BMCC6K Facts and Findings

The 6kFF sensor is noticeably warmer and more saturated colours than the 6kS35. Some prefer warmer looks, I know I do most of the time.
Pushing the temperature to get a warmer and more saturated look is not ideal because you are basically increasing the colour channels and driving up colour noise that why colour filters and jell or lighting is more preferable. Similarly if you want a cooler image if you best avoid pushing the temperature or you get a lots of blue noise.

Reinforcing your point. Matteo is comparing BMPCC6K vs BMCC6K in this short video here. And you can clearly see that the Pocket 6k leans a bit more green or magenta and the BMCC6k is a bit warmer, maybe more neutral?

Here is his comments on the test:

"In this video I put side by side my beloved BMPCC6K and my new BMCC6K Full Frame. This is NOT a scientific test, but I tried my best to have the exact same settings on both cameras. The first thing I noticed was the big difference in tint calibration. The full frame seems to be more neutral, where the original Pocket 6K has a slight green tint. The windows of my apartment also have a pretty strong green tint, but the full frame seems to handle it better. I didn't match the footage in this video, but you can easily do so by bringing down the tint on the full frame or bring it up on the BMPCC6K. I also noticed less noise in the full frame at 400 ISO, but the BMCC6K is definitely noisier after you switch to 1250 and go up. I included the log clips of the last shot so you can see how is the noise in the ungraded image. Of course it was pitch black and I very rarely shoot at 3200, but it's something to keep in mind. I have to say, the noise goes away quite easily with some noise reduction. Another thing I noticed is that there are more details in the full frame image compared to the Pocket 6K."

1. Using a relatively unknown EF-to-L mount adapter (YKEASU, purchased from Amazon), the new FF camera cannot control the iris via the iris dial.
- I already updated the latest firmware 8.3.2.
- Lens tested (cannot control iris): Tamron 24-70mm EF f/2.8; sigma 18-35mm EF f/1.8.

==> I don't know if the EF-to-L adapter causes the problem, or if BMCC6K ff has an issue controlling the iris for some EF lens.

Remarks: I can control the iris of these lenses on my URSA broadcast g2, and bmpcc4k.

4. battery consumption
- assumptions: from 2 recent separate youtube battery tests, a single NP 570 should last almost an hour when shooting in open gate mode. Even when you see the red battery warning, the battery should last for another 10+ min.
- My casual testing (different modes, many power on/off, screen brightness 10%) finds a single NP 570 3500mAh lasts about 30min before the red battery warning appears). It's much shorter than 1 hour.

I'm using Sigma's EF-L adapter for my Canon 24-70 2.8 and it works fine, iris control also. But for some reason when the iris is at 2.8 camera says it's 2.9, but it looks ok.

There are problems with power issues. I got a high quality and efficient bower bank that produces up to 100W 3A, that should be enough. With it, the control of the iris does not work, nor the phantom power of the microphone. The camera will not record with it either! ..In the beginning it was, but now suddenly not. So I'm interested if anyone here has any experience of using the bower bank with success.

In addition, after the firmware update, all functioning button functions do not work.

Lähetetty minun SM-S906B laitteesta Tapatalkilla

Back to the BMCC6k…

Anyone seeing odd status light behavior when plugged into the AC adapter and charging the OEM battery?

I’m using the battery grip and it’s been charging all three OEM batteries all night - this morning, the status light on top is toggling between amber, red, and off. I don’t think I’ve ever seen my Pocket 4k cameras do that. Anyone else see this?

EDIT: A quick Google search showed others having issues with various BMD cameras and odd amber/yellow status light behavior…but no definitive answers from either anecdotal experience nor BMD support.

EDIT 2: I talked on the phone with BMD support. They are having me test each individual battery, which I have already done. Can anyone confirm that their BMCC6k shows an amber/yellow status light when plugged into AC without the battery installed?

