Toggle Source and Record side + proper track patching

+1
The ability to patch source tracks exactly to target tracks is an important feature in professional editing - and I don't understand the discussion about it at all. I want to be able to determine exactly which track ends up on which track - regardless of whether the source material is a timeline or a source clip with many audio channels.

++++ 1
Praying Blackmagic give a final knockout blow to AVID and put this feature into resolve 19.
I for one would switch straight over if I were able to edit with toggle source /record timelines.
- J

Still missing in DR 19. Bummer. But yay for the trim editor and numeric keypad TC input!!

++++ 1
Praying Blackmagic give a final knockout blow to AVID and put this feature into resolve 19.
I for one would switch straight over if I were able to edit with toggle source /record timelines.
- J

That's exactly it - for so many professional editors, this is the ONE VITAL THING that is misSing in DR. Resolve comes with so many bells and whistles that are just breathtaking but as long as this basic workflow is not possible.. most won't make the switch.

Blackmagic on the other hand introduced a whole compositing system and a very capable sound editor.

Compared to that implementing Avid's Source/Record with patching is piss easy. And it would, in my eyes, make Resolve the best editing program in the world (before you even consider its grading capabilities).

w0rd!

++++ 1
Praying Blackmagic give a final knockout blow to AVID and put this feature into resolve 19.
I for one would switch straight over if I were able to edit with toggle source /record timelines.
- J

That's exactly it - for so many professional editors, this is the ONE VITAL THING that is misSing in DR. Resolve comes with so many bells and whistles that are just breathtaking but as long as this basic workflow is not possible.. most won't make the switch.

Agree 100%
+1!

I think proper sequence to sequence editing (incl. track patching) and timeline view of the source monitor would be most important.

+1

Maybe a simple compromise it just extending the ability of the "Command Page Up function, in Timeline menu" to include just regular clips in the source monitor as well as compound clips? That would get us most of the way there for me.

Been using AVID MC for a project I'm currently on and I must say... Toggle Source Record is both so simple and so useful that I'm kinda' sad that Resolve hasn't gotten it yet.

Still hoping Resolve Edit gets lots of UI love in the not too distant future. But also getting back to AVID as the jobs are there and, while it too is riddled with issues/bugs, AVID seems much more available to help and even corresponds with its userbase in ways like this:

https://community.avid.com/forums/p/208595/930268.aspx

I miss that feature, too. I was thinking of trying media composer again and just discovered that they still don't have native apple silicon support (will have it later this year, apparently). My hope is that the Resolve edit page will finally get some attention but so far, not so much.

Been using AVID MC for a project I'm currently on and I must say... Toggle Source Record is both so simple and so useful that I'm kinda' sad that Resolve hasn't gotten it yet.

Still hoping Resolve Edit gets lots of UI love in the not too distant future. But also getting back to AVID as the jobs are there and, while it too is riddled with issues/bugs, AVID seems much more available to help and even corresponds with its userbase in ways like this:

https://community.avid.com/forums/p/208595/930268.aspx

Yes, Avid has always been helpful and listens to suggestions.

Track patching in 9.1!! Yay. Now, please also implement toggle source/record, pleeeeez

To repeat -- I'm eager to see someone actually try it -- toggle source/record *has* been added. It's demonstrated briefly in a youtube linked to a few times here.

Haven't installed 19.1, so can't test. Anyone else? And please, if you're not familiar with the way it works in Avid, kindly withhold comment.

I seem to recall in Avid that you can mark in/out a section of the timeline and essentially load this as if it were 'source'. Then you can patch it back into a timeline. You can also switch source viewer to view the contents of the source as if it were a timeline. Resolve sort of has this except that you must create a separate timeline for the source (it doesn't dynamically create it as a patchable source). So if you have a timeline loaded into the source monitor and another timeline in the record monitor (timeline) then you can put in/out marks in source and patch it into the record monitor (timeline).

So far, none of this is new, actually. You could do this part prior to 19.1.

What is new is that Resolve now detects multiple video and/or audio tracks in the source timeline and allows you to selectively patch these to various tracks in the record timeline. For example, you can now patch V2 of the source to V1 of the record and V1 of source to V2 of record, etc. This is great. I would love the ability to select a range of clips on the current timeline and load it into the source temporarily to be able to accomplish this same patching operation to somewhere else on the current timeline.

I don't how many times we have to go over this. The Resolve timeline swap feature, pre-19.1, is not equivalent of what Avid can do. Period.

Again, is there anyone well informed on this question who's tried the new 19.1 timeline/source swap feature?

is there anyone well informed on this question who's tried the new 19.1 timeline/source swap feature?

I found this pretty informative. Does this answer folks questions?

I've seen that video, Jim. In fact I referred to it. That's what provoked this outburst of hopefulness (that this long-standing feature request has been fulfilled) and aggravation (the legions who continue to insist, mistakenly, and despite numerous corrections, that this feature already exists).

Again, is there anyone well informed on this question?

Since you seem to be pretty informed, John, why don't you tell us how Avid works and then we can see where the gap is between Resolve functionality and Avid's?

