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F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

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Markus Cermak

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 9:42 am

Okke Verbart wrote:
Kristof Indeherberge wrote:Would like to have the View toolbar back:

Image

RMB'ing and then going through menus doesn't equal less clicks.


Yes, this is one of my main bugbears.



Yup definitely a +1 on the view toolbar.

Hovering over icons to get there meaning is just bad design
because it means that the super new Icon isn't doing what it supposed to do.

The best tooltips I saw are again in houdini.
And its not hovering over icons to learn them its really a "tooltip"
Image

Thats for me a reason to hover over whatever to get more information not to get just the basic meaning.

because then I just click on it and see what happens.
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Michael Wolf

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 9:57 am

In general, yes, the Fu16 GUI is a disaster and I agree with all of the niggles here.

When it comes to icons specifically: As mentioned earlier, they work if there's not too many of them. They also work really well if they're used to designate an identical (or at least very similar) function across an application. Arrows, play, stop, a cross to close something.

As soon as they're used for single functionality they start to get in the way quickly. Especially "professional" users work in many applications to accomplish a task. Remembering obscure icons used for a single function in one application can quickly get in the way of trying to get work done.
UX design is all about managing complexity nowadays (especially for non-consumer applications).

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Chad Capeland

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 1:30 pm

Markus Cermak wrote:Thats for me a reason to hover over whatever to get more information not to get just the basic meaning.


Fusion also supports F1 help map / hyperlinks. It's not used with BMD because they like PDF documentation, but some lookup to the PDF page number would be nice. Right now you hit F1 and you get the title page of the user guide.
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Abdelrahman Magdy

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 3:50 pm

I agree with most of what is said around the icons and I would rather BMD gives us a choice about them between Icons Only, Icons+Text or Text Only. From a development point of view, I don't think it would take any effort to add these options.

I have been using Fusion for a couple of years now and the text icons never confused me. I navigated the interface and controls for each node very easily. But the look-alike icons of Fusion 16 confuse me completely. I either have to hover over each tab in the node controls to figure out what it is called, rely on my memory to remember the order of the tabs from Fusion 9, or just switch between the tabs quickly until I find the one I need.

That is not a better UX, it is not one that is easier to learn for new users, and it is definitely not a productive one.


The other thing that is missing for me is Fu9's tabbed interface and the freedom it gave me to move things around.

For instance, this is the setup I currently use in Fu9 when working on big comps. It utilises my two monitors, gives me a full screen Flow for an easier navigation of the comp, and a viewer on top of a spline editor on the second monitor.

screenshot.png
screenshot.png (152.02 KiB) Viewed 46800 times

This is a setup that I can't replicate in Fu16. In fact, I can't seem to even find an option to make Fu16 use my two monitors, let alone using more than two. I haven't checked thoroughly to see if such an option exists, but I couldn't find it during the limited time I played with Fu16.

Worse than that, the F4 key now doesn't even seem to make the different parts of the UI go full screen. In Fu9, it used to be that you would click F4 over any tab and it would fill the entire Fusion window, momentarily hiding the other tabs.

In Fu16, it seems that there pre-defined areas where panels can fill and they can't go beyond that even when you click F4. For instance, the Flow panel would never hide the viewer. It can hide the Spline view if you have it open, but not the viewer. I'd rather have the F4 key make the panel fill the entire window, because when I use it, I am usually trying to focus on something within a specific panel and I don't need the other one visible on the screen for the time being.

As I said in my earlier post in this discussion, I am really happy that Fusion standalone is still alive. And I am glad to hear that there looks to be some improvement on the performance and the speed in the backend. I just would love to see some things improved when it comes to the interface to make sure that my speed and productivity is not hindered by it.

Dont get me wrong, this is not about the change of interface and me wanting what I am use to. This is not why a lot of existing Fusion users are frustrated about the new UI. Personally, I don't mind the new design. It is not my favorite, but I can live with it. It is about the parts of that design that affect our productivity when using the software.

I really hope BMD can listen to these frustrations, and I believe they will. Just please, don't let us wait and entire year for it :D
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Alex Friderici

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 7:57 pm

Somewhat UI related...I would really like to have gang editing of properties so that if I select (for example) 5 loaders, I get one property inspector that merges the properties. If I edit the source file location it updates it for all nodes but leaves unchanged properties (like exr buffer settings) alone. In other software properties that do not match each other, are highlighted in another color and set to "mixed" temporarily.
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Bryan Ray

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 10:45 pm

That would be a nice extension of the Batch Change Properties script currently available in Reactor. I've been wanting to open that guy back up and improve the interface, anyway. I'll put those ideas into my 'to do' list. Of course, if somebody else wants to get in there ahead of me, I wouldn't object!

edit: Would also be nice to have the ability to perform operations on controls that don't currently have the same value, like +.2 to all Gain knobs, or 'toggle all' for checkboxes.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 7:46 am

I haven't done a deep dive into those, but the for slash commands that are available in Reactor can do some of that stuff already. They're a pretty cool addition to Fusion.
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Sjur Pollen

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 11:17 am

Kristof Indeherberge wrote:Would like to have the View toolbar back:

Image

RMB'ing and then going through menus doesn't equal less clicks.


This is a huge one.

Out of curiosity though, are people using the masking-buttons in the view toolbar? They allways seemed superfluous to me, but I guess I'm missing something?
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Alex Friderici wrote:Somewhat UI related...I would really like to have gang editing of properties so that if I select (for example) 5 loaders, I get one property inspector that merges the properties. If I edit the source file location it updates it for all nodes but leaves unchanged properties (like exr buffer settings) alone. In other software properties that do not match each other, are highlighted in another color and set to "mixed" temporarily.


Yes! would be a big boost in productivity if we had that.

But also multi object manipulation. You select 3 objects ( 3 nodes) and move them all together. Right now you have to merge those nodes to move the objects.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 4:35 pm

Sjur Pollen wrote:Out of curiosity though, are people using the masking-buttons in the view toolbar? They allways seemed superfluous to me, but I guess I'm missing something?


I never do. Although they're technically quicker to reach than the toolbar above the Viewers in Fu9, so if you trained yourself to reach for them you might speed up slightly. If the toolbar lives between the Flow and the Viewers, though, then even that advantage would be gone. I'd be fine with seeing those buttons go away.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Bryan Ray wrote:
Sjur Pollen wrote:Out of curiosity though, are people using the masking-buttons in the view toolbar? They allways seemed superfluous to me, but I guess I'm missing something?


I never do. Although they're technically quicker to reach than the toolbar above the Viewers in Fu9, so if you trained yourself to reach for them you might speed up slightly. If the toolbar lives between the Flow and the Viewers, though, then even that advantage would be gone. I'd be fine with seeing those buttons go away.


Ideally you would configure it for your own needs. Someone doing roto in the viewer might appreciate those, but not care one bit for the 360 button or stereo settings. A few script buttons might be the most important thing you add, too.
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Kel Philm

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 pm

Thats one thing you've got to give to Premiere is that you can customize the crap out of its UI. It always amazes me when I open someone elses project just how different we all like to work.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 9:37 am

Yes I have to agree with above. I understand BMD want to unify the design but the changes are disastrous. Lot of space is taken out of the screen by useless bars that we need for seeing the image or navigating comp nodes, there is 30 % less space than in Fusion 9. The switching between nodes and spline also bad idea, I have to click ones on the spline tab and then second time to close nodes to have some space to work, that's is 4 clicks to go there and back. To be able to customize the UI is absolute necessity, please bring it back !!!!!! There is still problem with the UI scaling on 4K monitors, you can go 100% or 200%, that is on my 32 monitor either to small or to big, would be really helpful to have 150% option. Please Please BMD listen to the users what they need.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 10:20 am

