12G Optical Fiber SFP

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Alan Cohn

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12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostFri Jun 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Is there an optical fiber SFP out there that can handle 12G?

The Studio Camera 4K and Talkback Converter 4K both claim to be 12G fiber capable. Is there an SFP that can carry it?

For context, we need a way to run 2160p59.94 over a long distance. Right now we can run 12G > Teranex Mini > Quad 3G SDI > Studio Talkback to Fiber > Quad 3G SDI > Decklink 4K Extreme 12G with quad SDI mezzanine card.

That's WAY too complicated I think you will agree.
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rick.lang

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostWed Jun 22, 2016 5:46 am

Have you asked Corning Glass?


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AdrianEaton

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostSat Jul 16, 2016 3:04 pm

rick.lang wrote:Have you asked Corning Glass?

The limitation is not in the glass fiber, but in the transceiver modules. It's not like this technology doesn't exist either. 16Gbit SFP modules are seen in other applications, but they are not cheap.

I can't speak for BM, but it's probable that a 12G SFP can't hit the price point for it to be a viable product at the moment. Would you be happy paying $600-$1000 for each SFP (you would need two per camera, one for the camera, the other for the Talkback Converter).
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostMon Jul 18, 2016 6:18 pm

You will need "special" video sfp's ( pathological pattern test compatible)

Here is a Tranceiver you probabbly could use.. (keep in mind they get hotter then normal 3G versions.. So you might consider to cool the Talkback converter better ;)

https://www.embrionix.com/product/EB12LCRT-MM-P13F

Aja 12G module.. Only RX or only TX.. NO Trancievers So no return video and control, tally, talkback
445 dollars a piece
http://www.markertek.com/product/aja-fi ... ingle-mode

i could not find more vendors in 30 minutes.. So they are still extremely rare.. And thats why BMD doesn't have them in there sales yet because it's still very expensive..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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AdrianEaton

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostMon Jul 18, 2016 8:57 pm

Wow, seems odd they are taking the approach of using both fibers for one way transmission.

In Ethernet applications you can get 25G SFPs, that are both RX and TX. FTLF1436P3BCL (you will have to Google as this forum won't allow me to post links) is capable of 25 Gbit on each fiber (singlemode LC), which should be more than capable of up to 24G video.

Could an Ethernet SFP be used for video? I've heard people use FibreChanel SFPs for Ethernet, and visa versa so assumed SFPs were interchangeable (Video, Ethernet and FC all conform to the SFP+ standard).
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostMon Jul 18, 2016 10:12 pm

Using network SFP's can work BUT it can occuer that you have a lot of issues with the signal...

Check:
What is 3G-SDI Pathological Patterns?
SDI Proving Ground(also called Pathological Patterns) is a whole test signal, thus it must be done during blackout. SDI proving ground signal is difficult to handle by serial digital system, and significant to check the system performance. Regularly SDI Proving Ground contains the richest low-frequency energy which statistically happens one per frame. One component of SDI proving ground is, 19 zeros in a sequence, followed by a one (or 19 ones followed by a zero), can be used to test the working condition of equalizer. This sequence produces vast DC component to strengthen the analog ability of equipment and transmission system processing signal. The test signal appears with purple background on the top of the image display. The another component of SDI Proving Ground signal is used to check the phase lock loop performance. It is an unusual signal sequence, consists of 20 zeros followed by 20 ones. It has minimum zero crossing point used for clock extraction. This signal appears with Grey background on the bottom of the image display. Pathological Patterns test is also an important indicator of video SFP modules.

Image

Data (Network) sfp's have issues when sending this data trough them.. They are not build for long bursts of zero's or ones. The moment an SFP breaks on pathological pattern you will see black or coloured stripes in your video as glitches.. Pathological patterns are a Stress test to test your signal path..
I don't say it can't work.. but it is not recomended as it can get you a lot of errors in the video signal.. :roll:

Thats why we design our fiber converters with video SFP's only..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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AdrianEaton

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostTue Jul 19, 2016 2:00 am

Ah, thanks for the detailed reply. It makes perfect sense. Although as a software engineer my first reaction would be to apply lossless data compression to eliminate the long bursts of 0s or 1s (presumably the authors of the standards want to avoid any data processing).
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostTue Jul 19, 2016 7:18 am

It is raw video data. Processing means delay. And delay is what the broadcast world does not want.

This is the standard. It is set on paper by the SMPTE organisation and is build to set a standard across all broadcast engineering companies to have compatibility between gear.

