The high speed possibility

Just looking at the specs of the 4K production camera, based on what we know about the technology, is there any possibility to firmware update it to be able to shoot high speed in the future? I mean, a mode with higher compression, cropped sensor, turning of global shutter etc.?

Thoughts

Has been discussed here many times.

The consensus seems to be that higher frame rates aren't likely to be enabled via a firmware update with any currently announced BMD camera, either not ever, or at least not any time soon. Why? Because it's difficult or impossible and/or expensive to implement with the hardware. Why was the hardware chosen? To keep cost down. For example, the BMPC-4K is relatively inexpensive for what it's promised to do on BMD's spec sheet.

Don't buy a camera based on what it might do "someday" or "theoretically", because it may never happen.

The BMPC-4K hardware & software bundle will be a fantastic value as-is. Hopefully we'll know more about it between now and 8/1/2013!

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With higher compression together with sensor cropping, enabling to shut of global shutter etc. should make it work. If you look at the DSLR magic lantern hack, those cameras should not be able to produce those RAW images, but the hardware is enough for it, so not being able to enable high speed on this current tech is absolutely something that might be done. I'm not talking about 4K high speed with the current DNG compression, I'm talking about the same process as with the Red One system where you could crop the sensor down and up the compression to enable 120 fps.

In the real world, where people get paid to do hardware/software development, testing, and marketing -- e.g.: not in the Magic Latern world* -- you're not paying BMD to add "advanced" features to their existing or announced cameras.

BMD's existing & announced camera prices cover the cost to design & support them for as long as BMD continues selling them.

Given BMD's relatively low prices on their cameras, adding significant capabilities to the cams after the fact (after initial ship) would seem extremely unlikely. "Significant capabilities" cost real companies significant money to design & support. You're not paying for that (with the current cams), so it's not likely to happen. There's no free lunch in the real world.

Certainly future BMD cameras will include new, significant improvements compared to their existing cams. Maybe next year, or the year after.

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* Of course, we don't really know if Canon is paying for ML development, regardless of what ML's authors may have to say on the subject.

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If you look at the DSLR magic lantern hack, those cameras should not be able to produce those RAW images, but the hardware is enough for it, so not being able to enable high speed on this current tech is absolutely something that might be done.

You do realise Canon have a very good reason for encouraging ML. It adds features to their cameras at no cost to them. THe level of QA it has to pass is lower to, so less stability is accepted.

It also allows the hardware to be pushed further than safety limits allow. One of the main reasons for restricting performance is to keep the failure rate down. Hell there are entire lines of products that are effectively built form high end parts that failed QA (but only by certain amounts) and were restricted in a lower end product. The Scarlet is exibit A here, its basically an Epic that boards werent quite up to snuff.

In short a hack in certain cases is benificial to a company, it can add things outside the operating margins of the hardware without any risk to their bottom line through warrenty obligations. (Canon's warrenty policy on ML ispretty much that ML only invalidates warrenties if it can be tracesd as the cause, the raw hack caused them specifically to exclude sensor overheating damage while ML was running.)

If it is or isn't possible we can only guess. Some manufacturers build cameras that have a lot of "headroom" for improvements, especially if they want to create a whole series of bodies for different markets - the canon cameras are a good example. Other manufacturers go to the limits of their hardware already, so there is not much room for improvements later on. We just don't know how progressive or conservative BMs engineers are...

Yet even if it was actually possible to built the suggested features in firmware, we don't know if BM would even think about improving the cameras once sold. They will of course fix bugs and probably fine tune some settings - but why not keep those desirable updates for a future revision of the camera? Once you saturated the market, you need to convince your customers to buy again - a "mark two" version of an established camera has a lot of potential for follow-up buyers.

How do you know the hardware supports it?

First camera was 2.5k for $3k, then 4k for $4k, we might see 50 frames for $5k next year...

To me, more resolution won't be a focus after the 4k is released, then it'll become more about frames per second. Although data rates to the storage device will be an issue.

But its doubtful it'll be as simple as switching on a setting in the existing camera, even if it does appear in the same form factor when it's released.

How do you know the hardware supports it?

Didn't say that, quite the opposite. We don't know, even if we (might) know that the sensor itself is capable of higher framerates; there's much more silicon inside the camera that might limit the framerates.

Didn't say that, quite the opposite. We don't know, even if we (might) know that the sensor itself is capable of higher framerates; there's much more silicon inside the camera that might limit the framerates.

Sorry Mac, should have been clearer. OP has said hardware supports it.

Sensor looks like a good starting point, but if they need to go with a Redmag-style setup for data rates does that change the whole offering?

I think we are looking at two years from now before Blackmagic can offer a new range of cameras with 60fps or more, next year I think might be too optimistic. Moore's law will kick in and new technology will have the headroom and be fast enough at the price point, and SSD tech should be faster too.

Their cameras are cheap enough to upgrade or get news ones so they can probably count on me for repeat business

Jules