Yes I'm having this light yellow led when having power adapter without battery. Also other power issues.. can not adjust iris or record with external power bank.

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The difference is a minimal, minimal, minimal tweak of tint and color temperature. You guys need to stop obsessing about this. It. Does. Not. Matter.

I won't link to the video again where you can download shots of the same scene from both cams to match them yourself.

The difference is a minimal, minimal, minimal tweak of tint and color temperature. You guys need to stop obsessing about this. It. Does. Not. Matter.

I won't link to the video again where you can download shots of the same scene from both cams to match them yourself.

mmm, I honestly don't agree. The differences are not minimal. Generally speaking, the FF has deeper colors, more resolution and less noise (up to around 2000 ISO). It's also noisier than the Pocket in low light (ISO 3200).

If, on a blind test, you can always, 99% of the time, distinguish between the two cameras, then this is strong evidence that the difference is not 'minimal'. If it were minimal your performance would be, say, 70% vs 30%, or 60% vs 40% accuracy.

I am not saying that you can't match the two cameras pretty well, just that the image differences that these two cameras produce do exist and that I don't consider them to be minimal.

Someone in this forum was saying before that because the two cameras have similar sensor technology (albeit different in size), they should produce very similar images. Well, an image is not just the result of the sensor technology: the internal processing power of the camera plays an important role (that's why cinema camera bodies are larger than mirrorless ones, in spite of having, in many cases, identical sensor technology). And besides internal processing, also having an OLPF, gathering more net light per scene (FF vs s35), having larger photosites, etc, play a role in image quality (albeit having same sensor technology).

Generally speaking, the FF has deeper colors, more resolution and less noise (up to around 2000 ISO).

I mean nothing of this is true.

For the last time: a minimal tweak of tint and temperature and you will not be able to distinguish color, saturation or contrast in a blind test anymore. Tweaking is too little to introduce any degradation of the image and even if it did: no-one would care except pixel peepers.

I'll not engage anymore on this topic, some guys obviously prefer to believe what they want to believe instead of testing themselves.

The difference is a minimal, minimal, minimal tweak of tint and color temperature. You guys need to stop obsessing about this. It. Does. Not. Matter.

I won't link to the video again where you can download shots of the same scene from both cams to match them yourself.

If you were speaking to me. That was not my intention at all. I don't find the difference in tint to be a big deal at all. In fact I kinda prefer the tint of the BMCC6k. And I agree that if a match was needed, it would not be much trouble. I didn't get the sense that Matteo felt like the tint difference was a problem or something to worry about either. It is more just another data point or observation of what to expect when compared to the previous 6k. More just information rather than an issue or problem.

So I've been shooting some low light footage with this camera and I have to say ... I don't see what everyone is complaining about. Yes, this camera is noisey, but coming from Ursa's and a Pocket 4K/6K, it's MILES ahead. Very organic noise with little color, and importantly, colors of subjects hold up very well. I think people have gotten so spoiled with low light shooting recently, while I'm pretty blown away with the low light footage coming from this camera.

The only thing which is really annoying (and BM PLEASE fix this), it that the large amount of (pleasant) noise completely throws off peaking above iso 1250, making it virtually useless. I can't recall this happening on my 6K ever.

So I've been shooting some low light footage with this camera and I have to say ... I don't see what everyone is complaining about. Yes, this camera is noisey, but coming from Ursa's and a Pocket 4K/6K, it's MILES ahead. Very organic noise with little color, and importantly, colors of subjects hold up very well. I think people have gotten so spoiled with low light shooting recently, while I'm pretty blown away with the low light footage coming from this camera.

The only thing which is really annoying (and BM PLEASE fix this), it that the large amount of (pleasant) noise completely throws off peaking above iso 1250, making it virtually useless. I can't recall this happening on my 6K ever.

De-noised Focus Peaking would be amazing.

Yes, this camera is noisey, but coming from Ursa's and a Pocket 4K/6K, it's MILES ahead.