Edit - Nevermind - I see you've discussed it back in 2019 in this thread. Presumably the part that is missing is the ability to snag portions of a timeline into a clipboard that acts as a multichannel source clip. The closest Resolve has now is that you could copy and paste section of one timeline to another and then load that other timeline into the source viewer. From that point you can (now) set which source tracks to patch to which destination tracks. I'll have to play with 19.1 a bit more in this regard to see if it really works as advertised.

Presumably the part that is missing is the ability to snag portions of a timeline into a clipboard that acts as a multichannel source clip.

With all due respect, there's no need to presume or speculate about that's missing. If you're really interested, read the thread from the beginning, starting with the header "Toggle Source and Record side".

Here's hoping, here's praying, here's imploring the gods that we hear from someone who actually requested this feature, who appreciates its usefulness without convincing, is interested in replicating this particular workflow, not some other workflow, and has been able to experiment with 19.1.

I

The new 19.1 feature is patching
Swap function works the same as previous versions.

Yeah, I think you're right, unfortunately. Somehow or other I hallucinated the Toggle Source/record feature request being implemented with an over-hasty view of the youtube above.

Look like this is a big improvement (source/record patching between sequences in 19.1).

Autopatch would be a nice enhancement too. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gg8mjw ... p=drivesdk

With the proper track patching now available, source / record toggle workflows are a gazillion times better.
Have only had a quick play on my laptop test system but it seems to be working perfectly for me, together with the combo of 'Decompose On Edit' and 'Automatically Create Tracks on Edit' (disabled). I'm very much looking forward to Chritsmas (my annual major update season!)

John, no, its not identical to Avid's functionality, one still has to swap and swap back (versus simply viewing the source in the timeline panel), but theres enough functional equivalence now, where it matters, to make this a win.

Cheers Blackmagic
Andy

If you're really interested, read the thread from the beginning, starting with the header "Toggle Source and Record side".

I decided to do just that and my comments are still relevant. No, Resolve is not exactly like Avid but the changes in 19.1 are 'directionally' relevant. I would still like to be able to view source content in a timeline mode to be able to more precisely orchestrate which portions of the source to insert into the actual timeline (even for just media, not just nested timelines). I think Andy has it right but I've yet to play with this new 19.1 feature - that's a today task.

OK - gave it a try. There are some rough edges but it's a vastly improved editing experience. I can even make a compound clip on one timeline and then use the swap timeline and source viewer to see the compound clip on the timeline. Then I can select an in/out portion, for example, swap timeline and source viewer again and insert the portion of the compound clip back into the timeline (and yes, if the compound has multiple video and audio tracks, you can specify which tracks to place into which destination tracks).

I'm sure there are many bugs in this - one I noticed immediately is that when you swap timeline and source and then back again, the destination patching does not appear until you mouse-click on the source monitor. Just CMD+3 to the source monitor is not enough.

Another bug is that when you switch back to the main timeline, the playhead seems to move back one frame so if it's parked at the end before swap...swap it is move to one frame before the end (to the start of the last frame of the timeline). Something to take note of.

Note that for this to work Edit > Edit Options > Decompose Compound Clips on Edit must be enabled otherwise the compound or nested timeline will be inserted back into the destination timeline and you won't see the individual source tracks, I believe. I also disabled Edit > Edit Options > Automatically Create Tracks on Edit (another new option that is welcome in my workflow).

I can see also using this feature with a temporary timeline used to hold arbitrary pasted selection from one timeline in order to edit it back into the main timeline in some other location and with some subset of tracks.

As I mentioned, definitely a step in the right direction - many thanks to BMD for this one.

Yes! First step, a few more to go. But yay - I am getting my hopes up for 19.2. Swapping Source/Record gets very confusing when working with multiple sequences at the same time. It also won't let you edit from the source sequence to another while viewing the source timeline.

We need to TOGGLE that baby

I posted the following in the other thread beating this issue to death. I hope my description of how Avid works helps others understand why the current swap source timeline functionality is not quite the same:

Avid allows you to look at the source monitor in a timeline view to see all the clips and tracks that are present in the source clip and you can manipulate the contents in that view, modifying the source clip. You can enable/disable clips and tracks within the source timeline and set in/out ranges and then edit it into the record timeline. This is not the same as swap timelines. The source monitor literally has its own separate timeline representation. It makes tweaking the source much easier when the source is actually a complex grouping of clips and tracks. It also lets you zoom in to the source timeline in a way that cannot be done from just the source monitor thus allowing for refined selection of clips and ranges.

So there's that and you need to hold this distinction in mind for the next bit.

In Avid you can select a range of the current record timeline and hit a keyboard shortcut to load that selection into the source monitor as a copy of the clips and tracks that were in the record timeline. You can then switch your source content to its timeline view to modify the specifics of what was loaded into the source side and then edit that content back into record timeline at some other location (optionally between a mark in/out range for either 3-point or 4-point editing). When editing the source into the timeline you can select patching of which source video and audio tracks will be written to which video and audio tracks in the record timeline.

Of course, you can load groups (compounds) and timelines into the source monitor and view those in the source monitor timeline for similar flexibility.

