Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostFri Dec 28, 2012 8:54 pm

Even tough very few cameras out there means not much testing from the field ,
i am wondering if there is any news about the quality of the RAW debayer post workflow,

i remember researching 3 months ago and i remember :

Davinci Resolve : not good quality , banding on the image etc..
Adobe : better than resolve but only 8 bit ?


any news about this issue (especially resolve)

thanks

g
Offline
User avatar

Tom

  • Posts: 1626
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 am
  • Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostFri Dec 28, 2012 9:50 pm

I'm not sure how you have reached those conclusions, I am sure many others would agree with me that Resolve does a great job of Raw converting.


Personally I favour transcoding them to Cineform RAW and using the cineform debayering.
Tom Majerski
http://tetragrade.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/
Offline
User avatar

Nick Bedford

  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 am
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostFri Dec 28, 2012 10:23 pm

Well if I ever get my camera I ordered in May I'll say something about it... :(
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1662
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostFri Dec 28, 2012 10:29 pm

Yupp, Resolve does a great job here, especially after the last updates with the BMC reverse curve for BMC-DNGs and recover highlights checkbox.

Took me a while to know what I'm doing in Resolve, but now it works just fine for me.

Cineform has a nice raw workflow too, especially if you don't have time for roundtrips.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostFri Dec 28, 2012 11:27 pm

i tested resolve myself in september with the raw shots made available by BMD on this forum and i clearly saw banding ( i remember the skin of the girl playing pool table)
i discussed about it on this forum and other people confirmed it , someone posted comparison screenshots between resolve and adobe and i rember people mentioning that adobe was limited @ 8 bit .

than resolve got 1 update , they introduced the cinema log curve and i remember no banding with it but the lut they provided at the time (log to Vid) had completely different color than using 709 (the red sweeter was orange )

so i guess got more update ?

also : does anybody knows about more RAW to download?

thanks

g
Offline
User avatar

Tom

  • Posts: 1626
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 am
  • Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostSat Dec 29, 2012 9:17 pm

Gabriele Turchi wrote:i tested resolve myself in september with the raw shots made available by BMD on this forum and i clearly saw banding



really? care to share links to this?
Tom Majerski
http://tetragrade.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostSat Dec 29, 2012 9:22 pm

i guess these are the only raw sequences available

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15

anybody knows about other shots available for download?

g
Offline
User avatar

Tom

  • Posts: 1626
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 am
  • Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 4:08 pm

Gabriele Turchi wrote:i guess these are the only raw sequences available

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15

anybody knows about other shots available for download?

g



No i mean examples of this banding which you refer to. I have probably played with pretty much every available DNG from this camera in resolve and have pushed it pretty far with the grade and never found any problem with banding.
Tom Majerski
http://tetragrade.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 5:59 pm

the closeup of the girl playing pool clearly had banding on the skin stepping down every ISO ( and noting else ( using rec 709)
it is worth to say that i have a 58" plasma with SDI ( those things are hard to notice on anything smaller than 24 and a very clean signal )

g
Offline

Kholi Hicks

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:04 pm

Aren't you the colorist for that 5D Short film in Kenya?

If you're looking for DNGs you can download the 3 Gigs that I uploaded:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3791

I'm definitely not a Cary Fukunaga but they're new DNGs and you can test things out. I don't see any color banding at all when pushing the material in Resolve 9's latest build, using BMD Film, but if you see some let me know where.

Oh, I will say that in some ProRes footage that I shot during my testing phase I DID see Banding under very specific circumstances, but I also think it was due to my retina display. On the Barco 2K in our DI suite I don't remember seeing the same banding.

And again, I definitely haven't seen any in RAW but let me know what you think.
Kholi Hicks
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:13 pm

Hi Kohli ,

Yes i have graded Kary's Fukunaga short (that was 5D (due to extreme locations conditions ), hopefully BMCC will be the new 5D...)

thanks a lot , i will give it a try as soon as i get back in NYC (out for vacation now ) , a month ago i did try quickly the BMD FIlm curve and i saw no banding , but than in resolve using the LUT that comes with it (for BMCC) the color tonality was quite different than using 709 ( so that lut and the 709 have completely different color matrix (the RED sweeter of the girl playing pool kind of got orange ...)

thanks

g
Offline

Kholi Hicks

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

You make a strong case for 5D with your work, and like you I hope that Blackmagic will become the new 5D. The color latitude and dynamic range are boons to filmmakers on a budget.

One thing that I've noticed with the footage is that there's a green bias (but this is common in a lot of cameras). A +13 on the tint in setup within Resolve and in some cases, depending on color temp, a +33 gets rid of it and the color accuracy becomes spot on.

In the DNGs that I've linked, you should be able to find a healthy separation of accurate colors in that scene with primaries, but again let me know what you think as you clearly know what you're doing.

OH! Also... I'd love to see your take on the material, even if it's just a still. It's a comedy/horror sort of deal.
Kholi Hicks
Offline

Kholi Hicks

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:20 pm

AND if you'd like any more footage let me know and I'll try to get you some. I've got some extreme lowlight (street lamps only), some interior night mixed lighting, some overlit material etc.

Looking forward to hearing more from ya.
Kholi Hicks
Offline

Gabriele Turchi

  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:26 pm

Tint and WB issue in general on a RAW camera are the very last thing to be concerned (when those things are backed IN on a H264 file , that it's the issue !!!)

What i look for on the BMCC camera is Dynamic Range , Clipped Highlight Roll Off (smoother as possible ) , Chroma Softness/smoothness in general ( that should be there because of the 12 bit ) .

If it have those Characteristics , well, in post can be achieved top results ( than off course it all depends on content , lighting etc.. , but it would be a relief having the same feeling i have grading RED or ALEXA)

ps: thanks for the footage , i will let you know


g
Offline

Kholi Hicks

  • Posts: 732
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Any news on the quality of the raw workflow ?

PostMon Dec 31, 2012 6:31 pm

Yes, we agree completely. So far, in my experience shooting and bending the footage, it's more ARRI like in response than RED, but again your opinion would be very valuable.

Glad to have you on the forums, again let me know if I can provide anything else.

One day I may ask more about your experience with that specific 5D project, very curious about the exposure as I imagine many are.

Thanks Gabriele and have a safe trip.
Kholi Hicks

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests