Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? specs?

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 1:16 pm

Nothing wrong with Windows- just turn off all auto updates crap when you have system running well.
I also prefer OSX, but Mac hardware is not up to the task anymore, which is bit sad.
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John Richard

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Folks reading this thread for hardware advice might also want to check this thread on a similar discussion and viewpoints: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=55270

Clearly there is a strong need for current guidance on Resolve hardware that is fact based on quality benchmarking.

As noted in the other thread and here, it is crucial to first determine your typical codec source material, resolution (1080p - 6k), and project length (30 sec spot commercial or 2 hr feature length). This info then guides you how to spend your budget money.

The biggest problem you'll run into in making an informed decision is the lack of sound Resolve benchmark testing of current hardware. The one video supplied in both threads demonstrating the dual Xeon vs single i7 was not as useful as it could have been because the wrong 4 core i7 was used and crippled with 67% less ram. But this benchmark video did show that even a far less expensive low end i7 4 core with far less ram was roughly equal to a far more expensive dual Xeon rig on short projects and 1080p material. Left unanswered factually was the hardware needed for long projects with high resolution material - so we're generally left with the assumption that dual Xeons are needed for long, high res projects still.

There is some good sound benchmarking of high end dual Xeon vs high end i7 hardware fitted with equal other components on a current version of Premiere which also relies on GPU power (especially nVidia Cuda). But it is still not testing of hardware on Resolve which could be written to use of more than the i7 6950 10 cores.

The question seems to be a need for an answer - does Resolve perform better with the far higher core count but lower CPU frequency of a dual Xeon; or does it function faster from the higher CPU frequency but lower 10 core limit of the i7 6950. Not an easy question to answer when you then throw in the mix of resolutions, project length, codecs, other software needed to run on the machine, and the cost of running these benchmarks.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:07 pm

so we're generally left with the assumption that dual Xeons are needed for long, high res projects still.

dual xeon's are needed for the lanes for the cards you need for highrez / longform
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Jean Claude

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 3:18 pm

John,

It is only you who can make an impeccable test with your clips on your future machine, your requirements and get your conclusions. Excuse me but you can not ask the others to do it for you. We can give some advice from our experiences, but "We do what we can"
Regards,
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
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Eirik Heim

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:11 pm

I feel I am just getting more and more confused. I think I know what to go for, but in the next second..
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:22 pm

Eirik Heim wrote:I am willing to pay for dual xeon CPUs it that is the path to follow


Then you probably want to go with one of these 2, as they are higher frequency and more efficient per clock cycle.

http://ark.intel.com/products/92979/Int ... e-3_20-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/91750/Int ... e-3_00-GHz


If you go with a NAS set up, you are going to need a 40Gb card.
X99-A II, 6850K 4.2 GHz, GTX 1070 FE (431.36), DDR4-2400 CL12-14-14 4x8 GB
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John Richard

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:35 pm

Jean Claude wrote:John,

It is only you who can make an impeccable test with your clips on your future machine, your requirements and get your conclusions. Excuse me but you can not ask the others to do it for you. We can give some advice from our experiences, but "We do what we can"
Regards,


My efforts here were not just on my own behalf. In fact, I had already placed my order quite a while back.

I believe there is a large volume of users who are moving from the Mac hardware also. As such and so stated, because of all the knowledgeable help so many here give willingly, I thought I also should reciprocate with what I learned and still struggle with. This discussion has proven even more valuable with all the input so far and believe it has been and will be helpful to many with a big decision for most. There isn't a huge body of specific factual Resolve specific info available. And there is a lot of conflicting info from knowledgeable people as well as dated info of unknown basis.

But I think if one takes the time to read all the material in the 2 related threads below, one can make a fairly educated decision based upon their average project type and other software used:

- Short 1080p to light 4k projects - 8 to 10 core i7 and invest in 2 or more GPU's and ram
-Long heavy 4k - 6k projects - dual Xeon's for PCIe lanes needed for mulitple GPU's and external storage required by massive amounts of data

And of course I or anyone in this community can ask for help learning and making decisions - that is what this forum is for. And thankfully so many good people make such an effort. Even the good folks at Blackmagic take the time and make the effort to help with their public forum. They can repeat the same answers on phone call after phone call to support ... or they can publish the answers to repeat customer questions one time here for all to learn.
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Jean Claude

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:45 pm

If everything that was said and written could help you make your decision, that's good news.

