6k FF - Recording in lower res without crop

Dear Blackmagicdesign team,

please make is possible to record on your 6K FF camera in 4K or even in 1080 without having the picture cropped. Even when recording in RAW, it would be really helpful not to cut out the pic but just to have a downsampling of the resolution.

Best regards
Jonny

Doesn't it work in ProRes? It's not that much worse than BRAW with its highest setting.

Please make is possible to record on your 6K FF camera in 4K or even in 1080 without having the picture cropped. Even when recording in RAW, it would be really helpful not to cut out the pic but just to have a downsampling of the resolution.

They'd need to implement some kind of rasterized codec, beyond the 1080p H264 proxy files, which would eat up a lot of resources from the FPGA. The only reason they can maintain the field of view on their 12K and 17K bodies while recording lower resolutions is because those sensors aren't a traditional Bayer Pattern Array designs. You're unfortunately making a big ask here, but more power to ya.

Doesn't it work in ProRes?

The FF doesn't record in ProRes.

It's hardware limitations.

Doesn't it work in ProRes? It's not that much worse than BRAW with its highest setting.

Uli, the BMCC6k doesn't support ProRes.

Well, then I suppose Shaheed is right

If you not change camera, the only solution is external recorder in fullhd like an old video assist or a ninja.
Don’t forget that all cinema camera go out only in FHD signal from HDMI.


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It's hardware limitations.

What kind of hardware limitation? Please can you explain in detail the limitations and what would be necessary to being able to record in 1080 without the crop. Any cheaper FF camera can do that.

It's hardware limitations.

What kind of hardware limitation? Please can you explain in detail the limitations and what would be necessary to being able to record in 1080 without the crop. Any cheaper FF camera can do that.

Any cheaper FF camera can do what exactly?

It's hardware limitations.

What kind of hardware limitation? Please can you explain in detail the limitations and what would be necessary to being able to record in 1080 without the crop. Any cheaper FF camera can do that.

Any cheaper FF camera can do what exactly?

It can descale the aspect ratio without cropping the picture. Take a Sony A7MK3 for example. You can record in UHD or in FHD. If you switch from UHD to FHD the video will not be cropped. Whereas on the BM6KFF if you switch from 6K to 4K the video is cropped at factor 1,5

Cinema cameras usually don't do this, as those who use them prefer to have the image to be as unprocessed as possible. It also requires computational power to downscale the image after capturing it, so if the hardware inside isn't designed for it, it can't. You are correct in observing that most consumer cameras have this functionality, but you will not find it commonly on cinema cameras.

It's hardware limitations.

What kind of hardware limitation? Please can you explain in detail the limitations and what would be necessary to being able to record in 1080 without the crop. Any cheaper FF camera can do that.

Cheaper cameras do in the cheap (bad quality) way.
This is a cinema camera build to record at best, it had only raw format for this reason.
If you want lower quality don’t buy this kind of camera, it’s wrong buying.
Downscaling with good quality require powerful processing, writing in compressed mode require a dedicated chip or again processing power.
It’s like to buy a Ferrari to go to supermarket and drive in city only at 30 mph, it’s not build to do that. You ruin it faster.


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… please make is possible to record on your 6K FF camera in 4K or even in 1080 without having the picture cropped…

See post #7 from Carlo. If you add a Video Assist, either 5” or 7”, I believe you can get a full frame field of view recorded in 10bit ProRes 442 HQ (or DNxHR codec if you prefer) in 1080p with the external monitor connected to the BMCC6K using the full resolution FOV of the camera.

I have verified this visually with my UM4.6K set to the maximum recording size with the BMVA12G7 monitor/recorder connected via SDI 12G.

Although your BMCC6K camera does not offer this option, there is a path forward if it’s important to you to retain the full field of view with a lower resolution.

