Screen Flickering after Firmware 1.3 Update

Just updated the firmware on our BMCC EF to 1.3. After the update had finished installing the screen began to flicker. The flicker is at a high frequency, like the display is pulsing. It appears to be worse at 180 degree shutter and higher.

Wondering if anyone else has seen this same issue. Camera appears to function normally and the battery is fully charged. Did a search of the forum but didn't find any info.

Thanks!

did it flicker only on install or afterwards also when you power off and on ?

Flicker started when the install was completed. Powered on and off several times and still had the flicker.

Even in the menu, it looks like scan lines on the top and bottom of the screen.

Flickering after an Update is normal and part of the process.
Usually it goes away after a few minutes when you leaver her on.

I'll leave it on and see what happens.

Thanks for the tip!

I must admit I haven't updated my cams to 1.3; I want progressive output on the SDI port for my shuttles. Is it possible the interlaced SDI output modification is responsible for the flickering ? I find it quite surprising that a firmware update causes this... and even more surprising that it stops after being left on for a while?!?

It implies that for the flickering to stop, something has to change in the software/firmware on the device while it's being left on ? What is it doing ?

I must admit I haven't updated my cams to 1.3; I want progressive output on the SDI port for my shuttles. Is it possible the interlaced SDI output modification is responsible for the flickering ? I find it quite surprising that a firmware update causes this... and even more surprising that it stops after being left on for a while?!?

It implies that for the flickering to stop, something has to change in the software/firmware on the device while it's being left on ? What is it doing ?

I don't personally know what causes the flicker (I'm not a developer myself), but it's documented in the Readme notes:

Before installing the software, we recommend that you run "Uninstall Blackmagic Cinema Camera" first.

After loading the software on the camera, you may notice a slight flickering on the built-in LCD screen. This is normal and expected behaviour. The flickering will go away after a few minutes of operation.

Hey Christine

Thanks for pointing that out @ the readme notes. I'd love to know why it flickers... just for the sake of knowing the technical aspects of it (curious), but I realise that'd probably require additional information on the architecture of your product and obviously that's out of bounds.

And once again, it's unlikely that you'll respond, but could they please look into making the format of the SDI output switchable (so that a person can choose to output progressive without overlays, I'm intending on running the output to Shuttle 2s). I'm sure others have asked that.

Thanks

[Kristian Lam]

Hi

And once again, it's unlikely that you'll respond, but could they please look into making the format of the SDI output switchable (so that a person can choose to output progressive without overlays, I'm intending on running the output to Shuttle 2s). I'm sure others have asked that.

Hi Aaron,

If you need the progressive output from the camera, you can always run v1.2.1 that is available on our website. Just look in the drivers archive section.

Hi

And once again, it's unlikely that you'll respond, but could they please look into making the format of the SDI output switchable (so that a person can choose to output progressive without overlays, I'm intending on running the output to Shuttle 2s). I'm sure others have asked that.

Hi Aaron,

If you need the progressive output from the camera, you can always run v1.2.1 that is available on our website. Just look in the drivers archive section.

Hi Kristian,

is the interlaced "true" interlaced 50i with firmware 1.3 or "progressive segmented frame" (PSF)? Would be important to know!

Thank you

If it was true 50i it would dictate that the camera is capturing interlaced frames... which for this type of product would be catastrophic...

kristian, when can we expect the next firmware update?

Just to be clear...
If I want the progressive output in the future, I am stuck with the 1.2.1 firmware, just because 1.3 and all above will have this unwanted interlaced output?
Can we just finally get at least the audio meters please? Can you just PLEASE focus on features we really need?

Hi Aaron,

If you need the progressive output from the camera, you can always run v1.2.1 that is available on our website. Just look in the drivers archive section.

I agree, the camera is amazing, but the lack of audio meters and now the forced interlaced output on the SDI port is surprising.

To use the BMC for audio recording I'm intending on using a field mixer with VU meters... it can generate a tone, so I'll set that tone to 0 VU and then I'll check the digital level on Convergent Design Nanoflash connected via SDI lol... or just use an external recorder.

Very boring firmware update!!!
please put simple vu!!! and space remaining!

Just to be clear...
If I want the progressive output in the future, I am stuck with the 1.2.1 firmware, just because 1.3 and all above will have this unwanted interlaced output?
Can we just finally get at least the audio meters please? Can you just PLEASE focus on features we really need?

Hi Aaron,

If you need the progressive output from the camera, you can always run v1.2.1 that is available on our website. Just look in the drivers archive section.

Milan, who is the WE you speak of? Lots of people NEED the interlaced output, just not you.

To clarify, this firmware switches you SDI output to interlaced, only when running 25 and 29.97 (two frame rates associated with TV/video recording, not film)...and with overlays off. If you're running 24, 23.98, or 30, the output is still progressive, it's not changed.

If the "interlaced" is PSF there should be nö problem: 50psf is just like 25p in a 50i wraper. You just have to interpret it as 25p in the editing.

Sorry Sean that I used this word. I really apologize that I've confused you.
Of course ... by "WE" I meant ME and my grandma and my grandpa, and I can't forget the friends of my grandpa and grandma. We all are a big family and we live in Europe (25p).

I really don't care about the thousands of other users who want audio levels, SSD format, SSD storage info ...
I am only afraid of my grandma's health, she is 89. How should I tell her, she gets an interlaced 50i SDI output for her CINEMA camera? She is still quite smart, so she will ask me if she can switch it of. And my: "NO" will probably make her very sick... I still hiding the fact, that next week after we bought BMC, Blackmagic introduced the production camera. If she finds this out, I will tell her, that this camera will have probably an interlaced output too, so there is a big chance she will calm down in a few minutes.

So this is how it goes home right now. Looking forward to shot my grandma's 90 birthday soon. If another great feature will not make her worse.

Milan, who is the WE you speak of? Lots of people NEED the interlaced output, just not you.
To clarify, this firmware switches you SDI output to interlaced, only when running 25 and 29.97 (two frame rates associated with TV/video recording, not film)...and with overlays off. If you're running 24, 23.98, or 30, the output is still progressive, it's not changed.

+1 for progressive output at 25 frames per.
I really don't want interlaced.

Just to be clear...
If I want the progressive output in the future, I am stuck with the 1.2.1 firmware, just because 1.3 and all above will have this unwanted interlaced output?
Can we just finally get at least the audio meters please? Can you just PLEASE focus on features we really need?

Hi Aaron,

If you need the progressive output from the camera, you can always run v1.2.1 that is available on our website. Just look in the drivers archive section.

Milan, who is the WE you speak of? Lots of people NEED the interlaced output, just not you.

To clarify, this firmware switches you SDI output to interlaced, only when running 25 and 29.97 (two frame rates associated with TV/video recording, not film)...and with overlays off. If you're running 24, 23.98, or 30, the output is still progressive, it's not changed.

You are wrong!!
Most film productions in Europe are shoot at 25p.. then if they ever get to ntsc land, sound is "armonized" (not sure if you use this term) and 25p image is converted to 24p.. just like we convert 24p to 25 for tv

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

"In the motion picture industry, where traditional film stock is used, the industry standard filming and projection formats are 24 frames per second. Historically, 25fps was used in some European countries."

"Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates."

Once more blackmagic shows no interest about Europe

anyway... Wasn´t this a cinema camera??.. why do we need 50i on a cinema camera???

Thay said MFT doesn´t need active mount because the camera is ment for cinema.. and now.. somehow it is becoming a tv camera???
please.. could blackmagic explain their intentions.. i see no reason why would someone want a tv camera like this
also.. next firmware just remember things like SUN problem.. this is no good for a cinema camera, a tv camera or a handicam

What I don't understand is that if its obviously switchable... Why not make it a choice you can turn on or off?

You are wrong!!
Most film productions in Europe are shoot at 25p.. then if they ever get to ntsc land, sound is "armonized" (not sure if you use this term) and 25p image is converted to 24p.. just like we convert 24p to 25 for tv

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

"In the motion picture industry, where traditional film stock is used, the industry standard filming and projection formats are 24 frames per second. Historically, 25fps was used in some European countries."

"Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates."

Once more blackmagic shows no interest about Europe

anyway... Wasn´t this a cinema camera??.. why do we need 50i on a cinema camera???

Thay said MFT doesn´t need active mount because the camera is ment for cinema.. and now.. somehow it is becoming a tv camera???
please.. could blackmagic explain their intentions.. i see no reason why would someone want a tv camera like this
also.. next firmware just remember things like SUN problem.. this is no good for a cinema camera, a tv camera or a handicam

Easy there Fulgencio....

While I don't know ALL the networks in Europe, BBC takes in 1080i25 (visually the same as 720p50). Although they now want everyone to move to P, it is currently still accepted for broadcast. North America is pretty much 100% interlaced with 29.97 being the standard frame rate, like I said.

As for the switch...I agree it would be much more user friendly to let people choose. I suspect since it's the same firmware for all 3 cameras, this change is more targeted to the users of the production camera.

sean

You are wrong!!
Most film productions in Europe are shoot at 25p.. then if they ever get to ntsc land, sound is "armonized" (not sure if you use this term) and 25p image is converted to 24p.. just like we convert 24p to 25 for tv

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

"In the motion picture industry, where traditional film stock is used, the industry standard filming and projection formats are 24 frames per second. Historically, 25fps was used in some European countries."

"Film and Television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates."

Once more blackmagic shows no interest about Europe

anyway... Wasn´t this a cinema camera??.. why do we need 50i on a cinema camera???

Thay said MFT doesn´t need active mount because the camera is ment for cinema.. and now.. somehow it is becoming a tv camera???
please.. could blackmagic explain their intentions.. i see no reason why would someone want a tv camera like this
also.. next firmware just remember things like SUN problem.. this is no good for a cinema camera, a tv camera or a handicam

Easy there Fulgencio....

While I don't know ALL the networks in Europe, BBC takes in 1080i25 (visually the same as 720p50). Although they now want everyone to move to P, it is currently still accepted for broadcast. North America is pretty much 100% interlaced with 29.97 being the standard frame rate, like I said.

As for the switch...I agree it would be much more user friendly to let people choose. I suspect since it's the same firmware for all 3 cameras, this change is more targeted to the users of the production camera.

sean

sorry Sean.. it was not a personal attack to you.. just one gets tired of how blackmagic does not care at all about european filmmakers

i suspect this firmware update is not targeted for production camera, since it is not out yet.. it would not make a lot of sense to release a firmware update for a camera that does not exist

as you say.. BBC can take interlaced but encourages people to change to progresive.. so what´s the point about interlacing 25p¿?

i believe many mistakes and issues blackmagic is facing (in fact it is us who suffer it) is because they have no experience at all on being in a film set.. and they did not care about contacting professionals who would have told them about mount options according to sensor sizes, about the importance of evf, about the how useless their screen is for exteriors.. etc... and they keep going on and on without listening to advises from cinematographers
i don´t think it is a wise move for a company
i guess they talked to colorists before changing things in davinci
i guees they also talked to colorists before building their cameras.. instead of talking to D.O.Ps

Has anyone checked what the output actually is?

I haven't done any scientific tests, but I have a SmallHD AC7 hooked up to the camera, and I can't really notice any difference between SDI Overlays set to Off versus Status when shooting at 25fps. The AC7 doesn't actually tell you what kind of signal it's getting - so I'm not sure if it's PsF or not. Next time I have a chance, I'll hook it up to a broadcast monitor and see what the SDI signal ACTUALLY is.

One possibility is that the camera is actually outputting 1080sf25 and my SmallHD is automatically "translating" it to a progressive image based on the VPID, which would explain why it doesn't look any different. If this is the case, then there's not really any issue at all I guess! Win, win - and we get a sneaky audio fix!

u.. just one gets tired of how blackmagic does not care at all about european filmmakers

LOL, if you want to rumble, get your facts straight first.

