Why is BMPCC4k not Netflix Approved?

What makes bmpcc4k fall short of Netflix approved cameras?

The price. Nothing else. They just check checkboxes in an arcane requirements list and if something's too cheap, they think it's not worth it.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

John also ump 4.6k not delivery a true 4k 1:1 sampling sensor, if i remember correctly it should reach enought 5.4k to match a 4k with a bayer matrix, but it's approved from netflix.
They approved also panasonic sh01, which shot in compressed signal and only some setup is approved.
and at same time they not approved Alexa be cause not meet 4k resolution.
i think like Eugenia says, too cheap for their standard (theorically).

Anyway is not a big problem, the approved camera is only if you want to sell like Netflix Original, but if you sell like Netflix original you reiceve enought money to use every red like crash cam.
On netflix catalog there are many title shooted on lower lower cameras, there is an italian title shooted in old dvcam, but praised in several festivals.

BMPCC4K is m43 sensor and not a S35 or Vista Vision. No M43 or way less than true S35 cameras are Netflix approved.

Anyone hurt on behalf of the BMPCC 4K can take comfort that the vast number of Alexas in the field don't quality either.

That aside, this Netflix requirement only applies to A-cams (you could still use a BMPCC 4K, for up to 10%), and unless you're under contract to Netflix to produce a movie or show, it doesn't matter anyway. Whether they buy independently produced material isn't based on what camera was used.

The. Netflix. List. Is. Not. Important.

1) The list only applies to NETFLIX PARTNER PROJECTS. If you make a good film on your iPhone, you can sell it to Netflix.

2) The Pocket 4k DOES meet the tech requirements.

Short answer is this: Make a good film and it doesn't matter what you shoot it on.

Folks I've been through the process before. So here it is and a couple of folks got pretty much close to the correct responses:
1. What Eugenia said - Price. It's a check the box process.
2. It has to be Super35 or higher sensor and can deliver 4K 23.976 at the least. Hence BMPCC M43 won't pass checklist.
All this only applies for NETFLIX ORIGINAL production. If you have films produced outside of Netflix, camera technology is irrelevant. Other factors like content and Netflix interest still applies.

For what it's worth, the Netflix Original film 'Paris is Us' was shot with the BMPCC -- first generation 2.5K, if I'm not mistaken. (The movie looks gorgeous.)

Netflix acquired it after it was produced. It was not a netflix production from the beginning.

Netflix acquired it after it was produced. It was not a netflix production from the beginning.

Exactly -- which what happens with most indie / foreign films that show up under the 'Netflix Original' banner. The only time 'approved cameras' come into the discussion is when they write you a check prior to filming. But if they were giving you an actual budget, you could just move up to an Ursa, or similar camera and the BMPCC4K would likely not be a factor.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

The resolution isn't the reason. There are several cameras on the Netflix approved list that have 4K native resolution, like Panasonic's Varicams.

The belief that you need higher resolution than your target resolution is pretty bogus. Photographers print images at native resolution routinely, for magazines and galleries where image quality matters a great deal, and have no need for downsampling to achieve this. A lot of films are mastered in 2K and up-rezzed to 4K for delivery, and they still look great.

The. Netflix. List. Is. Not. Important.

It's ONLY for prestige -- if you want to convince a producer that your camera is "good enough" for their production... "Well, it's on the Netflix list." Other than that, it means nothing outside of Netflix partner productions.

Short answer is this: Make a good film and it doesn't matter what you shoot it on.

Yeah, none of the streamers care about what camera you used if you're selling them a film you've already made as long as the buyer you get it in front of likes it.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

The resolution isn't the reason. There are several cameras on the Netflix approved list that have 4K native resolution, like Panasonic's Varicams.

The belief that you need higher resolution than your target resolution is pretty bogus. Photographers print images at native resolution routinely, for magazines and galleries where image quality matters a great deal, and have no need for downsampling to achieve this. A lot of films are mastered in 2K and up-rezzed to 4K for delivery, and they still look great.

It's 1:1 sampling without an OLPF which is the major problem with regards to moire and aliasing which also isn't such an issue with stills as the motion element exaggerates it. Subsampling from higher resolutions is not at all bogus (even pretty bogus) and is a standard practice in any A/D and D/A conversion. When a digital image is printed it gets transformed differently to when it's projected as there is the inkjet dot pattern in the mix so you can't relate gallery prints to cinema easily.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

I’m sorry but how is this comment relevant to the OP’s question? You can’t be talking about Netflix approved cameras or the bmpcc4k? So what’s the deal here? I don’t get it.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

I’m sorry but how is this comment relevant to the OP’s question? You can’t be talking about Netflix approved cameras or the bmpcc4k? So what’s the deal here? I don’t get it.

