 500 vfx shots for feature films in Fusion all by myself on a single workstation, so it's pretty production ready IMO.

-

I already had edited .comp files to replace FBX geometries by newer versions located inside other folders, so it is not a "ridiculous idea"

Oh, and I interrupted a "serious production work" trying to help you because you said you were "desperate"

But, since you are switching back to Nuke, I think we will not see you around here again, no?

Cheers

Achim,

I think you guys are talking about different things. What you describe (reimporting/reconnecting) isn't necessary. I think Adelson thought that you had created new files (with different names)
in a situation like this a 'search and replace' in the comp file can be useful.

From your description I think you've just overwritten the previous version of the Alembic files with new ones. So all filenames/paths are the same, but you don't see this reflected in your animation.

This is probably because Fusion has cached the previous version in memory (to prevent diskaccess/streaming from disk). This is normally a good thing, but in your case you want to refresh the loaders. You can do this by right-clicking in the memory indicator on the bottom right and selecting 'purge cache' and then 'rerender current frame' and for the heck of it 'reload FBX meshes' as well. This will clear everything that's currently in memory and will force Fusion to reload the Alembic files.

An alternative way is to select the Alembic loaders, setting them to passthrough and back to normal.
This will force a reload as well.

Lastly, saying that Fusion isn't ready for serious production because you don't know how it works yet, is not a very realistic approach. Did Nuke do everything you wanted the way you wanted it to the first time you used it?

Yes, there are bugs - as with every software - but I've personally done over 500 vfx shots for feature films in Fusion all by myself on a single workstation, so it's pretty production ready IMO.

I did purge the cache. This was one of the first things I did. I should see the new keyframes in the timeline, right? well I didn't. It didn't update anything, thats why I'm posting here
And people have created a lot of stuff in all kinds of software. That alone doesn't qualify a software for anything. It's the efficiency and the speed of the workflow, the reliability and how intelligent the architecture is designed what makes a good software. And the communication with the developers for that matter. I have worked with almost any software in the realm of vxf, 3d and composition. I have comparisons.
I have just rebuild a complete setup in nuke because fusion is not capable of rendering a simple comp with 20 text cards in fusions 3d space over 300 frame of 4k footage. I don't know if this is because of bugs features or whatever. I just didn't work. If I can not do a simple common setup in a software, the no, the software is not ready. If you guys are willing to use software that is takes up more of you time budget than necessary, it's your decision. Only I wonder why everyone around me is complaining about low budgets and the lack of profit except me.

fusion is not capable of rendering a simple comp with 20 text cards in fusions 3d space over 300 frame of 4k footage

Are you interested in learning something or not? Making factually incorrect statements without backing them up with any sort of evidence isn't helping anyone. Unless it helps you feel better when you get so frustrated and upset that you feel the need to make yourself look ignorant in a public forum, of course.

fusion is not capable of rendering a simple comp with 20 text cards in fusions 3d space over 300 frame of 4k footage

Are you interested in learning something or not? Making factually incorrect statements without backing them up with any sort of evidence isn't helping anyone. Unless it helps you feel better when you get so frustrated and upset that you feel the need to make yourself look ignorant in a public forum, of course.

See, that is the point. If I have to take a course to do something so simple as updating an alembic file which literally works the same in every software because that is what it was designed for, I better switch to the software where it works as expected.

Only I wonder why everyone around me is complaining about low budgets and the lack of profit except me

Helping other users does not generate any kind of profit. But we do the same way...

Moving forward, this topic is about difficulties in updating an imported alembic scene, and someone else could have this issue.

I do not have an alembic file at this moment, but this can be a solution:

1 - Export the new version of the alembic file to a different path
2 - Edit the .comp file replacing the old path with the new one
3 - Rename the old path to break any connection of Fusion with it
4 - Open the new .comp file in a different computer that has never opened the old one, to avoid any type of local cache Fusion could had built.

Chad, this could work?

Only I wonder why everyone around me is complaining about low budgets and the lack of profit except me

Helping other users does not generate any kind of profit. But we do the same way...

Moving forward, this topic is about difficulties in updating an imported alembic scene, and someone else could have this issue.

I do not have an alembic file at this moment, but this can be a solution:

1 - Export the new version of the alembic file to a different path
2 - Edit the .comp file replacing the old path with the new one
3 - Rename the old path to break any connection of Fusion with it
4 - Open the new .comp file in a different computer that has never opened the old one, to avoid any type of local cache Fusion could had built.

Chad, this could work?

I tried everything suggested here except editing the comp file because this is out of the question as a sensible workflow. Nothing updates my alembic files. Even restarting fusion and reloading the scene does not update anything. It is as if all the animation is baked in the scene instead of streaming it from the disk. Funny, there is a reload fbx meshes button, but no reload alembic scene button.

Oh, and by the way, I have plenty of time to help others, which I do regularly, because I use efficient software...

I tried everything suggested here except editing the comp file because this is out of the question as a sensible workflow.

You are misunderstanding workflow with workaround.

We are trying to solve your problem not creating a definite way of doing things.

If it turns out your problem is due to a Fusion bug, or a lack of a feature, the Blackmagic staff do read these forums and certainly will address this issue in future releases.

So if you post your problems clearly with more information and less frustration, it's more likely you get good answers, a temporary solution and, in the long term, a better workflow.

It's not a bug. As others in the thread have mentioned, the files are cached. Nuke doesn't cache, Fusion does. Fusion is faster because of it. If you need to purge the cache to refresh, then do so, it's the cost of getting the speedup from having the data cached. If you want software that doesn't cache and runs slow, then yeah, Fusion probably isn't the tool for the job.

