honesty and communication please

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Brian Self

  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 pm
  • Location: Saskatoon Canada

honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 2:45 am

*Ask, and ye shall receive! Thank you grant! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1288


Hey there, I wanted to make a post here letting you guys know about an issue that many of us on bmcuser.net have been concerned and chatting about. I wont speak for everyone and will invite them to air their concerns as a reply to this thread but I know for me, this forum was a nice step in the right direction but I believe honest communication with your future camera customers has been very poorly dealt with thus far. If you look at this from an outsider's point of view, your stories aren't adding up, your updates are vague at best and your expectations that you are setting are obviously unrealistic.

I don't expect you to tell us info that would get you sued, but just be honest and say "we are saying this because we legally cannot say anymore." And from what you do tell us, please if you can do a better job of explaining it, like why weren't there more units ready? Why did you think you could ship back in august or july? Why have you been keeping your distributers out of the loop?

I will stop there, but the point of all this is, I think a lot of us feel that you guys can do a better job of giving out regular updates and being a little more clear and transparent about the development of this camera. I think what you are doing is revolutionary, and I am very excited about the product, I will probably purchase 10 of them, but I can't help but hope that you guys know how you are on the cusp of really revolutionizing our industry and that the release of this product is really important to all of us. Big hugs, thanks so much guys for listening.
Last edited by Brian Self on Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
Brian Self - Wedding Filmmaker/Cinematographer
www.brianself.me
Offline
User avatar

PetePolyakov

  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am
  • Location: Westport, CT

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 2:47 am

+1
Offline

bhook

  • Posts: 1024
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 2:49 am

As I've said in the past...please...keep us in the loop with regular communication. Please...answer the obvious questions that you simply have to be aware of. Please.
Offline

Brett Harrison

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:12 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 2:56 am

Where's Julian Assange when you need him?

Seriously though, you don't get a more definitive answer than: 'we don't know', which is what they have said.

The why's and wherefore's are BMD's business.
Offline

Eric Santiago

  • Posts: 520
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:03 am

A little transparency can go a long way.
I do respect BMDs previous post back in Sept 14th and most of us have backed off.
But some of us have invested a fair amount of time and resources on this product.
I am not one of them and can wait for it to drop, but I am sure there are others that are bit more passionate about this product than I :)
Offline
User avatar

Nick Bedford

  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 am
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:24 am

I must say, I'm getting past the point of "just waiting and being patient".

I still don't understand how "Shipping in August" lead to "There goes the 10 units we manufactured for the worldwide release". (10 being an exaggeration given my outsider's perspective of the situation).

Many people say, "Just go hire a RED or something" to which I respond, "I can't afford a damn RED! I can only afford a Blackmagic to which I've already paid for."
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
Offline

Jason Davis

  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:57 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:29 am

While I respect the 14th of September post, I wish there was followup to that post. I for one sold my entire Canon kit ( 2 5DMKIIs and 1 7D ) to fund the purchase of this camera and I am stuck shooting video with my Nikon until this gets released. It's really frustrating seeing no updates, but seeing more and more " test footage " from more and more unknown film makers.
Offline
User avatar

Nick Bedford

  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 am
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:41 am

Jason Davis wrote:stuck shooting video with my Nikon


I feel for you man. :lol:

/jks
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
Offline
User avatar

samuelchristopher

  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:55 am

Agreed

I'm a student from the UK and I made the commitment toward this camera by selling my Canon 7D to afford the BMCC because I really set my mind and wanted to achieve getting this camera that I felt would finally give me the level of professionalism I strive for that I get with my stills work. All in anticipation of that August release date, do you guys remember that date? This has meant Ive been camera-less and creative-less for 2 months now and that is so painful and frustrating when you see a few video of this camera coming out and this lack of communication.

