add Linear Workflow support

Hello
coming from nuke and starting fusion, i was really surprised to discover the linear workflow in fusion.
I have found this about linear workflow but some operations seems not being made to work on linear. CC for example, seems managed in srgb or something close

maybe i'm doing something wrong, but I think something important and as basic as linear workflow needs to be supported natively.


Please blackmagic, inspire from nuke !

you're doing something wrong I expect

we use fusion all the time and in a normal linear workflow
just make sure your loaders are bringing in linear footage (eg exr) or explicitly convert using the gamut tool for those that aren't (eg log)
then use the view LUTs to setup your viewing window for sRGB/rec709 or whatever

the article you linked to describes the steps well enough

maybe we need more detail about what you think isn't working as expected?

I know a few people who definitely don't like fusions CC tools but they work well enough (though they are a bit of a fudge - ie we always use gamma and gain on the main CC tool tab in linear workflows and not lift, or contrast - those options do seem like they are really there for non-linear workflows mostly)

I do miss not having nice easy exposure stops from Nuke though..

the default settings/curves for the high/mid/shadows in CC are not made for linear images

the default settings/curves for the high/mid/shadows in CC are not made for linear images

Seeing as how "linear" only describes the relationship between photons and value and doesn't mean a darn thing in regards to dynamic range, the solution isn't to change the ranges to some new arbitrary values, but to make it easier to define the ranges as needed. Having finer controls (like SPLINECONTROL/CLSID_LUT_Bezier?) that automatically normalized, or having a ranges input with RGB=HMS would make this not only more useful for arbitrary linear image, but arbitrary non-linear images, too. And of course, you want them to be unclamped, so your midtones could run from 0.2 to 1.5 if you wanted.

I think Fusion's CC node is one hell of a grading tool. What you can achieve with one node will probably require multiple nodes in Resolve or layers in Scratch.

I am not aware of any technicalities what goes behind that mode like you guys do but having a separation of s/m/h in one tool is a power house. I mostly work with logs so I was not aware that those features are not suitable for linear content for composite, but what the hell. I always try to do subtle corrections as I think they are more effective than complete bust which seems to be a trend now in commercials as well as movies these days, so in that matter I do not think it even matters if its not meant for linear images as long as you keep it under control.

the default settings/curves for the high/mid/shadows in CC are not made for linear images

yeah but you can change that with the ranges tab...

I do agree it would be nice to have a more linear friendly default though for these as they definitely do default to more of a log friendly split and I find I need to adjust ranges far too often

I think Fusion's CC node is one hell of a grading tool.

It is. It's a beast by itself and one can do remarkable things with one or two CC's, but what Chad said about the linear workflow enhancement and unclamping will make it even more versatile and easy to use in different scenarios. And it's about time already to have some 2D tolls enhancement and some tracking additions. Way too many years nothing has changed on that front.

the default settings/curves for the high/mid/shadows in CC are not made for linear images

yeah but you can change that with the ranges tab...

I do agree it would be nice to have a more linear friendly default though for these as they definitely do default to more of a log friendly split and I find I need to adjust ranges far too often

Missed this option, look way more natural now, thanks !

But yeah, could be easier to make like nule, convert ALL in linear internally (time loosing here in fusion for me)

The range map is really strange too. Correspond to nothing logical (for me) by default. When i tweak it more like nuke one, my smile come back again


www.kaiz3r.net

The range map is really strange too. Correspond to nothing logical (for me) by default. When i tweak it more like nuke one, my smile come back again

But Nuke does it wrong too. Assuming where a midpoint is on unclamped float footage (which is the only time you'd ever have a linear image) is wrong. You always have to define the ranges, whether that's done per comp or per input source or per tool. The best option is to provide the means to define those ranges effectively and conveniently.

The range map is really strange too. Correspond to nothing logical (for me) by default. When i tweak it more like nuke one, my smile come back again

But Nuke does it wrong too. Assuming where a midpoint is on unclamped float footage (which is the only time you'd ever have a linear image) is wrong. You always have to define the ranges, whether that's done per comp or per input source or per tool. The best option is to provide the means to define those ranges effectively and conveniently.

Hmmm... the more I read here the more I get confused. Don't people always adjust the ranges per shot cause no two shots are the same? I would think that is your typical workflow, I mean it makes sense to me.

What I also kind of learned from around here is that a lot of people rely on Contrast and Brightness controls in Fusion. I have over 20 years of experience in print design as well as image retouching and I have yet to use C&B adjustment in Photoshop. I was thought since day one to use curves for that or multiple instances of curves and levels.

I also saw that some posted not to use lift in CC node (something you also can do via curves), ok but how much of a lift are you pushing at once to expose the tool of not being suitable?

Hmmm... the more I read here the more I get confused. Don't people always adjust the ranges per shot cause no two shots are the same? I would think that is your typical workflow, I mean it makes sense to me.

I mean, there's reasonable defaults, right? Fusion assumes the midpoint is 0.5. Perfectly reasonable in some cases. Nuke assumes it's offset because you're dealing with a gamma corrected display. Also reasonable, maybe moreso for most uses. In either case you'd want to have the ability to change it to what your needs are, and really, what is "midpoint" in a color grading sense? It's totally arbitrary, just some verbal shorthand to say "that general range over there". But if the tools to define "that range" aren't easy to use or even non-existent, it gets hard. Reasonable ranges are fine, but when they assume certain types of images (clamped / normalized), they break down when your footage doesn't fit that description.

I have over 20 years of experience in print design as well as image retouching and I have yet to use C&B adjustment in Photoshop. I was thought since day one to use curves for that or multiple instances of curves and levels.

Curves are very hard to use in unclamped color. Photoshop didn't care. Further, curves are slower, and that's not an issue in Photoshop because you do it once, not once per frame. When your color adjustments are non-destructive, you tend to use more atomic tools anyway. If you only get one shot at the image, though, you want to have a tool that does more, like curves. Both approaches you describe are ideal for the environment where they are being used.

The range map is really strange too. Correspond to nothing logical (for me) by default. When i tweak it more like nuke one, my smile come back again

But Nuke does it wrong too. Assuming where a midpoint is on unclamped float footage (which is the only time you'd ever have a linear image) is wrong. You always have to define the ranges, whether that's done per comp or per input source or per tool. The best option is to provide the means to define those ranges effectively and conveniently.

Why ? As nuke convert absolutly all in linear, midpoint is supposed to be at the same place. For sure we always need to tweek it to have more control but i find that in fusion it's not natural and sometimes have strange response


www.kaiz3r.net

midpoint is supposed to be at the same place.

Not at all. It depends on the range of the image. An image that has a range from 0.02 - 154.3 has what as a midpoint? The same as an image that has a range of 0.0 - 0.35?

Nuke convert all in 32bit float so 0.5 is 0.5 no matter the source


www.kaiz3r.net

Nuke convert all in 32bit float so 0.5 is 0.5 no matter the source

And?

Hi William,

not sure if it helps your question, but Stephan himself posted (about an year ago) a feature that is directly related to linear workflow in Fusion.

Here is the image:

gamma_aware_color_wheels.PNG (83 KiB) Viewed 4622 times

The thread is also very interesting:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29507

Hi William,

not sure if it helps your question, but Stephan himself posted (about an year ago) a feature that is directly related to linear workflow in Fusion.

Here is the image:

gamma_aware_color_wheels.PNG

The thread is also very interesting:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29507

Hi
thank you i have find that too, it strange that by degault its on gamma 2 instead of 2.2

Interesting thread about improvment, thanks


www.kaiz3r.net