With 'miles ahead' you mean how the noise itself looks, not the amount?

Yes that's right Michael, and here I'm especially comparing to the 4k which I've shot a ton with in the second gain stage, but also I feel like it's better than the 6k. I'm planning on doing a side by side with the 6k next week, because it might just be confirmation bias, but I'm really happy with what I'm seeing.

I mean nothing of this is true.

For the last time: a minimal tweak of tint and temperature and you will not be able to distinguish color, saturation or contrast in a blind test anymore. Tweaking is too little to introduce any degradation of the image and even if it did: no-one would care except pixel peepers.

I'll not engage anymore on this topic, some guys obviously prefer to believe what they want to believe instead of testing themselves.

TBH I'm done with keep on tweaking temperature and tint to get something to look right. Did you know tweaking this and that you are adding colour gains? It cost time and and more likely to turn into a mess. It may look ok to you but not everyone see it the way you do.

I think what he's mostly saying is that when you aren't doing a side by side the difference would be so negligible as to not matter. No one was complaining about the green tinted shadows before.

I'm planning on doing a side by side with the 6k next week, because it might just be confirmation bias, but I'm really happy with what I'm seeing.

Nice.

[CaptainHook]

Adjusting white balance and tint is one of the main tools I use. When I graded Johns launch footage 90% of what I did was tweaking exposure/wb/tint.

You can alter the mood/vibe/look of a shot a lot just by making adjustments with wb/tint:

[CaptainHook]

Did you know tweaking this and that you are adding colour gains?

Depending on what adjustments are made, you might be subtracting gains. But this is the basis for just about all the main colour processing tools. Getting it as close as possible to how you want in camera for sure is a worthy goal, but I wouldn't be too scared of colour correction either. It's a great tool and can definitely elevate images.

"If your number one priority is image quality, not functions, not features, not low light or IBIS, if you are just after the best possible image quality, well [this is the best 'bang for the buck' camera you can get]" (Gary Scaife, Oliver Brian Productions, UK)

Since Gary owns an Alexa Mini it would be nice if he makes an image test comparison with the BMCC 6K FF.

Free EVF if you buy any of the Pocket cameras that takes it including this one for 1 week.

Do any other BMCC6k owners use the 6k Pro battery grip? If so, please confirm this odd behavior: attach the grip and charge with the 12V AC adapter—what does the top status LED do at the end of charging all three batteries?

On mine, it cycles through amber—>red—>off and never fully charges the third battery. I’m still trying to figure out what the amber LED status indicates as I’ve never seen that on my other Blackmagic cameras. BMD support wasn’t helpful with this either…


EDIT: I’ve tried two different BMD 6k Pro battery grips, both do this. So, I’ve gone back to tried-and-true v-mount solution and re-rigged everything last night for a relatively compact setup.

One more impressions breakdown.

TERRIBLY Misunderstood! Full-Frame Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K [Review w/ Footage]

Free EVF if you buy any of the Pocket cameras that takes it including this one for 1 week.

Oh snap! I placed the order on Nov 18, I missed that offer so you think if I contact BMD they would send me a free EVF?

Maybe you can return it and re-order? I did that at BH and they honored it even though the EVF is on back order (I live in NYC) A $500 EVF is a great throw in…

Maybe you can return it and re-order? I did that at BH and they honored it even though the EVF is on back order (I live in NYC) A $500 EVF is a great throw in…

I sent the shop an email, if they don’t honor it, I’ll send it back and place a new order. I hope it works.

One more impressions breakdown.

TERRIBLY Misunderstood! Full-Frame Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K [Review w/ Footage]

What a silly review. I get that he’s trying to be funny but suggesting that anyone who has a problem with the shortcomings of this camera is are brain dead is idiotic. He also makes several factually incorrect statements like BM doesn’t advertise this as a low light camera (they say it is in their own copy) and assuming that everyone who edits braw does so in Resolve (I’m a Premiere editor). I do agree that you have to have different expectations/workflows for this camera vs Sony fx, etc. but insulting viewers from the very start of your video doesn’t work. I’m looking forward to CineD’s review and hoping Gerald Undone does one, too.

Agree, clickbait (like most YouTuber's content anyways).

Just an FYI regarding proxies and off-speed recording on the BMCC6k...

Doing more testing today and I realized that off-speed recording doesn't get along well with the auto-recorded proxies and they can't be used in Davinci Resolve when editing. I double checked the manual and it states:

"Proxy media files are always recorded matching your camera’s project frame rate."

This means if your project frame rate is 24fps and you record a 48fps off-speed clip, you'll only get a realtime 24fps proxy, not a 48fps proxy slowed down to 24fps. This unfortunately defeats the purpose of auto-recording proxies for offspeed clips for 99.9% of the cases where you'd use them.

I don't use proxies (though with the BMCC6k I was thinking of starting), but this may impact those people who do.

Some non-edited handheld shots with the BMCC 6K FF at Venice Beach, LA. This camera has a mojo.

Lens: DZOFilm Vespid 75mm
Adapter: Fotodiox Vizelex Smart ND adapter

"An afternoon of continuous footage captured at the iconic location, showcasing the camera's prowess. We used a simple Blackmagic 709 conversion LUT, with no further color adjustments. To really push the limits of what the cameras capable of, we experimented with a bunch of different aspect ratios and frame rates.

The results? Stunning. The dynamic range and color rendition of these cameras are impressive, surpassing the 6K Pro and closely rivaling our Ursa 12K bodies. The depth and vibrancy of the images are a significant step up from the pocket lineup." (Maty Young, Young One Studio)

I mean the same guy also writes:
"Using a variable ND adapter over internal NDs is ironically much better."

Maybe he confuses shallower DoF with "depth and vibrancy".

There's already a very telling side by side comparison between 6K and 6KFF which shows color and DR are basically identical but apparently people need more of them to stop expectations and presumptions from letting them see things that aren't there.

In my use of the 6kFF, I've really enjoyed the 'full frame look'. I know that gets run into the ground, but going from the depth of the 6k Pro to the 6k FF really does make a difference.

The fact that the cameras have the same dynamic range and base ISOs and even data rates are a big plus for me. I've shot with the 6k Pro since it came out and I know the limitations it brings. Just as I'm learning the limitations of the 6kFF, I'm getting to know how it also enhances the shots I'm getting.

Every camera will have 'downsides' or 'negatives', but I really look to see if the camera does the things I need and does them well. I'd LOVE internal NDs on the 6kFF, but it's not a dealbreaker. I'd love ProRes on the 6kFF, but I can't remember the last time I shot anything but BRAW, including corporate clients!

In my use of the 6kFF, I've really enjoyed the 'full frame look'. I know that gets run into the ground, but going from the depth of the 6k Pro to the 6k FF really does make a difference.

FF depth of field - along with L-Mount - is the differentiator. But this guy (other YouTubers too) talks about "color rendition", "vibrancy" and dynamic range being much better on the 6K FF.

I think they're falling to that illusion because:

A) the shallower DoF and added compression of using longer focal lengths / more distance between cam and subject can add more three-dimensional feel and

B) the 6K FF is a bit warmer out of the box. If you take any image, from any camera, and make it a little warmer, chances are you will like it better and feel that there is more 'depth' to it. Turn the Pocket 6K a few Kelvin warmer and you'll get that same "color rendition" they think they are seeing from the new 6K when really it's the same.

In my use of the 6kFF, I've really enjoyed the 'full frame look'. I know that gets run into the ground, but going from the depth of the 6k Pro to the 6k FF really does make a difference.

FF depth of field - along with L-Mount - is the differentiator. But this guy (other YouTubers too) talks about "color rendition", "vibrancy" and dynamic range being much better on the 6K FF.