It can descale the aspect ratio without cropping the picture. Take a Sony A7MK3 for example. You can record in UHD or in FHD. If you switch from UHD to FHD the video will not be cropped. Whereas on the BM6KFF if you switch from 6K to 4K the video is cropped at factor 1,5

Once again, BMD would need to implement some kind of rasterized codec, beyond the 1080p H264 proxy files, which would eat up a lot of resources from the FPGA. The only reason they can maintain the field of view on their 12K and 17K bodies while recording raw at lower resolutions is because those sensors aren't traditional Bayer Pattern Array designs. What you're asking for will likely never be implemented on any future BMD camera without one of BMD's bespoke WRGB sensors.

Cinema cameras usually don't do this

Are you sure about that? Very few cinema cameras don't have some kind of lower resolution rasterized fallback. Arri (besides their 65mm sensor bodies), Sony, Red (since DSMC2), etc. all let you record ProRes that is scaled from a user defined area of the sensor.

Are you sure about that? Very few cinema cameras don't have some kind of lower resolution rasterized fallback. Arri (besides their 65mm sensor bodies), Sony, Red (since DSMC2), etc. all let you record ProRes that is scaled from a user defined area of the sensor.

Did you ever compare the battery use?

Did you ever compare the battery use?

That's not really the conversation here, but I'll bite.

It's not a question of power use—there are no shortage of efficient ASICs out there already doing this, and BMD has been working with FPGAs that accomplish the same goal since they released the very first BMCC in 2012. It's a question of priorities in design. BMD are clearly either using resources in their FPGAs for something else or are reserving them for features we'll see in the future. They don't appear to be interested in licensing or implementing rasterized codecs in their cinema cameras from here on out.

[quote="ShaheedMalik"]It's hardware limitations.

What kind of hardware limitation? Please can you explain in detail the limitations and what would be necessary to being able to record in 1080 without the crop. Any cheaper FF camera can do that.

Any cheaper FF camera can do what exactly?

It can descale the aspect ratio without cropping the picture. Take a Sony A7MK3 for example. You can record in UHD or in FHD. If you switch from UHD to FHD the video will not be cropped. Whereas on the BM6KFF if you switch from 6K to 4K the video is cropped at factor 1,5[/quote]Define a7mk3 cheaper camera is funny. It cost more than Blackmagic Design cc6k and cannot do many things which are common on Blackmagic Design cameras.
Anyway it had a dedicated chip to compress decompress h264/5 and cannot record in Di or in raw codec.
Blackmagic Design cc 6k can record in braw only which is not scalable without crop.
Previous cameras like my pocket6k can render full field in 1080 ProRes but recently seems Blackmagic Design not want to add ProRes on their newer cameras.
They could add something like old Cineform that require low processing resource, and it’s native to read on Adobe, resolve and many other software due the fact it’s open source, but many people not like it and refuse tu use it.


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Get one of the cameras with ProRes while supplies last.

It can descale the aspect ratio without cropping the picture. Take a Sony A7MK3 for example. You can record in UHD or in FHD. If you switch from UHD to FHD the video will not be cropped. Whereas on the BM6KFF if you switch from 6K to 4K the video is cropped at factor 1,5

The A7MK3 can do that but not while shooting RAW. You can only do that with RAW if the sensor has a way of binning or downscaling. Blackmagic could do one of the following

a. offer a mode to combine bayer quads into one pixel but it would only use about 25% less data while recording 75% fewer pixels.

b. bin four bayer quads into one in-camera but off-sensor which would use 75% less data and record 75% fewer pixels however it would be lower quality than the previous method. It should be cleaner than cropping though.

Both methods would limit you to the same frame rates as if you just shot at 4x the resolution though. Also if you wanted to shoot 1080p/2K, it would still require cropping a 4K area of the sensor out and then downscaling.

Once again, BMD would need to implement some kind of rasterized codec, beyond the 1080p H264 proxy files

Rasterization is the process are converting vectors into pixels. All video codecs work on pixel data and in cameras, there is no vector data to speak of.

Once again, BMD would need to implement some kind of rasterized codec, beyond the 1080p H264 proxy files

Rasterization is the process are converting vectors into pixels. All video codecs work on pixel data and in cameras, there is no vector data to speak of.

Kinda missing the forest for the trees but sure; feel free to substitute processed/debayered/non-raw/whatever in to that slot. Sound good?