Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

TobyEggitt

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:33 pm
  • Real Name: Toby Eggitt

Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostSat Feb 15, 2025 8:16 pm

Hi all, I think this is not possible, but would love to hear otherwise. Can I, with an ATEM Mini Pro ISO:

Take one video as my "base" video
Take another and do Pictire-in-Picture with it
Take a third, apply chromakey to it, and render that over the top of the above?

If I can, can anyone point me at a reference that might help me understand it? My current belief is that I can only have a single channel that's manipulated and mixed with the base layer (i.e. a single pip/DVE, OR a single chromakey overlay).
Offline
User avatar

Roman Pytkin Pekarek

  • Posts: 2672
  • Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:11 pm
  • Location: SVK

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostSat Feb 15, 2025 10:38 pm

Im testing it right now with ATEM MINI PRO, but it looks the same as ISO model ..
It have only one key .. So u can use DVE as PIP .. Or Luma/CHroma key .. Not simultaneously ..
But if third source is prerenderd video or graphics , u can use any player or CG system with FILL/KEY input (but need 2 inputs free) and use it in DSK (downstream key) ..

Screenshot 2025-02-15 at 23.32.07.png
Screenshot 2025-02-15 at 23.32.07.png (886.96 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
http://audioatem.com
http://tally.pytkin.sk
http://www.stonepp.tv
http://www.media-planet.sk
Offline

stephen_neal

  • Posts: 165
  • Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:46 am

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostSun Feb 16, 2025 12:37 pm

Yes - the PIP (aka the DVE) and Chroma key both use the upstream keyer (so are either/or), there is still an additional downstream keyer as well as the A/B background video.
Offline

TobyEggitt

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:33 pm
  • Real Name: Toby Eggitt

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostSun Feb 16, 2025 10:58 pm

Roman, Stephen, thank you both for replying. Clearly there's something about which I'm entirely lacking background, and I'm not quite clear enough on what you're saying to know where to start looking.

I think you're saying that I might be able to use the "downstream keyer". I should probably be a bit more specific about my goal, and see if--after looking at the manual a bit--I'm looking at an approach that makes sense (please guide if I'm horribly wrong!)

Much of what follows I already described, but I'm clarifying one part in view of what I read in the manual and the comments made here.

Background, a simple video input (from a microscope camera).
PIP (DVE) via the upstream keyer, a human head overlaid on a corner of the background (so far, I know how to do this)
Then the third part is effectively a mouse pointer type effect. I think I can make this using the downstream keyer, possibly in luma mode (although I'd prefer that the pointer was black, but perhaps bright red would work quite well for contrast), or possibly in linear with a solid black fill (can I provide that from a solid color in the ATEM?) and then a white mouse cursor on a plain black background, as the linear key signal.

It seems that the luma key mode would be the least effort, but it would prohibit a black pointer effect. I'm not sure I'm too worried about that, actually.

Am I on the right track? I shall go and play and perhaps if I missed the point completely, someone will warn me that I'm wasting my time :)

Much appreciate the pointers,
Toby
Offline

TobyEggitt

  • Posts: 64
  • Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:33 pm
  • Real Name: Toby Eggitt

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostMon Feb 17, 2025 12:02 am

And success! Thank you again for your pointers. I was a bit confused by the manual, but it seems like the downstream key works in linear mode (though there's something in the menu about pre-multiplied which seemed to affect it.) Anyway, I selected a fixed color for the fill, a video input for the key, set the computer generating that video to a black background with a larger than normal white mouse, and hit the "On Air" button in the DSK group. So easy when someone nudges you in the right direction. Thanks again.
Offline

stephen_neal

  • Posts: 165
  • Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:46 am

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostMon Feb 17, 2025 12:22 pm

TobyEggitt wrote:And success! Thank you again for your pointers. I was a bit confused by the manual, but it seems like the downstream key works in linear mode (though there's something in the menu about pre-multiplied which seemed to affect it.) Anyway, I selected a fixed color for the fill, a video input for the key, set the computer generating that video to a black background with a larger than normal white mouse, and hit the "On Air" button in the DSK group. So easy when someone nudges you in the right direction. Thanks again.


I'd suggest you read up a bit on keying.

Keys have both a key and a fill signal - the key cuts the hole in the background video (*) and the fill source fills that hole (*). You can self-key (where the luminance or chrominance of the source video both cuts the whole in the background AND provides the video to fill the hole), but you can also replace the video fill with either a colour matte (as you are) or a different input source (a 'split key' rather than a 'self key').

With a split-key you can use linear keying where black will be 100% background, and white will be 100% foreground, and mid-grey will be a mix of 50% background and 50% foreground. Alternatively you can do a hard clip where you just switch hard between foreground and background (this level of softness is controlled by the gain of the keyer, the level at which the switch happens is controlled by the clip)

(*) With linear keying you have two choices for how the key signal processes the foreground that is filling the hole the key signal has made in the background.

If you use the key signal to also process the foreground (i.e. to cut the foreground out in the reverse to the way the background has been cut out) then this is called un-shaped, multiplicative, or linear keying. This is what you do with a matte fill or if you are filling with another camera etc.

However it is sometimes possible that the foreground has already been processed so that it can just be added to the background with the hole cut out in the background only by the key signal, and the key will do nothing to the foreground, which is just added to the background with the hole cut in it. This is called pre-matted, shaped, additive, or clean keying.

If you get the key setting wrong you'll often see graphics burn through black as they fade themselves in and out, or they will appear to have black edges that aren't expected (both the result of pre-matted or shaped keys being treated as if they are not pre-matted or are unshaped).

Or you'll see graphics overlaid parts of the picture you're not expecting etc. when the foreground is being treated as pre-matted, additive or shaped, when it isn't. (Colour matte fills will never be shaped for example)
Offline
User avatar

Roman Pytkin Pekarek

  • Posts: 2672
  • Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:11 pm
  • Location: SVK

Re: Composite of three inputs, on ATEM Mini Pro ISO?

PostMon Feb 17, 2025 10:58 pm

TobyEggitt wrote:Anyway, I selected a fixed color for the fill, a video input for the key, set the computer generating that video to a black background with a larger than normal white mouse, and hit the "On Air" button in the DSK group. So easy when someone nudges you in the right direction. Thanks again.

you doing it little bit upside down :) But if it works for you, than its OK :)

Glad to help you :)
http://audioatem.com
http://tally.pytkin.sk
http://www.stonepp.tv
http://www.media-planet.sk

Return to Live Production

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests