Using the Film Looks LUT in DaVinci Wide Gamut Timeline

I want to use of the Film Looks LUT from DVR (the Rec709 Kodak 2383 D60 for example). I know that i have to use a CST node before this LUT to modify the output gamma to Cineon film Log. When i add this CST and LUT to a timeline that have a color space in REC 709, it works as expected. But if my timeline have a color space in DaVinci Wide Gamut, the result is completely overblown. I imagine that it is because the LUT output in REC709. So i have added a CST node after my LUT node to convert the input color space from Rec 709 (both input color space and input gamma) to DaVinci Wide Gamut. It's way better but it appears less saturated than the version using the same LUT on a Rec 709 timeline. Is that normal or am i doing something wrong?

I'm no expert but if you post screen caps of your pipeline and your two CST settings, maybe someone can advise?

Here is my node tree

Might also help others to see the CST settings for each of your CST nodes (I'm thinking of things like tonal mapping and OOTF, for example).

Here they are :

You may want to stay away from this methodology. The FPE LUT is designed to output including it's characteristics to Rec.709. Undoing the Rec.709 transform from the overarching color management just to go forward again doesn't get you anywhere. The input range the film look itself is designed for is too limited for some modern digital cameras. It was really intended originally for real film scans. It would be better to get some FPE LUTs designed to work in scene reffered log space and don't apply any display conversions inside.

Cullen Kelly, Jake Pierrlee, Filmblade, Juan Muelara offer FPE LUTs/powergrades for free that do exactly this.

If you don't care about the ability to deliver to potentially other displays like P3 or HDR this all doesn't matter much but it also means there is little point in using RCM. Better use DWG/I in a manual management setup so you're not obligated to define the output conversion and use the LUT as the display transform only.

The Juan Melera Kodak 2383 RCM is probably the best one short of a Kodak color scientist.

Cullen Kelly, Jake Pierrlee, Filmblade, Juan Mulara offer FPE LUTs/powergrades for free that do exactly this.

Thanks for that list, Shebbe. One interesting note: all these people do offer film print emulation LUTs and PowerGrades, but I always caution users: none of them agree with each other. I worked for Kodak, Technicolor, ILM, and several other post companies, and everybody used different LUTs -- it's all kind of specious and unpredictable. (And they're also different from Filmbox, Dehancer, FilmConvert, and Film Look Creator, and different from the LUTs inside Baselight or Resolve. Everybody has a different idea of what film is.)

I should mention that PixelTools also has film emulation PowerGrades that will work with DWG/DI:

https://pixeltoolspost.com/

Thanks you for those considerations.

Here is my node tree

The footage is native 709? Shouldn’t the 3rd node be first? I’m guessing the footage isn’t DWGI native.


Good Luck

I'm in Color managed. My footage is in D-Log but that conversion is already done by the color managed process.

OK, but RCM transforms your footage to the output space not the timeline. Using a CST and telling it the input is DWGI, when it’s 709, is likely the issue. Change the CST input to 709 instead of DWGI and the footage will look the same as RCM with a 709 timeline.

Good Luck

Everybody has a different idea of what film is.)

While that's true I don't think it's exclusive to the idea only. The source from which whatever emulation is sampled from will always be different to that from the next. Filmbox is in my opinion one of the best as a whole package but also quite expensive. In their FAQ they also clearly state that while a lot of the tool emulates film stock and print, there is a degree of preferential rendering for both practical and creative reasons.

https://videovillage.com/filmbox/technical_faq

Filmbox does not represent pure empiricism. We certainly tried to gather good data and stay close to that data, but our methods are not perfect, and there were subjective decisions made about how to tune and implement the data into a functional system that produces creatively satisfying results.

OK, but RCM transforms your footage to the output space not the timeline. Using a CST and telling it the input is DWGI, when it’s 709, is likely the issue. Change the CST input to 709 instead of DWGI and the footage will look the same as RCM with a 709 timeline.

Not sure, I am understanding you correctly, but my understanding is that RCM transforms to the output space only after all node operations. So if you want to convert to a color space that is required by a specific creative LUT, you do want to transform away from the timeline/working color space to the LUT input color space and then back from the LUT output color space to the timeline color space. Right?

Not sure, I am understanding you correctly, but my understanding is that RCM transforms to the output space only after all node operations. So if you want to convert to a color space that is required by a specific creative LUT, you do want to transform away from the timeline/working color space to the LUT input color space and then back from the LUT output color space to the timeline color space. Right?

Yes, that is the case. I'm no expert but I'm an advanced noodler. The OP's issue can be sorted by eliminating the Input and Output DRT in Color management and disabling tone mapping in both CSTs.

Good Luck

I'va run into the same question and I obviously did it wrong for many times. This time I wanted to get it totally, once and for all.
I was satisfied with these settings: OOTF off in any case, Tone Mapping on at Input and Output CST. Node before LUT uses Rec709/Cineon as Output, the one after uses Rec709/Rec709 as Input.

Input CST

Input CST.jpg (593.98 KiB) Viewed 3062 times

Output CST

Output CST.jpg (586.92 KiB) Viewed 3062 times

I don't see the benefit of using a wide gamut colour space for the timeline then use a rec709 LUT with a much reduced colour space to create a look. You might as well just use a rec709 timeline colour space.

As you figured out, you will need a CST Sandwich

Darren Mostyn details it all here

youtube.com/watch?v=A2OLQNSIJgU

The new Film Look tool has 'Rochester' look which is clearly an homage to Rochester NY where Kodak is. This tool just works with RCM and DWG, and gives you infinity more flexibility. So it would be my choice over the FPE luts in 2025