As if Europe is the only 50 HZ region.
Heck even Australia is (as most of the world) a 50HZ country.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... uenzen.svg

And they take care not about this o that country, but they took care about folks in the broadcast business (especially live production), which is still mostly interlaced.

For you as a filmmaker it makes absolutely no difference, what the SDI output is - the image of your offboard monitor looks the same, and if you absolutely have to, you can always switch, by turning the overlay on and off.

i believe many mistakes and issues blackmagic is facing (in fact it is us who suffer it) is because they have no experience at all on being in a film set.. and they did not care about contacting professionals who would have told them about mount options according to sensor sizes, about the importance of evf, about the how useless their screen is for exteriors.. etc... and they keep going on and on without listening to advises from cinematographers
i don´t think it is a wise move for a company
i guess they talked to colorists before changing things in davinci
i guees they also talked to colorists before building their cameras.. instead of talking to D.O.Ps

Just stepping in to clarify this point, as it's incorrect. Several cinematographers and DoPs are beta testers for our cameras and our engineering team takes their feedback very seriously. John Brawley, for example, just released footage from his Pocket Cinema Camera a couple days ago.

i believe many mistakes and issues blackmagic is facing (in fact it is us who suffer it) is because they have no experience at all on being in a film set.. and they did not care about contacting professionals who would have told them about mount options according to sensor sizes, about the importance of evf, about the how useless their screen is for exteriors.. etc... and they keep going on and on without listening to advises from cinematographers
i don´t think it is a wise move for a company
i guess they talked to colorists before changing things in davinci
i guees they also talked to colorists before building their cameras.. instead of talking to D.O.Ps

Just stepping in to clarify this point, as it's incorrect. Several cinematographers and DoPs are beta testers for our cameras and our engineering team takes their feedback very seriously. John Brawley, for example, just released footage from his Pocket Cinema Camera a couple days ago.

Beta tester is someone who tries a product that´s already designed and made
Their comments can only change firmware.. if they change anything
What i mean (and think my comment was quite clear on this) is that Blackmagic did not contact DOPs before designing the camera to know their needs.

No beta tester is ever going to say.. "hey.. start all over again.. your concept is simply wrong"

One of your famous beta testers.. Philip Bloom wrote about many of these problems 8 months ago
So.. the camera was already designed and the mess was already done
Did anything change after Philip wrote this??

In fact many of this issues like reflective non-articulated screen, terrible ergonomics, no evf... are still present in the new cameras blackmagic has just announce.. soo.. is blackmagic listening??

Here is a link to what Philip wrote looong time ago

http://philipbloom.net/2012/09/05/bmd/

"Canon lens mount not ideal for this size sensor"
"Terrible ergonomics"
"Screen too reflective"

I'll leave it on and see what happens.

Thanks for the tip!

Did you ever sort this out Sean? I would like to do a update but I am concerned with your issue? Let us know if you have a moment. Thanks again

In fact many of this issues like reflective non-articulated screen, terrible ergonomics, no evf... are still present in the new cameras blackmagic has just announce.. soo.. is blackmagic listening??

Here is a link to what Philip wrote looong time ago

http://philipbloom.net/2012/09/05/bmd/

"Canon lens mount not ideal for this size sensor"
"Terrible ergonomics"
"Screen too reflective"

So you're a camera designer ? Do you have a background in manufacturing? Writing software ?

I'm going to guess no. Why the hell do you think a DOP would know what decisions will affect the price or manufactu-ability of a product ?

Just because you can point to what YOU see as an issue, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't find it an issue to the same degree that you will.

Just because you can point out an issue, doesn't mean the BMD don't make an informed decision to deign a product with a compromise in order to keep the product simple to manufacture or at a certain price point. Most of their decisions are made being well aware of the compromise and what people want.

Many of the rationales you continue to bring up have already been explained.

As much as you want to cry about the sensor size, that fact remains that they chose the best sensor for what THEY wanted to do. They chose a sensor that they could get a great high dynamic range image from. Super 35 sensors are actually very few and far between ? I'm sure you already know this from your experience in camera design and sensor design.

