Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF

Its a bit weird but there's a tiny shift in color between 12K and 8K? Assuming its the same lens.

Wow... that is some deal for those that don't need all the accessories. $6,995 for a stripped down 12K LF.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/ ... 0250130-01

Thanks, Dan. The press release does answer a lot of questions about the Body about the items that are not included but are available options:
no handle, no shoulder mount, no power supply, no 8TB module, etc.

The press release for the Body does list high frame rates such as 80 fps for 12K recording.

Still will be better understood as the webpage Specs, camera descriptions, and compatible CFExpress cards are updated to remove any confusion between the Cine 12K LF and the Body.

One of BMD’s criticisms over the years has been the camera reliability, some cameras break early in their lives while they can last for many years for others. Having this Body only option is good for those who might order a ‘backup’ camera in case of problems during a shoot: for less than half the price of the Cine 12K LF, just substitute the fresh Body if a failure occurs.

On a critical shoot this may make perfect sense and keep your shooting schedule on track that day which likely more than pays for the cost of the Body. That may be appealing for many on a budget. I can see this as a new business model for BMD that could take the same approach for the Cine 17K LF and the Cine Immersive cameras. Brilliant.

It would be a no brainer, instant buy for me if I could reuse the following accessories from my current Ursa Mini Pro 12K,

- Shoulder Kit
- Top handle
- Ursa Viewfinder

And I could somehow power it..

It would be a no brainer, instant buy for me if I could reuse the following accessories from my current Ursa Mini Pro 12K,

- Shoulder Kit
- Top handle
- Ursa Viewfinder

And I could somehow power it..

You technically can use the Shoulder Mount Kit and Top Handle, but not the Viewfinder. Still, if you plan on using the new UCine EVF then I'd say you should get the new UCine Top Handle.

Batteries are the challenge as you get very limited by 14V Batteries. Apparently 60 FPS max frame rate according to BMD Sources.

The Cine top handle will also allow you to use the Pyxis Monitor Kit or EVF Kit if you prefer.

The Ursa Cine top handle/15mm rails is actually one of the nicest accessories I’ve ever used. On top of my Pyxis I can quick release the entire rod setup that houses my DJI Lidar, focus gear, Arri rosette hand grips, and monitor. When switching lenses it’s also super easy to just lift up the focus motor.

https://imgur.com/a/ul5LHRL

Aaron, would you be willing to kindly post a photo of your rig showing how you use the Cine Top Handle?

Yep, just uploaded 3 photos in the previous post.

Thanks, Aaron. That’s a great rig given how easy it is to remove as you mentioned.

Full review slashcam.

Is there any limitations regarding frame rates with the CFExpress cards?


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

The slashcam review includes an image noise comparison with the Alexa 35, Alexa Mini LF, and Canon C70. The Alexa 35 is the winner by a country mile. But when you compare image sharpness, this time the Cine 12K recording 8K is an easy winner.

Is there any limitations regarding frame rates with the CFExpress cards?


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

John, you can use BMD’s web calculator that will show you the typical data rates for various recording options. Pick the recording option you most want to use at the normal/high frame rate you select and see what CFExpress cards look like they can manage to record with it. If none can cope with your frame rate and resolution and recording codec, alter those parameters to see any limitations. That’s just guidance until:

BMD will be publishing the approved CFExpress cards for a given frame rate and resolution and codec in due time.

Edit
See the URSA Cine 12K LF Body thread for post #4 a few seconds before my post!

Like probably a lot of people right now, I am considering upgrading to the camera. For clarification, I have owned a 6K Pro since 2021 but only used it for smaller projects and rented Alexa Minis/35 for larger projects. I need internal NDs why the Pyxis etc are a non-starter for me. I have a few questions to existing owners that I was not able to gather from material online:

Recording Modes
Does the 12K LF offer any other recording modes aside from 12, 9, 8 and 4k? Specifically is there a S16 Mode or a further scaled down of the S35 9K available?