I think they're falling to that illusion because:

A) the shallower DoF and added compression of using longer focal lengths / more distance between cam and subject can add more three-dimensional feel and

B) the 6K FF is a bit warmer out of the box. If you take any image, from any camera, and make it a little warmer, chances are you will like it better and feel that there is more 'depth' to it. Turn the Pocket 6K a few Kelvin warmer and you'll get that same "color rendition" they think they are seeing from the new 6K when really it's the same.

So what color temp do you the think for the Pocket 6k?

So if the Cinema 6k is 5600, you'd would put the Pocket at 5800?

I can't look rn but you can download footage of both cams and test.

6K Pro is a little colder and greener iirc.

You know I see the same kinds of differences whenever I compare the same copy of a camera.

No two sensors even from the same model are exactly the same. There are alarmist always copy to copy variations that display as differences in WB and tint.

Yes. Even on Alexa.

But these are normally easily corrected with very minor adjustments.

The majority of the differences being talked about here look like to me copy to copy variation.

No kne is testing multiple copies of the same camera to compare I see either…

JB

You know I see the same kinds of differences whenever I compare the same copy of a camera.

No two sensors even from the same model are exactly the same. There are alarmist always copy to copy variations that display as differences in WB and tint.

Yes. Even on Alexa.

But these are normally easily corrected with very minor adjustments.

The majority of the differences being talked about here look like to me copy to copy variation.

No kne is testing multiple copies of the same camera to compare I see either…

JB

Indeed. Doesn’t make any sense to evaluate non normalized (white balanced) footage. Slight temp/tint variations are meaningless.

The biggest real difference is going to come down to the design of the ir cut/olpf of the bmcc6k. The color processing is different for the cams with the new olpf. The olpf cams probably have to punch up the reds a little to offset the more aggressive ir cut. Under 5600k that may well present a warmer image. Not that I own any tungsten fixtures anymore but it would be interesting to see how they compare in that environment. My guess is that it would swing the other way as R9 saturation is never great at 5600.

Good Luck

Exactly.

The OLPF and IR recipe has changed a lot since the first iteration.

JB

Only tweaked temperature and tint on the 6K Pro. And minimal exposure adjustment in RAW tab to match both - slightly different exposure when recording alone will yield differences.

YouTuber: "The dynamic range and color rendition of these cameras are impressive, surpassing the 6K Pro. The depth and vibrancy of the images are a significant step up from the pocket lineup."

Side by side test: "Is that significant step up in the room with us right now?"

I did notice on the first and second motif that contrast straight out of camera can be more pleasing on the BMCC 6K but also results in earlier crushed highlights. This is all so minuscule though.

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The difference is there even noticeble with an average monitor. Maybe you cant see it. If you are that obsessed maybe you should buy a Pocket 6k LF and be done with it.

Do you do that on purpose? I never said there are no differences, of course there are differences, they are different cameras. I also mention the differences I see above. My point is those differences are so miniscule that they're negligible. Mostly from OLPF.

sober analysis and straight to the point: image quality

"In case you find yourself where I was, debating the new BMCC6k while holding a Sony in hand, here are some of the considerations that convinced me to buy into Blackmagic." (Joshua Lum)

2. The de-squeeze ratio is somewhat "context-sensitive". I'd rather Blackmagic provides a few more options: custom, 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x etc.
e.g. laowa nanomorph 27/35/50mm + super35 mode, only 1.8x de-squeeze is allowed
but using 6k open gate mode (vignette), only 1.6x de-squeeze is allowed

==> Feature request for Blackmagic product team: provide custom de-squeeze ratio!

Just wanted to echo this feature request -- I have 1.33x lenses and would like to use them with open gate.