Please Blackmagic talk out loud and give us some hope that it's likely we will get one of these cameras in our hands sooner rather than later. Don't do a Redrock Mirco Remote and say its coming out at NAB every year for 3 years and string all the pre-orders along. And dont do a RED Scarlett on us either.
Samuel Christopher
@samchristopher
www.samuelchristopher.co.uk
Offline

Jason Davis

  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:57 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 4:16 am

samuelchristopher wrote:Agreed

Please Blackmagic talk out loud and give us some hope that it's likely we will get one of these cameras in our hands sooner rather than later. Don't do a Redrock Mirco Remote and say its coming out at NAB every year for 3 years and string all the pre-orders along. And dont do a RED Scarlett on us either.


The thing that really sucks is that you would think that people would have thought about this before they " released " or even announced the camera. When RED announced the RED it took forever to release the thing, and the same with the Scarlet, and then to boot, just like the BMCC they change the plans after preorders are made. Even further, for us that have sold their main and have pre-ordered, there is a " restocking " fee of up to 25% of the fee paid, so that means that I could end up paying $750 just to pull out of my preorder.

Nick Bedford wrote:
Jason Davis wrote:stuck shooting video with my Nikon


I feel for you man. :lol:

/jks


I knew there would be one...lol...it's nice but still it's no 5DMKII and that's no BMCC
Offline

Micah Van Hove

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:13 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 4:42 am

Hold me closer tiny camera
http://www.umuima.com
Offline
User avatar

Nick Bedford

  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 am
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 4:44 am

Baby Alexa, where art thou?
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
Offline
User avatar

Tony Hudson

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:12 am
  • Location: Petaluma, CA

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 4:46 am

samuelchristopher wrote:Agreed

I'm a student from the UK and I made the commitment toward this camera by selling my Canon 7D to afford the BMCC because I really set my mind and wanted to achieve getting this camera that I felt would finally give me the level of professionalism I strive for that I get with my stills work. All in anticipation


Ditto here. I sold my 5D, bought my SDD's, battery solution, cage, new MacBook Pro, etc, etc, etc....I've been sitting and waiting and going insane as I see all of the beautiful footage coming out of the BMCC, in particular Marco's comp shoot and Jon Carr shoot. All I've got left to shoot with is my Iphone4 :(
___________________
Tony Hudson
www.fxvet.net
www.linkedin.com/in/fxvet
https://vimeo.com/fxvet
Offline

Coralio Ballester

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 6:52 am

Many sad stories out there... This should get to an end soon in some way.
Offline

Dan Pears

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:38 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 7:56 am

What projects are you guys so keen to produce that you need the BMC for?

In Melbourne Australia you can rent a Scarlet or F3 package for about $500 a day, or $2000 a week. A few of you have mentioned the thousands in accessories or computers you've spent, and Nick if I'm not mistaken you've purchased a 5D iii? Why not use this money renting a cinema camera, since that's what it seems you all want, for urgent projects that are waiting on a Blackmagic cinema camera?
Offline

Martin Scanlan

  • Posts: 33
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:49 am
  • Location: London

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 9:43 am

I think if we had some kind of idea then we could plan accordingly. I'm in a similar position in that I'm happy to rent for paid jobs but I'd just like some idea of when that might change. It's no different for me than when I put in an invoice that doesn't get paid, if I get communication and a clear idea of what's happening I generally don't kick up a fuss, when I get ignored I get annoyed. This seems to be happening at all levels at the moment, the distributors don't know any more than anyone else. I think all people really want is a little communication which isn't too much to ask.
Offline
User avatar

Pat Horridge

  • Posts: 75
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:34 pm
  • Location: Hoxton Sq London UK

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:03 am

I must say I'm very surprised to see this topic and no response from BM to it.

Before this forum I had grave concerns over BM as a serious supplier with it's public presence being on Creative COW. A great place but as your only public presence...worrying.

We haev some BM products and have had patching results in communications. Sometimes good more often nothing.

Support doesn't seem to really exist.

Now they have this forum and it's great but it has to be monitored and managed and that doesn't seem to be happening. I know other forums help solve this by bring on users as moderators to help respond and pass up growning issues so they can be dealt with before they develop.

As somebody who has to look at kit to purchase it's not just how good the kit is and the price it's the company behind it that matters and I think a lot of people are thinking the same way.
Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, ACI, ACSR,
VET Production Editing Digital Media Blu-ray DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US
Offline
User avatar

Mark de Jeu

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:42 pm
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 11:08 am

... it's the company behind it that matters ...


I agree wholeheartedly with above quote I pulled from Pat's posting, and this is one of the reasons I am so excited to have my BMCC on order. I really like everything I have seen about this company. Their approach to the market, their product mix, their focus, their leadership, their employees (those I have seen and read), their expertise, their humility, their communication, and their honesty. At every turn. The Grant Petty interview really solidified it for me (thank you, Rick Young). This is a company I want to do business with. I can't think of a close second in this industry.

Blackmagic is offering a product that has stunned the market. Customers are shooting with this product. Production has encountered challenges, as will happen (especially with complex technologies that depend on elements that are both in and out of their control). Blackmagic has communicated the issue with us openly and honestly, which is very much appreciated.

I understand the excitement and anticipation that many of us feel. Some of us will visit this site daily with the burning question, "When will we get there?" While Blackmagic has told us they will let us know more when they are able, patience is harder for some than for others. I imagine it is especially difficult for those who, in their excitement, committed to customers or sold all they had in preparation for receiving something so technically remarkable.

The one point I do agree with is that Blackmagic does not appear to invest a lot of time and talent moderating online forums. I like this about them. Those who spend a bit of their time in this and other online forums will likely disagree with me. Other companies invest substantially in online communication, and individuals who value that approach should weigh that feature in favor of those companies when making a purchase decision.

In short, add my voice to those who do not agree with the title and proposition of the original poster.

Respectfully,

Mark de Jeu
Last edited by Mark de Jeu on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Offline

Carlos Núñez

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:28 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 1:12 pm

Just give us weekly updates so we know to have faith, staying in the dark brings frustration and desire to go elsware
Offline
User avatar

PetePolyakov

  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am
  • Location: Westport, CT

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Pat Horridge wrote:I must say I'm very surprised to see this topic and no response from BM to it.

Before this forum I had grave concerns over BM as a serious supplier with it's public presence being on Creative COW. A great place but as your only public presence...worrying.

We haev some BM products and have had patching results in communications. Sometimes good more often nothing.

Support doesn't seem to really exist.

Now they have this forum and it's great but it has to be monitored and managed and that doesn't seem to be happening. I know other forums help solve this by bring on users as moderators to help respond and pass up growning issues so they can be dealt with before they develop.

As somebody who has to look at kit to purchase it's not just how good the kit is and the price it's the company behind it that matters and I think a lot of people are thinking the same way.


+1
Offline

Jason Davis

  • Posts: 56
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:57 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 2:56 pm

Dan Pears wrote:What projects are you guys so keen to produce that you need the BMC for?

In Melbourne Australia you can rent a Scarlet or F3 package for about $500 a day, or $2000 a week. A few of you have mentioned the thousands in accessories or computers you've spent, and Nick if I'm not mistaken you've purchased a 5D iii? Why not use this money renting a cinema camera, since that's what it seems you all want, for urgent projects that are waiting on a Blackmagic cinema camera?


As many have stated, we have sold our previous shooting kits to afford this one. The extra accessories and computers purchased were to support the jump in camera hardware and were a calculated expense at the time. Renting is a novel thought and would work, but when you you have already spent the budgeted money on the camera, you are stuck without $500 to rent a camera, let alone 2k for a week, I'm not sure about you, but I don't know of many things that you can shoot in a 24 hour period marathon. I've done it, but it was hell on Earth. I think the general thought in this whole forum is communication. I have a small thought that when BMD catches wind of this and they don't have any good news for us the forum will mysteriously go down. I'm pulling for BM though, I have no I'll feelings, but I was hoping they didn't go the way of RED which seems like they are.
Offline

Eric Santiago

  • Posts: 520
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 3:18 pm

Jason Davis wrote:I'm pulling for BM though, I have no I'll feelings, but I was hoping they didn't go the way of RED which seems like they are.


