Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Tom

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:09 am

A camera is only an investment if you use its functionality to directly recoup the cost + money on top of that.

If you are buying a camera to then re-sell it later on for profit or for close to what you bought - perhaps you should reconsider how you "invest" your money.

If you bought the camera at $3000 - then clearly you think it is worth that amount and are happy to pay that much. You could have waited until the price dropped, but then you would not have been able to use it earlier. Early adopters ALWAYS suffer from these issues, its part of the price of being an early adopter. If you didnt see this sort of thing coming, then clearly you have just learned a lesson.

I can appreciate how frustrated people who have JUST received their cameras would be, a lot of resellers and shops (and I am fairly sure in the Uk there is legislation for this) will be happy to refund the difference if you have JUST bought it (probably within 14 days or something).

On the flip side - I am looking on the positive side of things, my camera just got cheaper to insure :-)
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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:14 am

Any information if and when this price-reduction will be available in Europe (Germany?).
Currently we are at 2700€ for the BMCC approx 3500$.
If the price would really drop to anything close that here i would really consider it over the BMPCC.
(While still waiting for a BMPC 4K model with a popper PL mount)
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:15 am

Aaron Scheiner wrote:Give early adopters a rebate on future hardware purchases.




I thought you are done with BM?
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earl riddick

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:15 am

paulkosmala wrote:
jamesedge wrote:Just another example of blackmagic having a complete lack of respect for its current customer base. Grant out there chasing headlines again, and meanwhile people who got their bmcc within the past month may as well have shoved that $1000 up their ----. Anyone who thinks that this is normal or 'the real world' is out of their mind. Six to twelve months down the line - fine, but within a month from when most people have received their camera is not (*edit* for the mft orders). If there is no period of grace on this price reduction I will no longer purchase bm products. Say what you like about Sony/Canon/RED etc - at least they have a strategy, bm is just winging it and its the people who supported them first who lose out.


A respect for current customer base = dishonest pricing - sure they could keep it at 3k... but who is that HELPING? you? no... Themselves, yes. You don't lose from some one else buying it cheaper... not unless you expect to sell it/rent it, and lets face it, the used market for these camera's would have been close to nil at 3k...(or 2k for that matter)

reducing the price DOES HELP those who have yet to buy the camera... (and speculation on buying the camera from this point on, is just that. it sucks, I really really get it... but it is NOT that big a deal, considering you have an awesome camera and software now)

Reducing the price = HONEST(er) manufacturing price representation...

Seriously: is anyone arguing that it is unfair for BMD to lower their prices? I mean... how selfish do you have to be to say: "I theoretically could have spent less if I waiting until now to buy it... a pox on those not fortunate enough to have 3k on hand (but fortunate enough to have 2k on hand), it's so unfair that it's now cheaper"


Red scarlet dropped in price, sony camera's at around the same price had a large price drop.

Red's mx one... originally 18k. then 12k, then it was reduced to... $4k... that drop to 4k was sudden...

BUT (i hear you say) that was after a number of years. the price stayed up for the majority of it's run...
TO WHICH I SAY: that's even worse... red one was too expensive for far too long. I don't have special insight, but I suspect RED was making that camera for cheaper and cheaper, and not lowering the pricing accordingly...
you call that fair, but lowering the price accordingly unfair? and pissing on customers...? Seriously, that's mentality I can't even being to fathom.

It sucks for people who bought it yesterday. and the week before...

But it is not unfair, or pissing on those customers to change prices according to manufacturing costs.

Stop being sour about someone else's fortune and create something awesome!


its not about that though is it (certainly not for me anyway) its about the fact that this is another thing in a long line of really bad company choices (even going back to choices such as not sending out a new dongle to replace broken or lost ones to those that spent a lot for resolve software back in the day. being told they wont do anything and that your'll have to pay a fortune again for the software just to replace a dongle). These cameras have literally only just started shipping in quantity and have only just got through pre orders, i don't care what anyone says that's way to early to drop prices and expect people to not be seriously upset. its genuinely great that new customers are getting a great deal and yes, bmd can do whatever they want with there prices, but it doesn't change the fact that its not right. Its got nothing to do with being selfish to others or being bitter. its simply not good practice
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earl riddick

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:18 am

Rudy Satria wrote:Come on Grant, You should make a very serious consideration for those who has bought the camera at least from early 2013. at least GIVE THEM 70% DISCOUNT FOR BMPCC would be fair enough :)


dont want discounts. i just want to see something that shows me that they are going to start thinking of there customers more
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:21 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


If you want a good resale value, buy gold.



Best line EVER!
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:21 am

Tom wrote:If you are buying a camera to then re-sell it later on for profit or for close to what you bought - perhaps you should reconsider how you "invest" your money.


Yeah, some of the first things you learn in business school.

Running a business and investing money, driven by emotion (that's what early adopting actually is), is always a bad thing.
No mater how creative you think your are, you have to shift into bean-counter mode sometimes.

Stop crying, B-cameras just got cheaper. Shooting with 2 or more cameras saves you more money on your next set, than you "lost" with the price drop.
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Jayson Rahmlow

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:26 am

Yeah the more I think of it the more ridiculous it is to be so bent out of shape about this. I literally bought an EF bmcc yesterday for $2700. And chances are I'll get my $700 back but even if I don't what would i do? say screw black magic and go where? there's nothing else out there even close to the bmcc cameras in this price range.

Hell I bought a Canon XL2 for $6,000 in 2006 and sold it in 2007 for $2200. (All because canon started making hd cameras in 2007.) So don't tell me cameras always depreciate nice and slowly.

Its this kind of protectionist thinking that turned Red into what it initially was created to destroy; a company that makes cameras that are out of reach for most aspiring film makers.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:26 am

Are you guys not using your camera to make money? This is the way technology works. iPhones drop in price, C100s dropped in price, Epics dropped in price. You got a camera with 13 stops of DR and 2.5K for $3000, something you couldn't get near before, and you're mad at a price drop? $3000 was an insanely good deal for this cam. $2000, BMD is out of their mind (in a good way). There's always a risk for early adopters. There's gotta be a cut-off at some point. Today is that day.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:29 am

One reason could be that the pocket camera pre order is so vast that they are trying to change pre orders into BMCC sales to reduce the pre order que and save face when customers end up waiting another year for their pocket cameras.
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Lucas Pfaff

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:31 am

Tom wrote:On the flip side - I am looking on the positive side of things, my camera just got cheaper to insure :-)

That's something I didn't consider so far. Just now I have to tell that to my insurance, that the price on the bill is not what I want to insure... :)


I wouldn't be so mad about this if I was able to use my camera in the time I own it. I had an issue (posted in a different thread) so I got it to the RMA, who send me back a new Camera that had an even worse failure.
So from the days I own it I couldn't use it for any shoots because the unit was faulty, and I only waited to now see that it dropped the price incredibly. That' what bothers me; I couldn't even use it before :(
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:32 am

Aaron Scheiner wrote:Give early adopters a rebate on future hardware purchases.

Rudy Satria wrote:Come on Grant, You should make a very serious consideration for those who has bought the camera at least from early 2013. at least GIVE THEM 70% DISCOUNT FOR BMPCC would be fair enough :)


I agree, I wouldn't say no to a rebate on the Pocket camera, though 70% is never going to happen.
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Hector Diaz

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:36 am

Guys haven't you learned this valuable lesson: "Never pay retail in the film business"? I'm happy about the price change because I know that like any other product that first comes out that there's going to be bugs or delays or whatever other issues that will get resolved later.
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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:36 am

Darkfable wrote:One reason could be that the pocket camera pre order is so vast that they are trying to change pre orders into BMCC sales to reduce the pre order que and save face when customers end up waiting another year for their pocket cameras.


A nifty Idea. I've know at least one person going that route because of this price drop. (not me, was never after the 4k)

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metaljesus

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 11:43 am

Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


Yeah well...

Same thing happened to C100/RED owners. You shouldn't see a camera as an investment. If you want a good resale value, buy gold.

On the other hand, anyone with a $3000 BMC, should be able to make it pay for itself within the first 3 jobs, or you do something totally wrong, since the BMC was a bargain at 3k in the first place..

Regarding rental value - it was never good on any $3000 camera - no mater what brand - anyway. Dollies and cranes rent for more and keep their value over a long period - if you planned to make money by renting a cheap camera in a world of fast changing technology, you just made an uniformed business decision.


Yes, if someone bought a BMCC just to rent it and make a profit that might be a bad business choice - so what? I'm an owner operator and I hire out my kit when not in use and I'm frustrated rental prices will be dropping.

Regardless of how much my gear earns me the current market value of my used BMCC EF has just dropped from $2500 to $1500. If I've already used the camera to generate income, again - so what? I don't work for a zerosum. This doesn't feel like a great reward for early adopters who have suffered through so much.

Saying 'buy a jib of you want to run a rental house!' or 'buy gold because it's a better investment!' really isn't helping anyone or representing the situation accurately. This is not a theoretical discussion; we're talking about the real-life experience of being Blackmagic customers.
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Alexander Arndt

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:06 pm

Stop crying, B-cameras just got cheaper. Shooting with 2 or more cameras saves you more money on your next set, than you "lost" with the price drop.


i like that perspective. Anyhow you put it...price drops always sucks for the early birds.


cheers
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Tom

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:07 pm

Oh by the way guys, in a year or so, the BMPCC and BMPC will probably come down in price - so you know....just so that this time next year you aren't complaining again.... you have been warned.
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metaljesus

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:15 pm

Tom wrote:Oh by the way guys, in a year or so, the BMPCC and BMPC will probably come down in price - so you know....just so that this time next year you aren't complaining again.... you have been warned.


Do you think they'll suddenly be reduced by a 1/3rd in price shortly after being avaliable off the shelf?

That's the part that the people calling this 'normal' are missing.
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Manu Gil

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:16 pm

Fantastic news. Thanks Blackmagic.
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Haakon Sundry

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:23 pm

Perhaps some of the people who feel burned by this announcement aren't aware, but this sort of thing is not new:

http://nofilmschool.com/2012/11/red-cut ... -one-4000/

Less than a year ago, RED did the exact same thing and slashed their prices - and if you think $1,000 stings, be grateful you didn't own an Epic that went down in value by more than $15,000 overnight.

It never feels good when you're on the side that already made the investment, but I can tell you that bringing these prices down is ultimately good for everyone. It keeps the manufacturers competitive and the technology within reach. I have no idea who is buying Canon cameras at those prices and specs, but my guess is that people are going to really start thinking long and hard about such a purchase now that the 2.5 BMCC costs less than $2K. More customers for BD means they can afford to develop better and better products and in the end we all win.

Also, you just can't look at cameras as investments that are going to give you solid returns upon resale. They almost never do these days. Buy it because you either make money with it (in which case once you've paid it off the new price is irrelevant) or because you love to shoot and the price of the camera is worth it to you at the time you made the purchase. New technology will always appear and cause old technology to come down in cost. What you do with it here and now is what matters.
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:24 pm

sebasti wrote:With this recent RAW hack in Canon only proves that Canon (and any other company) could have given us cameras able to record RAW video many years ago but they didn't.


Maybe, but there are good technical reasons why they may not have.

A few years ago, there were no CF cards fast enough for 1080/24p in raw. You'd have had to drop to 720/24p.

Yes 2008's Canon 50D is capable of raw, up to 2k resolution, but in 2008 the media to support this just wasn't available, not even SSDs.

What Canon should have given us with the 5D Mark III was ProRes. Their internal processor however is slow by video standards as it is orientated for stills. It can't do a high quality debayer and compression. They use a off the shelf H.264 encoder to give us a soft MOV file. With the kind of processor they have on the 1D X and 1D C though, you'd likely be able to get 4K ProRes off that full frame sensor, without even so much as a fan or SSD slot.
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Jayson Rahmlow

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:31 pm

I don't see how we get to be pissed about price reductions when there is no competition at either price. Be honest there's a $14,000 scarlet, a $13,000 Sony (I think). If it weren't for black magic those would be our options. So black magic is looking out for its customers by offering a $10,000 discount at checkout for the last year. Now it's an $11,000 discount.
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:32 pm

My personal opinion on the price drop:

:shock:

My camera just depreciated $1000 or £1000 over night. I can stomach that as I was lucky and received mine in November last year, as I ordered so early as to be first in the queue at CVP. However many other loyal customers also ordered early and have waited far longer. Their cameras have arrived in the last few months, so are practically new and then suddenly worth a third less. :roll:

Then the positive - the mFT model is now cheaper to pick up and I was going to swap out my EF mount version for one of those any way. I have the 5D for my EF lenses, but no raw beast for my mFT glass yet. Shame it is not active mount though. A real shame. The Pocket Camera is, so can I expect soon after laying down yet more money for the mFT model for that to be obsolete over night as well when the active mount one comes along?

I don't think Blackmagic had any need to charge less for the BMCC. It doesn't exactly tally with solving the supply and demand problems. Lower the price, create more demand that you can't fulfil? Not sensible.

I hope BMD are learning from all this, I really do!
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Mark Davies

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:38 pm

Andrew Reid wrote:
sebasti wrote:With this recent RAW hack in Canon only proves that Canon (and any other company) could have given us cameras able to record RAW video many years ago but they didn't.


Maybe, but there are good technical reasons why they may not have.

A few years ago, there were no CF cards fast enough for 1080/24p in raw. You'd have had to drop to 720/24p.

Yes 2008's Canon 50D is capable of raw, up to 2k resolution, but in 2008 the media to support this just wasn't available, not even SSDs.

What Canon should have given us with the 5D Mark III was ProRes. Their internal processor however is slow by video standards as it is orientated for stills. It can't do a high quality debayer and compression. They use a off the shelf H.264 encoder to give us a soft MOV file. With the kind of processor they have on the 1D X and 1D C though, you'd likely be able to get 4K ProRes off that full frame sensor, without even so much as a fan or SSD slot.


That's really not fair They could have put 10 bit 4.2.2 out on the cameras for a start. They could have allowed RAW out as an option then you could have bought or rented an expensive although not that expensive recorder.
This technology has been deliberately with held so they can charge a professional premium price for it. Black magic's recent price reduction on the BMCC Not only puts it to bed but puts it to bed all over again.
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Lorenzo Straight

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:38 pm

Don't beat yourselves up. Early adopters usually pay more anyway. Make your money back on aid gigs.
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Tom

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:40 pm

metaljesus wrote:
Tom wrote:Oh by the way guys, in a year or so, the BMPCC and BMPC will probably come down in price - so you know....just so that this time next year you aren't complaining again.... you have been warned.


Do you think they'll suddenly be reduced by a 1/3rd in price shortly after being avaliable off the shelf?


Perhaps they will yes. It does happen, it did happen in this case. It has happened before, and it will happen again.


My camera depreciated overnight? Well I can still make the same amount of money from it as I did previously. The camera was already priced very cheap, so cheap that It should be easy enough for it to pay for itself fairly quickly. If not, you just bought into an expensive hobby.

Personally I don't care that my camera now sells for less, I am more interested in how it will now be even more accessible to more people and how it will also further strengthen the user base and hopefully in the long term result in even more exciting and daring products.

If I buy a camera for $3000, clearly I think it is worth $3000. If the price goes down within a week or so of my buying it, the law and most resellers in my country will refund the difference anyway. If I had waited until now to get it, I would not have earned all the money in the mean time from it - so ive hardly suddenly lost out.
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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:44 pm

Grant Perry
/g rant peh ree/

Noun

Grant Petty's deviously generous evil twin. Known to give people even more of what they ask for after his not-so-evil twin Grant Petty has already given so much.

Synonyms

Purveyor of Great Prices

Sentence
"Grant Petty is a stand-up guy, but that Grant Perry is really for the indie filmmaker."
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Jonas Bengtson

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:45 pm

technology gets cheaper every day.
deal with it.
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Randy Walters

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:55 pm

The BMCC was an astonishing value for $2,995. The price cut to $1,995 is something I can barely wrap my head around.

Yet once again, people find this to be a reason for complaint. It seems that if Grant Petty offered the camera for free, hand-delivered it to your door, made you coffee and breakfast, did your taxes and washed your car there would still be those bitching that he didn't shine their shoes.

I can't imagine how it feels to do so much good for people, only to find yourself under ceaseless attack. It's got to be discouraging. I feel like the complainers have a lot of growing up to do.
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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:57 pm

Randy Walters wrote:
I can't imagine how it feels to do so much good for people, only to find yourself under ceaseless attack. It's got to be discouraging. I feel like the complainers have a lot of growing up to do.