Lossless compresion Will cost a little bit of time. While it is lossless it is a compresion. And it Will cost more to have a processor to do the compresion / decompression.

Video sfp's are the answer. But 12G versions are rarely seen at this moment. 12G has become big since BMD came with 12G gear. As the 12G was no official approved standard yet. But it is Getting more and more implemented these days. A long time there was only 1 company producing drivers and receivers for 12G. Macom But since 2 months there is another manifacturer making chips for 12G. So wait and see. In 2 years 12G Will be seen on more gear....

In this race BMD has walked in front with there 4K gear. Almost no company adopted 12G yet. If they do 4K over sdi they use 4x 3Gsdi in quadrant mode. Which is another standard that has been longer there.

Just wait and see. But give it time as the world of 4K needs time to do it right.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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johnhyatt

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostWed Feb 01, 2017 2:16 pm

I found this thread very useful. Thanks for posting.

I tested the 12G SFPs from ShieldRock with their extenders and the Blackmagic Teranex AV and SmartView 4K. They worked fine with single mode fiber running over 150ft. I'll be getting a 500ft reel to test out in a few weeks, but ShieldRock said they would work over 1km of SM... Canadians and their metric system.

link: shieldrock.com

It's nice they have the half-price single transmit and receive options to save some money.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostWed Feb 01, 2017 9:10 pm

Thank you for confirming this.. 445 for a Tranceiver SFP is pretty steep i think.. But hey it's 4K right.. :lol:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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johnhyatt

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 4:07 pm

This is what I understand on pricing, which is in-line with the IT world's 10GigE SFPs also.

Single Mode 10:
Usually running above 1000nm means the transceivers need to have a laser diode inside, which are expensive. The nice part here is less "good" glass in the long cables, so you save some money there (eg. 9 micron).

Multi Mode:
Wider wavelengths mean that a simple LED can be used in the transceiver to keep costs down. The wider waves means that more "good" glass is needed in the long cable, so that's where you pay more (eg. 60 micron).

I haven't seen any multi-mode support above 6G, so it looks like we're stuck with SM for now for 12G.

If anybody finds any multi-mode 12G SFPs, it would be good to see how long the cable reach is? I suspect only a few hundred meters?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 9:52 pm

johnhyatt wrote:I haven't seen any multi-mode support above 6G, so it looks like we're stuck with SM for now for 12G.

If anybody finds any multi-mode 12G SFPs, it would be good to see how long the cable reach is? I suspect only a few hundred meters?

Well Multimode has always been for a few hunderd meters.. If you need to make long distances or buy new fiber go for SingleMode right away..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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johnhyatt

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostTue Feb 14, 2017 6:17 pm

Update: Tested the Shieldrock transceiver with 1000m of single mode fiber (LC to LC)

Test:
- Sent pathological pattern from MacBook Pro, (2160p) into the HDMI 2.0 input of the Teranex AV.
- 12G transceiver out of Teranex AV into optical to 12G-SDI converter
- 12G-SDI converter into Smartview 4K input
- Worked great!
- Reconnected using Teranex AV 12G-SDI output, into converter's 12G-SDI input
- 12G optical out of converter into Teranex optical input
- Smartview 4K attached to 12G-SDI output
- Worked great!

Side note, using Photoshop to create pathological image:
YCbCr (198, 300, 300) to RGB (202, 23, 229) Pink/Purple
YCbCr (110, 200, 200) to RGB (61, 61, 61) Grey
Saved uncompressed, so the single frame image was 32MB.

Can someone double check those conversion numbers?

If I recall there is a way to capture the input on the Teranex AV, maybe I will try that next time so I don't need the MBP hooked up everytime I need to test a cable! ;)
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostTue Feb 14, 2017 7:57 pm

There is a framegrab on the teranex av. And you can store a frame for each resolution. So for 4K you van save a different one than for hd.

About the color conversions not Sure.. i use a decimator MD-Cross which has a pathelogical pattern in their test patten generator.

So good results!!

Did you test shieldrock converter to teranex av?? Probabbly does work.. as both are raw sdi stream
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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johnhyatt

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Re: 12G Optical Fiber SFP

PostWed Feb 15, 2017 4:54 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Did you test shieldrock converter to teranex av?? Probabbly does work.. as both are raw sdi stream


Okay, I'll try the screen grab, I'm really liking all these features on the Teranex AV.

Yes, the "TWELVETXRX" from Shieldrock works with the Teranex AV. I've tested 12G, 6G, 3G, HD, and even SD modes with success in both TX/RX directions. I haven't tested the single TX or single RX versions, but am guessing they are basically identical just with the relative components removed.

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