High ISO Noise
Having looked at the CineD tests, I was left wondering how noise patterns compare to the 6K sensor, especially for higher ISO. Is the lack of dual gain made up by the oversampling of a large sensor? I shot 6K sensor a lot at 1250 with the higher gain and was always very pleased with that image right out of the camera, no noise reduction applied.

Constant Quality Compression
I have been super happy with Blackmagic's Q3 and Q5 compression for documentary work and was wondering how the compression compares with this very different sensor architecture and much higher data rates? From the online calculator it seems that CFexpress should cover most framerates with Q3 compression.

Fold Out Monitor
Does it compare to the 6K Pro monitor? Even better? What are your thoughts?

Accessories
Most of the accessories seem to be available to purchase separately but I have yet to find the sunshade anywhere, even though its listed as an optional accessories. For documentary setups would be great to use the internal monitor outside as well.

Also the Blackmagic website is unclear whether this body supports the LPL mount. I guess it physically should, since it's the same body, but the product description states:

URSA Cine lockable EF mount. Interchangeable with optional URSA Cine PL mount.

So just wanted to double check for confirmation here.

Batteries
Last but not least - what are you favorite, affordable batteries? Ideally a mix of 155Wh and 99Wh for airplane restrictions.

Thank you everyone in advance!

I have the Smallrig sunshade (discontinued) for my P6K. It helps but it is no substitute for the OLED viewfinder on my UMP12K. For run 'n gun I don't care at all for monitors as pictured above.

Just for reference, A used Arri Amira weights about the same as the Ursa Cine 12k and costs about the same, but can come with an EVF. I'm not saying this is the route to go, but since a slew of higher-end cameras have been announced, there's been a big uptick in used markets for REALLY nice cameras.

I'm still of the mind that when I choose a camera, I'm gonna run it into the ground. Which makes the price drop of the UC12k so tempting. I JUST bought a Pyxis to match with my 6kFF, but now.... ugh.

My predicament is that I need to have a two-camera package that's mobile and matching: Pyxis + 6kFF.
I also need a truly built-up Cinema Rig, which was going to be the Pyxis, but it always has to be separated from my mobile Gear.

Man, I'm really talking myself into this, haha.

… My predicament is that I need to have a two-camera package that's mobile and matching: Pyxis + 6kFF.
I also need a truly built-up Cinema Rig, which was going to be the Pyxis, but it always has to be separated from my mobile Gear...

Unless your clients are demanding you shoot with any old ARRI as long as it’s an ARRI, it looks like the Cine 12K is a fierce competitor except in very low light.

If you need a two camera mobile package, you’re good to go now.

If you need a full camera rig where mobility is not required, there’s a Body waiting for you and your tripod. It’s going to be there tomorrow and the day after, so you don’t have to feel pressured to buy it today.

New review.

Slow mo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDAXW3F06uE

New review.

Anyone shooting events is going to use at least one 285Wh batteries for 2 hours 48 minutes recording 12K 3:2 18:1 compression!

I’m thinking most people will record 8K or 4K but I’d expect to record 9K with the Cine 12K camera to use an affordable zoom like the Tokina 25-75mm with its 36mm image circle.

Some really impressive dynamic range on those shots!

Anyone know when the body will start hitting shelves at the usual suspects? B&H, Adorama, etc.

Anyone know when the body will start hitting shelves at the usual suspects? B&H, Adorama, etc.

I'd venture to say March/April is likely. Since the "Packages" are already in stock at most of them it's only a matter of time before the first body only units arrive. After all, the camera already exists. However, it may still show as "New Item - Coming Soon" into April/May because they are handling Pre-Orders and won't update to "In Stock" until all of those are fulfilled. But I could be wrong. The UMPG2 started shipping right away in March 2019 and I "pre-ordered" mine in May/June and got it end of July. So, if you want to get in the queue just put your order in and they'll get you it when your number is up.

My body only kit should be arriving tomorrow or Saturday.

This is in the UK.

My body only kit should be arriving tomorrow or Saturday.

This is in the UK.

That's fantastic news!

