Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF

"I filmed scenics in the Sonoran Desert with the Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF.
Filmed @ 12K 18:1 Resolution. 23.98 frame rate. Filmed with the Laowa 12mm, Canon 16-35L, & Canon 70-200L. All shots were filmed at 800 ISO.
Edited and color graded by me with minor adjustments. Minor sharpening and noise reduction was added in post." (Stealth Films, USA)

After the first split screen or two, I get how it transformed from braw. Thereafter showing the braw just wastes screen space.

"I filmed scenics in the Sonoran Desert with the Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF.
Filmed @ 12K 18:1 Resolution. 23.98 frame rate. Filmed with the Laowa 12mm, Canon 16-35L, & Canon 70-200L. All shots were filmed at 800 ISO.
Edited and color graded by me with minor adjustments. Minor sharpening and noise reduction was added in post." (Stealth Films, USA)

Liked this very much!

"A short overview of the Blackmagic Media Dock for Blackmagic URSA Cine 8TB Media Module during the NAB Show NYC 2024." (Walter van Dusen)

Still completely astounded that there wasn't a single-unit reader with a Thunderbolt port on it available at launch.

Still completely astounded that there wasn't a single-unit reader with a Thunderbolt port on it available at launch.

Agreed. I do like a media solution with a dock that can be packed in a bag with a laptop. I like a camera that you can drop footage easily while in the field.

However, if you are in the field you could pack 3 extra media modules and swap them out to dump when you get back to the home-base office. And, with the 16 TB that means you could travel with 64 TB theoretically.


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Still completely astounded that there wasn't a single-unit reader with a Thunderbolt port on it available at launch.

Agreed. I do like a media solution with a dock that can be packed in a bag with a laptop. I like a camera that you can drop footage easily while in the field.

However, if you are in the field you could pack 3 extra media modules and swap them out to dump when you get back to the home-base office. And, with the 16 TB that means you could travel with 64 TB theoretically.


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Did the calculation for full quality on the 12K and 64 TB would get you a decent amount of footage. So even if hiking out a distance you’ll be more want for power over media space. So I guess I have this proven you could go out with only two 8 TB Media Modules and still have 3.5 hours of footage you could capture in the highest quality.


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At approximately shooting one 8TB module every hour and 45 minutes, it looks like the promised 16TB modules will be a popular addition to the Cine 12K kit.

I saw someone post on Threads about a $50,000 RED camera (DSMC2) recently went for $1500 on eBay or something like that. Troves of people commented how that happens and why, but also some mentioned about how they don't recommend buying a camera for an investment (unless it's an ARRI).

I think at the beginning, I thought of the Ursa Cine as an investment. But now that I have weighed the work I see myself doing in 2025 and 2026 as fairly consistent with what I'm doing now, I don't NEED a new fancy camera.

There's many different types of people that the Ursa Cine is for and the people I know that are going to get one seem like they are planning on using it for a VERY long time.

Understand, Adam. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

The Cine 12K/17K LF and Immersive cameras open up many new opportunities for some folks.

The higher dynamic range may help it shine in situations where other cameras don’t quite measure up to it.

The faster readout and higher frame rates may make new opportunities or create new approaches in various jobs.

The embrace of full frame FOV can help with the cinematic look that can enhance your video recordings.

I see that camera as offering improvements to the quality of what a shooter is currently doing, but that doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

I think taking advantage of capturing full frame video will be apparent to those who are shooting with prime lenses.

I mostly shoot with zoom cine lenses and quality full frame zoom is just a step to far for me so I’m looking at more Super35 zooms and think I’ll settle on the Tokina Cinema ATX 25-75mm to pair with the Tokina 11-20mm (their 50-135mm is full frame but my current work doesn’t need to go that long at this time). Even my much preferred DZO film Tango 18-90mm, which is ideal for my work, is just another step too far. If the finances are there, I expect to move up to the Pyxis Pro late 2025 or 2026. I really believe that will enhance my work.

Agreed Rick. I’d love to get the UCine but no clients I have are demanding an upgrade. If I was to get a new camera it would probably fit to do a PYXIS. But, that still had the lack of internal ND issue for me. I’d kind of love using a PYXIS in a teleprompter more than the P6KPro, but the internal ND is very convenient when in a teleprompter. Yet, the UCine makes no sense in a teleprompter.

