URSA Cine 12K - CFExpress B & V/G Battery Mount Restrictions

I'm curious if a representative from Blackmagic Design could clarify the restrictions when shooting with the URSA Cine 12K using the CFExpress Type B Module. Specifically, what are the limitations on resolution and frame rates with this module?

For instance, is the maximum recording capability with the CFExpress module 8K 3:2 Open Gate at 120 FPS? If so, that seems reasonable, but I would appreciate more detailed specifications.

Additionally, while I understand the camera's full potential is achieved with 24V B-Mount batteries, what are the expected performance trade-offs when using 12V V-Mount or Gold Mount batteries? What impact do these lower voltage batteries have on the camera's functionality?

Thank you in advance for your insights!

I imagine there's no resolution or frame rate limitations, you're just limited by the quality you can record them at. A single CFExpress card should be able to handle 8K 3:2 144fps at Q1 or 8:1 or 12K 3:2 80fps at Q3 or 12:1.

No electrical expert here, but I think if the camera is designed internally to run with 24VDC and you supply only 12VDC, the camera will run with the same wattage draw, but the 12VDC battery will need to provide twice the amperes of the 24VDC supply.

Probably, but the camera does include a 250w power supply. It’s possible that it uses 100w+ which is the threshold for many 14.4V-locks. The cam also provides an abundance of acc power. You can’t plug in an accessory have have the cam start dropping frames so maybe there is a 14.4v threshold?

Good Luck

This is why I'm asking for clarification from a BMD Rep on the restrictions from power draw with a battery that only draws so much power.

As for the CFExpress B cards I'm positive that on the NAB Show Floor the Reps said there would be restrictions as well. So I'd love clarification on those restrictions.

Your battery doesn’t store power (watts) but it does store charge (of electrons) to provide current under pressure (voltage). P=V*I

Round numbers just for illustration:
Let’s say the camera (or lightbulb) requires 100 watts of power. For a camera operating with 12 volts, the battery must be able to provide a current of about 8 amps. 100=12*8

If the camera requires 100 watts of power operating at 24 volts, the battery needs to supply a current of about 4 amps.
100=24*4

An ampere is a coulomb per second. That’s 6.24x10 to the eighteenth power per second.

So a 24 volt battery would only need to store half the charge and presumably be more compact for a given wattage.

If a single 12V battery was plugged into the camera that is designed for 24V, the camera’s internal power supply may be using an electronic converter to change the voltage with a small loss in efficiency.

deleted.

When we say watts we’re simplifying (volt’s)(amp hours). My IDX Micro Vs for example are only capable of 97wh or 6.62Ah maximum output. You cant run them at 194wh for 30 minutes, it’s simply too much current.

Edit: I take it back, my last V-Mounts the max amp load was at about an hour, these guys actually max out at 13 amps so you can run them at about 190 watts for 30 minutes.

Good Luck

My Cinegears is 250 Wh, 16.75 Ah, 14.5 volts as I recall.

If media is too large and battery voltage is an issue (as it is for an Owner op) it's maybe because the camera is not designed for us

But I get the appeal eheh !

[Tim Schumann]

The CFexpress module will not be available immediately at launch but we will try to make it available as soon as we can. The data rate of the CFexpress card will be your limit when recording to this type of media... ~ 1000MB/s is probably what you should expect as your limit for sustained recording to a CFexpress card so the data rate calculator on the URSA Cine 12K LF page will be able to let you know where that sits for each format.

The info on power should be available soon.

The CFexpress module will not be available immediately at launch but we will try to make it available as soon as we can. The data rate of the CFexpress card will be your limit when recording to this type of media... ~ 1000MB/s is probably what you should expect as your limit for sustained recording to a CFexpress card so the data rate calculator on the URSA Cine 12K LF page will be able to let you know where that sits for each format.

The info on power should be available soon.

Thank you Tim! The nice thing is that I've seen some sales on B-Mount Batteries lately. So at least that cost is coming down.

24VDC rather than 12VDC is a good thing to offer internally in BMD cameras so glad BMD is going in that direction and with the internal camera feature of efficiently converting voltage for those shooters who are heavily invested in 12 VDC, everyone wins.