Resolve doesn't really have an equivalent to this. The swap source / timeline feature approaches this functionality but misses some pretty significant features without manual intervention such as using dummy timelines to hold copies of clips, etc. and remembering to switch back to source before editing the content into the intended timeline. I used Avid for many years and got used to having this functionality. I've long since forgotten how useful it was. The new patch tracking feature in Resolve 19.1 is a welcome improvement. I just wish BMD would go the whole way, modelling the behaviour of Media Composer in this regard.

Well done, Steve.

Swap timelines is not useful at all. I wonder why this option even exists. It's just confusing the hell out of everybody who is used to editing in a source/record in/out type of style (which basically all professionals are)

Swap timelines is not useful at all. I wonder why this option even exists. It's just confusing the hell out of everybody who is used to editing in a source/record in/out type of style (which basically all professionals are)

Some people find it useful. It never confused me because I educated myself on how and why it was intended to work that way. No, it does not work the same as Avid but a lot of Resolve is not like other editing/compositing/grading/audio apps. and never will be. Yes the Avid timeline editing in the source viewer is better but I'm not sure it will change any time soon.

Can you explain succinctly the benefit of the current Swap Timeline? How do you use it that makes it worthwhile?

Can you explain succinctly the benefit of the current Swap Timeline? How do you use it that makes it worthwhile?

I'd be interested in that, too. "Because DR is different" is not really a valid argument, imho I love how DR is different in many ways, this is not one of them. And unfortunately, it's a huge MINUS for a lot of pro editors.

Did a ScreenRec of how it currently stands.
(Apologies for how effective the macbook air microphone is at picking up keystrokes.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vuj66S ... LWlcn1vvA5

Nice demo of the intended use, Trevor. Thanks for posting. The key to it working is the subsequence, I think - it’s a copy of a portion of the original timeline so it is independent of the original into which it is edited. I’ll have to try this when next I’m at my edit bay.

The subsequence is unnecessary. The secret is "decompose compound clips on edit". This activates the track selection in the destination timeline. Just load the source timeline into the source viewer and edit into the new destination timeline. If that option is off then the source sequence edits as a single clip into the destination timeline, which can then be decomposed in place if required.

You can also copy and paste between timelines using this method!

Swap timeline & source viewer gives a convenient way to see and mark the source timeline in/out for editing.
User Manual page 851 for those who hate the user manual and don't like reading!

The subsequence is unnecessary.

Even if you can edit a sequence into itself (?!), the subsequence is useful for the reasons listed previously (reusable elements).

Only yesterday I used subsequences to grab lower thirds, interstitials, graphic overlays, mogrts from a previous episode to use in the current. Yes there are other ways but this was easiest. (Mogrts are similar to fusion comps).

Yes I could've just edited from one EP to another but I used the subseqs multiple times. Took them from previous EP, that I didn't cut, to ensure consistency / any updates incorporated.

Oh I see you were referring to The AVID copying from the SAME timeline to the Source monitor. Yeah, Resolve does not have that particular feature, but timeline to timeline patching is what I thought this discussion was about, sorry for the confusion.

I want to plead again for the ability to toggle between source and record sides as well as the ability to do proper track patching.

Good news...

R20 beta now has Avid style toggle timeline and Resolve style patching (right click to choose so not sure it can be keyboard mapped, plus no autopatch).

and even better than Avid if you use stacked timelines as you can now see the source and record timelines at the same time! and as you say the patching seems to work properly now.
Brilliant. Thank BM

Thank you BM for listening. Very well done!

Even though the track patching is still kind of... messy. I think it's easier the way that Premiere and AVID show source and record tracks separately and not on top of each other. The Resolve way can get very confusing in a larger timeline.

But hey - Toggle Source Record is making my life soooo much easier now

^^
Yeah I agree. The patching process leaves a lot of room for improvement.

When I toggle to my source's timeline... I cannot seem to select the tracks I want to patch in.
Say I want V1, V3 and A4 & A2 ONLY.
This means I have to memorise this, toggle back to my programs timeline and patch those in.
In AVID and PPRO, You can select your tracks in source timeline and also plan your patching.


We also seem to be missing a simple patch reset to default option?

^^
Yeah I agree. The patching process leaves a lot of room for improvement.

When I toggle to my source's timeline... I cannot seem to select the tracks I want to patch in.
Say I want V1, V3 and A4 & A2 ONLY.
This means I have to memorise this, toggle back to my programs timeline and patch those in.
In AVID and PPRO, You can select your tracks in source timeline and also plan your patching.


We also seem to be missing a simple patch reset to default option?

Agree on both points.

Plus you can't seem to change patching from a source when in single viewer mode (only A1 shown when right clicking).

Plus, if the source is a clip and has had the attributes modified (e.g. to ST2098 15.1 HT) that is not updated in the source timeline viewer (but patching does update) until Resolve is restarted.

When a clip/timeline is opened in the source viewer, you are able to open the transcript but the search bar isn't working for some reason.

And subtitle tracks don't splice from a source sequence into a record sequence.

For some reason, playback in source viewer mode is very choppy in a lot of cases. Pretty strange behaviour.