The fact is that the UCine hits practically all my demands for a new camera. And, those are my desires and wishes for a machine that functions the way I want it to. It gives me something to aspire to own. My hope is that by next year I could be able to make the upgrade.

But I still need to find a new apartment as now my furniture is in storage and I’m living with my mom after the hurricanes ruined my place. So that takes priority. We decided best to wait till after holidays before attempting to find new place. Then once I’ve settled I can start saving for the new camera.

Yet, the need is there for PYXIS type camera for the corporate videos and other content that doesn’t require a UCine. I hope Blackmagic repurposes the Broadcast G2 into a PYXIS Pro, but still would like to see a PYXIS Pro in that PYXIS body with internal ND. So then the Broadcast G3 could be a larger same sensor camera that is L Mount and matches the PYXIS.


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... But, that still had the lack of internal ND issue for me...

The NISI SWIFFT system filters are very nice in that they are just pressed on/ pulled off with a compression fit. They work great and are fast to change. (As fast as putting on a slide on lens cap.) I got them 95mm round to fit the Zeiss and use 86-95 rings in the Arles. The stepup and SWITF rings stay on each lens. NISI also makes lens caps for the SWIFT fit. They have a set of true color NDs which cut the IR as well and work great.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I only have a few IRND filters for 86mm (lots for 82mm) so I’ll keep this option in mind.

... But, that still had the lack of internal ND issue for me...

The NISI SWIFFT system filters are very nice in that they are just pressed on/ pulled off with a compression fit. They work great and are fast to change. (As fast as putting on a slide on lens cap.) I got them 95mm round to fit the Zeiss and use 86-95 rings in the Arles. The stepup and SWITF rings stay on each lens. NISI also makes lens caps for the SWIFT fit. They have a set of true color NDs which cut the IR as well and work great.

I'll definitely look into this. On the short film two weeks ago we used the Tilta Mirage on my P6KPro and the B-Cam Op opted to use the filters for that over the internal ND. Mainly he "forgot" that the P6KPro had internal. I didn't keep a close eye on him so just thought he was using the external ND in combination with the internal, which is something I've done with the URSA before.

NiSi makes good filters. I like their brand a lot. So will definitely look into this suggestion. Thank you!

"I filmed scenics in the Sonoran Desert with the Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF.
Filmed @ 12K 18:1 Resolution. 23.98 frame rate. Filmed with the Laowa 12mm, Canon 16-35L, & Canon 70-200L. All shots were filmed at 800 ISO.
Edited and color graded by me with minor adjustments. Minor sharpening and noise reduction was added in post." (Stealth Films, USA)

Liked that very much. Watched it on a calibrated EIZO UH monitor with Youtube set to 8k.
The camera with those lenses is insanely sharp. Almost cut my eyes by watching those needles

Frank Chan on YouTube posted some shots using the BMUC 12K on his channel yesterday. Beautiful images.

Chris

“We've had the camera around a month and have had time to get it out on a few shoots. Here are my rambling thoughts from an Ursa Cine LF owner and user; what I like, what I don't like and a good ol' chat about using it.” (Maty Young, Young One Studio, Hollywood, California)

24:28 : “I don’t think there is any camera at the moment, besides, maybe, the brand new Alexa 265… I would say it: I think this is the best image in the world for a cinema camera at the moment, the images are so detailed (not necessarily sharp but detailed), tactile, the textures…”

More footage.

Like this one.

Some more slow mo.

Some shorts:

has there been any examples or users comment on rigging the Ursa Cine 12k?
I absolutely love the real estate on the side of the Ursa Mini Pro bodies, and with a fragile screen on the side of the Cine, what will become of rigging options?

If BMD can come up with transmitting a feed via their wireless built-in, I think that is a great solution to wireless rigging. It seems like a waste of bulk if all the wireless does is connect to the internet for proxies or live stream???