Not letting to customize the interface is like the key decision if you wish to lose userbase, i mean if you really really want to lose every single user. Pro users have huge comps and BMD expects them to work in the tiny node window under the viewers. It's almost like the UI designer doesn't know how this software is used.
I think everybody accepted that this version is like a crossover version with no significant new functionality, and people are happy just to see a new version because they were worried about the future development of standalone version because of lack of communication from BMD. Even not getting anything new is ok but going backwards is not (Especially if you are skipping 6 versions :) ) I'm being optimistic and really wish and advice BMD listen to the userbase and fix the UI. Customizable window layout is a must. View toolbar is very important. But if we need to summarize all, the main fail is it seems no professional user feedback is taken while making a change this big to the software. BMD please listen to users and move forward from this point.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 7:17 am

There is still problem with the UI scaling on 4K monitors, you can go 100% or 200%, that is on my 32 monitor either to small or to big, would be really helpful to have 150% option.


Plus one for 150% resizing.
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Sander de Regt

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 9:28 pm

I understand BMD want to unify the design but the changes are disastrous.

Unifying a design can work both ways. Things that don't work too well in the Fusion UI also have some downsides in Resolve. And while on the subject of unifying: Resolve now has two completely seperate designs for a nodebased workflow. The nodes on the color page look and feel completely different from the ones in Fusion (and I think they could be greatly improved on the color page as well, since there are so many hidden options inside of a node, that it kind of defeats the purpose of having nodes in the first place).

So if some things work better on the Fusion page UI wise, then please by all means unify away, but you can do this in a two way fashion.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 12:10 am

Abdelrahman Magdy wrote:This is a setup that I can't replicate in Fu16. In fact, I can't seem to even find an option to make Fu16 use my two monitors, let alone using more than two.


You can actually get rather close... though the inspector probably needs to be on the main display from what I can tell.

Window -> New Floating Frame, move the resulting frame on the second screen.

Right-click in that window, Add View, Flow. Right-click within the Flow view and View Layout -> Fullscreen Frame.

Show the Spline view in the main window (View -> Spline or the button in the bar across the top), then View -> Nodes to hide the flow there.

You can hide the toolbar in the main window using View -> Toolbar, but there doesn't seem to be any way to get them onto the second screen at this point.


Note that I am on a Mac, not sure how close the interface in Windows is - you might need to tweak this to match.


As an alternative, you could put the spline editor and viewer in a floating frame: after creating the frame, right-click, Add View -> Spline, then right-click within the spline editor, View Layout -> Add View -> Above -> Image View. Then drag the toolbar or node view as high up in the main window as it will go to hide the viewer(s) there. That gives you the option of keeping the inspector and/or toolbar on the same screen as the node view if that is what you would prefer.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 10:29 am

Nice one Frank,

That has got me feeling a lot more at home!
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Abdelrahman Magdy

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 16, 2019 10:44 am

Frank Engel wrote:You can actually get rather close... though the inspector probably needs to be on the main display from what I can tell.

Window -> New Floating Frame, move the resulting frame on the second screen.

Right-click in that window, Add View, Flow. Right-click within the Flow view and View Layout -> Fullscreen Frame.

Show the Spline view in the main window (View -> Spline or the button in the bar across the top), then View -> Nodes to hide the flow there.

You can hide the toolbar in the main window using View -> Toolbar, but there doesn't seem to be any way to get them onto the second screen at this point.


Note that I am on a Mac, not sure how close the interface in Windows is - you might need to tweak this to match.


As an alternative, you could put the spline editor and viewer in a floating frame: after creating the frame, right-click, Add View -> Spline, then right-click within the spline editor, View Layout -> Add View -> Above -> Image View. Then drag the toolbar or node view as high up in the main window as it will go to hide the viewer(s) there. That gives you the option of keeping the inspector and/or toolbar on the same screen as the node view if that is what you would prefer.
Thanks, Frank. That should do for now at least.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 18, 2019 10:40 am

Sjur Pollen wrote:Out of curiosity though, are people using the masking-buttons in the view toolbar?

Yes, almost always. They're just closer to the view if I interact with it anyhow.