The CFexpress module will not be available immediately at launch but we will try to make it available as soon as we can. The data rate of the CFexpress card will be your limit when recording to this type of media... ~ 1000MB/s is probably what you should expect as your limit for sustained recording to a CFexpress card so the data rate calculator on the URSA Cine 12K LF page will be able to let you know where that sits for each format.

The info on power should be available soon.

Tim,

Are there any plans to release a smaller, single-bay media dock alongside the 3-bay one? As an owner-operator who is very interested in this camera, the large 3-bay doc is highly impractical for a lot of the smaller to medium-sized shoots I often do. It's also very impractical to tether the camera body to a computer to offload.

I think that most professionals are going to want to use the highly portable CF-Express cards that can easily be popped out, labeled, and dropped off on the DIT's cart who likely already has all of their preferred hardware to offload said cards in their kit. The second best, in my opinion, would be a portable, single-bay dock for the new BM modules that can be easily thrown in one's camera bag to give to the DIT.

Also, any word on when this camera will be available?

Respectfully,

Joe

Hi Tim,

I'm following up the comment above and wanted to provide some feedback from multiple professionals, including myself and my local equipment rental providers, we believe there is a pressing need for a single-bay media dock for the URSA Cine LF.

After shooting with the URSA Cine LF for a few weeks, I've noticed that productions and rental companies are hesitant to adopt the camera due to concerns about media offloading. Currently, the three-bay media dock is required for efficient transfers, but it is large and requires mains power, which can be impractical for many setups. Without it, we're left using the 10G Ethernet port, which is fast but inconvenient since it requires connecting the camera directly to a computer on set ( we are currently using the OWC Ethernet adpater ).

This has led to issues, including significant heat buildup in the camera, causing it to auto-shut down during file transfers. While I haven’t experienced file corruption, this risk remains a concern for long shooting days, especially when recording in 12K at low compressions. The only soulution so far is to unplug battiers and the 8tb module from the cmaera to let it cool tdown and continue the data tranfers again. Unfortunately, my local Blackmagic support team has not been able to assist or find a solution with the heat-related shutdowns.

We all know, large file sizes also mean extended transfer times, forcing the camera to run for prolonged periods even after shooting and increasing both overheating risks and power consumption - One 160Wh B-mount battery barely lasts an hour. This continuous drain, combined with the potential for automatic shutdowns due to heat, makes extended on-set transfers problematic.

I am sure John Brawley ACS would agree that a portable, USB-C powered single-bay media dock would be invaluable for small to medium productions, allowing for easier offloading and increased flexibility on set. This addition would also help address overheating concerns by avoiding to plug the camera for extended amounts of time and make the URSA Cine LF more accessible for diverse workflows.

We believe a single-bay dock would be a significant enhancement for the camera’s usability and appeal across productions.

Cheers,

Esteban Rivera
Cinematographer

I think you have a lot of support for the importance of having a single-bay to transfer media removed from the camera. However given that it doesn’t exist yet and the less than desirable alternative of transferring files from the camera (with the media loaded in the camera), does it make sense to buy or rent the three-bay media reader now? Yes, it’s a greater expense than a single-bay, but presumably it will get the job done better than the alternatives.

I suspect a single-bay option is a BMD priority, but they may have thought their target user base for the URSA Cine 12K /17K cameras would appreciate the convenience of the three-bay transfer.

our small production house just received our two new 12k cines and we also got the media dock,,,,
the cost per media module (comparatively speaking is cheap) however---this is not a plug and play situation....it took us 5-6 hours to configure the media dock with the NAS editing system....
and to think we'll be transferring and doing media management on a set with the 10g out of a camera is
unrealistic....so it means purchasing a 2nd media dock for our purposes....we also act as a rental house so it'd go with the camera for rentals...but up to the renters to make sure their computer is set to down load their footage.

also--in our first testing...the camera is a beast...and heats up quickly....so concerns in regards to overheating...strong smell of a "burn" in on one camera so may have to send it back.---we'll still do testing before making that decision

shot reply---=please--on set media dock is vital...