stabilization from small boat with PCC

Hello all,
I wonder if there would be any chances of resolving image stabilization problems when shooting fishing action from small boat. I wonder If I would be not dissapointed before buying the Pocket Cinema Camera. May be i should look for a DSLR with image stabilization included in body . Best Regards, thanks

Hello all,
I wonder if there would be any chances of resolving image stabilization problems when shooting fishing action from small boat. I wonder If I would be not dissapointed before buying the Pocket Cinema Camera. May be i should look for a DSLR with image stabilization included in body . Best Regards, thanks

You need to research physically stabilizing the camera. The BMPCC should be easy and inexpensive to manage with a stabilizer. If your shots will be relatively brief, a stabilizer you hold in one hand may work for you, but longer times as you might be doing out on the water, you will need a good vest support. Perhaps begin by looking at Cheesy cam's website.

Rick Lang
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Image stabilising lenses or camera bodies will only get you so far... Physical stabilisation is what will give you the best effect. Since the Pocket Cinema Camera is fairly lightweight, a steadicam-type device shouldn't cost too much...

Thank you both for your replies . The most I read the most confused.
Should I use lenses with stablization, right??
I thought about buying 3 different lenses: 16mm, 35mm, 75 mm ( Not 11-16 or 14-140mm lenses ), a friend told me that It´s better for image quality. May be I should resume and make it easy. Thanks a lot for the help.
Fernando

Thank you both for your replies . The most I read the most confused.
Should I use lenses with stablization, right??
I thought about buying 3 different lenses: 16mm, 35mm, 75 mm ( Not 11-16 or 14-140mm lenses ), a friend told me that It´s better for image quality. May be I should resume and make it easy. Thanks a lot for the help.
Fernando

Remember on the BMPCC, that 16mm lens will look very close to a normal lens due to the smaller sensor. That might be the only lens you would use or may be used most frequently on a physical stabilizer. A shorter lens (10 or 12mm) would make things easier if the lens still suits your needs.

Rick Lang
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Hello all,
I wonder if there would be any chances of resolving image stabilization problems when shooting fishing action from small boat. I wonder If I would be not dissapointed before buying the Pocket Cinema Camera. May be i should look for a DSLR with image stabilization included in body . Best Regards, thanks

Google Movi...

however, whatever you do, you are a slave to the amount of movement the boat has. No getting around that.

I think the Movi is overpriced, but it seems like some similar stabilisers are coming out now.

Wide angle lenses such as Sigma 8-16mm will give little shakiness, just because they have a wide angle view.. A 35mm in a shaky boat will give bad results, especially if you compare it to a fullframe sensor like the Canon 5Ds, which get wider angles with the same lens.

If the shots are not too shaky, I find that stabilization in After Effects usually gives great results.

Thanks to all for your replies.
Yes ! the Movi stabilizer looks pricey , but it´s also quite big to manage with us inside the boat. These boats are quite small.
Looking nice your advice about After Effects, we will always depend of the waves of the sea.
I must look for a 12mm or 16mm that fits this camera and filming all shootings with the same lenses. I see that some that I found on research just don´t fit. Also might look for 30 mm or higher maybe for shooting other images from shore & using tripod.
Thanks about the idea of the vest stabilizer. Now I am less confused, thanks a lot for the help

Thanks to all for your replies.
Yes ! the Movi stabilizer looks pricey , but it´s also quite big to manage with us inside the boat. These boats are quite small.
Looking nice your advice about After Effects, we will always depend of the waves of the sea.
I must look for a 12mm or 16mm that fits this camera and filming all shootings with the same lenses. I see that some that I found on research just don´t fit. Also might look for 30 mm or higher maybe for shooting other images from shore & using tripod.
Thanks about the idea of the vest stabilizer. Now I am less confused, thanks a lot for the help

Perhaps I should add the following to my signature at the end of all my posts for the next few months ...

"Because the Pocket Cinema Camera isn't expected to start shipping until at least late July 2013 -- at the absolute earliest -- please don't purchase expensive accessories for a camera you don't actually have in-hand. BMD continues to keep thousands of customers worldwide waiting for many many months for the original BMCC-EF and BMCC-MFT. No one knows when the BMPCC will actually ship."

Cheers.
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Peter, your advice about purchasing accessories is well-founded and makes a lot of sense.

Still, I have no regrets about pillaging eBay for lenses that I consider to be bargains now, but likely to increase in price once the PCC hits the streets. I'm talking old, quirky c-mount glass - not new lenses that will be readily available later.

Sure, there may ultimately be some issues here and there with vignetting, but at these prices, it's no sweat. I can always resell.

I'm getting a nice little collection of Kern Paillard Switar, Som Berthiot, and Angenieux lenses - not to mention “toy” CCTV and pinhole cheapies. I'll be ready to hit the ground running.

Sorry but I am not cropping ebay for discounts. I have sent emails to all dealers in my country about this camera.
What I mean is that I don´t like Vigneting. The fact is simple, what we are filming has lots of efforts behind and two years of work and health, so we don´t really care at all about ebay or whatever.
But we don´t like what we see arround looking for compatible lenses, those zeiss that we saw for our purposes just don´t match.
I will have to buy also lots of batteries and stuff, so besides camera is not sealed & Peter´s advice makes it difficult at this time. I think.
Thanks to Peter because plane tickets have certain dates.

I must look for a 12mm or 16mm that fits this camera and filming all shootings with the same lenses.

The SLR Magic Hyperprime 12mm T1.6 ciné MFT lens might be a good wide angle for the BMPCC if you can work with an all manual lens.

Rick Lang
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If you are shooting from a small boat on the ocean, you are in for a rough go. It is not easy at all. The amount of movement in all axes is quite large. Plus there is nearly always spray unless you shoot towards the rear. Have you ever tried it with just some cheap video camera to see what you are dealing with?

Points made are valid: wide angle is easier, image stabilization in a lens only goes so far (mostly designed to take out shake, not huge movements), camera stabilizing rigs are helpful, especially an active one like Movi (albeit Movi is quite pricey), and stabilizing in post (e.g. After Effects) can sometimes save the day.

If the water has significant waves or is choppy, and you are in a small boat, you are in for a VERY rough go! Even experienced professionals quake at the thought!

dn

Well in line of the Movi you could think about the 3 axis gimbals that are used for RC helicopters and Quadro copters.. Something like that combined with a Picloc 3x system. Could be small enough for you to stabilize the most harsh movements out..

Thanks about the ideas of stabilizing the camera inside the boat. It´s important not getting it fixed in one point because you´ever know the way fish will take, or direction of the boat. Like Movi but less pricey and Big would work.
Spraying is HUGE problem in here, we have tested at the end of 2011 and have some footage 1080 p.
But with no stabilization and The camera was sealed. Problem is that Big Fish when reach the boat exhausted always try to scape, always spraying camera. It look like more realistic also.
I don´t know if a hacked DSLR camera with out being sealed will last that much in these conditions, rain + sprying from the ocean or what to do now,
I am in touch with BM dealers here, still waiting for notices, they don´t have good news for me, the same as Peter told us before. Many thanks
Anyways I am behind this camera for the next trips

Get a monopod. They make great and cheap steadicams. Just google Monopod as a steadicam. In fact here's a vid on it. Not perfect but a cheap solution to get your practice with

Everyones going nuts over the MoVi but it doesn't answer stabilising problems on the Z axis.

I would say, rent a 2 or better 3 axis giro. They have worked on boats since years.

a counter balanced fig rig.

Thanks about the ideas of stabilizing the camera inside the boat. It´s important not getting it fixed in one point because you´ever know the way fish will take, or direction of the boat. Like Movi but less pricey and Big would work.
Spraying is HUGE problem in here, we have tested at the end of 2011 and have some footage 1080 p.

By stabilizing, we didn't suggest fixing the camera to the boat. You want the exact opposite as the small boat will be moving in any direction. Something providing 3-axis stability for the camera via the gimbal or gyroscope Frank mentioned.

The BMPCC is BMD's crash cam and in time you'll find accessories like sand and water sealed enclosures. Hope you will be able to pair the enclosure with a stabilizer.

Rick Lang
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There are two kinds of 'gyros'. The kind that Frank is talking about, which might be called a 'real' gyro, is very effective for shooting on a larger boat across some distance to another boat or even land view, since it pretty much prevents (greatly damps) angular change.

The 'gyros' in the Movi are sensors combined with active electronics and motors which counteract angular motion of the frame to stabilize the camera, and will work better for a wider shot in close. It sounds like the camera is on the same boat with the action / objects framed, and that there can be quite a bit of movement of the fish in close, which requires quick movements of the cameraman. So a 'real' gyro would not do in that case, and even the Movi will not help so much unless the frame is narrower and the fish is farther away. So a practiced operator with a decent type of steadicam rig (not necessarily that brand) is probably the best bet in that scenario.

The only thing I know that can deal with the spray is that little whirring rig that blows it away. It is mostly used by bigger productions, AFAIK. In my view, getting spray on the lens detracts very seriously from production value in every case; it is not 'more real'.

T In my view, getting spray on the lens detracts very seriously from production value in every case; it is not 'more real'.

Word! IMHO "more real" or "artsy" are amateur excuses for not going the extra mile, a pro always does.

T In my view, getting spray on the lens detracts very seriously from production value in every case; it is not 'more real'.

Word! IMHO "more real" or "artsy" are amateur excuses for not going the extra mile, a pro always does.

Agreed. That is, sadly, the biggest down side to film making becoming less expensive; so many people think that all it takes is investing in a good camera...

Yeah, what these guys said.

If you're dealing with too many issues on the boat...the solution is get off the boat. I've watched a fishing show being taped in my home province and it was a two boat operation. The film boat was not a small, nimble fishing boat and a much larger and more stable boat. They did film some shots from the fishing boat, but only when stopped. The motion shots were all done from the larger boat.

So what's cheaper...a movi or another boat? Still a movi haha

Movi is definitely cream of the crop- and the guys over at Freefly do a great job.

There's some other players that are coming out on the market that I anticipate will be targeting more the indie crowd (e.g. less expensive).

I'd anticipate seeing something in the next month or two- and you'll likely see some testing with the BM PCC.

... The only thing I know that can deal with the spray is that little whirring rig that blows it away. It is mostly used by bigger productions, AFAIK. In my view, getting spray on the lens detracts very seriously from production value in every case; it is not 'more real'.

SpinTec is one:
http://www.innovision-optics.com/prod/spintec.shtml

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Thanks for these tips
Rain deflector looking very good but nosense here, it´s a lot pricey. We migh clean lenses and stay away of spraying. Steadicam might be simple due we have not a lot space in the boat. I thought about simple arm steadicam .
Filming with 25mm F2.8 lenses instead 35mm F2.4 to correct the shaky of the boat or may be I might go down for a 12 mm F2.0. Finally we opted for the hacked camera we all know.
But I will be on the list for the BMPCC as soon as I come back from this trip. Thank You Guys.