If you want those kinds of feature then this isn't your camera. Why don't you get yourself a C300 ?

I think the fact that so many have bought what Blackmagic actually stated they wanted to do says you're in a minority.

They said they wanted to make a very high dynamic range RAW uncompressed video camera for 3k. My friend that's exactly what they said they would do.

I think they have shown they listen because I haven't seen anyone else make a camera like it for the price nor have we seen even a year later, anyone else make anything like it, despite everyone predicting this NAB would be the time everyone would show BMD how it's really done.

Clearly, it's not something that's easy to do for the price or yeah, we would have seen some competition.

When making something as crazy low cost as this camera, there are bound to be compromises. Make an informed decision. Are the compromises too much for you ? t hen use something that doesn't compromise your vision.

You know it's just a camera right ? A cheap high dynamic range RAW uncompressed camera that plenty of people seem to have no trouble working around it's shortcomings.

You're really sounding like a bit of a shrill to be honest. It's great that you're participating in BMD's own forum but it must take a lot of effort to be constantly making the same point over and over again. Once again you've hijacked a thread that has nothing to do with the issues you want to soap box about. Why don't you start yet another thread and at least keep this one on topic.

If cinematographers were in charge you'd just end up with The Homer

http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Homer

jb

If cinematographers were in charge you'd just end up with The Homer

Come on John... seriously... who wouldn't want a car with two bubble domes, an engine sound that causes people to think "the world's coming to an end", three horns, gigantic cup-holders and shag carpeting! Sounds amazing to me.

Now excuse me whilst I go and add some tail fins to my BMC.

In fact many of this issues like reflective non-articulated screen, terrible ergonomics, no evf... are still present in the new cameras blackmagic has just announce.. soo.. is blackmagic listening??

Here is a link to what Philip wrote looong time ago

http://philipbloom.net/2012/09/05/bmd/

"Canon lens mount not ideal for this size sensor"
"Terrible ergonomics"
"Screen too reflective"

If you want those kinds of feature then this isn't your camera. Why don't you get yourself a C300 ?
...

jb

+1

I live in Europe. I love this camera. I have no issue with the compromises. I know what I'm getting for my money. I love the images coming out of it and I'm happy to work around any of the quirks.

Just shot a short film about a wooden surfboard maker over 2 days in Cape Town and the footage is so beautiful.

Took ages to back up the 1.35TB of data but I know that would be the case and planned for it.

If you don't like the camera, simply buy something else. No one is forcing you to buy it.

Interlaced out of the SDI is not an issue. What are you using it for? Recording backup? The camera is shooting progressive to the internal SSD and from what I can tell the SDI signal is PsF (Progressive in an interlaced file). So where is the issue?

Oh boy....

all those people that act like BM owns them their personal pipedream camera for 3000 bucks.

I mean, do you even realize what we are witnessing?
Before last years NAB, everyone in the industry would have laughed at you, just thinking about a camera that does, what the BMC does for the money.

The BMC is as close as you can get to an Alexa for a fraction of the price, so every Joe Shmuck can afford one - but instead of being happy and deeply grateful for getting such a tool, they lament about "missing" features, instead of getting their butt out and shoot something great.

Well said Frank.

In fact many of this issues like reflective non-articulated screen, terrible ergonomics, no evf... are still present in the new cameras blackmagic has just announce.. soo.. is blackmagic listening??

Here is a link to what Philip wrote looong time ago

http://philipbloom.net/2012/09/05/bmd/

"Canon lens mount not ideal for this size sensor"
"Terrible ergonomics"
"Screen too reflective"

If you want those kinds of feature then this isn't your camera. Why don't you get yourself a C300 ?
...

jb

+1

I live in Europe. I love this camera. I have no issue with the compromises. I know what I'm getting for my money. I love the images coming out of it and I'm happy to work around any of the quirks.

Just shot a short film about a wooden surfboard maker over 2 days in Cape Town and the footage is so beautiful.

Took ages to back up the 1.35TB of data but I know that would be the case and planned for it.

If you don't like the camera, simply buy something else. No one is forcing you to buy it.

