P4K loose lens mount

Hey fellow P4K owners, I’ve only had my camera for a week so I may have an “updated “ camera. It seems that every lens or adapter that I attach to the camera is noticeable loose. The lenses seem to function just fine but I can move the lenses so much that I can visibly see a gap between the lens mount plate and the camera lens mount plate. Is this something I should have repaired or is this typical for a mft mount?

Randy


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I believe loose mounts have reported by a few other users, but it's not typical or normal. Contact tech support.

Well this issue is still bothering me so I took the camera into my local camera shop to get another opinion. He didn't seem overly concerned but he did say that the mount felt sloppy. He took the camera to the back to check the tightness of the screws etc and said everything was tight so it must be the silver mounting ring itself.

That prompted me to call BM service when I got home. First the rep said this was not a know issue but the more I explained the problem, camera shop experience, etc he finally says, "yeah, I think I remember hearing something about that". He puts me on hold, comes back and says other people have reported the same issue but I'll have to "live with it". WHAT????? What kind of customer service is that Blackmagic !! How can you know about a problem, refuse to address it, and tell your customers basically to bugger off? The service rep wouldn't even allow me to send it in for a repair because it's considered "normal". How would he know if my camera is normal? He has never seen my camera or felt the issue that I am experiencing with my camera. That is TOTAL BS.

Anyone want to buy my P4K?

[Kristian Lam]

The lenses seem to function just fine but I can move the lenses so much that I can visibly see a gap between the lens mount plate and the camera lens mount plate.

Could you contact support again and email some photos? Start a ticket.

If you are adapting lenses, I'd suggest getting a full/half cage that has a metabones lens adapter support. I have a Smallrig cage with support , and once its installed there's no movement at all between the adapter and camera. I still have movement between the adapter and my EF lenses, so I installed some electrical tape in 4 points on the adapter, between the lens. This keeps the lens side from moving.

I also have a native Mft olympus 12-100mm f4, and that lens is rock solid when mounted directly to the camera....

RY is correct, test the mount with a MFT native lens from Panasonic or Olympus, and see if that lens is loose. All MFT mounts have a slight rotational play, created by the locking pin, but it should just be slight.
My origBMPCC had this issue, which was corrected on later cameras. Heavy adapted lenses are going to reveal this play more when pulling a manual focus, but MFT native lenses should stay put fairly well, with just a slight play when rotating the lens, but is should not have any play front to back.
Cheers

I have two BMMCCs and both have similar very slight gap between mount surface and the lens. It feels like like 0.05mm or so, but it is enough to tilt lens a little if press too strong. My guess it is just a MFT mount specific safety tolerance, or maybe BM made it this way to fit any not too precise made lens.
The funny thing is that this gap don't protect from poor made lens adapters because internal mount clamps are too thick sometimes and don't fit.

From my point of view it is a wrong way to design mount like this. In perfect world all lens mount ring area should support lens mount.

I have a Rokinon Cine DS 10mm lens in MFT mount - sloppy fit.

Viltrox EF-M1 adaptor - sloppy fit to camera body HOWEVER ALL of the Canon lenses, both EF and EF-S have a tight fit to the lens side of this adapter. Funny how a cheap $100 adapter has better fitment to lenses than the actual P4K camera.

Could you contact support again and email some photos? Start a ticket.

That's what I was trying to do the other day. How can I start a ticket when the agent on the phone refuses to do so? Give me a number to call or email address to use.

I can try taking a photo but I doubt that my phone camera will be much help.

Contact BM Support here (scroll to bottom for email contact, ref Kristian Lam’s note above.
Cheers

Any way to post video here to show the movement?

How much is this 'visible' movement? If I hold any of my m4/3 camera bodies and then force a lens up and down, there will be 'visible' movement. None of this translates to any image deterioration. Is this movement that you're experiencing sufficient to slide a piece of paper, paperclip or knife in between?

I can easily slide a yellow sticky note paper (which feels thicker than regular notebook paper) between the body and lens. I can fold the sticky note and get the folded edge to go between the body and lens.

I finally got the approval to send the camera in. They received it on Monday (today is Saturday) I have had no communication from them at all. Does anyone in the US have any experience with an RMA that can let me know what to expect? Will they email me before return shipment or just send it? I would like to know when I need to be around to sign for the package.

