URSA 4.6K Footage

If Blackmagic wants people to wait and buy,

.....

then they would be wise to finish working on the image before publishing too many examples of early footage.

:-p

Strongly disagree. It's been a month and a half since NAB. It's been way more than enough time to upload more than one 3 minute highly compressed video. This whole "wait til it's right" stuff gets annoying. If it's not exceedingly close to finished, there's no way they'll ship by July. Clearly the cameras are out there. Let's see some footage.

There's no point showing footage from an unfinished camera. It doesn't tell you anything more than what you can tell from hooks footages. The footage will not truly represent what the camera will be because it's not been fully calibrated and cooked properly yet.

When the next engineering milestone is done then you'll see more. It's no different to how BM have always worked.

JB


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It's always been this way. BM isn't canon. They don't work the same way.

There's lots of reasons the footage can't be downloaded. Something shot in ProRes for example with a camera that hasn't been officially Apple certified.

And the camera won't get certified until it's submitted to Apple for certification.

And that won't happen until it's finished....

There are many reasons why and as I said it's exactly the same as with all their previous cameras.

JB


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then they would be wise to finish working on the image before publishing too many examples of early footage.

Exactly. People seem to ignore the history around here, but those were clearly labelled images from an early prototype. We know what comes next, based on what's happened before. Once they've finished developing the sensor and getting the most out of it they can, THEN we get some ProRes originals and THEN maybe RAW files to download. That's not gonna come before they're ready to let people push and pull the shots like crazy to see where it breaks. Give it another month or two based on past history before we get samples to play with. Yes, it could be July before we even get samples. Lets be real here. How it's always been.

Clearly the cameras are out there. Let's see some footage.

What do you base that on? John has been the only non-BMD-employee I've seen post pictures of the actual camera. Likely an early prototype too? His history getting early access is well documented. He was there with them doing the cinema camera before it was even announced!

If he had footage he could post, don't you think it would be posted by now? Pretty simple to figure out what's going on. Must be an early prototype as I said so can't post footage. Dunno why people are surprised, same thing every year.

Well, already had seen the video a couple of days ago. ¿Can you guys add a YouTube link? Vimeo compression sucks.

Well, already had seen the video a couple of days ago. ¿Can you guys add a YouTube link? Vimeo compression sucks.

There's no YouTube link. Only an embedded vimeo link. And some of the BMD apologists in here think that's somehow perfectly fine. Yeah, expecting to see some footage from a camera due in a month or so is totally unreasonable

Yeah, expecting to see some footage from a camera due in a month or so is totally unreasonable

Not unreasonable if the camera is not finished.

Canon and Sony don't release footage when they launch their C series or F series cameras. They normally have a short film but thats no different from when we have from BM at the moment.

When it's ready we will see footage. Simples.

¿Can you guys add a YouTube link? Vimeo compression sucks.

What? Usually Vimeo uses a higher bitrate and better settings when compressing to mp4...

And some of the BMD apologists

I love this phrase so much, haven't heard it in a while. Thanks for bringing it back into the lexicon....cause you know...it's such a real insult.

JB

¿Can you guys add a YouTube link? Vimeo compression sucks.

What? Usually Vimeo uses a higher bitrate and better settings when compressing to mp4...

YouTube's 1440p and 2160p settings are visually far superior. Personally it's a better portal for 2K and 4K screening.

There's no YouTube link. Only an embedded vimeo link. And some of the BMD apologists in here think that's somehow perfectly fine. Yeah, expecting to see some footage from a camera due in a month or so is totally unreasonable

A lot of people will preorder them just based on the specs and ergonomics. Those who aren't sure can simply wait until the cameras start shipping to distributors, since that's also when the testers will be able to start sharing footage, since that's when the cameras will be ready for primetime.

It's not like you're being forced to preorder or something, after all.

it's 2 months before the 4.6 ursa is supposed to ship...i doubt anything is final with this camera at this point...does not mean i would not love to see some raw files, but regardless: i doubt BM can ship these fast enough to fill the orders already placed, so for anyone wanting to get their hands on the first batch, order now, or it's probably too late for that already....for all others: i am sure we will get some files when the shipping date is closer, but realistically i won't expect this to really be readily available before november....which is also when the first firmware fixes will come out...
of course with BM track record all bets are off anyway when it comes to shipping dates....but in this case i doubt they will make the same mistakes again...this will be the camera to really, really put them on the map and put some real pressure on the "big boys"....
it's funny to me to see Red selling their battle tested scarlets and epics at samy's....2 years ago they would have flown out the door....now i wonder who actually buys that....and i feel a little bad for Aja...

BMD is certainly going to put the hurt on the competition, for sure. Especially when you start reading reports from people like Marco Solorio, which is to say people who are more than mere camera dongles.

AJA is in an interesting and awkward position. They basically have a compact Ursa, but a much better reputation for customer service, which is their big draw. My ideal situation would be a Cion + Ursa Mini as my kit, based on the Cion NAB reel... but I want to demo the Cion before purchasing one, while I'd be willing to purchase an Ursa Mini sigh unseen based on prior experience.

And some of the BMD apologists

I love this phrase so much, haven't heard it in a while. Thanks for bringing it back into the lexicon....cause you know...it's such a real insult.

JB

It's not meant to be an insult. It's used as a descriptive term. "A person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial." You and several others are often defending blackmagic over (depending on opinion) controversial topics. You don't just say "I think it's too early, perhaps we'll see more footage soon." You go into why BMD does or doesn't do this or that. I think it's a reasonable expectation so see some kind of footage that hasn't been compressed so heavily. I don't expect to see raw footage, not really even 4k footage. Just some 1080p footage that's available in some way other than a direct embed link only on the BMD website. In my opinion, that's entirely reasonable. You're welcome to disagree, as you have. It's interesting to see the people who specifically disagree because "BMD shouldn't have to ____" or "BMD doesn't make a habit of _____". That's being an apologist, which isn't an insult, just a word with a specific meaning.

Not sure why this is such a big deal. I just think we ought to be able to see some footage. That's really not so crazy. Obviously Hook had a camera 2 months back that was able to let him shoot what he did. It's not unreasonable to think there's more finalized cameras available, able to provide some more (or at least less compressed) example footage.

Ian, I explained several of what are many reasons why footage might not be available in the form you're seeking.

Many of the reasons might even be ones that can't be spoken about publicly.

You're not accepting those reasons. You decry an official silence as cause for concern.

And that's fine. BM have form here.

For explaining those reasons though you label me (and others) an apologist.

Am I an apologist ? Or am I explaining as tactfully as I can within the bounds of NDA reasons why you can't have what you want ?

What's the flip side ? Does that make you a BMD hater ? It's an idiotic label.

It infers something to hide. It alludes to subterfuge and error.

Or it just explains why you haven't seen any footage.

What exactly is your point ? You haven't seen more footage ?

JB



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Ian, I explained several of what are many reasons why footage might not be available in the form you're seeking.

Many of the reasons might even be ones that can't be spoken about publicly.

You're not accepting those reasons. You decry an official silence as cause for concern.

And that's fine. BM have form here.

For explaining those reasons though you label me (and others) an apologist.

Am I an apologist ? Or am I explaining as tactfully as I can within the bounds of NDA reasons why you can't have what you want ?

What's the flip side ? Does that make you a BMD hater ? It's an idiotic label.

It infers something to hide. It alludes to subterfuge and error.

Or it just explains why you haven't seen any footage.

What exactly is your point ? You haven't seen more footage ?

JB

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I didn't decry a cause for concern for anything. I said I want to see some less compressed footage. You're upset because I used the word "apologist" which just means somebody defending and unpopular opinion. I didn't say "defenders" because that word isn't as precise. Using a variety of vocabulary to help illustrate the meaning isn't "idiotic". You just don't like that word, fine. There's no implication of subterfuge, google it if you'd like. This is silliness though. My main argument wasn't about BMD apologists, it was that I want to see some less compressed footage, and arguing that expecting to see some less compressed footage isn't outrageous. Maybe there isn't any to show for a variety of reasons, fine. Doesn't mean I'm crazy for thinking there ought to be some.

Again, this isn't that big a deal.

Yeah, expecting to see some footage from a camera due in a month or so is totally unreasonable

You're naive if you think it will ship in July. Look at the history. That's what people have been trying to politely say.

the word "apologist" which just means somebody defending and unpopular opinion.

But in this thread, you're the one with the unpopular opinion. We're telling you why, but you don't want to accept it. You're only at the first stage. Denial. The rest of us are well into acceptance when it comes to Blackmagic history.

Have you been around for ANY of the previous camera releases? If not, do some reading of the forum threads from during those times. This is how it goes. You're just repeating history Ian, and we are in return with these replies. Every time the same thing. "We want (more) footage!" and the reply is "Wait until it's ready." I'm telling you. It will be another month or two.

Let me put in simply. Do you think Blackmagic are sitting there with working cameras that could get footage they could post uncompressed, but they're not doing it because they're just waiting for someone on a forum to ask for it?? Do you really think a few people asking for footage is what's missing from the equation? How stupid do you think Blackmagic are? The obvious answer is the simple one. The camera/sensor isn't ready to show more footage yet and that's what they're working on.

Do you think John or Blackmagic aren't posting more footage because they don't like posting footage? Or is it more reasonable to expect they're dying to but can't yet because it's not ready?

Come on man, think about it.

Yeah, expecting to see some footage from a camera due in a month or so is totally unreasonable

You're naive if you think it will ship in July. Look at the history. That's what people have been trying to politely say.

the word "apologist" which just means somebody defending and unpopular opinion.

But in this thread, you're the one with the unpopular opinion. We're telling you why, but you don't want to accept it. You're only at the first stage. Denial. The rest of us are well into acceptance when it comes to Blackmagic history.

Have you been around for ANY of the previous camera releases? If not, do some reading of the forum threads from during those times. This is how it goes. You're just repeating history Ian, and we are in return with these replies. Every time the same thing. "We want (more) footage!" and the reply is "Wait until it's ready." I'm telling you. It will be another month or two.

Let me put in simply. Do you think Blackmagic are sitting there with working cameras that could get footage they could post uncompressed, but they're not doing it because they're just waiting for someone on a forum to ask for it?? Do you really think a few people asking for footage is what's missing from the equation? How stupid do you think Blackmagic are? The obvious answer is the simple one. The camera/sensor isn't ready to show more footage yet and that's what they're working on.

Do you think John or Blackmagic aren't posting more footage because they don't like posting footage? Or is it more reasonable to expect they're dying to but can't yet because it's not ready?

Come on man, think about it.

Good lord. What on earth. I'm not in denial about anything. I waited 8 months for the BMCC, and the same for the BMPC4k. I don't expect them to ship in July. But I've seen some compressed 1080p footage from a 4.6k camera that was shot 2 months ago. I want to see it less compressed, or some other similar footage less compressed. That is what I'm saying, how many ways do you want to spin it?

"Do you think Blackmagic are sitting there with working cameras that could get footage they could post uncompressed, but they're not doing it because they're just waiting for someone on a forum to ask for it??" What an attitude. No, I think they're sitting around because they have a history of doing so. Being totally silent while people wait for eons for any kind of news on firmware updates to fix broken aspects of various cameras (black sun spots, massive FPN problems on the BMPC4k, etc), or promised features that were never included (audio problems, no RAW on the BMPC4k when it came out even though all the marketing media touted it, etc etc etc etc).

Give me a break with all the "you must not know anything" garbage. I've owned several blackmagic cameras and been on this forums for a long time. NONE of that precludes me from thinking I'd like to see some less compressed footage.

Good. Grief.

Give me a break with all the "you must not know anything" garbage. I've owned several blackmagic cameras and been on this forums for a long time. NONE of that precludes me from thinking I'd like to see some less compressed footage.

The people who have been explaining why there isn't more and less compressed footage available have been pretty reasonable and logical. It's quite simply a case of them not being ready to share. Now, if you're familiar with the history, then it should be exactly what you'd expect; BMD will start sharing footage about the same time that they release the production models into distribution.

Anyone who's been following Black Magic for the last few years should be used to this by now.

Give me a break with all the "you must not know anything" garbage. I've owned several blackmagic cameras and been on this forums for a long time. NONE of that precludes me from thinking I'd like to see some less compressed footage.

The people who have been explaining why there isn't more and less compressed footage available have been pretty reasonable and logical. It's quite simply a case of them not being ready to share. Now, if you're familiar with the history, then it should be exactly what you'd expect; BMD will start sharing footage about the same time that they release the production models into distribution.

Anyone who's been following Black Magic for the last few years should be used to this by now.

Because you and others seem to have forgotten or otherwise not read my first post in here:

When are we going to see more footage from the 4.6k cameras? All we've seen so far is a highly compressed 1080p vimeo upload of CaptainHook's shots. It looks nice, but compressed 1080p by no means shows what this camera is or is not capable of. If Blackmagic wants people to wait and buy, it'd be nice to know what we're waiting for.

That is precisely what I said, and then start getting beat over the head about why that's so unreasonable, the camera isn't ready, oh you're so stupid for not knowing the history of how BMD is late on literally everything they ship why would you expect this to be different, etc etc. I just said "When are we going to see more footage from the 4.6k cameras." I posted it a month and a half after this thread was started. Totally reasonable. So the answer may be "nobody knows" or "not for awhile". Fine. But all the condescension and brow beating about "it's ready when it's ready" is just obnoxious.

That is precisely what I said, and then start getting beat over the head about why that's so unreasonable, the camera isn't ready, oh you're so stupid for not knowing the history of how BMD is late on literally everything they ship why would you expect this to be different, etc etc. I just said "When are we going to see more footage from the 4.6k cameras." I posted it a month and a half after this thread was started. Totally reasonable. So the answer may be "nobody knows" or "not for awhile". Fine. But all the condescension and brow beating about "it's ready when it's ready" is just obnoxious.

No, actually what people have been critical of was:

Strongly disagree. It's been a month and a half since NAB. It's been way more than enough time to upload more than one 3 minute highly compressed video. This whole "wait til it's right" stuff gets annoying. If it's not exceedingly close to finished, there's no way they'll ship by July. Clearly the cameras are out there. Let's see some footage.

... which was your response to some perfectly logical reasons for why there isn't more footage out there yet, hardly reasonable or logical.

Ian, the answer to your question is simply "nobody knows, not for awhile". Hope that settles it.

AJA is in an interesting and awkward position. They basically have a compact Ursa, but a much better reputation for customer service, which is their big draw. My ideal situation would be a Cion + Ursa Mini as my kit, based on the Cion NAB reel... but I want to demo the Cion before purchasing one, while I'd be willing to purchase an Ursa Mini sigh unseen based on prior experience.

AJA just dropped the price of the Cion to $4995 (form $8995).

They sugarcoat that as "Summer of Savings" - IMHO they are just desperate.
As I said before, the Cion was death on arrival - to less, too little, too late, for too much.

The guys who actually used the Cion on a real world production, had nothing good to say about it (to say the least). I never understood why some folks are drawn to the Cion so much. Too expensive for what it is and does, proprietary madia that is even more expensive than C-Fast, but you can't record raw on it (WTF?), menus are a nightmare, noisy, and the DR is even less than the original BMCC4k - doesn't sound exactly attractive to me.

"But, but.. the form factor is so great."

What?

Same shoe box form factor with shoulder pad as the Ursa, Alexa, F55 etc. - what's so special about that form factor?

But Frank - it looks so cute

Ian, the answer to your question is simply "nobody knows, not for awhile". Hope that settles it.

Fair enough. It was essentially a rhetorical question out of curiosity anyways. I didn't expect a Blackmagic rep to come in and give an exact date. I just think it looks like a great camera and am excited about seeing more footage, and thought given the fact that some was posted a month and a half ago, we might see more on the way soon. Yours is a simple, appropriate answer. I didn't see the need others felt to call me naive and imply stupidity for expecting to see some more footage based on past release dates, manufacturing processes, BMD standard operating procedures etc.

So, here's hoping some more footage drops soon. Can't wait to see what this camera can do. If it delivers everything promised, without FPN at ISO 800, I will for sure be a happy early adopter.

The guys who actually used the Cion on a real world production, had nothing good to say about it (to say the least). I never understood why some folks are drawn to the Cion so much. Too expensive for what it is and does, proprietary madia that is even more expensive than C-Fast, but you can't record raw on it (WTF?), menus are a nightmare, noisy, and the DR is even less than the original BMCC4k - doesn't sound exactly attractive to me.

Interestingly, some people who used it in production loved its color and its lack of noise, which allowed them to get a lot of detail out of the shadows in grading. Hence, I'm demoing it before being willing to plunk down bux on it even with the deep discount.

Still excited about the Ursa Mini, of course

When the NDA lifts, I'm sure the beta testers will have plenty of footage out there. Too many pitfalls for BMD to release official files.

When the NDA lifts, I'm sure the beta testers will have plenty of footage out there. Too many pitfalls for BMD to release official files.

And avoid the very situation AJA is in with the Cion, since there were some unpleasant color issues in the first version of the firmware. Except that it was also AJA's first camera, so AJA has no reputation at all when it comes to cameras.

Hi.

Sorry, The download link in the first post of this thread doesn't seem to work anymore. It's now just a link to the product page.

Is there anywhere I can get URSA 4.6k demo footage?

The footage is on the product page, scroll down to find it. It is not downloadable.

Sorry, The download link in the first post of this thread doesn't seem to work anymore. It's now just a link to the product page.

Is there anywhere I can get URSA 4.6k demo footage?

It was never downloadable. As David said. That link to the product page has the footage embedded part way down the page.

Other places you can now view the same footage:
http://nofilmschool.com/2015/06/blackma ... ks-stellar
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/06/13/n ... mini-4-6k/
https://www.cinema5d.com/first-blackmag ... -released/

Ah ok.

sorry for the confusion.

Is there anywhere I can get some actual, unprocessed sample footage from the camera? I want to test my post-production workflow. (some slow-mo, some highest resolution possible, raw…)

Reading the rest of the thread you're posting in should give you an answer.

Wondering what glasses you shot the footages with, Captain Hook?

Most of it was the Sigma 18-35/1.8 Art, and a few shots the Sigma 50/1.4 Art.

@CaptainHook does the Sigma 18-35 completely cover the 4.6K sensor?

If so, do you know if Canon APS-C lenses fully cover the sensor?
(The reason I ask is that I suspect the Sigma 18-35 has a slightly larger image circle as it has variants for Nikon/Sony's APS-C sensors, which are slightly larger than Canon's APS-C.)

Ah ok.

sorry for the confusion.

Is there anywhere I can get some actual, unprocessed sample footage from the camera? I want to test my post-production workflow. (some slow-mo, some highest resolution possible, raw…)

Not until the camera is ready to ship...