clip delete? will it ever happen?

with the new compressed stuff and raw wrappers and such, well...with or without it. Is this even a possibility in a future FW update?

I can see why someone would want this feature but I'm relieved there is no delete. I can imagine myself fumbling around deleting the wrong clip or selecting delete all in all the excitement. So I love the safety net of not having delete.

Jules

It is possible, very possible to do, the problem lies in the GUI Menu, that seems to be the hard part.

I can see why someone would want this feature but I'm relieved there is no delete. I can imagine myself fumbling around deleting the wrong clip or selecting delete all in all the excitement. So I love the safety net of not having delete.

Jules

some feature need to be there , and deleting clip is important to get it , (( no need to imagine yourself fumbling around deleting the wrong clip ))

even worst camera has the options to do many things . and its time to get blackmagic back on the site , canon and other every day gets closer to change your idea .!!

I can see why someone would want this feature but I'm relieved there is no delete. I can imagine myself fumbling around deleting the wrong clip or selecting delete all in all the excitement. So I love the safety net of not having delete.

Jules

some feature need to be there , and deleting clip is important to get it , (( no need to imagine yourself fumbling around deleting the wrong clip ))

even worst camera has the options to do many things . and its time to get blackmagic back on the site , canon and other every day gets closer to change your idea .!!

Many of the highest end cameras lack this so called vital feature. There must be a reason for this..........

The two most commonly advanced theories are that of taste and reconsied workflow, and that of technical issues.

The taste/workflow one is that the feature isn't common on high end cameras, those that the BMD rnage in many ways aspires to be a budget priced version of. It does help enforce shooting dicipline that difital has eroded and it also helps you realise that even the most aweful shot may have its uses in the editing room.

The technical one revolves around SSD performance issues, and clip delete possibly negatively affecting this in some way. In normal usage SSDs nature means that the old HDD issues of fragmentation don't usually apply, as the SSDs are so fast and have built in management functions. However such functions (like TRIM) arent always fully utalised on camera, and the BMCCs data rates mean they are very performance dependant to avoid frame drops.

It would be a nice feature to have I'm sure, but given it doesnt exist on many cameras that are used at the top end, this suggests that it isnt a need.

Top end cameras still have things like the ability to format a card completely, or see how much space has been used on it.

That's the sort of thing I would appreciate far more than the ability to delete individual clips.

I doubt we'll ever see clip delete. We don't need it.

I'd love to have formatting in camera though.

jb

I doubt we'll ever see clip delete. We don't need it.

I'd love to have formatting in camera though.

jb

Sorry but we do need it !!

I doubt we'll ever see clip delete. We don't need it.

I'd love to have formatting in camera though.

jb

Sorry but we do need it !!

Then buy a different camera.

Just... buy... additional... SSDs. End of issue.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

I thought this wasn't possible because of the way SSDs work or something? I don't personally need a clip-delete function. Format in-camera would be great though.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

Not yet, but I'm sure I will. I also ran out of mini-DV tape on my Canon HV-20, and out of SD space on my Sony RX100. You'd think I'd plan and pay attention better... I agree that space remaining would be a nice feature. I don't need in-camera formatting; I format the SSD after I offload clips to my computer.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

Once or twice so far in long takes. But I try to keep better track and change discs early.

Just... buy... additional... SSDs. End of issue.

Ah yes. The good old "just buy more things" solution!

I thought this wasn't possible because of the way SSDs work or something? I don't personally need a clip-delete function. Format in-camera would be great though.

Certainly a possibility. If there is a SSD that suffucently exceeds the performance specs so any potential performance issues don't materialise then it may become more viable.

As i understand the potential issue with the way SSDs work, the performance hit isnt all that great, but that the speed requirements are high for the BMCC and many SSDs that technically beat the spec, are doing it by fine margins. In most applications the performance hit is unoticable, and there are other systems that hide it anyway.