I know there's more Cine 12k's out there now, so I'm curious how people are using them for bigger productions.

has there been any examples or users comment on rigging the Ursa Cine 12k?
I absolutely love the real estate on the side of the Ursa Mini Pro bodies, and with a fragile screen on the side of the Cine, what will become of rigging options?

If BMD can come up with transmitting a feed via their wireless built-in, I think that is a great solution to wireless rigging. It seems like a waste of bulk if all the wireless does is connect to the internet for proxies or live stream???

I know there's more Cine 12k's out there now, so I'm curious how people are using them for bigger productions.

Agreed! I still want Blackmagic to come out with their own Wireless Video Assist Monitor that connects to the URSA Cine wireless for a video feed. One top, I'd love for Blackmagic to work with a wireless lens control manufacturer for the lens motor system to work with the BMD Wireless Video Assist so that you can adjust camera settings from it while also controlling the lens motors via the built-in Lemo ports at the front. This could kill two birds with one stone.

The one thing I also always attach to the side of the UMP (since I did the SmallRig side plate) is my Deity TC-1 box that I keep connected to the camera. I'm sure I could just do some velcro and attach the box to the body elsewhere for the UC12K, but still really like being able to have mounting points on that righthand side.

Tech specs for URSA Cine 17K released:

Full Tech Specs finally released: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-URSA-64

Downloadable PDF: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/api/pr ... hspecs.pdf

Sadly, no internal ND. But still very impressive features. You can even shoot full 65mm sensor in lower resolutions.

And, on the URSA Cine page you can now calculate the data as well. Pretty hefty file sizes.

Let’s keep the discussion of the Cine 17K specific items on the thread started by Louis.

"I filmed scenics in the Sonoran Desert with the Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF.
Filmed @ 12K 18:1 Resolution. 23.98 frame rate. Filmed with the Laowa 12mm, Canon 16-35L, & Canon 70-200L. All shots were filmed at 800 ISO.
Edited and color graded by me with minor adjustments. Minor sharpening and noise reduction was added in post." (Stealth Films, USA)

Liked that very much. Watched it on a calibrated EIZO UH monitor with Youtube set to 8k.
The camera with those lenses is insanely sharp. Almost cut my eyes by watching those needles

Haha I filmed this video and even I haven't been able to watch it in that quality! Really exciting to hear that someone's viewed it like this, and glad to hear how it looked.

OOOO!!!

I know they even say they “would love to see a professional colorist expand upon the color depth of this camera”… in my very humble opinion, it is some of the most blandish footage I’ve seen of this camera. I mean that in all gentleness, but it doesn’t look very appealing, from what they’ve shared in their video.

Several things that stood out to me:
1. There’s still a color shift going from 12k to 8k/4k (similar to the UMP12k)
2. There’s a noticeable color shift when using the NDs, with 4 stops looking the best (though, this may be common among all cameras, IDK)
3. It feels similar to the UMP12k With shadow noise and underexposed tests

Agree that you don’t want to underexpose more than a couple of stops to raise in post. Overexpose latitude to recover in post is better.

I think BMD has been showing us examples that are only gently altered in post so we get a good idea of the starting point for grading. So I agree the examples could look better, but should it? A colourist knows how to give it the magic touches.

By the way that Benz flange focal distance controller is nice, if you’re a rental house or manufacturer:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ti_pl.html

The Cine 12K/17K are so feature rich overall. Easy to salivate about them. But I can’t expect to aspire to owning them. So I need to appreciate what the Pyxis does today or Pyxis Pro will do when it’s offered.

Sorry, I posted without watching. Finally watched the full hour long review.

Adam, agreed about the color shift. And, yeah some of the footage was bland. But I watched the video more for the general review. Especially since it was so in depth at an hour length.

A professional colorist can make any camera look good. I think the key with this camera is that it has a very strong starting point. A professional colorist will manipulate it how they need to tell the story.

But I'm also glad they reiterated the desire for a Single Media Module Dock for DIT.

The one thing that does interest me is whether Blackmagic could configure the Wireless to be Wireless Video to a Wireless Video Assist. It seems possible, and I dig that they have a Low Latency toggle. Wonder if that would be good enough for focus pulling or if that would primarily be for video village and producers/directors.

The one thing that does interest me is whether Blackmagic could configure the Wireless to be Wireless Video to a Wireless Video Assist.

This is the one feature in a camera I'm waiting for in vain since years - integrated (low/no latency) wireless video.

I'm not sure if it's a design issue (take up too much space), if manufacturers just don't consider it due to available 3rd party gear and/or cost of R&D or whatever the reason is, I just wish they will do it one day.

The one thing that does interest me is whether Blackmagic could configure the Wireless to be Wireless Video to a Wireless Video Assist.

This is the one feature in a camera I'm waiting for in vain since years - integrated (low/no latency) wireless video.

I'm not sure if it's a design issue (take up too much space), if manufacturers just don't consider it due to available 3rd party gear and/or cost of R&D or whatever the reason is, I just wish they will do it one day.

For low/no latency the only option is uncompressed video. The main issue is patents from the Vitec Group (now Videndum) who had acquired wireless chipset supplier Amimon, Paralinx and Teradek.
Amimon is the largest manufacturer of wireless video transmission chips, and only their chips are certified by the FCC to be used legally in the US. Basically they have a monopoly in that field.

They also own Sachtler, Vinten, Manfrotto, O'connor, Gitzo, Joby, Wooden Camera, Syrp (brand got killed off last year), Anton/Bauer, SmallHD, Rycote, Offhollywood, Audix, Quasar Science, Petrol, Kata, Lowepro, Avenger, Lastolite, Lightstream, National Geographic, Colorama, and more brands they have put to grave.

The one thing that does interest me is whether Blackmagic could configure the Wireless to be Wireless Video to a Wireless Video Assist.

This is the one feature in a camera I'm waiting for in vain since years - integrated (low/no latency) wireless video.

I'm not sure if it's a design issue (take up too much space), if manufacturers just don't consider it due to available 3rd party gear and/or cost of R&D or whatever the reason is, I just wish they will do it one day.

For low/no latency the only option is uncompressed video. The main issue is patents from the Vitec Group (now Videndum) who had acquired wireless chipset supplier Amimon, Paralinx and Teradek.
Amimon is the largest manufacturer of wireless video transmission chips, and only their chips are certified by the FCC to be used legally in the US. Basically they have a monopoly in that field.

They also own Sachtler, Vinten, Manfrotto, O'connor, Gitzo, Joby, Wooden Camera, Syrp (brand got killed off last year), Anton/Bauer, SmallHD, Rycote, Offhollywood, Audix, Quasar Science, Petrol, Kata, Lowepro, Avenger, Lastolite, Lightstream, National Geographic, Colorama, and more brands they have put to grave.

Who is


I’ve never heard of Videndum. just the Vitecgroup. What a great stable of thoroughbreds. And they aren’t snobbish with some relatively small companies too.

, and more brands they have put to grave.

Agree. They are not a good company. They seem to buy up good companies after they've had some initial success and drive them into the ground....

JB

I'm not sure if it's a design issue (take up too much space), if manufacturers just don't consider it due to available 3rd party gear and/or cost of R&D or whatever the reason is, I just wish they will do it one day.

Wireless video like that is hard to do. There's the one main company that seems to do all the chips. They even have the same font when you look at the menus no matter the brand.

BUT... we are seeing WiFi and hotspot / network functionality on top of live streaming being built into cameras...I'm hopeful it will be added. Latency might still be an issue though but for directors monitoring....

JB

Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF + Blazar Remus Anamorphic Lenses (50, 85, 125mm) (Pierre C., USA)

"Shot at ISO 800 with the exception of one or two clips. All handheld."

I'm not sure if it's a design issue (take up too much space), if manufacturers just don't consider it due to available 3rd party gear and/or cost of R&D or whatever the reason is, I just wish they will do it one day.

Wireless video like that is hard to do. There's the one main company that seems to do all the chips. They even have the same font when you look at the menus no matter the brand.

BUT... we are seeing WiFi and hotspot / network functionality on top of live streaming being built into cameras...I'm hopeful it will be added. Latency might still be an issue though but for directors monitoring....

JB

I'd take this for Director's Monitoring. I get it about the latency issues for focus pulling. That's where we're stuck with going to Teradek as they are the sole company doing zero latency well. Clearly a patent is stifling competition.