You don't need to edit the .comp file, you just need to choose the new alembic file. If for some reason you are overwriting production assets, then yeah, you need to manually work around it. But I've never worked on a production where overwriting production assets was allowed, so this never comes up for me.

achim dietze is total right!

if you load the alembic file via "file->import->alembic scene" into you comp all animated nodes are baked into the fusion composition. if you load the alembic file via the "alembic mesh loader" node it got streamed from the file. in this case you can clear the cache and get the new file

but if you create the scene from the alembic file you cant update it in a eays way

But that's true of any "import" or "export" function, right? I wouldn't expect EDL or PSD to dynamically update when the original file changed.

achim dietze is total right!

if you load the alembic file via "file->import->alembic scene" into you comp all animated nodes are baked into the fusion composition. if you load the alembic file via the "alembic mesh loader" node it got streamed from the file. in this case you can clear the cache and get the new file

but if you create the scene from the alembic file you cant update it in a eays way

I see. And since I have to load alembic cameras via load alembic scenes, there is no wasy way to update the camera. And If I want to load a complex scene with many objects, loading via mesh is also not an option.
Fusion is not ready for serious work. It lacks intelligent concepts.

But that's true of any "import" or "export" function, right? I wouldn't expect EDL or PSD to dynamically update when the original file changed.

LOL, of course I do. AFX has this explicit functionality for PSDs and that is just one example. Alembic is not supposed to be imported at all. That is the core of the design to keep it outside you app and load it on render time.
Your I do not even ask for a dynamic update but at least an update when I reload the scene or something.

Your I do not even ask for a dynamic update but at least an update when I reload the scene or something.

That's not how "import" works in Fusion, or in any other application I've ever used. If you intend to change anything in your comp, how would Fusion know what parts you wanted to override from the file?

As a workaround, you can import the new alembic elements using "alembic mesh loader", and do Ctrl-C on them as use "Paste settings" on the old ones.

By doing this, the pasted elements will be, from this point, linked to the alembic files on disk and , therefore, reflect any future changes.

The textures you applied will be preserved, so you will not have to do all the shading work again.

I guess this will not work, because any transformations are in fusion a separate node (3d transform) and with the method you get only the changes in the mesh/points

Hi Michael,

Lets suppose the followiing situation

The alembic mesh has a self movement, (for example a planet spining its self axis), and in Fusion you use a 3D transform node to move it in orbit around a star.

Lets suppose you decided the planet should spin backwards. You, then, re-export the alembic mesh from your 3D software.

If you use the method above, Fusion will import the new mesh, with the new spinning movement and preserve the 3D Transform movement.

Thats because you are solely replacing the meshes. Everything else in the comp (transforms, lights, cameras, textures) will remain unaltered, no?

Sounds ok for one or two objects with little hierarchy

But in the a case like the OP has its no fun to replace more objects and even export them separately

Hi,
I just got the case here with cameras...
If I may, is there any sort of workaround script available out there for updating the actually loaded keyframes on cameras and transform nodes ?
In nuke there is a "reload" button

I'm not a "script guy" but it seems that this workaround can be automated via script:

1 - Export from your 3D software every alembic element that needs to be replaced

2 - Get the path of the new alembic elements on disk

3 - By script, Fusion import each alembic mesh (which can include cameras), copy and pastes its settings over every node already in the composition by the imported version which has the same name.

4 - Fusion removes the imported meshes (since it will not be necessary anymore)

After this, the new meshes will be linked to the files on disk, and thus will reflect any further changes on them.

Sounds feasible?

AFAIK there is no function in the which does the same as the import menu

changes to the geometry itself will updated already with the current import, the difficult thing is that all translation/rotation/scale animations are baked into the fusion comp and not linked to the file

The lack of an "import" function by script can indeed be an obstacle.

But the behavior of the "alembic mesh import" is different from "alembic scene import". The first does not bake the object's animation. The latter does.

But the behavior of the "alembic mesh import" is different from "alembic scene import". The first does not bake the object's animation. The latter does.

and thats the whole point of the discussion

for complex scenes and animation you dont want to export and import every object as a seperate alembic file. it is just stupid and second you would loose the scene hierachy and the depending animations.

using the import scene option gives you the right hierachy and all animations but you loose the update function

Michael, I believe the point of the discussion is that Achim imported an alembic scene and thought this established a link to the file instead of a "classic" import.

He did not wanted to lose all the work done in Fusion and thought there was an easy way of "refreshing" or "relinking" the alembic scene.

Since it seems that is not possible, an "workaround" that can preserve the work done in Fusion is to export the meshes individually and import them in Fusion.

If this demands less work than reimporting the entire scene and redoing all the Fusion work, only he can say. If so, it will be a solution for his problem, not a regular or recomended workflow.

So this approach is "stupid" as a method but can indeed solve his problem. And that was the reason he opened this thread in the first place.

Since it seems that is not possible, an "workaround" that can preserve the work done in Fusion is to export the meshes individually and import them in Fusion.

Are there any reference to animated meshs in this discussion ??
I think the thread speaks about Object Animation AKA Keyframes. Can be on transforms cameras, transform3d etc...

Imagine you're working on adding fire on 20 more lamps in a 3d rendered scene, with an animated camera of course.
So your teammate is exporting you the scene in alembic so you can get the camera movement and the torchs placements, plus the walls occluding them if any.
Now you parent your fx to the imported torchs positions, almost done !

Now the client changed the torch placement and the camera movement...
- If the transforms were "streamed" keyframes, you should have only some minor change in your comp...
- but in fusion ... actually you have to redo the work, reimport, swap things etc...