If he's anything like me, he's probably more concerned about people getting his name wrong.

xD
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jamesedge

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:57 pm

So RED reduced the prices of their cameras too.. fine, but did they do it within a month of the cameras actually shipping? No, they didn't did they. And the reduction of the RED One was for the battle tested sales, not new. This is not the same in any way. Like I said before, cameras are not investments... they are there to be used. But, no-one should expect the cost of a camera to drop so dramatically so shortly after release. If they'd done this six+ months after general release, then that's just the way of the world. The longer you get from release the higher the likelihood that the price will drop, to encourage another boost in sales. Has any other camera manufacturer ever reduced the price of their camera within a month of shipping by a third? My guess is no.
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Mark de Jeu

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 12:59 pm

Andrew Reid wrote:I don't think Blackmagic had any need to charge less for the BMCC. It doesn't exactly tally with solving the supply and demand problems. Lower the price, create more demand that you can't fulfil? Not sensible.

I hope BMD are learning from all this, I really do!

I actually hope they keep doing this. And to keep doing it even when they do not need to. I don't think they know how to charge what the market could demand. BMD, please don't hire supply-and-demand-savvy MBAs to set your product pricing.

If BMD priced their products based on what the market could demand, I would not have been able to afford my BMCC. Now they just made this camera even more accessible. And if considering the software bundle, you could almost argue that the BMCC is less than the price of ... just about anything that captures an image.

I'm very excited by this news, and I just received my MFT last month (#5 pre-order at B&H). I did not buy this as a financial investment, so I did not take a hit.
Mark de Jeu
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christian.himmelstrand

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:18 pm

Margus Voll wrote:Good point!

It also makes canon dslr buying pointless if you want to film something.


True!
BMCC EF is now a nice alternative to DSLR with a price of $1995.


I have a technical question since BMCC become eaven more interesting (I ordered a BMPCC).

BMPCC is in Super 16mm format.
BM4kPCC is in Super 35mm format.

But in what format is BMCC?
Last edited by christian.himmelstrand on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:19 pm

metaljesus wrote:Regardless of how much my gear earns me the current market value of my used BMCC EF has just dropped from $2500 to $1500. If I've already used the camera to generate income, again - so what? I don't work for a zerosum. This doesn't feel like a great reward for early adopters who have suffered through so much.
.


If a $1000 price drop of a tiny part your gear, really causes a big problem for you, maybe you should rethink your business model.

And the fact, that early adopters always pay more, and that their only "reward" is to get their hands early on stuff, is also news to you? I mean, nobody forced you to pre-order, instead of waiting till the cameras are available in the shops. You could have waited, till all the firmware glitches are sorted out. Everybody in the industry knows how that goes - every camera company has a track record of this. And on the bottom of your heart you knew it. It was your decision.
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:32 pm

woodybrando wrote:I don't see how we get to be pissed about price reductions when there is no competition at either price. Be honest there's a $14,000 scarlet, a $13,000 Sony (I think). If it weren't for black magic those would be our options. So black magic is looking out for its customers by offering a $10,000 discount at checkout for the last year. Now it's an $11,000 discount.


No competition? Full frame 14bit 1080p raw on the $3000 5D Mark III is definitely competition, maybe not for working professionals who require ProRes and small file sizes but certainly amongst the enthusiast and art-crowd.
British filmmaker and editor of EOSHD
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JohnSeventine

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:34 pm

I just received the email update. And just wanted to say thank you BlackMagic! You Rock!! Good move 8-)
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:34 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Regardless of how much my gear earns me the current market value of my used BMCC EF has just dropped from $2500 to $1500. If I've already used the camera to generate income, again - so what? I don't work for a zerosum. This doesn't feel like a great reward for early adopters who have suffered through so much.
.


If a $1000 price drop of a tiny part your gear, really causes a big problem for you, maybe you should rethink your business model.

And the fact, that early adopters always pay more, and that their only "reward" is to get their hands early on stuff, is also news to you?


Agree with the depreciation logic.

However for many early adopters of Blackmagic's cameras there was no reward in getting their hands early on a camera. Imagine waiting 12 months, receiving one last month, and this month seeing the price drop to $1995 and a big 'in stock' badge appearing at CVP.