A reasonable anology is power suppkies for PCs. Cheap ones can often supply large amounts of power, but they can do it for sustained amounts of time and when they falter they tend to cause issues if the demand is still there. More expensive ones can often sustain a higher power amount for longer (power supply lableing also varies from manufactuer to manufacturer, some lable peak output, some lable sustained). In the same way some SSDs struggle to maintain their stated read/write speed, most of the time this matters little but if you are capturing RAW video to them it can cause issues.

Just... buy... additional... SSDs. End of issue.

Ah yes. The good old "just buy more things" solution!

A 240 GB SSD is enough for 30 minutes of RAW capture, so I went with two of those instead of one 480 GB SSD in order to minimize the "buy more things" syndrome. I did still end up buying more stuff, but it was things like hard drives to dump the footage onto, which are a lot less expensive.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

It's not so much running out that concerns me. It's that when a client asks me half way through a day how much we've shot so far. I have no way of telling them.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

It's not so much running out that concerns me. It's that when a client asks me half way through a day how much we've shot so far. I have no way of telling them.

It would be nice to be able to see that without having to dump the data.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

Once or twice so far in long takes. But I try to keep better track and change discs early.

What happened?

I doubt we'll ever see clip delete. We don't need it.

I'd love to have formatting in camera though.

jb

Sorry but we do need it !!

Then buy a different camera.

you can keep working on old firmware like 1.2 or 3 if you like , i do advice u

why not if there is no conflicting on your work ,technical
there is many would like to have new option and deleting clip one of them

Compressed DNGs will be my new delete feature !!!

Gotten so so used to the camera the way it is, id be afraid of any newly released features

It would be nice to at least be able to flag a clip as thumbs up or thumbs down. This could set the name of the folder that the files are in, so when you are copying off the SSD you can decide which ones you actually want.

Then buy a different camera.

Haha, how absurd. Media format and clip delete on a modern tapeless camera should be a given. Pretty sure even the HVX200 had the ability to delete clips.

Has anyone ever run out of SSD in the middle of a take?

Once or twice so far in long takes. But I try to keep better track and change discs early.

What happened?

As far as i know the recording just stops, and the recording indicator instead indicates disk full. The frames recorded so far are all there, not like some consumer cameras who will invalidate the whole recording when they run out of space...

Then buy a different camera.

Haha, how absurd. Media format and clip delete on a modern tapeless camera should be a given. Pretty sure even the HVX200 had the ability to delete clips.

Don't remind me about those P2 cards. I remember I just wanted 16GB and it cost me an arm and a leg. And they still do!

The HVX200 was never a cinema camera, no interchangeable lens etc. So a completely different use case.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more deleting clips is a bad idea on a film set. You honestly going to try to delete clips in between takes, without first dumping it all across and making a backup?

I think if you are using the BMCC for non-cinema purposes then it might be handy sometimes. In that case you're using the camera not for what it is designed for so can't really expect this feature.

Jules

There's no good reason to not have a delete clip function built in. It's certainly doable technically, and it's a very useful function. They should have it.

Add me to the list of people who doesn't need a clip delete function. If it makes it into a future firmware, then I won't complain. But I'd much rather see a whole list of other things get added first. Free space remaining would be a big one, for example.

Deleting clips on-camera is a terrible strategy for media management. If you have time to review your clips in the middle of your shoot, then you definitely have time to swap out a drive and start an offload. You only need 2 disks - one in the camera and one offloading footage. You can shoot all day and it's much safer. Even if you're just goofing off or shooting test footage, it's a good opportunity to practice your media management strategy. If you really must delete your footage, then do it back at home when you're not under the pressure of the shoot and you have time to view it on a large screen.

If you have time to review your clips in the middle of your shoot, then you definitely have time to swap out a drive and start an offload.

If you're in a studio environment, sure. If you're in a remote location where you don't have an offload station set up and you have limited SSDs on hand, I can see how being able to delete clips that you know are trash would be extremely useful.