I was there during most RED late deliveries, they were transparent about it.
They had enough moderators jumping and explaining the goings on.
Sure they didn't deliver the right option but they were there every step of the way.

Adam Farnsworth

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Agreed, at this point it's gotten to a point of frustration. As almost everyone on here as said, we just want an update. Silence seems like a really weird business strategy.

Please, Blackmagic, give us some indication you haven't just sold us an empty promise.
Offline

tompierrepont

  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:49 am
  • Location: England

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:08 pm

I'm overall pretty satisfied with the wait so far and that's not disagree with everyone else. Each one of us are in different situations and some need more information than others.

I do agree with all the above posts though, transparency is good and even if you guys don't have an update on shipping, just to hear another 'Nothing new to report this week.' goes down well with me, it's not about hearing something new, it's about presence.
Tom Pierrepont - Freelance Camera Operator (UK)
@Tompierrepont
www.tompierrepont.com
Offline
User avatar

Andrew Usher

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:04 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:16 pm

I with everyone on the updates. It only takes a second to post, nothing new etc.

A.
Offline

Andrew McMurry

  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:41 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:37 pm

Have you guys tried calling them? I called and a gentleman spoke with me about everything that has been going on. Something was holding them up in Australia I believe, but they just got that sorted out.

Anyway, he said they're trying to ramp things up now and expects all the pre-orders to be delivered in October-November.
Offline

bhook

  • Posts: 1024
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:39 pm

If that is the case, where is the announcement that was promised 9-14-12? There is obviously something "new" to tell us about, isn't there?
Offline

Carlos Núñez

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:28 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 5:56 pm

I don't think BM wants or needs all of us calling them( we'd bring down their switchboard) just a one liner with an update will do. good or bad just communicate...
Offline

RichDorato

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 8:02 pm

+1 some communication is long overdue
www.whoatemyteeth.com
Offline

leobaker

  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:04 pm

Probably the cameras will be ready next year maybe shipping by March. I did not put an order on the Black Magic Cinema camera until it is readily available to order and all the bugs worked out.
Offline

Eli hershko

  • Posts: 357
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Location: Nassau County, NY

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:22 pm

+1 and in favor of some info here from BMD
Eli Hershko
http://www.conjuredvisions.com
http://pro.imdb.com/name/nm2860666/
Offline

paul schefz

  • Posts: 149
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:53 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:37 pm

not sure what is worse: people selling off their gear to get something that has been delayed so often...or people asking for outrageous features/upgrades or price drops on cameras that haven't even started shipping....or people defending a completely lost cause.....
yes...there really should be someone from BM on this forum providing updates...even if the news is no news....because as we all know silence does not equal no news....just stirs up rumors...
Offline

Mark Wilhelm

  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:38 pm
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: honesty and communication please

PostMon Sep 24, 2012 10:44 pm

pss wrote:not sure what is worse: people selling off their gear to get something that has been delayed so often...or people asking for outrageous features/upgrades or price drops on cameras that haven't even started shipping....or people defending a completely lost cause.....
yes...there really should be someone from BM on this forum providing updates...even if the news is no news....because as we all know silence does not equal no news....just stirs up rumors...

There are folks on the forum answering questions and cleaning up arguments. Look for the orange and green usernames! :)
Offline

Jerome Olivier

  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:55 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 12:31 am

No offense guys, but BlackMagic's doing a standup job communicating with its customers.

<old man in rocking chair> Expect less from others, demand more from yourself. BlackMagic's not responsible for people making dumb choices - like selling their current gear to afford something that isn't even available. If you need a camera now for a job or school project, use another - the market's overflowing with options. </old man in rocking chair>

Sit tight and relax. Life is good.
Offline

RichDorato

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 2:08 am

Agree to disagree.