This camera is far from perfect but it has a 'something', a type of image that you immediately perceive as different from anything coming from an FX3 or FX6, the Canon Cs, or any mirrorless for that matter (even the best ones)

2. The de-squeeze ratio is somewhat "context-sensitive". I'd rather Blackmagic provides a few more options: custom, 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x etc.
e.g. laowa nanomorph 27/35/50mm + super35 mode, only 1.8x de-squeeze is allowed
but using 6k open gate mode (vignette), only 1.6x de-squeeze is allowed

==> Feature request for Blackmagic product team: provide custom de-squeeze ratio!

Just wanted to echo this feature request -- I have 1.33x lenses and would like to use them with open gate.

A 1.6x anamorphic lens on open gate gives you a 2.4:1 widescreen aspect ratio. For spherical lenses, the BMCC6K already offers 2.4:1 via a 6048x2520 window.

A 1.33x anamorphic gives you close to a 2:1 aspect ratio. It seems BMD is favouring a more popular deliverable format. But more options are a good thing for users so it may happen in the future.

Edit
Limited my comments to aspect ratios, not photosites.

2. The de-squeeze ratio is somewhat "context-sensitive". I'd rather Blackmagic provides a few more options: custom, 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x etc.
e.g. laowa nanomorph 27/35/50mm + super35 mode, only 1.8x de-squeeze is allowed
but using 6k open gate mode (vignette), only 1.6x de-squeeze is allowed

==> Feature request for Blackmagic product team: provide custom de-squeeze ratio!

Just wanted to echo this feature request -- I have 1.33x lenses and would like to use them with open gate.

A 1.6x anamorphic lens on open gate gives you a 2.4:1 widescreen aspect ratio with roughly an equivalent 8K horizontal resolution. For spherical lenses, the BMCC6K already offers 2.4:1 via a 6048x2520 window.

A 1.33x anamorphic gives you close to a 2:1 aspect ratio. It seems BMD is favouring a more popular deliverable format. But more options are a good thing for users so it may happen in the future.

Doesn't 1.33x on Open Gate (6048 x 4032) offer 8k? 1.33x6048 = 8044.

Steve, I corrected my previous post to remove the mental error! Thanks.

Cined gave a mostly thumbs down on their test

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-cinema-camera-6k-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-latitude/

Their test don't include anything about IR cut, moire and aliaising or rolloffs but I'm surprise other people who tested shows better shadow when using lower ISO compare to BMPCC6k.

People seem to read what they want to read.

It's hardly a thumbs down.

"The new Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K shows a solid performance in the lab test."

"Latitude is also in the middle ground, nothing special, but better than some recent cameras like the Panasonic LUMIX S5II or the Canon EOS R5 C."

"lab test results for the new full-frame BMCC6K are sort of “copy & paste” from the APS-C sized BMPCC6K and 6K Pro. Hence, a bigger sensor, but everything else is similar."

"In the rolling shutter department, it falls behind compared to most recent consumer full-frame cameras, whereas in the dynamic range department, it is on a similar level, at least for the lower native ISO. The higher native ISO is sort of a problem child; I would stay away from it if possible."

RS and Higher ISO is the only truly negative finding.

JB

Could accept that BMD has a sort of solution for the poor RS
I find this statement disappointing though
"This result is a tad disappointing, as I did expect the 12-bit BRAW codec to have more potential to pull up shadow stops compared to the H.264 or H.265 codecs that are typically available for consumer cameras"

Can future FW improve the higher base ISO DR and noise?

Rolling shutter perfomance is limited by the sensor, best believe they pulled what they could in term of RS and fps. What is a disappointment though is the second ISO stage. Such a bad performer in terms of noise, with a supposedly "whole new camera on the inside" and new sensor with such a big pixel pitch. It really doeasnt make any sense and im hoping that is fixable in firmware, otherwise it really was a bit of an oversell on that whole new internal and sensor part. I would say it's still a great improvement for the new mount and olpf. It's really unlucky though that for now the old models are technically better options for documentary work where you'd find yourself underexposing or tapping in that second "native" iso.