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 18, 2019 10:48 am

barbmsu wrote:Not letting to customize the interface is like the key decision if you wish to lose userbase, i mean if you really really want to lose every single user. Pro users have huge comps and BMD expects them to work in the tiny node window under the viewers. It's almost like the UI designer doesn't know how this software is used.

I don't actually think that a fully configurable user interface is really a necessity if the basic design is well thought out. Fusion worked well enough before we got the tabs (even though they certainly added to the functionality). From my experience, in most (not all)! cases, users ask for more options to configure a GUI because it's got design flaws (or oversights) to begin with.

I certainly feel like the current GUI is not just going one step back though - but at least two or three. It's close to adding a tile background to the flow view again. ;)

Cheers,
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 18, 2019 12:56 pm

Something to consider; Resolve now supports half a dozen languages and in many locations text just won’t fit where icons will. To grow Fusions user base we need to appeal to the many non English speakers and good icons do that. We clearly have a number that need improvement and all the repeats need their own but a text only I/f isn’t easier translatable given the sizing considerations on screen.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu Apr 18, 2019 7:54 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Something to consider; Resolve now supports half a dozen languages and in many locations text just won’t fit where icons will. To grow Fusions user base we need to appeal to the many non English speakers and good icons do that. We clearly have a number that need improvement and all the repeats need their own but a text only I/f isn’t easier translatable given the sizing considerations on screen.


Wait, so you're telling me that if I buy a Resolve Panel or a Fairlight console or an ATEM or an URSA in Germany, all the text on the buttons and switches and connectors are in German?


The sizing considerations are entirely self-inflicted, though, right? Fusion 9 has no problem accommodating longer label strings.

LongStringsFitJustFine.PNG
LongStringsFitJustFine.PNG (9.97 KiB) Viewed 45909 times


And while it might be easy for BMD to make unique representative icons, it's not for the users. I can add tab in 10 seconds with text, but making a custom icon would obviously take much longer (and there isn't a way to even do that now, as far as I can tell). And it still doesn't address the issue that no matter how good the icons are, they don't wrap, so at the default tool control view width you see the middle 10 icons, the others are hidden with no indication for the user that they exist.

Truth be told, I don't even know where you specify language in the tools themselves. Like do we need to localize FuRegisterClass() and Create() with language tables? I wouldn't know where to do that. I've used hundreds of Fusion tools from no less than 50 different users, maybe half of which are native English speakers, and I've never seen multilingual tooltips or categories. June Yu makes English versions of his tools, but they're not multilingual, he has separate versions for Chinese and English.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostFri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 am

I think there are too many functions that have been hidden away in sub menus, such as the viewer brightness and gamma settings, which used to be accessible with one click
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostFri Apr 19, 2019 1:01 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:Something to consider; Resolve now supports half a dozen languages and in many locations text just won’t fit where icons will. To grow Fusions user base we need to appeal to the many non English speakers and good icons do that. We clearly have a number that need improvement and all the repeats need their own but a text only I/f isn’t easier translatable given the sizing considerations on screen.


Understood. But I hope you are considering alternatives. I know I simply can't learn that many icons in an effective way. "Discoverability" of multiple abstract icons is very low, meaning I can't understand from looking at them what they mean unless they refer to the actual "things" depicted.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostFri Apr 19, 2019 2:52 pm

roger.magnusson wrote: "Discoverability" of multiple abstract icons is very low, meaning I can't understand from looking at them what they mean unless they refer to the actual "things" depicted.


I'll have to find the study again, but when MS switched their office products to the ribbon GUI, they did some research on how many and what icons users could identify from memory. For users with more than 2 years experience in the software, the average was 6 icons. Six.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 4:08 am

This is where logical groupings are important (where possible).
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 4:22 am

I don't see how logical groupings are going to do much to help people learn a vocabulary of possibly hundreds of symbols. It seems a bit wrong-headed to me to try to solve the multi-lingual problem by forcing everyone to learn yet another language (and one that quite likely will not be well-designed, unless there's a very talented conlanger in the UX team).