Support Service that I have had from BMD in Fremont has been excellent. You will get an RMA authorization via email with instructions to return the camera (I would ship UPS or FedEx), and when it is received, you will get a email from a service rep assigned to your case. This person will track your camera repair, and will let you know what issue BMD found, and when it is fixed, will email you to advise the camera is being returned.

I sent in a VA when they first csme out, shipped it and had it back in seven working days (Mon-Fri), including shipping both ways (l live in northern Calif. so shipping was 1-day each way). The repair took about 5-working day’s. I have heard of camera repairs being turned around in two to three days. Just depends on the issue, and weather they just swap out your camera for a new one (which you can have them check before shipping).

Follow the instructions, just ship the camera body with cap, no other accessories, remove any adapters you have on it, like a cage or Speed Booster. Pack the camera in bubble wrap, or use the original box, and Redbox the camera box into a larger box with additional packing material (double boxing). This will keep the camera safe during shipping.
Cheers

Denny, like I said earlier. They have had my camera since this past Monday but I have not heard from them at all.

Rokinon Cine DS lens weight 631g this close to limit of MTF mount supported weight in specification. If front glass of wide lens is big and heavy mechanical moment in the mount to be out of specification for sure. Focal plane good tolerance for lens in photography to be within +/-0,01mm. So, no visible gap should be between lens and mount. I have had the same problem with BM loose MTF mount on my BMPCC. Even after repair of my camera mount lenses after 600g as Angenieux 5.9/1.8, Canon FD24/1,2L definitely need to have additional support.

ps. problem with my camera MTF mount was loose (weak) not in mechanical shape spring inside of the mount. So, I have opened mount and simply made it more tight.

Denny, like I said earlier. They have had my camera since this past Monday but I have not heard from them at all.

OK, misread your first post, thought you got approval. Did you get a email authorization? If so, contact that person, or call BMD Fremont office. You should have received an email saying they received it, and assigned a service rep. Check your spam folder, it might be in there.
Cheers

OK, I got my camera back yesterday and it seems like they did nothing at all to repair my camera. Here is a short video of what I am seeing. You tell me, is this normal?

https://www.spenceracoustics.com/private

My camera is also kind of loose, not like my Gh5 where every lens fits tight. Image moves slightly if you move at the base mount but it is not so loose that it would move by itself without purpose handling, so not worried yet but I think they could make the mount fit really tight like it should be.

Some lenses are worse than others so i understand that there has to be a little wiggle room but in my case I think it is too much.

BM has always had an issue with lens mount tolerances on the MFT mount. The original Pocket was released with a very loose mount, which they tightened up in later production. A MFT mount has to have some “wiggle room” in its tolerance to allow different lens from different manufacturers to fit correctly.

I think the current issue is more to do with the spring, which compresses the lens mount to the camera body mount to “seat” it firmly in place, as is done on the Oly and Panna bodies. The current Pocket 4K spring may be too weak to keep enough pressure against the mount when the lens is handled. BM got the mount correct on the Micro Camerss, which were much tighter than the early Pocket Cameras.

That said, all MFT mounts can be turned slightly in the mount on the locking pin, but it should not have any sag on lenses weighing 1-lb or less. The. ft Mount is good for small lenses and most still photography, but not the best mount for large Cine lenses. When using larger lenses, or for Cine shooting any lens bigger than the Panna Leica 25mm DG, should be supported to either the camera cage or tripod plate, so the stress is taken off the camera lens mount, and any movement is eliminated.

The only lenses I use unsupported are the small MFT Primes, like the PL 15mm and 25mm. I would be supporting all the larger Oly Pro lenses, (unless using the smaller Primes handheld) especially the larger zooms.
Cheers

..another bad issue with my pocket 4k!

yes the mount is loose and I have problems pulling focus!!!!

the lens moves up/down when changing focus direction, I can easily feel the lens moving near the mount if I put my finger on it.

It really shows up when using my 85mm cine lens, I would not use a longer lens on this!



...and this thread tells me that it is not my unit but all of them!

I will try a lens support mounted on my rails but what a bummer! ok that is not a super expensive camera but with all the rigging and accessories it ends up way more.... I did not catch this early enough... kind of wish I did not get it now.

The MFT mount t was designed for small, light native lenses, with about a 1.3lb max weight. A 85mm Cine lens is going to exceed that design weight tolerance. I found wiht the original Picket and to some extent the Micro cameras (which had a tighter mount) using a Cine type (Veydra Mini Cine MFT) lens would cause the lens to slightly rotate in the mount. This is caused by the extra resistance of cine lenses, which have a dampened focus ring, which requires some torque to turn.