I've heard drastically different information from various resellers on when they expect the first units, some saying maybe in another month, later this winter, or possibly next year, while BMD have only briefly told us it's shipping right now AND they're waiting to solve a vague parts issue (the latest in a series of somehow unseen delay excuses that were given almost immediately after "shipping in days not weeks" updates were made).

For many months we've been hearing this over hyped "shipping soon/now" from BMD. I can understand why many people very early on the lists, who ordered back in April, thought they were safe in assuming that a camera with a July release date would have arrived by October.

Professionally, I'm often consulted on choosing what equipment is purchased for various productions. In the past dealing with every manufacturer, big or small, old or new, there has been clear communication on production/order status, making it easy to get a cost signed off on. The general consensus I've experienced around LA this summer has been that Blackmagic are not trusted. Specs on paper only go so far, people wan't to know that the company behind a product is there to support it. *RED dealt with terrible delays, and during that period they earned dedicated fans because they showed that if there's an issue, Red are there to answer it. There was no black out, no "don't call us, we'll call you".

It may be that a company like RED is aiming at professionals, knowing that productions can't take the risk of "wait and see". A consumer oriented $3k SKU can disappear or delay without much riding on it.

The last update from BMD said within a few weeks, a few weeks ago, and there's been no update since. Why did they say a few weeks, have they slowly gathered enough parts for a small shipment soon? This "tricking out" units from slowly receiving parts, is there any ETA on when one will hit the US distro? Is there even any tricking out, is that comment still true? It sounds from every source says none are going out. Are the resellers accurate in setting expectations for this winter? Should we not be waiting for any shipping updates soon?
Last edited by RichDorato on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
www.whoatemyteeth.com
Offline

Eric Santiago

  • Posts: 520
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 2:11 am

Jerome Olivier wrote:BlackMagic's not responsible for people making dumb choices - like selling their current gear to afford something that isn't even available...


I haven't sold anything to gain this camera but I find your comment off-putting.
A dumb choice would be to sell a kidney to buy a motorcycle.
The folks that sold their gear made choices to prep themselves for a product that WAS and I mean WAS slated for a July 31st release.
Offline
User avatar

Mark de Jeu

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:42 pm
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 3:03 am

RichDorato wrote:The last update from BMD said within a few weeks, a few weeks ago, and there's been no update since. Why did they say a few weeks...


Rich,

You may have missed the post titled "Camera shipping update" at the top of the forum list. That was ten days ago and the info was pretty clear. In his post, Terry did not give a specific timeline for additional updates, but he did say, "when there is an update to share we will be posting that news here on this forum". It appears that some people don't favor that approach.
Mark de Jeu
Video Enthusiast
Offline

RichDorato

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 3:33 am

Ten days ago was an update to say that nothing changed, nothing has changed from the update made prior to that said the camera is shipping with a couple weeks. That was almost a month ago now, so clearly something has changed. That couple of weeks has passed and nothing has shipped. What are the expectations? What's going on? Does a couple of weeks mean in a couple of weeks forever, on and on?
www.whoatemyteeth.com
Offline

RichDorato

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 3:41 am

If I'm working with a client and say I'll have something to them within a couple weeks, and then a couple of weeks later they ask for an update and I simply say "nothing has changed", that would be very poor service on my part.

I would update with a revised ETA, or provide some insight into the problem. I'm sure a client would wait longer, if I kept them aware of the process. That is basic professionalism 101.

To keep saying "soon", for months, and releasing little to any additional details, creates extreme frustration, among many other problems.

No update? This camera "launched" in August and we're going in October with no more of an idea of a shipment than we had a month ago.
www.whoatemyteeth.com
Offline

Eric Santiago

  • Posts: 520
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 4:09 am

I think we all have an idea on when its NOT coming.
It wont be September as most pre-orders have hoped.
I do however like to fantasize that BMD has thousands of these boxed and crated on palettes.
I am hoping since the supposed delivery date is botched akin to the end of that MNFL game :P
Offline
User avatar

Mark de Jeu

  • Posts: 116
  • Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:42 pm
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 4:14 am

RichDorato wrote:If I'm working with a client and say I'll have something to them within a couple weeks, and then a couple of weeks later they ask for an update and I simply say "nothing has changed", that would be very poor service on my part.


I agree that would be very poor service on your part. The problem with your example here, however, is that Terry did not simply say, "nothing has changed". He gave an explanation of where things stood, what was causing the problem, and why they did not have a timeline for shipping in volume or even how many units would ship this month. He also said he would let us know when they had more details. I actually thought his update had the right content, temperament, and timing. For others' reference, it's the first posting in the forum, "Camera shipping update".

[In fairness and full disclosure, I've changed my order from the EF to the MFT version, so my expectation is not as near-term as others'.]
Mark de Jeu
Video Enthusiast
Offline

Dan Pears

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:38 am

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 4:30 am

Eric Santiago wrote:
Jerome Olivier wrote:BlackMagic's not responsible for people making dumb choices - like selling their current gear to afford something that isn't even available...


I haven't sold anything to gain this camera but I find your comment off-putting.
A dumb choice would be to sell a kidney to buy a motorcycle.
The folks that sold their gear made choices to prep themselves for a product that WAS and I mean WAS slated for a July 31st release.


But if someone decided to sell their gear, and now they can't shoot anything... seems like poor planning.

Why not wait until the camera arrives - you only need the $3000 - and then when it arrives sell everything for your cage and batteries and new laptop etc? Stuff that isn't even necessary to make the camera work. People saying they've sold everything seem to have just gone and bought a bunch of accessories that aren't even essential anyway, so they can't be that strapped for cash. If you had to sell all your s--- to scrape together the $3000 for the camera alone, then that sucks and I do feel for those people. But if someone sold their 7D and this and that to buy a cage and accessories, because they were so excited, and now the camera is late, well - should've just kept shooting.

People say "I hope this isn't red all over again" - so it isn't like this hasn't happened before.
Offline
User avatar

samuelchristopher

  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 6:25 am

Dan Pears wrote:
Eric Santiago wrote:
Jerome Olivier wrote:BlackMagic's not responsible for people making dumb choices - like selling their current gear to afford something that isn't even available...


I haven't sold anything to gain this camera but I find your comment off-putting.
A dumb choice would be to sell a kidney to buy a motorcycle.
The folks that sold their gear made choices to prep themselves for a product that WAS and I mean WAS slated for a July 31st release.


But if someone decided to sell their gear, and now they can't shoot anything... seems like poor planning.

Why not wait until the camera arrives - you only need the $3000 - and then when it arrives sell everything for your cage and batteries and new laptop etc? Stuff that isn't even necessary to make the camera work. People saying they've sold everything seem to have just gone and bought a bunch of accessories that aren't even essential anyway, so they can't be that strapped for cash. If you had to sell all your s--- to scrape together the $3000 for the camera alone, then that sucks and I do feel for those people. But if someone sold their 7D and this and that to buy a cage and accessories, because they were so excited, and now the camera is late, well - should've just kept shooting.

People say "I hope this isn't red all over again" - so it isn't like this hasn't happened before.


Thats a very unprofessional understanding then. When a company gives a release date you as a customer expect the company to honer that, otherwise why have a release date and why have another expected release date and then another if you are not going to fulfil your promise; thats why people are comparing to RED and Redrock.

So it wasn't a bad choice at all for those who sold gear, sadly we are not all made of money and have to commit to the sale and the only way to be sure to get one of these cameras ASAP was to sell gear and get on the pre order ladder. Otherwise we would of lost our position in the cue if we were busy trying to sell a 7D's last minute to pay the rest of the deposit once the order is processed.

and I really did wait to the last minute to sell my 7D, I didnt want to let it go, it would of made a great B-Camera.