I don’t understand your question either? Are you saying the P4k doesn’t have a 1:1 sampling sensor and doesn’t have moire and aliasing issues?

They will likely not approve the 6k either, which will be arbitrary at best since it is s35 and 6k. Kinifinity is not approved and more than exceeds minimum standards.

The truth is though, unless you have an upfront deal it doesn't matter. If you are making a small personal indie film like Paris is Us, or Cosmos, the original pocket is more than good enough and can be sold, so by extension the P4k is more than good enough if that is what you have.

If you step up to indies with decent budget and name actors hoping to show at Sundance, or other major festivals, the top camera is Alexa Mini, not Netflix approved, but it makes the most beautiful Hollywood image. The best of those are generally bought by Netflix or Amazon and presented as originals.

So much bad information.

The reason the P4K isn’t on the list is because Netflix require a DEDICATED Timecode input connector.

That’s the only reason. (You’ll notice the Ursa line is listed)

The Panasonic S1H has a dedicated TC input cable.

The P4K / P6K do have TC input connections, but they are “shared” as an Audio input.

The port on the S1H is also technically shared but not when used as a video camera (it’s on a flash port that’s used for firing a flash for stills mode)

And it doesn’t really matter because there’s more Alexa shot content on Netflix than any other camera and they are not approved.

JB

Are you saying the P4k doesn’t have a 1:1 sampling sensor and doesn’t have moire and aliasing issues?

No I don’t imply that. But can you tell which camera on the Netflix list fulfill both of these criteria’s? What is the tolerance?

So much bad information.

The reason the P4K isn’t on the list is because Netflix require a DEDICATED Timecode input connector.

That’s the only reason. (You’ll notice the Ursa line is listed)

The Panasonic S1H has a dedicated TC input cable.

The P4K / P6K do have TC input connections, but they are “shared” as an Audio input.

The port on the S1H is also technically shared but not when used as a video camera (it’s on a flash port that’s used for firing a flash for stills mode)

And it doesn’t really matter because there’s more Alexa shot content on Netflix than any other camera and they are not approved.

JB

Only 3 Ursa Mini, the original 4.6k, G1 and G2 are listed.
The big Ursa and Ursa Mini 4k is not listed. What was the reason for them not being included?

P4k aliasing and moiré problems????

Oh, come on!

P4k aliasing and moiré problems????

Oh, come on!

Yes it's true!

Only 3 Ursa Mini, the original 4.6k, G1 and G2 are listed.
The big Ursa and Ursa Mini 4k is not listed. What was the reason for them not being included?

For the same reason the Panavision DXL1, Red One, Red One MX, RED EPIC MX, Aaton Penelope and Dalsa Origin 4K isn’t.

JB

Only 3 Ursa Mini, the original 4.6k, G1 and G2 are listed.
The big Ursa and Ursa Mini 4k is not listed. What was the reason for them not being included?

For the same reason the Panavision DXL1, Red One, Red One MX, RED EPIC MX, Aaton Penelope and Dalsa Origin 4K isn’t.

JB

If it was because they were older EOL cameras then the Ursa Mini 4k I recall were of similar vintage to the original UM 4.6k but the latter made it to the Netflix approve list. Also when the UM 4.6k and UM Pro was first included on the list a few years ago the Ursa Mini 4k was still a current product along with the other two. In fact the Ursa Mini 4k became EOL a few months after the original UM 4.6k, at least on BMD website.

If it was because they were older EOL cameras then the Ursa Mini 4k I recall were of similar vintage to the original UM 4.6k but the latter made it to the Netflix approve list. Also when the UM 4.6k and UM Pro was first included on the list a few years ago the Ursa Mini 4k was still a current product along with the other two. In fact the Ursa Mini 4k became EOL a few months after the original UM 4.6k, at least on BMD website.

I’m not really sure why it matters ? Do you have a show up with Netflix and want to shoot with a UM4K ?

This seems trivial and petty ?

JB

If it was because they were older EOL cameras then the Ursa Mini 4k I recall were of similar vintage to the original UM 4.6k but the latter made it to the Netflix approve list. Also when the UM 4.6k and UM Pro was first included on the list a few years ago the Ursa Mini 4k was still a current product along with the other two. In fact the Ursa Mini 4k became EOL a few months after the original UM 4.6k, at least on BMD website.

I’m not really sure why it matters ? Do you have a show up with Netflix and want to shoot with a UM4K ?

This seems trivial and petty ?

JB

Aside from the genuine doubt of the OP, the whole topic is!

Am I the only one who has seen 4GOT10 on Netflix? I think now you can only get it on Netflix's DVD service. It looks like they have a special tool mounted on their URSA's top handle, what do you think it is?

https://indieshooter.com/4got10-filmed- ... lose-14692

Ryan, i think it’s the director!

If Netflix funds your film, this entire thread of conversation and the OP's original question is irrelevant. You will be renting one of the approve cameras - end of story.

Does “Netflix Approved” mean your film is eligible to be financed by them?

If not, how does Netflix know what camera you shot on when you deliver the finished product?

Does “Netflix Approved” mean your film is eligible to be financed by them?

If not, how does Netflix know what camera you shot on when you deliver the finished product?

This stupid list that everyone deifies is ONLY relevant to when Netflix hire YOU to create content for them from scratch.

If you're selling a doco or film or series that's already completed or partially shot on whatever camera it was shot with, then they don't care.

This list only applies to a "Netflix originals" show.

Most shows on Netflix aren't Netflix Originals.

JB

And to be fair if you’re named Damien Chazelle they’ll let you shoot on 16mm film which even the most die hard film fan will struggle to argue has 4K of usable image information.

And I think if we’re all being honest 99.99% of us aren’t currently in development or commission at Netflix so it’s probably not worth sweating about

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

Top rated series "The Crown" was shot 4K with a 1:1 sensor. I don't remember it being a problem for Netflix.

If it was because they were older EOL cameras then the Ursa Mini 4k I recall were of similar vintage to the original UM 4.6k but the latter made it to the Netflix approve list. Also when the UM 4.6k and UM Pro was first included on the list a few years ago the Ursa Mini 4k was still a current product along with the other two. In fact the Ursa Mini 4k became EOL a few months after the original UM 4.6k, at least on BMD website.

I’m not really sure why it matters ? Do you have a show up with Netflix and want to shoot with a UM4K ?

This seems trivial and petty ?

JB

People gave their opinions but wether some or all of it was the real reason for the subject in question you along with the rest of us are all held in equal contempt of this trivial pettiness.
Personally I'm not bothered which cameras Netflix approve but since it was brought up we like yourself gave our fair views.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

Top rated series "The Crown" was shot 4K with a 1:1 sensor. I don't remember it being a problem for Netflix.

All Netflix requires is a "true 4K UHD sensor (equal to or greater than 3840 photosites wide)". Not a word about actual measurable resolution. Normally, rule of thumb, you wouldn't expect such a sensor to produce "true" measurable UHD.

It's can't deliver true 4k as it's got a 1:1 sampling sensor. Also likley the moire and aliasing would be an issue.

Top rated series "The Crown" was shot 4K with a 1:1 sensor. I don't remember it being a problem for Netflix.

With or without OLPF?

People gave their opinions but wether some or all of it was the real reason for the subject in question you along with the rest of us are all held in equal contempt of this trivial pettiness.
Personally I'm not bothered which cameras Netflix approve but since it was brought up we like yourself gave our fair views.

I told you the real reason for the OP’s question. I know because I have that knowledge first hand (as to the WHY)

You’re the one that’s dragging this on into a pointless discussion.

Yeah, I feel contemptuous towards this kind of pedantry towards specs that don’t have any true impact or meaning to most of us. Myself included.

The true answer to your question was probably that they didn’t have anyone ask to use an Ursa so they never went though the testing process, which is extensive and takes quite some time to do, AND it was pretty close to when Netflix were starting to formalise and even publish this list that used to only be an internal document.

But you wanted to make a petty point so I guess you got to do that. Bravo. What does your point actually prove ? That Netflix could have “approved” but chose not to do so....therefore...?? Please tell us what the true meaning here is of an Ursa not being approved when it should have been....Why did you feel you needed to bring this to everyone’s attention ?

JB

In my experience, the major reason the approved list is so deified is because it works with clients. I have spent endless hours trying to explain why a $499 "4K" handy cam that records mpg H264 4:2:0 footage cannot be used to shoot green screen for a plausible theatrical production that I just gave up and say "You want to be able to sell it to Netflix, you gotta use the camera on the list". Shuts 'em right up.

And some cameras on the approved list might have some weird things going on that I wouldn’t choose to buy if I was shooting independently or on spec. s1h. . .

With or without OLPF?

"Camera Requirements

Please note, not all cameras that meet these requirements will be approved as primary cameras. These requirements are the minimum specifications necessary for consideration. Other attributes must be taken into account such as dynamic range, form factor, stability, workflow compatibility etc.

-OLPF not a requirement in the spec.
-Sensor size (except minimum 4096 horizontal); not a requirement in the spec.
-Oversampling; not a requirement in the spec.

Does P4k meet all the listed specs? Yes. So what? It's still not approved. It's explained above, Netflix prerogative. What's to worry? There are some approved budget cameras to choose from. If you want to shoot with a Netflix approved camera, just get one of them and shoot your feature.