I'm curious if the new Teradek CTRL.5 Camera Control will work with the new URSA Cine models?

In belgium vaxis is seen as a more favorable alternative to teradek, and is more expensive to rent as well

Can anyone tell their experiences with and or whether iso 3200 is usable on this camera?

Edith, did you watch the long CineD video reviewing the dynamic range and latitude of various cameras in 2024? The Cine12K was discussed at 1:15 as the last camera. CineD may also have posted a separate review just about the Cine 12K. CVP has also posted a couple of detailed reviews of the Cine 12K with some nice footage.

There are a few others here in the forum who own the Cine 12K and can better comment on the performance of ISO 3200 than I.

Keep in mind that one option may be shooting at a lower ISO and raising the exposure in post. I do that with my original URSA Mini 4.6K shooting at ISO 800 to match my BMPCC4K at ISO 1600. But I also apply noise reduction for my final deliverables.

Do you apply noise reduction on the other cameras you regularly use? Or do you rely on their in-camera noise reduction with ISO 3200?

Edith, did you watch the long CineD video reviewing the dynamic range and latitude of various cameras in 2024? The Cine12K was discussed at 1:15 as the last camera. CineD may also have posted a separate review just about the Cine 12K. CVP has also posted a couple of detailed reviews of the Cine 12K with some nice footage.

There are a few others here in the forum who own the Cine 12K and can better comment on the performance of ISO 3200 than I.

Keep in mind that one option may be shooting at a lower ISO and raising the exposure in post. I do that with my original URSA Mini 4.6K shooting at ISO 800 to match my BMPCC4K at ISO 1600. But I also apply noise reduction for my final deliverables.

Do you apply noise reduction on the other cameras you regularly use? Or do you rely on their in-camera noise reduction with ISO 3200?

The reason I'm asking here for anyone directly is that I don't have a good viewing device to make that judgement

Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K: 16 Bit 12K RAW, 224 fps, Skintones, LOG/LUT ... (slashcam, Germany)

The images coming from this sensor/codec/color-science have a 3D quality to them (well, with proper lenses and proper lightning). It's like you feel you can get your hands inside the scene.

Alright I've been hearing conflicting things on the noise pattern of this camera, some saying it's filmic and others saying it's digital and I can't say who's right as I don't have a good monitoring device at the moment, can anyone here say whether they feel it's filmic or digital looking by their measure?

Edith I don’t understand.

You would rather trust the opinions of those on a forum than your own eyes looking even at less ideal monitoring?

You really don’t have a decent monitor? You don’t have a friend that has a decent monitor? You don’t have a post facility partner that can help you?

Where are you located?

JB

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-ursa-c ... -approved/

Netflix approved.

Edith I don’t understand.

You would rather trust the opinions of those on a forum than your own eyes looking even at less ideal monitoring?

You really don’t have a decent monitor? You don’t have a friend that has a decent monitor? You don’t have a post facility partner that can help you?

Where are you located?

JB

It's not that I'm entirely deferring judgement onto others, I can say for myself I love the image even viewing on highly compressed mediums, but to me, cinema cameras and how good they are go far beyond what looks looks pretty on its face and is imo, more about how much usable data are you getting out of it and how noise is rendered is to me is a big factor in it. It's more about getting a second, more seasoned opinion more or less.

I'm sure many people on this forum already know this, but I think this is the best explanation I've seen of new sensor that blackmagic created in the Ursa 12k. I found it very interesting.

Dan, that was a treat to watch.

One of the surprises was that the video implied Cine 12K LF at ISO 3200 produced usable footage and was practical if you add some noise reduction in post and possibly add some film grain effect. That’s quite an accomplishment for a sensor that doesn’t support Dual ISO like the Pyxis and the Pocket cameras. Even with the BMPCC4K, I only shoot ISO 1600 at most and always add post noise reduction. I wonder if others using the Cine 12K LF would agree that ISO 3200 can be useful if it’s necessary to do that.

The point about the camera, that includes 8TB media, costs as much as just the added cost for media on a competitors camera surely must appeal to a segment of the potential user base for whom “a penny saved is a penny earned.”