Makes us a feedback (and a benchmark) with your future configuration and your workflow. It will be a testimony to share for all. :)
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 4:47 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:
so we're generally left with the assumption that dual Xeons are needed for long, high res projects still.

dual xeon's are needed for the lanes for the cards you need for highrez / longform


I have to say I disagree with this. A single cpu with 40 lanes will let you run 2 gpus and 8 lanes free to use with NAS and other cards. it also leaves room for an internal OS and cache raid. Then its all down to how much $$$ you want to put into a NAS, for bulk storage.
X99-A II, 6850K 4.2 GHz, GTX 1070 FE (431.36), DDR4-2400 CL12-14-14 4x8 GB
Win 10 Pro 1809, Resolve Studio 16.1.0b.017
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:02 pm

Dan, maybe try to put what i have in my z820 today into a 40 lane MB;
dual slot width GPU
dual slot width GPU
single slot width BMD i/o
single slot width AJA i/o
single slot width Lsi RAID hba
single slot width Tbolt2 hba


and then keep it all cool enough to render a 4k DCDM for 26 hours with the proc's and GPU's at 100%.... and absolutly zero failures / render errors / flash frames... all those clever internal air ducts in the HP, and massive fans in the SuperMicro serve a purpose.

the i7 mb may have a Tbolt intergrated, so that card might be able to go away... the rest of the cards are needed, i would prefer a dual slot width BMD i/o if space allowed

thoughts? expansion cage?
Last edited by Dermot Shane on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:09 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:Dan, maybe try to put what i have in my z820 today into a 40 lane MB;
dual slot width GPU
dual slot width GPU
dual slot width BMD 4k i/o
single slot width Lsi RAID hba
single slot width Tbolt2 hba
single slot width AJA i/o

and then keep it all cool enough to render a 4k DCDM for 26 hours with the proc's and GPU's at 100%.... and absolutly zero failures / render errors / flash frames



That is what you need for your very specific work flow, not everyone has your workflow and hardware requirements. Look past your workflow and consider what others might need to do.
X99-A II, 6850K 4.2 GHz, GTX 1070 FE (431.36), DDR4-2400 CL12-14-14 4x8 GB
Win 10 Pro 1809, Resolve Studio 16.1.0b.017
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John Richard

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:11 pm

Jean Claude wrote:If everything that was said and written could help you make your decision, that's good news.

Makes us a feedback (and a benchmark) with your future configuration and your workflow. It will be a testimony to share for all. :)


That is a FANTASTIC idea!
We all don't have access to a facility like Phillips Garage or the specialty turnkey builders to run side by side tests of machines with exactly the same components except for the 2 components being evaluated.

But we DO each have a machine running Resolve.
If we had access to a test battery of very source files and list of specific Resolve functions to have each of our workstations run on these various source files, and then a location to post the benchmark results, vundabah! That would keep folks up to date with factual hardware decisions. It would also alleviate BM from the horrendous time/cost of keeping up with configuration guides. They could then instead merely cull the results, categorize and automate their posting somewhere.

Additionally it might provide help to BM with optimizing their software as well.

I know there was the "Candle Test" somewhere. But your idea builds upon this.

Great idea!
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Jean Claude

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:16 pm

John Richard wrote:
Jean Claude wrote:If everything that was said and written could help you make your decision, that's good news.

Makes us a feedback (and a benchmark) with your future configuration and your workflow. It will be a testimony to share for all. :)


That is a FANTASTIC idea!
We all don't have access to a facility like Phillips Garage or the specialty turnkey builders to run side by side tests of machines with exactly the same components except for the 2 components being evaluated.

But we DO each have a machine running Resolve.
If we had access to a test battery of very source files and list of specific Resolve functions to have each of our workstations run on these various source files, and then a location to post the benchmark results, vundabah! That would keep folks up to date with factual hardware decisions. It would also alleviate BM from the horrendous time/cost of keeping up with configuration guides. They could then instead merely cull the results, categorize and automate their posting somewhere.

Additionally it might provide help to BM with optimizing their software as well.

I know there was the "Candle Test" somewhere. But your idea builds upon this.

Great idea!


here. OK it is not new and in 1080p but so far it still serves. One day it will be nice to update it in 4K but it takes time and will.
http://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.ph ... mark.3718/
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
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John Richard

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:24 pm

Dan Sherman wrote:
Dermot Shane wrote:Dan, maybe try to put what i have in my z820 today into a 40 lane MB;
dual slot width GPU
dual slot width GPU
dual slot width BMD 4k i/o
single slot width Lsi RAID hba
single slot width Tbolt2 hba
single slot width AJA i/o

and then keep it all cool enough to render a 4k DCDM for 26 hours with the proc's and GPU's at 100%.... and absolutly zero failures / render errors / flash frames



That is what you need for your very specific work flow, not everyone has your workflow and hardware requirements. Look past your workflow and consider what others might need to do.


Exactly Dan. Thanks to these 2 recent threads on current hardware, I believe a lot of people have learned to focus on their average project type to make hardware decisions with the budgets they have. Not everyone has been lucky or talented enough to earn a spot making a living in the high res feature length arena. But most of us are now lucky enough to be able to spend our upgrade budgets due to advances/changes in hardware.