So get off your high horse and stop trying to make a very ignorant point and realise people have tried to make a commitment which has sadly fallen apart thanks to Blackmagic's miscommunication to the distributor and more importantly us.
Samuel Christopher
@samchristopher
www.samuelchristopher.co.uk
Offline
User avatar

Edwin M

  • Posts: 55
  • Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:06 pm
  • Location: Venezuela , America del Sur

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 9:12 pm

I bought my camera from Venezuela, in New York jejejej, luckily my Previous camera is a GOPRO
I also hope to emotion :lol:
Offline
User avatar

PetePolyakov

  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am
  • Location: Westport, CT

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 9:13 pm

Samuel +1
Offline
User avatar

simonkn

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:54 pm
  • Location: Bristol, UK

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 9:54 pm

What annoys me about all this bickering is the fact that it's all in the effort to get the "next best thing" and the "2012 Must Have Gadget."

Were you not happy with the 7D? Or the 5D Mark 2? Or whatever was LAST years must have camera? Because they ALL still shoot staggeringly beautiful footage. Far, Far better than anything shot only 5 years ago on vastly more expensive equipment.

I'm very happy with my TAPE based Sony Z5. I threw £600 at it this year for an Atomos Ninja and I have relit my desire to shoot footage..

The difference with the Red 'fiasco' is that when people are waiting for a $20k camera they "probably" have a large business and can afford to "waste" the money.. Making a camera that is accessible to ANYONE causes the problems we are seeing in this forum...

Did anyone know that Sony were nearly 9 weeks late delivering their F65? ok, it's not 3 months but I wonder if there was the vociferousness in email exchanges between deposit payers and Sony?? Anyone vaguely get my point?

For a real back to basics lesson that will prove useful WHEN we take possession of our beloved BMCC... Go to eBay and spend £200 on a 30 year old 16mm Bolex. Buy some film and get it processed and one-light telecined. Get used to getting aperture right for that massive dynamic range... And have fun/ make money being creative..

Positive energy, people...

SK
Offline
User avatar

PetePolyakov

  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am
  • Location: Westport, CT

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 10:52 pm

bmd much smaller than sony, what should we expect? 3 years?
i think we discuss about different things. if you said something - do something. we are talking about this.
Offline
User avatar

simonkn

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:54 pm
  • Location: Bristol, UK

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 11:05 pm

Not in the slightest....

Sony is huge and evolves slowly with changing trends. They just have the cash to push projects forward quicker. And when SONY demands a chip, it get what it wants...

I would say BM would react quicker as they can adapt and evolve quicker. (taking delivery aside - look at the comments from Bloom,Brawley et al and the speed of the MFT camera announcement. That can only bode well for the future...)

"they" have not promised regular updates - "we" have demanded that. "they" have only said one thing wrong so far - the delivery date.

Anyway - there are enough "shipping dates" threads already,,
Offline
User avatar

PetePolyakov

  • Posts: 199
  • Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am
  • Location: Westport, CT

Re: honesty and communication please

PostTue Sep 25, 2012 11:39 pm

John such a sweet man but he all the time claims that he doesn't work for BMD and he don't know more when we know.
"they" re-scheduled 3 times the shipping and when it didn't work well, they announced "limited shipping" when there was so many clients already. "limited shipping" can be anything. 1 unit per year is limited shipping too.
Offline
User avatar

Nick Bedford

  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 am
  • Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: honesty and communication please

PostWed Sep 26, 2012 2:58 am

I don't want a BMD because it's better than yesteryear's camera. I want a BMD because it produces the quality of image (within reason) that cinematographers have been used to for decades.

A photographic high dynamic range motion image is not a new thing. Being able to afford it is.
Nick Bedford, Photographer
http://www.nickbedford.com/
Next

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests