BMPCC4K start shipping

I wasn't making any comment on the level of returns, just correcting your assertion that CVP had received 500 orders when in fact the number is considerably less than half that figure.

Irrespective of the quantities all of the UK retailers had been receiving regular stock on a weekly basis - but that drip feed has dried up across the UK. I don't know why but I am sure BM do. Sadly whilever they remain silent rumours will fester which must affect sales as some customers jump ship to rival brands.

Either BM are so arrogantly confident that demand will remain high they don't care about the bad press... Or the truth would be even more damaging. Either way it's awful PR and does their reputation no good.

Agree completely. I think their silence is not good.

And there are excellent alternative options out there. I'll still wait for the pocket 4k as I've been Sony for many years but really like the detail and colour I see in BM footage. Tempted by the Ursa mini pro but it's been around a while now.

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And there are excellent alternative options out there.

And what exactly are those excellent alternatives?

I can't tell if your serious or not.

Do you define viable alternatives by those in the same price bracket? Or image quality? If its price bracket then I'm not interested in arguing with a fan boy over whatever. But for people who make a living from their cameras then anything under say $20k is generally a nobrainer. There are many cameras with beautiful images that in a blind test you couldnt pick apart.

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Ursa mini pro
Sony F5, FS7
Canon C200, C300

Alternative isnt even the right work since at the moment and likely for months anything but the pocket 4k are the only options.

I had an F5 for a long time and liked the look of the A7s more. Bought one as a B cam and then found I wasn't using the F5 enough. Sold it for another A7s. These days A7R2 but I don't like Sony colour as much as what I see from blackmagic. So I want to try a pocket 4K.

I like the size of the DSLR form but not the photographic buttons. That's why the pocket appeals to me.

Those alternatives may not all shoot Raw but their images look great and they are video cameras with other features too.

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I'm basing it on if a person makes a living from their camera the cheapness of the pocket is a bonus but there are alternatives. Reliable available now alternatives.

If the Ursa mini pro was better in low light I'd be considering that rather than wait but who knows what might come from NAB.

I want the pocket. Still have the preorder and will eventually get my hands on it. Just want some communication from BM so we can make decisions.

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[Kristian Lam]

Hey guys,

Take it easy.

Production ebbs and flows depending on parts availability and factory closures due to holidays etc. There is NO deliberate production halt. The camera is quite popular and we're building as fast as we can.

Hi Kristian. As Senior software engineer can you shed any light on bmraw for the pockets progress?

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Don't care when. Just want to know it Will happen for sure?

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Don't care when. Just want to know it Will happen for sure?

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Me too as that would be quite a bow to add to the 4K's strings.

Ursa mini pro
Sony F5, FS7
Canon C200, C300

Alternative isnt even the right work since at the moment and likely for months anything but the pocket 4k are the only options.

I had an F5 for a long time and liked the look of the A7s more. Bought one as a B cam and then found I wasn't using the F5 enough. Sold it for another A7s. These days A7R2 but I don't like Sony colour as much as what I see from blackmagic. So I want to try a pocket 4K.

I like the size of the DSLR form but not the photographic buttons. That's why the pocket appeals to me.

Those alternatives may not all shoot Raw but their images look great and they are video cameras with other features too.

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I had the ursa mini 4.6k, not the pro, and the c200, I loved both cameras. The c200 honestly doesn't compare to the pocket 4k, unless we're talking about raw, then they are the same. However, canon raw lite is really slow compared to CDNG. And it takes up way more space. I traded in the c200 for the pocket 4k, and let me tell you it's a better option. It has some pro features, like ND and SDI. However, their HDMI port is really nerfed. And their codec is really nerfed. You go from 8bit 4:2:0 to raw. You can get 10bit 4:2:2 but that's by an external recorder. Plus it's only recorded in 2K. Then again the image is still good, but you are limited. Those cameras are two times the price of the pocket 4K, but dont even come with the features that the pocket 4k come with internally, that's the difference between those cameras, besides the ursa mini pro

I ordered the Black Magic Pocket Cinema 4K, and about a grands worth of accessories November 7th.

Unfortunately for myself and lots of other videographers and filmmakers in Ireland, Black Magic have not shipped a single unit to the entire country since early November. The only official Black Magic dealer here (Camerakit) haven't got a single shipment since then.

I've spoken to other videographers (via the Irish Filmmaker Network) who've ordered as far back as early April and are still awaiting their units.

I understand manufacturing delays, especially with the production issues (battery door, battery life, blown out red channel etc) the camera has faced. But this is infuriating. To see folks in the US getting recent orders, when Black Magic can't be bothered shipping any units to Ireland is infuriating. Honestly I would have cancelled my order a month ago, had I not already invested in accessories. It's a really bad look for a company known for production issues and delays. Talking to other people in the video community here, it's turning them off Black Magic products in general, and it's likely to lead to a reduction in use of BM cameras on larger projects for years to come.

Speaking for myself, I've already lost out on a significant amount of work that required a second camera (smaller shooters here very rarely provide an equipment budget), as well as work specifically advertised for BMPCC4K shooters. I was planning to pick up and Ursa Pro later this year, but I'd be extremely reluctant to deal with BM again.

Hey guys,

Take it easy.

Production ebbs and flows depending on parts availability and factory closures due to holidays etc. There is NO deliberate production halt. The camera is quite popular and we're building as fast as we can.

Thanks Kristian, that's a reassuring and welcome response

Hi Kristian. As Senior software engineer can you shed any light on bmraw for the pockets progress?

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He’s the product manager. This is his camera. He’s not a software engineer.

BMD have a policy of not talking about what’s coming. It’s rare that Kristian would weigh in here.

JB

His LinkedIn profile says different but I'm sure you know what's right.

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Ignore that. It doesnt say it now. Or I miss read.

Either way some feedback on BM raw would be nice since its a factor in some of our decisions.

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Hey guys,

Take it easy.

Production ebbs and flows depending on parts availability and factory closures due to holidays etc. There is NO deliberate production halt. The camera is quite popular and we're building as fast as we can.

Hi, Kristian, thank you for the reply here but how you can see, is a lot of people from Europe reporting long delays of the camera. For example I have ordered in two official resellers shops in France and Germany and have received some messages from dealer like: "We don't have received cameras last one month, last two months".
Cheers

Ignore that. It doesnt say it now. Or I miss read.

Either way some feedback on BM raw would be nice since its a factor in some of our decisions.

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You’ve got all the feedback you’re going to get. As I said they don’t really talk about future product till it’s announced officially.

Grant has alluded to this happening and that’s the closest you’ll get to an announcement.

JB

Grant has alluded to this happening and that’s the closest you’ll get to an announcement.

JB

Several BMD reps have been pretty clear that braw IS coming to the Pocket 4K, but they haven't given any timetables for it.

So... whether or not it's coming is pretty certain; the answer is yes. When is an open question though, since BMD isn't going to rush it out before it's ready.

Alluded to bmraw happening? I thought he said it WAS happening?

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It is a work in progress and I expect it will be announced via email and press release just before NAB 2019. Or announced at NAB 2019. Less than 8 weeks.


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FWIW, I ordered my BMPCC 4K on Jan 30 from B&H. I got an email from them after filling out an online survey that says, "the manufacturer is heavily back ordered and this item is not expected to arrive in our warehouse until April 15th. Once this does arrive we will ship the orders promptly."

FWIW, I ordered my BMPCC 4K on Jan 30 from B&H. I got an email from them after filling out an online survey that says, "the manufacturer is heavily back ordered and this item is not expected to arrive in our warehouse until April 15th. Once this does arrive we will ship the orders promptly."

That's interesting. My order in Australia in October was told any week now for a couple of months then in December based on the flow they were getting said they were sure January. I emailed them last week and they suddenly said APRIL... I was in Bangkok last week and enquired there too and they said they expect APRIL.

So what's with April??

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Ordered the BMPCC4K on Jan 7th from Adorama. Just received an email stating it is being shipped today!

Hey guys,

So I ordered a BMPC4k in early December (it was backordered) and as of today, February 12th, B&H tells me they have no information about when it might be available because it's still backordered.

Is there any sense of when the next round of cameras is going to start going to out to resellers? I knew there would be SOME delay but heading into month 3 I'm getting a little antsy.

Thanks!

Hey guys,

So I ordered a BMPC4k in early December (it was backordered) and as of today, February 12th, B&H tells me they have no information about when it might be available because it's still backordered.

Is there any sense of when the next round of cameras is going to start going to out to resellers? I knew there would be SOME delay but heading into month 3 I'm getting a little antsy.

Thanks!

Remember it just not three places selling the pocket 4k, there are a lot of smaller places selling them too. And it’s first come first serve, so they are most likely waiting in que.

Ordered the BMPCC4K on Jan 7th from Adorama. Just received an email stating it is being shipped today!

This has me excited. I ordered on Jan 17th from Adorama. Hoping I'll see mine soon!

Ordered the BMPCC4K on Jan 7th from Adorama. Just received an email stating it is being shipped today!

This has me excited. I ordered on Jan 17th from Adorama. Hoping I'll see mine soon!

May not be. I just ordered my camera today, and called B&H and Adorama. B&H I was behind over 1,000 people, and at Adorama, the guy told me I was behind around 570 people. I decided to order from Tape Central in Columbus, Ohio. They had '0' people waiting, except for me now...

Ordered the BMPCC4K on Jan 7th from Adorama. Just received an email stating it is being shipped today!

This has me excited. I ordered on Jan 17th from Adorama. Hoping I'll see mine soon!

May not be. I just ordered my camera today, and called B&H and Adorama. B&H I was behind over 1,000 people, and at Adorama, the guy told me I was behind around 570 people. I decided to order from Tape Central in Columbus, Ohio. They had '0' people waiting, except for me now...

Wow. Funny, when I asked Adorama last week, they said they couldn't tell me my place in line. Is this camera going to put a lot more indie film makers on the scene? I wonder if Youtube will be flooded with short films made by the BMPCC4K?

Remember it just not three places selling the pocket 4k, there are a lot of smaller places selling them too. And it’s first come first serve, so they are most likely waiting in que.

Yeah, I guess I just assumed a larger reseller would have more stock. I don't mind waiting, just want a sense of how long I'm going to have to wait...

Yeah, I guess I just assumed a larger reseller would have more stock. I don't mind waiting, just want a sense of how long I'm going to have to wait...

The larger resellers get more orders. I don't think anyone's been able to maintain much stock of this camera; they keep getting snapped up.

If those numbers are true I think it's safe to say micro 4/3 will be around a while

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If those numbers are true I think it's safe to say micro 4/3 will be around a while

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I don't think they would lie about the number of orders they told me.. If anything, that would discourage anyone from actually ordering from them. I was a bit shocked. I knew B&H and Adorama would have a backlog of orders, but I never realized it was that many.

This is going to be a huge boost so Davinci Resolve too. I think there was already a decent sized migration to Resolve going on but awareness of how good Resolve is will really increase after that many cameras with Resolve licenses get out there.

Loving Resolve is just a matter of using it and I cant picture someone buying the camera and not trying it.

May not be. I just ordered my camera today, and called B&H and Adorama. B&H I was behind over 1,000 people, and at Adorama, the guy told me I was behind around 570 people. I decided to order from Tape Central in Columbus, Ohio. They had '0' people waiting, except for me now...

So let’s pretend that BMD ship 500 cameras to the US for January.

They send 300 cameras to BH, 150 to ardoma and the rest go to other US dealers that have done single digit orders.

300 BH photo customers that ordered in October get their cameras. 1 customer who ordered from a dealer in January who got two cameras gets their camera.

1 guys comes here and says yay I got my camera after 4 weeks !

700 BH photo customers get onto this forum to complain how BMD must have a manufacturing delay and some guy who finds a dealer that gets two cameras they ordered at the same time BH ordered their 1000 cameras for January and gets a camera before those that ordered earlier than they did from BH photo

See how this works ?

BMD don’t track which customer orders first. This is how the distribution works and why it seems so uneven.

JB

EDIT

I’d also say it’s hit and miss to believe any reported numbers from a dealer. They also have an interest in keeping that to themselves in light of above.

Absolutely agree. Somehow I've been position 6 at Dragon image for almost 5 months.

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I knew B&H and Adorama would have a backlog of orders, but I never realized it was that many.

I think that BMD themselves have been overwhelmed by how popular this camera is. I think they've already shipped many units, it's just that there's so many back orders and more and more are jumping on....demand is actually going up.

JB

Yeah, I guess I just assumed a larger reseller would have more stock. I don't mind waiting, just want a sense of how long I'm going to have to wait...

They do, but they also have much much longer pre-order lists.

JB

I think that BMD themselves have been overwhelmed by how popular this camera is. I think they've already shipped many units, it's just that there's so many back orders and more and more are jumping on....demand is actually going up.

JB

Probably because they're seeing it, and footage shot with it, and people talking about it...

I also suspect many more waited in April until the camera was released in September and they could see sample footage online. Perhaps after BRAW is released for the BMPCC4K, there will be another uptick in orders. All of this waiting so people know announced features and anticipated features such as BRAW actually became delivered features.

I've never pre-ordered a camera in my life and I've bought a lot of them for my small company over the years.

For a number of reasons, I believed Blackmagiic were going take things to another level regarding a small form factor camera with the new Pocket - and we really utilze small cameras with our model. So, I pre-ordered two from B&H literally minutes after Grant's presentation and got them in the first shipment.

Even with my expectations, I was amazed at how much they put into the P4K, feature-wize.
After a few months of producing with them, I continue to be blown away by how good an image they provide and how brilliant the interface is.

I'm not surprised at all that they're having difficulty keeping up with demand.
They deserve big ass kudos, not criticism.

But of course, I'd feel frustrated if I were waiting for mine.

Quite likely. The negative comments that were flying around the internet after it was first revealed was amazing. Yes, there were good comments as well, but the negative ones perhaps increased after reviews started coming out. How some of the reviewers were selected still baffles me, they should have stuck to DSLR reviews and not cinema cameras.

They probably got chosen based on their follower count. I don't think that most dSLR users will be able to make great use of a Pocket 4K. It's not designed for videography, it's designed for craftspeople. It will produce decent results if it's pointed at scenes lit by bozos, but excellent results with scenes lit by cinematographers.

I've never pre-ordered a camera in my life and I've bought a lot of them for my small company over the years.

For a number of reasons, I believed Blackmagiic were going take things to another level regarding a small form factor camera with the new Pocket - and we really utilze small cameras with our model. So, I pre-ordered two from B&H literally minutes after Grant's presentation and got them in the first shipment.

Even with my expectations, I was amazed at how much they put into the P4K, feature-wize.
After a few months of producing with them, I continue to be blown away by how good an image they provide and how brilliant the interface is.

I'm not surprised at all that they're having difficulty keeping up with demand.
They deserve big ass kudos, not criticism.

But of course, I'd feel frustrated if I were waiting for mine.

Very well put, Jim.
Although I am guilty of having pre-ordered the first BMCC after it was announced because I had the feeling this camera would be a game changer at that price point - a promise that RED never delivered - they just priced their cameras higher and higher after the RED ONE.
So because of some initial problems with the BMCC I decided not rush and pre-order the UM46K. I only ordered it after firmware 4.0 with the new UI was introduced which was again a game changer in camera UIs. I had the same feeling like when I saw the first iPhone and how iOS worked.

And for the PCC4K I had enough confidence in BMD to pre-order it immediately while watching the presentation. Since I got the camera in October I've used it constantly in my productions and everyone is blown away how brilliant the resulting images are. My only regret is that I didn't pre-order two of them.

I don't think that most dSLR users will be able to make great use of a Pocket 4K. It's not designed for videography, it's designed for craftspeople. It will produce decent results if it's pointed at scenes lit by bozos, but excellent results with scenes lit by cinematographers.

It's both.
I am far from a cinematographer. I loved the original pocket for it's quality versus price.
Same with the P4K, which is even easier to use.
I mostly shoot on a photography tripod, with available light. Why would I pay more for a lesser codec by Panasonic or Sony?
I think the steep learning curve on the Pocket is often exaggerated.
Sure, I'm not making footage for Netflix, or for commercial clients with their strict standards, but I still value flexibility and quality and the Pocket 4K delivers on both...at a cheaper price than a lot of the lesser cameras.