Interlaced out of the SDI is not an issue. What are you using it for? Recording backup? The camera is shooting progressive to the internal SSD and from what I can tell the SDI signal is PsF (Progressive in an interlaced file). So where is the issue?

I live in Europe and WOULD love my camera
but i´m right now shooting with a RED ONE from another company and having to share my profits because Blackmagic does not give me what they promised

Oh boy....

all those people that act like BM owns them their personal pipedream camera for 3000 bucks.

I mean, do you even realize what we are witnessing?
Before last years NAB, everyone in the industry would have laughed at you, just thinking about a camera that does, what the BMC does for the money.

The BMC is as close as you can get to an Alexa for a fraction of the price, so every Joe Shmuck can afford one - but instead of being happy and deeply grateful for getting such a tool, they lament about "missing" features, instead of getting their butt out and shoot something great.

What i´m witnessing is a company who lies to film professional
a company that doesn´t give any information about what´s going on

and some smart LOL guys who defend it..
WHY DO YOU DEFEND IT??
because you have a MFT beta for yourself
Oh Boy!!! What am i witnessing!!!

[
WHY DO YOU DEFEND IT??
because you have a MFT beta for yourself

Well, if you say so....

I live in Europe and WOULD love my camera
but i´m right now shooting with a RED ONE from another company and having to share my profits because Blackmagic does not give me what they promised

You've made this comment twice Fulgencio...what "promises" did BM make that they did not keep with the BMCC? (other than shipping in July which really was out of their hands)

I'm honestly asking, because you're the 4th person I've seen who has said something along these lines and I'm unaware of how the camera that was released does not match the camera that was announced at NAB2012?

sean

I live in Europe and WOULD love my camera
but i´m right now shooting with a RED ONE from another company and having to share my profits because Blackmagic does not give me what they promised

You've made this comment twice Fulgencio...what "promises" did BM make that they did not keep with the BMCC? (other than shipping in July which really was out of their hands)

I'm honestly asking, because you're the 4th person I've seen who has said something along these lines and I'm unaware of how the camera that was released does not match the camera that was announced at NAB2012?

sean

Once again.. They said July for canon mount.. and did not make it.. they said december for MFT and did not make it

this is illegal in Europe.. even if it was out of their hands
Is it so hard to understand that this is illegal in Europe?

if it was out of their hands they should sue the company that makes the sensor and get a compensation.. that´s how it goes... or do what they please.. but in no way it changes the fact that they did not give the camera on time.. and this is illegal here

by the way..
sensor problem was reported august 21th
MFT camera was announced september 7th
so they already knew about the sensor problem
why do they announced it for december if there was a known issue?
they decided to make first canon mount.. so this decision made them fail at two announcements instead of just one
if they could not make both, there is a simple solution.. Hire more workers!!
Oh yes.. they probably can´t.. i´m quite sure Mr.Grant drives a second hand car from the 80s and lives in tiny flat.. how could this poor man hire more workers??

problems inside a company should only affect share holder, and partners.. never customers.. that´s what trade laws are for

this is illegal in Europe.. even if it was out of their hands
Is it so hard to understand that this is illegal in Europe?

This is getting ridiculous.
I hope for you, that you are better as DP, than you are as lawyer.
Every judge in Europe would laugh you out of his court.

this is illegal in Europe.. even if it was out of their hands
Is it so hard to understand that this is illegal in Europe?

This is getting ridiculous.
I hope for you, that you are better as DP, than you are as lawyer.
Every judge in Europe would laugh you out of his court.

Can you read Frank?
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-ma ... vertising/
this is the official website of the european commision of justice
do you get to understand this?
that´s means judge!! justice!!
Is there something you can not understand?
mislaeding advertising:
"the conditions of delivery of the goods or provision of the services involved"

some more official info about The Unfair Commercial Practices Directive European Union
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/
there you can even download the specific info in german in case you are having some problems with translation

This is the law. do you need any more info? i will give it to you.. just ask for it frank, don´t be shy
what´s getting ridiculous Frank?
do you find buyers protection law ridiculous?