The only and best solution is to add some form of lens support. I found with the Veydras, using a rail mounted matte box attached to the lens front, did the trick, of stabilizing and supporting thrnlens front, taking pressure off the mount. My PL/MFT adapters for Cine lenses are supported by the Wooden Camera cage, and did the same with the Speed Boosters, to lock the adapter to the camera MFT mount, stop,the rotation and add additional support. But even with this added support, long or heavy Cine lenses need additional support at the Lens middle or front. Even my Oly F/T 14-35 f/2.0 needed its front supported on MFT mount cameras.
Cheers.

thanks for the info.

I have a small amount of vertical play even with small native mft lenses. Smooth focusing takes care of that in most cases. I bet the GH4 etc. have tighter mounts. ...I was planning in using longer lenses on tripod, a lens support might help I'll have to try one.

I was planning on using a rig I already owned but the pocket4k has a very small contact area under it and the camera rocked up and down when focusing... the plate was made for a more square camera with a larger contact point at the bottom. I had to get a new cage, but still the lens moves in the mount! I did not get that at all before ordering the cage...

https://www.spenceracoustics.com/private

wow, that is not nice! this is a native rokinon mft lens with no adapters?

I am new to mft format, I love the small size MFT lenses, but I was thinking of buying native mft cine lenses, I guess I'll need to see a working solution before investing in those.

Yes, I switched using the Wooden Camera PL->mFT Adapter and there’s quite a gap between the sport base on the Shape rails that I need to fill. I’m hoping I have a spare piece that I have from the SLR Magic lens support that will connect the adapter to the rail support. Shame really that the designers of mFT were so myopic and couldn’t foresee the popularity of the mount in the future.

Actually considering them myopic is a compliment as I’ll wager the truth was they were only interested in selling cameras with that mount so they could sell new lenses and didn’t want people repurposing other longer FFD lenses.

In reality, folks like Metabones are including a foot to steady the mFT mount. So not a problem that can’t find a solution when you’re aware of the issue.


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In reality, folks like Metabones are including a foot to steady the mFT mount. So not a problem that can’t find a solution when you’re aware of the issue.

I was planning on avoiding the metabones, I like the smaller mft sized lenses, and with cost and all I would never have bought the camera in the first place if I had know this issue. I am tempted to get rid of it while the 2nd hand market is good... I hate the rolling shutter, the form factor, and the loose mount. Yes it can make nice images but what a bummer. It is not a camera for me I guess. I am 1 month in now.

I had this problem and the fix is easy.Unscrew the lens mount, remove the retaining ring and bend the tabs into a more curved shape and put it back together.

I checked my Pocket 4K, and the lens mount is slightly looser than the Micro camera (both have some slight lens movement, most rotate in the mount a little, but not that it causes issues with MFT or even the larger FT lenses.

MFT mount Cine lenses are going to need support, due to the dampened manual focus rings. On fly-by-wire MFT auto lenses, in normal use, I do not see any significant lens movement that causes any image issues. If you are handholding the camera, yes, you need to be sure not to wiggle the lens around. That said, a slightly tighter lens mount would be grand.
Cheers

I wish Blackmagic use some kind of positive lock M4/3 mount specially designed for cinema cameras. Similar to positive lock in newer Metabones EF adapters.

That would be nice Dmitry.
Cheers

I had this problem and the fix is easy.Unscrew the lens mount, remove the retaining ring and bend the tabs into a more curved shape and put it back together.

really? if I see someone doing it on video, I might try it

I had this problem and the fix is easy.Unscrew the lens mount, remove the retaining ring and bend the tabs into a more curved shape and put it back together.

really? if I see someone doing it on video, I might try it

I would also like to see how to do that, as I have also a very loose lens mount, making it impossible to focus with my Tilta nucleus M without the video moving.



here's a video of focusing and the video moving

I would also like to see how to do that, as I have also a very loose lens mount, making it impossible to focus with my Tilta nucleus M without the video moving.

yes it is a big problem for me too!