I can see why people are upset. But no point whining about it. This is mixed news. Some great news in there as well as the negative.
British filmmaker and editor of EOSHD
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ungovernedreason

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 1:38 pm

It is painfully clear that those who just received their camera have a right to feel some kind of way about this. the first pre orders took some people (most) over a year to receive.

Sometime after pre ordering and before receiving Black Magic went ahead and announced two new cameras, one with debatable better specs and definitely a better censer (on paper).

After people calmed down about that Black Magic drops the price on their already out of date product by 30 percent.
The whole time evading legit questions from its users in regards to almost all new and old happenings.

But just because I am not happy and I do not agree with their customer stomping bad relations, does not change the fact that they are in the money of making business and though a few people may have been turned away from their company, Far far far more have just been dragged in...They are making 90 percent intelligent business choices to make money... we should all know by now that they don't give a ---- about its customers after they have their money...

But this stuff happens due to the capitalist world we live in.

Last year I built a custom high end gaming PC for 4000 dollars.
I am now having a hard time selling it for 800.
Jonathon E Norris
Former Canadian Military
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UnGoverned Productions

Code: Select all
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Rob Burgos

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:07 pm

Honestly, I've made over $3000 on shoots and more than that on finishing jobs with Davinci. My camera at the $2995 price has more than paid for itself. What does a price drop mean? It means I'll have 2 BMCC in my arsenal instead of a 7D as my second camera... oh almost forgot... another Davinci license. Nothing to complain about there.
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Andrew Reid

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:14 pm

Mark2929 wrote:
Andrew Reid wrote:
sebasti wrote:With this recent RAW hack in Canon only proves that Canon (and any other company) could have given us cameras able to record RAW video many years ago but they didn't.


That's really not fair They could have put 10 bit 4.2.2 out on the cameras for a start.


They could have but it would have meant having a smaller margin on the hardware because they'd have needed to put the processing in there for it.

Going from 14bit raw to 10bit 4-2-2 in a high quality way, is difficult to do in a stills camera.

Not that I am defending them. Canon have put profit before the DSLR video community time and time again and it is myopic.
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Nikolay Smirnov

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:16 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:You got a camera with 13 stops of DR and 2.5K for $3000, something you couldn't get near before, and you're mad at a price drop?

What you are saying is totally right.

The only problem is that BM failed at the production/delivery at the first place, making that price drop a good laugh in the customers face.
They made us wait for almost a year for a product that costs 3k$ and a week later changed the price to 2k$. What kind of technology improvment is that?
DoP/Colorist
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Samjack

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:24 pm

Tom wrote:A camera is only an investment if you use its functionality to directly recoup the cost + money on top of that.

If you are buying a camera to then re-sell it later on for profit or for close to what you bought - perhaps you should reconsider how you "invest" your money.

If you bought the camera at $3000 - then clearly you think it is worth that amount and are happy to pay that much. You could have waited until the price dropped, but then you would not have been able to use it earlier. Early adopters ALWAYS suffer from these issues, its part of the price of being an early adopter. If you didnt see this sort of thing coming, then clearly you have just learned a lesson.

I can appreciate how frustrated people who have JUST received their cameras would be, a lot of resellers and shops (and I am fairly sure in the Uk there is legislation for this) will be happy to refund the difference if you have JUST bought it (probably within 14 days or something).

On the flip side - I am looking on the positive side of things, my camera just got cheaper to insure :-)


The problem is early adopters they may be but they only just recieved the camera. If people have adopted early and recieved their cameras 6-12 months ago then the price drop perhaps it doesnt matter.
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Samjack

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:25 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:
metaljesus wrote:Great so my resale and rental values just took a massive hit.


If you want a good resale value, buy gold.



Best line EVER!


You don't want to be doing that now.
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christian.himmelstrand

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:33 pm

With this recent RAW hack in Canon only proves that Canon (and any other company) could have given us cameras able to record RAW video many years ago but they didn't.

That's really not fair They could have put 10 bit 4.2.2 out on the cameras for a start.

They could have but it would have meant having a smaller margin on the hardware because they'd have needed to put the processing in there for it.

Going from 14bit raw to 10bit 4-2-2 in a high quality way, is difficult to do in a stills camera.