I think the steep learning curve on the Pocket is often exaggerated.
Sure, I'm not making footage for Netflix, or for commercial clients with their strict standards, but I still value flexibility and quality and the Pocket 4K delivers on both...at a cheaper price than a lot of the lesser cameras.

Chris, you make some very valid points here. I feel much the same about the 4K, even though I have yet to receive mine. That menu system looks the easiest I have ever seen (helped in no small measure by the large screen).

They probably got chosen based on their follower count. I don't think that most dSLR users will be able to make great use of a Pocket 4K...

That must be true of some of those who may be making a living from reviewing gear. Yet we also had good material produced by some that I appreciated. I do think BMD will be more judicious in their selection of reviewers in the future.

They don’t have to be dyed-in-the-wool fanboys, but someone who will understand how to do good work with the features would be nice. When criticisms posted to YouTube show their ignorance of the camera’s capabilities, BMD must have cringed.


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Here is a quote from B&H regarding my frustration with being in the dark about not knowing when my camera will ship:

"You recently completed a B&H Customer Service Satisfaction Survey and gave us valuable feedback concerning your shopping experience.
I am sorry about the delay with this order. We have been working diligently and persistently with the manufacturer for a delivery date for this item. Unfortunately, the manufacturer has been heavily back ordered and at each contact the delivery date has been moved. As of today, regretfully, we still have not received delivery information."

This tells me they have not been shipping units regularly to the retailers like Blackmagic has said. Anyone from Blackmagic care to comment?

Every store is on a first come first serve, there are way more than 1 or 2 stores selling the pocket 4k. As soon as B&H put in their order they are on a waiting que, until they’re are next up to receive their orders. That’s why I never ordered from b&h it was too many people ordering from them.

This tells me they have not been shipping units regularly to the retailers like Blackmagic has said. Anyone from Blackmagic care to comment?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79757&start=750#p477560

JB

Hey, everyone. So, I'm curious... I have a 'pre-order' placed with B&H for the Pocket 4K. I placed it about four days ago and I wasn't sure about the turn times on the product and how long (roughly) I may have to wait. I've been talking with my local camera store who's a BMD dealer and they told me that the P4K is "incredibly backordered" and "don't expect to see it for (many) months." That said, I e-mailed B&H about expected delivery and they gave me almost no information. Basically, they 'know nothing' and couldn't help me.

So, with the out of the way, does anyone know any more information about B&H's status or general production information and, ultimately, if I should cancel my order with B&H and try somewhere smaller... or if I should just wait it out...

Your modus operandi of “shoot first, ask questions later” has been repeated here dozens of times. The answer remains the same, no one knows for sure so it’s your call. Read some more threads to get an idea of what you should do, but there’s no guarantee.


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Hey, everyone. So, I'm curious... I have a 'pre-order' placed with B&H for the Pocket 4K. I placed it about four days ago and I wasn't sure about the turn times on the product and how long (roughly) I may have to wait. I've been talking with my local camera store who's a BMD dealer and they told me that the P4K is "incredibly backordered" and "don't expect to see it for (many) months." That said, I e-mailed B&H about expected delivery and they gave me almost no information. Basically, they 'know nothing' and couldn't help me.

So, with the out of the way, does anyone know any more information about B&H's status or general production information and, ultimately, if I should cancel my order with B&H and try somewhere smaller... or if I should just wait it out...

When I called B&H last week, I asked specifically how many people were on pre-order for the BMPCC4K at B&H. The guy was actually pretty helpful, but he said a little over 1,000.

What I did was go to BlackMagic's website on their resellers page and started calling each one to find who had the least amount of pre-orders. Found one and ordered it. I'm sure I'll be waiting a while, but hopefully not as long as some people at B&H.

You're best bet is to stay away from B&H and Adorama Camera as they both have the most pre-orders so you'll be waiting in line quite a long time. Adorama Camera had around 600 when I spoke with them last week.