In 2008 we dropped $17k on a MacPro 3.1 dual Xeon, 16Gb Ram, Dulce ProDQ 8TB Raid, Blackmagic Multibridge Pro2, nVidia Quadro for Mac 2Gb. Really liking the choices today for what we do.
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:26 pm

i think if you are gradeing enough work to make a ROI on a 10k workstation reality, then likely you will need a varaition of most, if not all of the cards i'm useing... the rest of the room will cost at least 3x cost of the machine anyway

if you are editing / gradeing HD & web, and can see an ROI of 2-3k as many here seem to do, then you don't need dual GPU's a single rx480 will do well enough, likewise the throughput of a SAS RAID array is not needed, a USB3/eSATA card and cheap cage will serve well enough

stlll mirrored SSD boot drives and enough RAM to use media management is a basic underpinning... i can see making the compromises needed with a i7 if the demands on the system fit the tools on offer on any given day

i can look past my needs to see other's - what i can't see is using an i7 with only 40 lanes, crammed slots, wimpy PSU & unknown airflow / cooling for highrez long form
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Jean Claude

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 5:43 pm

My philosophy: it is necessary to find "shoe to his foot" otherwise it is difficult to walk with ease. :)
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 6:02 pm

In 2008 we dropped $17k on a MacPro 3.1 dual Xeon, 16Gb Ram, Dulce ProDQ 8TB Raid, Blackmagic Multibridge Pro2, nVidia Quadro for Mac 2Gb. Really liking the choices today for what we do.

in the spring of 2008 i dropped 16k on a xw8600, dual quad xeon's, 16gig ram, Atto ULD5 raid card, Avid 12 x 300gig disk scsi raid, Aja i/o, Nvidia 3850,

that machine now has a k2200, and LsiSAS RAID& SanDigital 8x 2Tb cage and 64 gig RAM.. billed significantly mroe thant the orignal cost of that machine last year alone, mostly comercials and title seq's, running Avid|DS on it.

It's been trouble free for nearly 9 years now, and made it's ROI before the first year was out, added another 4k in hardware as the years rolled on, it's been a very cost effective relaible sledgehammer, likely will be biling more that it's orignal cost next year too
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Dan Sherman

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 6:36 pm

My daily work isn't relevant to video, but in 2008 these are what I worked with regularly (64 processor units). They connected to a multi PB Oracle database & where used to calculate cell phone bills for one of the major carriers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Superdome
X99-A II, 6850K 4.2 GHz, GTX 1070 FE (431.36), DDR4-2400 CL12-14-14 4x8 GB
Win 10 Pro 1809, Resolve Studio 16.1.0b.017
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Jean Claude

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 6:49 pm

I find it really interesting that different origins converges towards this forum! Wow (thanks! Any experience is good to share!)
"Saying it is good, but doing it is better! "
Win10-1809 | Resolve Studio V16.1 | Fusion Studio V16.1 | Decklink 4K Extreme 6G | RTX 2080Ti 431.86 NSD driver! |
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Dermot Shane

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostMon Jan 16, 2017 7:15 pm

in 1994 i was driving this bad boy;
Image
finishing this show;

i composited, final graded, finished every shot in that intro, one shot alone has 384 layers btw.. that Onyx was working hard.... think my current MBP has more horespower now tho....

i also had a room that looked a bit like this;
Image
Abeakas A84+/ A57 / 6 x A66 /Axial2020 / 4 x BTS D1's.. combined with the Onyx to make the z840 of 1994....

amazing, even the wx8600 of 2008 running DS was amazing when you look at the price tag of that lot...
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Paul Willis

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostTue Jan 17, 2017 2:38 pm

Dermot Shane wrote:in 1994 i was driving this bad boy;

finishing this show;

i composited, final graded, finished every shot in that intro, one shot alone has 384 layers btw.. that Onyx was working hard.... think my current MBP has more horespower now tho....




Oh man, I totally forgot about that show! I would have been 12 when I last saw it.
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Eirik Heim

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Re: Switch from mac.New win edit/grade desktop. Thoughts? sp

PostTue Jan 17, 2017 8:46 pm

What I will be doing with my new windows machine:

- Edit 6-8k Red Epic W footage mainly in Premiere, maybe Resolve instead if the playback is smooth. Guess it should be, but it is only smooth in premiere on my Mac Pro as it is now.
- Grade Red Epic W footage in Davinci Resolve.
- Length will vary from 5 minutes, to tv shows of 40 - 60 minutes, documentaries around 60 minutes.
- Some music videos and shorts that are from 5 - 25 minutes.

I will also be editing my stills, some audio in audition when necessary and sometimes som light motion graphics in AE/Fusion. For fun, maybe some 3d. Everything can handle the last stuff I mention well.
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