I'd probably be willing to be a little more patient if the current icon scheme weren't a year old, with little indication of progress on issues that were raised during the Resolve 15 beta. We pointed out this time last year that many tools just had repeats of the same icon on every tab. It's a crippling usability failure in the software, and the fact that it's still an issue, long after that software has left its own beta period, indicates that solving it isn't easy.

At the very least, text should remain until such time as a unique icon has been made. And even once we have icons, an option to switch to text would be welcome.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 1:26 pm

Sam O'Hare wrote:For me, the main issue is that you can now no longer organise the UI how you like it.

^ This. But I'm positive it'll be taken care for by BMD in Beta development process.

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 6:17 pm

Piotr Wozniacki wrote:
Sam O'Hare wrote:For me, the main issue is that you can now no longer organise the UI how you like it.

^ This. But I'm positive it'll be taken care for by BMD in Beta development process.

Piotr


I agree (or at least I hope). I've found the floating image and frame windows allow us to get a bit of the customization back, but please allow the panels to be dock-able. The program uses Qt5, please don't just remove this very important feature that every other DCC also uses and implements. It's critical for giving us the most flexibility with how we like to work.

Also, for floating viewers I've seen people mention that LUT's don't work with them. Is that a Fu9 thing? Because it works totally fine here in Fu16.

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 6:52 pm

MikeRochefort wrote: Because it works totally fine here in Fu16.


Full screen. Floating works, full screen does not.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 6:59 pm

Bryan Ray wrote:I'd probably be willing to be a little more patient if the current icon scheme weren't a year old, with little indication of progress on issues that were raised during the Resolve 15 beta. We pointed out this time last year that many tools just had repeats of the same icon on every tab. It's a crippling usability failure in the software, and the fact that it's still an issue, long after that software has left its own beta period, indicates that solving it isn't easy.


Indeed, with the F16 beta, it's amusing to hear the same complaints being repeated a year later. And some users who moved from F9 to F16 without touching Resolve 15 are saying to be patient because it's "the first beta".

As to the difficulty in solving it, there has been a PoC interface design in use by a group of both experienced and new users for a while that solves most of the issues. It supports text and icon tabs, configurable workspaces, etc.. I think it's just a matter of BMD making a decision as to whether or not to go with that system.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:
MikeRochefort wrote: Full screen. Floating works, full screen does not.


Is the Full Screen you're referring to the same as the following?

Windows > New Image Viewer
Right-click in image viewer > Global Options > Full Screen

If yes, then LUT's do work. Or are you referring to another method for creating a reference monitor, such as the preferences on Video Monitoring? Genuinely curious, there's a lot about Fusion I don't know. I also only have one monitor, so I'm not often creating a fullscreen view.

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Chad Capeland

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 7:31 pm

No, that's not full screen, that's just a window maximized. The old "full screen" was a workaround for people doing stereoscopic work who wanted to output to 3D monitors using Nvidia 3D Vision for DirectX, as opposed to using quadbuffer OpenGL, which required a Quadro card.

It doesn't require DirectX anymore, but it still doesn't support the normal things that the GLViews do, like preview controls, LUTs, viewshaders, etc..
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 8:26 pm

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 9:11 am

I would like to get back the keyframe indicator on the left side as atm in FU 16 its hard to find keyed parameters as only the grey on darker grey <> aroows show a keyed parameter.
So going with the new red color theme I made a quick mockup

Also like a lot of ppl said. to much space is wasted and so you need to scroll alot down up in the "Inspector"

Image

and a small suggestion.
I would like to have the spline view controls in the top bar. Somehow feels better then having them down below. It took me a second to notice them down there and it feels like I do alot more "Pen/mouse travel" then when they would be on top.
Image

What to you guys think?
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 2:07 pm

I like and agree with all your points Markus. For animated attributes, at the very least the keyed attributes need to have their channel box filled with a backdrop, and have a muted tone on non-keyed frames. All applications Inuse (Nuke, Maya, Houdini, Katana(?)) do this and it helps immensely. The singular dot and arrows do not do a great job of converting that, and the white ' that gets put in the timeline is barely noticeable. Thicken that guy up a bit. I also like the spline editor suggestion, Maya and C4D both have their tools in the top bar for fast and easy access.