That looks like more than normal lens mount movement, I did not notice that much movement on my camera. Which lens was used in the test? Any Speed Booster or adapters?
Cheers

That looks like more than normal lens mount movement, I did not notice that much movement on my camera. Which lens was used in the test? Any Speed Booster or adapters?
Cheers

I used several lenses.
The one I used for the video was native Meike 16mm Cinema lens. But every lens has a lot of play

I had an original Pocket ca era with an out-of-spec loose mount, which with native auto MFT lenses was OK, but the Veydras were looser than the adapted Nikon’s. I would expect the same loose fit for the Meike lenses, since they are the same design. You need to add a lens support to the Veydra/Meike MFT lenses to get correct focus performance without movement. If your native MFT Panny or Olymlenses show this much play side to side then you need to contact BMD Support.
Cheers

I sent mine to service. NO WAY THAT MOUNT IS TOO LOOSE! I can't use a follow focus with a long lens.

But I tried some lens on both a GH5 and a pocket 4k... the lens fit nice and tight on the GH5 and was loose on the pocket4k!!!!

I am really bummed by Blackmagic about this. I cannot understand why this camera has good reputation either... yeah color is nice but LENSES DON'T FIT!

I finally got the approval to send the camera in. They received it on Monday (today is Saturday)

please let me know, I just sent mine....

For those having a loose connection to the mFT mount, approximately when did you receive your camera?


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For those having a loose connection to the mFT mount, approximately when did you receive your camera?

it was end of august for me

August 2019 is very recent. Thanks.


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I noticed I also have a little play in the mFT mount; when I use the Misfit Atom matte box and tighten the clamp, it makes a very firm arrangement with no play when I turn lens gears. And the matte box helps align the lens correctly in its default position.


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The MFT mount is within tolerance but can still have some movement with a lens, as not all lens mounts/ adapters are that strict a tolerance, as it was designed as a still camera mount, some play is acceptable. So the issue is a combo of the camera, and lens mounts being used. I had this issue with my original
Pocket Camera, some lenses fit fine, some too loose and some almost too tight. It is the Goldilocks paradox. I found the Panasonic Leica lenses fit fine, my Mrtabones Speed Booster very firm, and the Veydra Mini Primes loose. Rick’s suggestion is a good solution, I also used for the Veydra Mini Primes. It is this loose fit issue, which led me to go with PL mount for Cine lenses needing a good focus setup.

On the new Pocket 4K, the Metabones specific SB fits tight, my Pana Leica’s OK, with a slight bit of play, which is more noticeable on the 12-60 zoom, but focus by wire lenses are not an issue when usingbthe camera to focus. I do not use manual MFT lenses anymore on the BMD cameras. I have the Metabones SB for my Zeiss ZF Manual Primes, which works quite well, no lens movement in the mount. And I use a PL mount adapter which is also secured to the camera cage.
Cheers.

Good to hear. Another argument for getting the Metabones SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K!


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Would people who had the loose lens mount problem please update this thread? I have the same problem and need to know if BM is repairing the issue. I have contacted BM and will mail the camera in for repair, but I am currently conducting research in Ecuador and have to send back my P4k with someone flying back to the US. A lot of legwork, and I need to know that BM is not simply going to return the camera and say the problem is normal.
Even with my native Panasonic 12-35 2.8 lens, with slight movement of the camera the lens disconnects and I lose iris, autofocus, etc. It is impossible to use the camera in this state.
Please update.
Best,
Jimmy Beveridge

Would people who had the loose lens mount problem please update this thread? I have the same problem and need to know if BM is repairing the issue. I have contacted BM and will mail the camera in for repair, but I am currently conducting research in Ecuador and have to send back my P4k with someone flying back to the US. A lot of legwork, and I need to know that BM is not simply going to return the camera and say the problem is normal.
Even with my native Panasonic 12-35 2.8 lens, with slight movement of the camera the lens disconnects and I lose iris, autofocus, etc. It is impossible to use the camera in this state.
Please update.
Best,
Jimmy Beveridge

Stick a small flat bladed screwdriver into the gap between the lens flange and retaining springs and gently twist to increase the gap and thus increase the tension to hold the lens more tightly to the body.

This helps, but You still get some rotational play in the locking pin, this helps, but you still need to lick the lens with a lens Support or clamping Matt box when using a follow focus on manual lenses.
Cheers

In my case, EVERY lens I put on my P4K including native MTF Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 Vario and also EF lens with the P4k metabones speedbooster disconnects frequently with slight movement of the camera such as simple pans or walking, causing me to lose iris support and autofocus. It’s unusable in this state and it seems reasonable to me that BMD should be able to repair a lens mount loose to such a degree, instead of me having to jab a screwdriver into the camera or rig it with accessories in order to have a reliable camera—lens connection. I’m mailing the P4k in for service. I would like to hear from others who have sent their p4ks to BMD for repair and what were the outcomes, whether BMD made the repairs or not.
Best,
Jimmy

Jimmy, then your Camera has a problem, it should not be that loose. Contact your regional BMD Support Office to arrange a RMA and return the camera for repair. My original Pocket camera has a very loose mount, and I sent it back to BMD to get it fixed.
Cheers

In my case, EVERY lens I put on my P4K including native MTF Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 Vario and also EF lens with the P4k metabones speedbooster disconnects frequently with slight movement of the camera such as simple pans or walking, causing me to lose iris support and autofocus. It’s unusable in this state and it seems reasonable to me that BMD should be able to repair a lens mount loose to such a degree, instead of me having to jab a screwdriver into the camera or rig it with accessories in order to have a reliable camera—lens connection. I’m mailing the P4k in for service. I would like to hear from others who have sent their p4ks to BMD for repair and what were the outcomes, whether BMD made the repairs or not.
Best,
Jimmy

My advice with the screwdriver was based on your particular circumstance in the field. My mount was similarly loose but as I’ve had to do it on other (non BM ) cameras in the past I fixed it myself and didn’t return it to BM.

The spring trick is good to tighten up a mount, but Jimmy then stated the locking pin was not holding the lens, allowing for the lens to back off on the camera. I do not think adjusting the spring would solve this issue.
Cheers

I also own a manufacturing business, making machined parts. What this non locking lens event likely involves is a camera lens mount that is either dimensionally out of the MFT mount standard tolerances, or the mount dimensions are using up all the tolerances. e.g. sloppy and "all over" between the high and low limits of the allowable dimensions.

On these lens mounts a dimension delta by only a few thousandths of an inch makes a difference in between having a tight fit; and/or if the lens rotates fully when connected and locks on securely or not.

I recently had TWO SLR Magic lenses that would fit fine and also locked property onto my GH4 And GH5 however the lenses would not "lock on" to my BMPCC4K. They never "clicked in" to the body. Useless. Two separate lenses.

If the lens does not rotate fully when mounting, to the proper angle even if off by a very small fraction of an angle, the small spring loaded pin on the camera body will not "click in fully" into the small recessed hole that is on the lens's mount. The lens wont lock on.

I fixed my troublesome lens, making them lock properly on both the BMPCC4K and still locked properly on my GH4 and GH5. I didnt want to send my camera back to BMD.

For the fix, I had to remove metal, take off (reduce the diameter) .005 of an inch on the Outside diameter of the small screw head that is on the MFT lens in question. This small little screw on these lenses sole function is that it acts as a rotational stop. The lens must rotate an adequate amount, for the camera mount spring pin to fully seat into the lens' recessed small oval hole. Those holes on lenses vary in size slightly.

If the pin on the camera mount is in the wrong angular location, it may take a slightly more rotation of the lens for pen to engage the lens' hole. A quick fix is to install a screw on the lens, that has a smaller diameter head on that screw, allows the lens to rotate a fraction of a degree more, allowing the camera's spring loaded locking pen to engage the lens's recessed hole. Problem solved.

Time was of the essence for me, no time to ship my camera to BMD, so I modified the small screw on my troublesom lens small screw as follows. The fix did not involve the camera, and allowed all other lenses to fit the BMPCC4K as prior, and the lens I modified fit my Panny cameras after the modificaation.

As I did not have access to a lathe at the time and needed a quick fix: I removed that small screw with a small jewlers Phillips head screwdriver. I mounted a small DREMEL motor using clamps to my workbench. I gently held the small screw in the Dremels tiny chuck, careful not to over tighten it. I then spun the screw at a low RPM, and gently "hit" the outside diameter of the screw head with a small fine file. It takes some fineness. I had calipers and was able to take off mannually some metal by about .005 of an inch. Then remounted the screw into the lens. After that adjustment, the lens properly locked on the BMPCC4K and my Panny cameras.

And I too have other lenses, and adapters that fit as varying degree of sloppyness.. on the BMPCC4K than on the Panny cameras. My experience with my lenses, adapters, leads me to believe that the dimensions on the camera's mount is what we call in the machining business "all over the place".