I find it funny that people are saying things like "if you're not using it for cinema purposes, you're using it wrong." It's a $3,000 camera, not an Alexa (the HVX was actually more expensive when it first launched, FWIW). I reckon people are using it for all sorts of types of shoots, including run-and-gun stuff and documentary-type work. Why rain on people's desire for a delete function? If you don't like it, you certainly don't have to use it (perhaps they could just make an option to enable/disable it in the menus). Obviously some people would find it useful.

And yes, things like being able to format a card and show remaining free space are other sorely needed features. You would think by now they would be able to implement that.

I think there is a better way of looking at it guys. I mean the "I dont need it so don put it in the camera comment is just stupid. Its not like we are talking about loading the cameras with crack here. If you dont want to use it dont, let those of us that like our crack have it jeez. Oh I mean let those of us who want to delete clips delete them its not like you have to use that function. This feature is necessary on the pocket cam for sure.

I can sort of understand how deleting random clips could degrade continuous write speed on the SSD but surely deleting the last clip wouldn't have that effect. And yes, Bob Dobbs taught me that "too much is always better than not enough". I don't recall where I picked up "better to have and not need than to need and not have."

I reckon people are using it for all sorts of types of shoots, including run-and-gun stuff and documentary-type work. Why rain on people's desire for a delete function? If you don't like it, you certainly don't have to use it (perhaps they could just make an option to enable/disable it in the menus). Obviously some people would find it useful.

Well if BM are reading this thread then they will find plenty of people who don't consider a delete function essential.

I'd rather see BM put their limited resources to fixing the audio bugs and adding audio meters first.

Jules

Well if BM are reading this thread then they will find plenty of people who don't consider a delete function essential.

I'd rather see BM put their limited resources to fixing the audio bugs and adding audio meters first.

Hm, that just seems to imply that the problem isn't an issue with the inclusion of a delete function but rather BM apparently needing more resources.

I can see several reasons to have one, and I can see other people wanting to play it safe.

When it's time to dump my SSD to my computer, if I was able to delete a bad take on the spot, it's going to reduce transfer times.

If one DOESN'T have a need for a delete button, then don't hit it, BMD can be smart enough about it to hide it off the main screen. It's a feature some people would really like to have and don't, which is WAY more important than it being completely not an option. Like I said, if you have no need for a delete button, why would it bother you and why would you have an issue with pretending it isn't available.

laptops have been running SSD for how long, processing files, deleting clips, fully running OS, 3d.... yeah, surely a "delete" button isn't rocket science, especially compressed RAW.

I'm fairly certain BMD is well aware that some people (myself included) want to be able to delete clips in-camera.

Likewise, there are many people who specifically do not want this feature ... and there are others who don't care either way.

JB has stated previously that BMD designed their cams to not allow in-cam clip deletion as a choice. In other words, BMD chose not to enable this capability, as a safety feature. As has been discussed, they're not the only "cinema camera" that don't allow it.

Even though I really wish this weren't the case, I can live with BMD standing firm with their decision. It's BMD's cam design, not ours.

This is different than something like BMD promising in writing that their cams will be capable of "... recording the highest quality uncompressed audio ...". BMD is aware that their cams don't yet record sound as well as they promised they would. As a result, they'll fix this issue -- eventually (soon I hope!).

But, they never promised in-cam clip deletion, and they apparently don't see it as a problem that needs to be "fixed". It's not broken, it's a feature. Get used to it.

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What happened?
As far as i know the recording just stops, and the recording indicator instead indicates disk full. The frames recorded so far are all there, not like some consumer cameras who will invalidate the whole recording when they run out of space...

yes, the camera just stops recording. it happened to me on a hot day and I thought the camera or SSD overheated.

I can sort of understand how deleting random clips could degrade continuous write speed on the SSD but surely deleting the last clip wouldn't have that effect.

I don't even think that repeated deletion of random clips would have any measurable effect on the writing speed (unless the ssd is completely full). Solid state disks empoy a very sophisticated system of "wear levelling", that is spreading the write cycles evenly all over the memory cells, so there's no such thing as "fragmentation" in ssds.