Not that I am defending them. Canon have put profit before the DSLR video community time and time again and it is myopic.


Yes, and Canon have made C100 for that purpose, it has more and stronger video chipset inside, 5D is a still camera yet is has some video capacity, but is it not made to handle heavy video flows.
Hacking it to get Raw video will probably risking to overheat it.

C100 is a nice camera but little too expensive.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:Running a business and investing money, driven by emotion (that's what early adopting actually is), is always a bad thing...Stop crying, B-cameras just got cheaper. Shooting with 2 or more cameras saves you more money on your next set, than you "lost" with the price drop.


Yep, pretty much.

But, this is what happens when you have a great product that professionals can appreciate at a price that consumers can afford: a forum filled with silly, amateur complaints. Remember when Red dropped the price of Epic and the brief little storm that unleashed? That's a 40 thousand dollar camera; or was. You have people mortgaging their homes and selling their cars to get an Epic. You people trying to roll with the big boys at $3000 a drop; get a beautiful piece of tech and complain and complain and complain... The naysayers are just selfish little children who don't want to share with the other selfish little children. Boo-hoo. Welcome to the real world.

Originally, I was going to need to be okay with two Pockets as B-cameras. Now, I can buy a BMCC EF for just a tiny bit more. Or, if I look at it as "buying a second BMCC anyway" then I suddenly have another grand to spend on a head and sticks, or a monitor, or a card, or battery, a light, or whatever, and only for the amount I was originally going to spend on JUST the camera.

I only bought my BMCC a month ago, and I'm freaking THRILLED to hear about the price reduction, the new firmware, the Pockets are on their way, the BMCC MFT is shipping and the 4K is right around the corner. As of right now, B&H hasn't even updated their website, yet! Splice Community looks pretty cool, too, and I definitely have a story or three to tell.

BMD didn't fail. They delivered. They delivered late, but they delivered. Now, they can share their great products with more people, while also allowing small little tiny houses like my company to get the best tech that we can afford and there is NO CAMERA with the quality and specs the BMCC has at THAT price point, and now that is certainly true! Keep going, Blackmagic!
Jason R. Johnston
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strancali

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:42 pm

Though I understand BM's position to do what's best for their business, it still stings knowing that I lost money before I can even hold my BMC MFT. I prepaid for a unit last year and just decided YESTERDAY to take the MFT version while I wait for the Pocket and 4K version to be released. My question is, did the retailers know about this price reduction before hand or did they received the news the same time as everyone else. My camera was shipped late yesterday afternoon and I can't help but to think that the retailer knew about this price reduction.

I'm not mad at BM for the reduction because I think it's a good thing for all indies. I mean how can you be mad at a company that is bringing us these technologies at these price point?? It just sucks knowing that the money could have went to other accessories. I wouldn't mind it as much if I had the camera for months but taking a hit before actually receiving it is another thing.
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sean mclennan

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:44 pm

If everyone had received their camera's last July...this decision would not have stung so much. Unfortunately, BM has a roadmap and this price drop was probably in their plans for a while now. I would hazard a guess that this price cut was originally planned for NAB. To announce when they announced the 4K, but since everyone JUST got their camera's, they pushed the cut back 3 months.

$1000 drop on a $3000 camera is significant, especially considering most users likely aren't generating a revenue from their camera. (another guess)

The thing with value is it's just a matter of perception.

The working pros just see it as a tool. They buy it, add it to their toolbox and go about their work.

Enthusiasts are different. To many of them it's a upgrade from consumer commonality. It's an evolution of their gear (and therefore capabilities). They're joining the big boys. Shooting and editing with what the pros use. Some will save for months to buy it, some will max out their credit cards, many will lie to their spouses about the cost ;)

Right or wrong, it IS an investment to many people. One that BM just shattered. Price drops are normal. Large price drops are more uncommon, but still happen. BM has always been very aggressive in their pricing. It's one of the reasons we love them.

I'm not surprised by the cut, it's just the timing sucks.
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photostrobist

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:46 pm

Price reduction. Where?. I call bhphoto and still in 2,995 and the people of bh. Have not idea about this price reduction.


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Theodore Prentice

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:48 pm

Should have kept the price the same, use the profit to pay more techs to work on firmware fixes and updates.

I was buying an mft and pocket cam soon anyway, so the way i see it is the pocket camera is free.

However, Im a little appauled at the way some of the more pro shooters on here are discounting the casual shooter/hobbyists feelings. Its not just the $1000, its that it is relative to a 30% loss. And now matter how you slice it, that is a big hit.

Yes, some of us have made many times that shooting with our gear, but some wont ever recoup that.. and im sure that feels a little crappy for the people in that position.

Now, more importantly, where the hell are our firmware updates? Remember all the cool things we heard were coming..in 2012
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Eduardo Gonzalez

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Re: Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction

PostFri Aug 02, 2013 2:49 pm

There are many who won't be happy until they get a free camera. How quickly we forget the many companies out there who have offered products out there and kept delaying and delaying and people kept wanting more and more. RED with their RED ONE pissed off a lot of early investors. Apple had this problem with their first iPods, (yep I remember that, but many forget because now 13 years later, they've made us forget with their great offerings).

This brings me to these next points.

I will say this, as I'm sure there will be people who are infuriated. If you look at this as a Kickstarter campaign, you essentially crowdfunded a company's first camera. $2995 would get you a camera before everyone else (yes even with all the shipping problems). A few friends of mine have received there's. In truth they said to me, it's a little annoying, but hey, we have our cameras and that's the price of being one of the first owners even if they did come late. Anyway on kickstarter campaigns, as we know, there are great products and when one invests in a product, you will pay the price for it.



This goes with virtually any product on the market. Apple should make us all very familiar to this process. Heck I paid nearly $6000.00 for their Mac Pro bundle in 2006, and the price steadily dropped to the point where you can have the same specs in a freakin' Macbook Air for $999 today. Back to my Kickstarter campaign analogy. Many times when a small company tries to get its foot in the door on making a new product we all want and could not afford before, many of us will invest with that company and try to be among the first. Problems happen. Some kickstarters never even come to full fruition but many, usually end up delivering later than anticipated.



Let's take Defygimbal or Besteady for example. These two companies are creating the best competition to Freeflysystems ridiculously overpriced (like Canon)MōVI. In order for these companies to get their feet off the ground, sometimes you still have to pay a price to do it that may be pricier than you thought it would be. Defy's $2300 Gimbal only gets you 2 lbs of weight capacity. But know what? It works and works well!! Once you figure in the cost of materials and what it takes to build it than it becomes understandable. And then Besteady's first product is priced at $600 more but for that price you get nearly 4lbs of weight capacity.



Maybe in the future when more people buy these products these will drop in price as well. It's the cost we pay of being the first in line. It's just many of us were used to being so darn upset at Blackmagic that all we can do is get mad. I still say, if they make us upset, fine but we have a decision on whether or not to purchase products through this company or the next. It's still an uphill battle. They're fighting against Canon, Nikon, Sony, and RED but all these company's are arrogant, and have a right to be. They've had decades of establishing themselves as industry leaders. But tell me this, name any other company that offers 3 cameras who all produce a RAW image, one is 1080p, one is 2.5k and the top of the line is 4k with global shutter and super 35 for $1000, $2000 and $4000 and offer the industry leading color correction program for free with two of those offerings? I have been rooting for these guys from the beginning and now for $2000.00 you can own a proper 2.5k camera? Could they be improved with aliasing and moire, telling you the battery life, letting you delete your clips in camera, telling you how much ssd room you have left? yes a million times over yes, but if this is their first offering of cameras, I hope they eventually get to the point in the next 2 years of seriously disruping the market. Canon's C300 is way over priced and so is their 1DC, but hey people will pay for it because it's a sure thing. Now you can get 4k raw with globaal shutter for $4k. I hope we can say , TAKE THAT CANON! (maybe a sub $10k C300 price drop in the near future?) We shall see. I love the free market for this reason. Competition is good. Let's enjoy it. We who buy these products are investors who want these guys to succeed. There WILL BE moments that anger us. Let it be what it is. Don't forget even Apple has had huge shipping delays on their products that are unexpected. I'm not looking to compare the two companies. I'm just saying, this company, Blackmagic Design, is changing the game for us Indy filmmakers and this is an exciting time for us. We used to have to kill ourselves and go into severe debt to get in the game. Not anymore.
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