I have little doubt that the big USA Resellers like B&H and Adorama will have a slower time getting gear out. Part of the problem being how big they are.

Hi all, first post here but I've been lurking for a bit.

Been looking to migrate to a real cine camera from my rigged out A6700 which has served me well. I was focusing on the Burano being in the Sony system but upon finding the Cine 12k LF that has jumped to the top of my list. I will miss the Sony autofocus. As someone new to the BMD ecosystem, I'd be buying the body plus a bunch of accessories a a carte including V mount plate, V mount batteries/charger (looking at a pair of bebop 156Wh hot swappable), AC adapter, 8TB storage module, and the UCine12k top handle, baseplate, and EVF. Maybe the PL mount adapter too. Even with all this, there is a huge savings over buying the CIne12k LF EVF kit. At some point BMD surely will reduce pricing on the kits, otherwise hard to see anyone buying them?

I will need to invest in cine lenses coming from the Sony photo world. Was looking at the DZO Catta Ace 18-35/35-80 zoom set and Vespid 12/25/35/50/75 set - anyone using these lenses with their Cine 12k ?

Other thing I will need is proper support. I am using a cheap Ulanzi Videofast TT48 with my A6700 rig and for the money I have zero complaints, but will need to invest in a real tripod. Probably OConnor 1040 which I think is suitable for the heft of the Cine 12k LF.

I am also considering buying a DJI Ronin 4D which would be used mostly for travel - everything is fits in a case that is easy to transport, no need to bring a tripod with the built-in 4-axis stabilizer. However the storage is a real problem with this system, DJI requires their 1TB SSD @ $800 for full use, it's nothing but a M.2 SSD that is chipped and sealed in a housing making it captive - nothing other than an obvious money grab for their customers already buying an expensive camera. Kudos to BMD for their very fairly priced and extremely fast 8TB (and I understand upcoming 16TB) modules. A single port reader would really be nice, and is hopefully in the works, but the 10G ethernet connection is certainly workable in the meantime. I have some other concerns about the DJI but nothing compares as a portable gimble camera.

Can BMD put the same sensor and limit it to 8k on a Pyxis body and add a built in ND?
NAB is around the corner.
The 12k LF is great value but its crew cam attributes including its size, weight and extra side screen is not for everyone especially for smaller crew and single operators.

That might be the future Pyxis Pro aka Pyxis G2.

Well it's a very chunky boi.



There's literally nothing else in the box than the camera and Resolve License. Not even the Wifi antennas which I thought was a bit stingy, but presumably I can use any old antenna?

I think it would make more sense for internal NDs to fit in an Ursa Mini sized body.
Honestly I can’t see Blackmagic doing much more with this sensor other than continue to strip down the Ursa Cine body due to cooling and internal NDs needing to be larger.
Just the body being half the cost, should get people on board, but what I really want is an Ursa Cine without the side screen and replace it with mounting options like the Pyxis. If they got rid of the wireless, they could also help lower cost…

As for a Pyxis G2, I doubt we will see the Ursa Cine sensor in there, perhaps the UMP12k s35 sensor?

But for real, I’d pay +$5000 for a stripped down Ursa Cine without the bells and whistles or wireless/side screen

Well it's a very chunky boi.



There's literally nothing else in the box than the camera and Resolve License. Not even the Wifi antennas which I thought was a bit stingy, but presumably I can use any old antenna?

I would make sure they are the right band. I know in audio you need to match them.

Cool will ask someone official.

That might be the future Pyxis Pro aka Pyxis G2.

Pyxis Cine 12k LF

Does anyone know why there is a ISO limit of 3200? I don't get why we can't get 6400 or 12800, yes it might be noise, but would be nice to have the option...I hope this gets added by firmware.

Does anyone know why there is a ISO limit of 3200? I don't get why we can't get 6400 or 12800, yes it might be noise, but would be nice to have the option...I hope this gets added by firmware.

Changing camera ISO does not change gain, it just brightens or darkens the image you see in the viewfinder, i.e. ISO-invariant; a change of ISO in-camera is the same as a change of ISO in post.

This camera sat for weeks at our local reseller. Either the bottom has really fallen in the filmmaking business or there are better options?
I'm thinking about it but at the same time if it does not sell well it probably won't get any updates and abandoned like the BMCC6K

This camera sat for weeks at our local reseller…

Are you talking about the URSA Cine 12K LF with all the accessories under $15K or The Body only?

This camera sat for weeks at our local reseller…

Are you talking about the URSA Cine 12K LF with all the accessories under $15K or The Body only?

The body only one. No takers.

That is interesting that demand for the bare bones approach may not be as high as one might expect, at least initially. It’s early days and things may pickup after NAB2025 in April. One vendor may not indicate a general trend, but it could still be possible.

A feature of The Body is the introduction of the dual CFExpresss card module which lowers the cost of media but without support for the most demanding bitrates that BMD’s proprietary dual high speed 8 TB module supports (at a reasonable price) which is still available as an option on The Body.

One vendor may not indicate a general trend, but it could still be possible.

They are.

After 24 days, Adorama has shipped my body only Blackmagic URSA Cine 12K LF after being on backorder since the morning of January 31.

Angelbird has certified refurbished AV PRO CFexpress 2.0 B MK2 4TB cards from trade show use for $599.99 USD. This card can record at a sustained speed of 1300 MB/s, and is recommended for recording 12K 3:2 (Open Gate) Blackmagic RAW 8:1 up to 45 fps on the URSA Cine 12K. Since 12K 3:2 (Open Gate), 24 fps constant bitrate 3.1 requires 1200 MB/s, it could work.
I would expect it to record at higher speeds when 2 cards are used.

Looking forward to seeing how you configure your rig and your impressions. Dual card recording should produce impressive results.

I don't believe our dear leader that inflation is going to come down, so I took advantage of my Adorama credit card's 12 month 0% interest deal so I can pay it off with depreciated dollars. I like the fact that Adorama doesn’t charge me until it ships.

I bought a large Core SWX B-mount battery, and I plan on using a couple of V-mount batteries with a $41 30cm D-tap Power Cable for ARRI Alexa 35 from eBay. I have a cheap D-Tap charger that works with my batteries that came with a Wasabi Power V-Mount Battery (14.4V, 13200mAh, 195Wh) from Blue Nook on eBay for $163.99 USD.

Unlike the Pocket models, the optional 24V AC adapter does not charge the battery.

Sirui VSK-3

SiruiVSK-3.jpg (52.2 KiB) Viewed 19958 times

I’ll use a Blackmagic B-mount plate and a V-mount plate for a 15mm rod mount with a $79.00 USD Sirui VSK-3 Video Survival Kit with handle. cage, rod mount plate, shoulder Pad, offset Z-Bracket, and camera platform rig. BH Photovideo has them on sale. The platform has female ¼”-20, and ⅜” threads for attaching a tripod. It comes with a 9mm shank, 5mm thread 1/4 Inch D-ring Camera Screw, but adding another one would provide a solid connection from the 8mm thick upper platform to the camera base. I got a package of 3 S10 9mm shank 5mm thread 1/4 Inch Screw D-ring Camera Screws from the Braveyo store on AliExpress for $1.30 USD. They match the original screw on the VSK-3.

I will use a Smallrig V-Mount Battery Adapter Plate with Dual 15mm Rod Clamp hanging off the back end of the VSK-3 when not using the B-mount battery.

I may add a boom of some kind on the cage of the VSK-3 for a microphone, possibly a lightweight NATO mount one, like the Zacuto MicroBOOM.

Nicely done with an eye on maximum value with minimum expense.

Did the body only camera came with a pair of antennas?

@WahWay See that thread :
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216397

@WahWay See that thread :
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216397

So they don't have antennas but if you contact BMD they will send you some. How strange

Yes strange. I think That this is a mistake from bmd and next packaging will include antennas.

Is the V mount battery plate from the Ursa Mini Pro compatable with the Ursa Cine 12k LF?