Some other UI requests I’ve picked up over the last week or so (some of which have probably already been requested:

* Drag and drop panels. Seriously. Please don’t release the final product without this. Everything in the View menu should be customizable as to its location on screen.
* Hidden sliders. Get rid of this, if I want to highlight a value in a channel box, I shouldn’t have to click in to a channel and then click again to drag. It’s completey counter intuitive and Fusion doesn’t need to be a special case for this. Make them standard text boxes and if you feel the need for a slider, add one either visibly or in a dropdown.
* Full tile render indicators. I can barely tell when something is rendering in the flow, regardless of zoom level. Full tile to me is only visible in the navigator. Please make this more apparent.
* Flow zoom level. Please allow us to zoom out further. Please.

Cheers,
Mike
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 3:04 pm

Markus Cermak wrote:So going with the new red color theme I made a quick mockup


The problem with red is it reads as an error.

MikeRochefort wrote:For animated attributes, at the very least the keyed attributes need to have their channel box filled with a backdrop, and have a muted tone on non-keyed frames.


That's how the currently released Fusion works. They only got rid of that in the beta, and it should come back.

Green: Keyframe at current time
Blue: Modified
Yellow: SimpleExpression
Green outline: Instanced

It would be nice if there was more colors, though. For instance, there's no color difference between a modifier that can be keyframed and one that can't. Another color that would be useful is one that shows whether the control is externally controlled. Some modifiers, like Publish or Perturb, accept input from the control, while others, like Expression, lock the control. Having an additional color to differentiate that would be nice.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 4:51 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:That's how the currently released Fusion works. They only got rid of that in the beta, and it should come back.


Do we know that for sure? This is BMD, the king's of sealed lips. Unless you've spoken to them, I trust your word on things ;) I was surprised they removed it at all, but you can't do a UI rewrite without breaking some things at first. Is it in Resolve? I never bothered with the integration.

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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 5:06 pm

MikeRochefort wrote:
Chad Capeland wrote:That's how the currently released Fusion works. They only got rid of that in the beta, and it should come back.


Do we know that for sure? This is BMD, the king's of sealed lips. Unless you've spoken to them, I trust your word on things ;) I was surprised they removed it at all, but you can't do a UI rewrite without breaking some things at first. Is it in Resolve? I never bothered with the integration.

Cheers,
Mike


I'm saying it's not a feature request, it's a bug report.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue Apr 23, 2019 5:31 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:I'm saying it's not a feature request, it's a bug report.


:thumbsup:

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Mike
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 am

I would prefer the green color for keyframes as well.
Like Chad said:
Green: Keyframe at current time
Blue: Modified
Yellow: SimpleExpression
Green outline: Instanced

Also the * Full tile render indicators.
* Flow zoom level.
Are two important things for me.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue May 07, 2019 12:03 pm

Beta 2 is out, but from what I can see it doesn't look like they fixed anything important.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue May 07, 2019 1:49 pm

Frank Engel wrote:Beta 2 is out, but from what I can see it doesn't look like they fixed anything important.


I suspect making significant changes to the UI is a rather broad task, and better suited to roll out on less of an incremental basis. I'm guessing the first few iterations of betas will focus on fixing what is already there (bugs, performance and isolated features), as it's less of an holistic undertaking.

Hoperfully, a broad overhaul of the UI will come closer to release... Fingers crossed.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostTue May 07, 2019 11:26 pm

Bryan Ray wrote:I don't see how logical groupings are going to do much to help people learn a vocabulary of possibly hundreds of symbols.


3D tools grouped together, Blur Tools grouped together etc... not sure how this wouldn't help, its a method used in just about every 3D app out there? I do realise that one of the difficulties in UI design is to cater for a lot of different minds, we are not all the same (as all the above has shown) and we create associations in many different ways, well designed icons (with tool tips) work well for me it is clear that this is not the case for everyone.

I was hoping for some UI improve in this release as well but it looks like it has not yet been looked at.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed May 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Sjur Pollen wrote:
Frank Engel wrote:Beta 2 is out, but from what I can see it doesn't look like they fixed anything important.


I suspect making significant changes to the UI is a rather broad task, and better suited to roll out on less of an incremental basis. I'm guessing the first few iterations of betas will focus on fixing what is already there (bugs, performance and isolated features), as it's less of an holistic undertaking.

Hoperfully, a broad overhaul of the UI will come closer to release... Fingers crossed.


I would think the exact opposite. Changing the UI should be done in Alpha, not Beta. You don't want people getting used to doing things one way, then change everything around for the release, not to mention any UI changes would also need testing.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostWed May 08, 2019 5:05 pm

Kel Philm wrote:
Bryan Ray wrote:I don't see how logical groupings are going to do much to help people learn a vocabulary of possibly hundreds of symbols.


3D tools grouped together, Blur Tools grouped together etc... not sure how this wouldn't help, its a method used in just about every 3D app out there?


How do they stay grouped?

In Fusion 9, for instance, the icons for common controls, intool scripts, and comments are always grouped together (unless the tool intentionally suppresses them). In Resolve 15, the icons for media, edit, fusion, color, fairlight, and deliver are always grouped together. Same with transport controls, or the 3D transform buttons. Small groups of icons, always presented in the same order. So in those cases the grouping works and the icons work great.

But how would you force nodes in the flow view to be in a specific order? Or in a bin? Look at how Resolve handles the Effects Library. There's no enforced order of the icons, and so they don't even try. They have ~5 generic icons, a lightning bolt, an underlined T, diamond pattern, the letters GPU, and a waveform. The user is expected to find what they need via the text, not useless/meaningless icons.

Less than half the flow tools in my Fusion install are made by BMD. How would they enforce a grouping on tools they don't make, and how would the tools that other people make conform to the grouping?
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu May 09, 2019 4:26 am

Chad Capeland wrote:But how would you force nodes in the flow view to be in a specific order? Or in a bin? Look at how Resolve handles the Effects Library. There's no enforced order of the icons, and so they don't even try. They have ~5 generic icons, a lightning bolt, an underlined T, diamond pattern, the letters GPU, and a waveform. The user is expected to find what they need via the text, not useless/meaningless icons.


Ok, I think I understand what you mean and I think you've misinterpreted my statements. I am talking about the use of toolbars with icons which I am a fan of (the only faster method for me is a hotkey), I am certainly not talking about replacing all the existing methods we have of accessing tools such as menus, select tool dialog, bins etc...
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu May 09, 2019 1:19 pm

ErichLinder wrote:
I would think the exact opposite. Changing the UI should be done in Alpha, not Beta. You don't want people getting used to doing things one way, then change everything around for the release, not to mention any UI changes would also need testing.


I think we all agree it should have been done in the alpha, but since it's not I'm just saying it seems unlikely to see any big UI changes in the first few betas. I suspect/hope UI got a priority-boost after we users voiced our concerns.
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Re: F16: Let's improve the user interface ;-)

PostThu May 09, 2019 3:27 pm

Kel Philm wrote:Ok, I think I understand what you mean and I think you've misinterpreted my statements. I am talking about the use of toolbars with icons which I am a fan of (the only faster method for me is a hotkey), I am certainly not talking about replacing all the existing methods we have of accessing tools such as menus, select tool dialog, bins etc...


But what forces the toolbars to be in the same order?

And it still doesn't address the issue of the icons being unreadable in use in the flow. There's plenty of room for improvement on the icons in Fusion 9, but at least you can read them when the scale is >= 50%.

Fusion 9's tilepics are readable at a smaller size than Fusion 16's are.
Flow_tilepic_compare.PNG
Flow_tilepic_compare.PNG (169.71 KiB) Viewed 42945 times


It's possible that better icons would make the text-free toolbar more useful, but it's hard to know without seeing it.
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