Actually, this all doesn't apply, you don't do business with BMD, you do business with the local reseller. So if anyone could be sued by you, it would be the resellers.

In Europe, you can usually only sue entities you have a legal relation with or who are direct competitors, so CANON could probably sue BMD.

This is an extract from the downloadble pdf you can find in my previous post
i supose you will find something similar on the german law
as you can see.. besides being against the European Union common law blackmagic´s behaviour is against 3 especific laws from Spain.. i don not know how it goes in Germany, but in Spain a judge does to laugh at law.
I have set in bold letters the part that about delivery, accorded manufactured date, availability..
Somehow i could not find that strange thing you say.."if it is not their fault, but some other supplier, or manufacturer.." or any other similar stuff.. as i told you.. If blackmagic has a problem with a company that supplies sensor they should sue them.. not pass the problem to buyers.
That´s the law
Again.. if you have any more questions or do not understand the law in EU ask.. Don´t be shy!!


Artículo 5. Actos de engaño.

1. Se considera desleal por engañosa cualquier conducta que contenga información falsa o información que, aun siendo veraz, por su contenido o presentación induzca o pueda inducir a error a los destinatarios, siendo susceptible de alterar su comportamiento económico, siempre que incida sobre alguno de los siguientes aspectos:
a) La existencia o la naturaleza del bien o servicio.
b) Las características principales del bien o servicio, tales como su disponibilidad, sus beneficios, sus riesgos, su ejecución, su composición, sus accesorios, el procedimiento y la fecha de su fabricación o suministro, su entrega, su carácter apropiado, su utilización, su cantidad, sus especificaciones, su origen geográfico o comercial o los resultados que pueden esperarse de su utilización, o los resultados y características esenciales de las pruebas o controles efectuados al bien o servicio.

Artículo 18. Publicidad ilícita.

La publicidad considerada ilícita por la Ley General de Publicidad, se reputará desleal.

Artículo 22.
Prácticas señuelo y prácticas promocionales engañosas.
Se considera desleal por engañoso:
1. Realizar una oferta comercial de bienes o servicios a un precio determinado sin revelar la existencia de motivos razonables que hagan pensar al empresario o profesional que dichos bienes o servicios u otros equivalentes no estarán disponibles al precio ofertado durante un período suficiente y en cantidades razonables, teniendo en cuenta el tipo de bien o servicio, el alcance de la publicidad que se le haya dado y el precio de que se trate.

I feel like feeding the troll today .

Ok, here's my take on this:

According to most/all European legislations, you can only sue somebody who breaches an implicit or explicit contract. The point is, that in the case of BMD who do not sell directly to customers, you do not have a contract with BMD. You ordered with and paid a different company, namely the local reseller and entered into a contract with that company. So the contractual entity that is hurting you by not delivering is actually the local reseller.

Now, if you were to sue the local reseller, he could in turn sue BMD. YOU on the other hand can't directly.

Don't know about Spain, but that is pretty standard (except in the US, where the hurdle to sue is somewhat lower).

I feel like feeding the troll today .

Ok, here's my take on this:

According to most/all European legislations, you can only sue somebody who breaches an implicit or explicit contract. The point is, that in the case of BMD who do not sell directly to customers, you do not have a contract with BMD. You ordered with and paid a different company, namely the local reseller and entered into a contract with that company. So the contractual entity that is hurting you by not delivering is actually the local reseller.

Now, if you were to sue the local reseller, he could in turn sue BMD. YOU on the other hand can't directly.

Don't know about Spain, but that is pretty standard (except in the US, where the hurdle to sue is somewhat lower).

I Spain you don´t even have to do a contract (you don´t have to buy) to report an act of misleading advertising.
In fact it is not you who sue the company, but a consumer organizations and the goverment itself.

Sorry if it looks like i´m trolling!
It is not my intention.

So that's why the screen flickers after installing firmware 1.3 as this posts title suggests, well, glad that's out of the way. Ummm, you guys wanna talk about anything else since we're. ;(

Locking this thread for being wildly off topic, and the original question was already answered.