HDR problems

I can't seem to get HDR to function properly. I've tried lots of settings from different guides, including Dolby Visions own tutorials, but both with and without Dolby Vision, it doesn't look correct and the output renders doesn't look at all like in Resolve.

I'm currently not having an output card for this, but the TV I'm usually grading on has HDR to 2000 nits and with HDR turned on in windows, Resolve should still work with it, right? But even that shouldn't affect the extreme shifts I get with my exports.

What is the basic setup for HDR at 2000 nits (using Red files)? Just so I can understand if the problems occur in grade or in export.

I use HDR10, not Dolby Vision. These are the settings I use with success.
For editing and grading.

HDR Setup.png (50.86 KiB) Viewed 6205 times

When it comes time to Deliver...

HDR Delivery 1.png (52.63 KiB) Viewed 6205 times

HDR Delievery 2.png (56.7 KiB) Viewed 6205 times

I should note these are low level corporate and event films. I'm not working at the Broadcast/Cinema level.

With the new Resolve 17 I tried testing it out to see if there's any bugs fixed.

These are my settings. However, I see no change in the image preview, other than it looking like HDR on a SDR monitor. Is Resolve unable to show HDR video in the preview window? Is it only possible to output HDR to a second monitor?

Also, everything is set to 2000 nits, but the scopes end at 900 nits when pushing gain.

These are my settings. However, I see no change in the image preview, other than it looking like HDR on a SDR monitor. Is Resolve unable to show HDR video in the preview window? Is it only possible to output HDR to a second monitor?

HDR will only look correct on an HDR screen

These are my settings. However, I see no change in the image preview, other than it looking like HDR on a SDR monitor. Is Resolve unable to show HDR video in the preview window? Is it only possible to output HDR to a second monitor?

HDR will only look correct on an HDR screen

As I mention in the first post I'm using my HDR TV, which's capable of 2000 nits, as my working monitor. HDR is on in windows and I can view HDR material on my computer and youtube, but not within Resolve.

But this doesn't matter for the scopes, they should show correctly based on the HDR settings in Resolve. 2000 nits should not cap out at 900 nits on it.

[Peter Chamberlain]

No Decklink?

These are my settings. However, I see no change in the image preview, other than it looking like HDR on a SDR monitor. Is Resolve unable to show HDR video in the preview window? Is it only possible to output HDR to a second monitor?

HDR will only look correct on an HDR screen

As I mention in the first post I'm using my HDR TV, which's capable of 2000 nits, as my working monitor. HDR is on in windows and I can view HDR material on my computer and youtube, but not within Resolve.

But this doesn't matter for the scopes, they should show correctly based on the HDR settings in Resolve. 2000 nits should not cap out at 900 nits on it.

HDR in Windows is completely broken and non standard. It changes contrast and settings on the fly and is in no way color accurate. On top of that windows color settings effect the image as well.

You have to have a secondary monitor with a decklink card for HDR grading. Because otherwise the image will never be close to accurate.


As for the scopes, the default exposure curves are locked to the maximum DR of your camera that you were shooting on. Use the LOG color wheels to push past this limit in a color managed workflow.

HDR in Windows is completely broken and non standard. It changes contrast and settings on the fly and is in no way color accurate. On top of that windows color settings effect the image as well.

It should show HDR anyway. Just because it isn't calibrated doesn't mean Resolve shouldn't show the footage in HDR. You also need to have some kind of representation of the actual image inside Resolve to accurately be able to work with it since you aren't working on your output video.

You have to have a secondary monitor with a decklink card for HDR grading. Because otherwise the image will never be close to accurate.

That's not the issue really.

As for the scopes, the default exposure curves are locked to the maximum DR of your camera that you were shooting on. Use the LOG color wheels to push past this limit in a color managed workflow.

It's Red RAW in full premium decoding, so I don't know what you mean by being locked to the camera DR? Camera is more than capable of enabling 10000 nits Dolby Vision if it were possible. The scopes max out way under the set nits of 2000. They whould max out at 2000 nits, that should be the highlight cap of the image on the scopes, but it's not.

No Decklink?

Only SDR Decklink at the moment. But that should not matter for the preview window. If I have a HDR capable monitor I should see HDR inside Resolve as well as on any output video. Otherwise I will have the preview window differ too much from the video output. Sometimes you want to see both the accurate and the almost accurate between computer monitor and output video.

So the problem here is that I cannot see any representation of HDR inside Resolve on my HDR computer screen and I cannot get scopes to work or the grade to function correctly. Nits are wrong, scopes are wrong, Dolby Vision tone mapping shows the 100 nits wrong, exports are wrong etc.

I have all the settings correctly set up in color management and the exports are correctly set to HDR export, but even a basic output without any creative grade, just a transfer from the Red files to H.265 HDR file ends up wrong. So output video in HDR is the least of my problems, Resolve doesn't handle HDR at all like it's supposed to. This happens in both 16 and 17 beta.

I agree that the scope not maxing out at 2000 nits is wrong and should in no way be linked to what your footage it or how you grade it as long as you have the project settings correctly set.

So the only question is, are the settings shown in the screenshot really correct? I'm no expert on HDR standards so I can't say for sure, but I know that I can get the scopes to max out at 2000 nits if I have my output colour space set to Rec.2020 ST2084 2000 nits and my output DRT set to None (for which you'll need to set the preset to Custom).

For some reason, the 'HDR mastering is for' setting doesn't seem to make any difference, is this a bug? At any rate this would explain why the Rec2100 ST2084 gamma setting maxes out at 1000 nits (with output DRT set to None) as it is probably just the maximum luminance for that standard.

On the waveforms on the Colour page of Resolve 17, you may need to select the three-dot control and turn On HDR. Peter also mentioned this yesterday.

On the waveforms on the Colour page of Resolve 17, you may need to select the three-dot control and turn On HDR. Peter also mentioned this yesterday.

Already done, all settings are according to how you setup HDR grading. So I've doublechecked any user errors on my side numerous times, it's not my settings that's the problem.

Beginning to think that you need a HDR decklink capable card just to get Resolve to be able to even work with HDR even if I'm not looking at any output images.

Basically, it should not matter what I see in the preview image. If I can't just have a normal HDR transfer from Red files to exported files that work as intended, there's something wrong. I should be able to blindly just adjust a R3D image through looking at the scopes alone and balancing the image to fit within the nits specified and then export, but scopes doesn't work and the exported image looks no where near even a basic correct transfer from the Red files.

Don't know what is going on here, settings all match up with everything written about HDR workflows in Resolve, nothing works.

Beginning to think that you need a HDR decklink capable card

For accurate image viewing, I agree.

On the waveforms on the Colour page of Resolve 17, you may need to select the three-dot control and turn On HDR. Peter also mentioned this yesterday.

Already done, all settings are according to how you setup HDR grading. So I've doublechecked any user errors on my side numerous times, it's not my settings that's the problem.

Beginning to think that you need a HDR decklink capable card just to get Resolve to be able to even work with HDR even if I'm not looking at any output images.

Basically, it should not matter what I see in the preview image. If I can't just have a normal HDR transfer from Red files to exported files that work as intended, there's something wrong. I should be able to blindly just adjust a R3D image through looking at the scopes alone and balancing the image to fit within the nits specified and then export, but scopes doesn't work and the exported image looks no where near even a basic correct transfer from the Red files.

Don't know what is going on here, settings all match up with everything written about HDR workflows in Resolve, nothing works.

I don't know how Windows deal with HDR but it would probably be unable to adjust based on the myriad of the possibilities DR can do (P3, 2020, HLG, PQ, 600 nit, 1000, 4000, etc.).

Anyways...

We don't use ACES for HDR correction. We manually set each parameter. For the 1000 nit that is definitely a setting issue. Normally, we set the timeline and display nit settings manually.

Can you MediaInfo your file output and post a screenshot?

Beginning to think that you need a HDR decklink capable card

For accurate image viewing, I agree.

It's not about accurate viewing, it's about getting the internals to at least work with HDR. If I can't get a normal R3D file able to be transferred into Resolve and out with HDR, then accurate viewing doesn't really matter. I first need to get it working internally, otherwise, what's the point?

I don't know how Windows deal with HDR but it would probably be unable to adjust based on the myriad of the possibilities DR can do (P3, 2020, HLG, PQ, 600 nit, 1000, 4000, etc.).

Doesn't matter, HDR content works outside of Resolve. What does Resolve show in the preview? Is it HDR10, HLG? My TV switch to the HDR mode it receives. If other content doesn't have a problem, then the problem is within Resolve. How does it handle HDR on a HDR monitor?

Or is it that no one at Blackmagic had the idea to implement HDR viewing of the preview and UI, only the output signal? So, we're working on a preview image that is totally different from the output view?
In that case, maybe just implement the ability to actually show HDR content within the UI in order to at least be close to what the output view shows. It's easy, just put in a setting where we can choose what HDR standard we want for the preview and it tone maps it towards that for the preview window. I guess it's not a thing.

We don't use ACES for HDR correction. We manually set each parameter. For the 1000 nit that is definitely a setting issue. Normally, we set the timeline and display nit settings manually.

ACES is ACES and HDR is HDR, has nothing to do with each other really. Doesn't matter if you use it or not. If the settings all match up towards a set goal for HDR, be it 1000 or 2000 nits and the metadata gamma and color spaces are through and through handled correctly, it shouldn't matter how it looks in the UI, the output should be an HDR file. Still doesn't explain why the scopes won't show the maximum nits you set. 2000 nits should not cap out at 900 nits.

It's easy, just put in a setting where we can choose what HDR standard we want for the preview and it tone maps it towards that for the preview window. I guess it's not a thing.

Since DR Preview is working within Windows GUI, Windows would handle that HDR communication between the app and the hardware (your HDR computer monitor).

ACES is ACES and HDR is HDR, has nothing to do with each other really. Doesn't matter if you use it or not. If the settings all match up towards a set goal for HDR, be it 1000 or 2000 nits and the metadata gamma and color spaces are through and through handled correctly, it shouldn't matter how it looks in the UI, the output should be an HDR file. Still doesn't explain why the scopes won't show the maximum nits you set. 2000 nits should not cap out at 900 nits.

I understand ACES is ACES. What I said is we manually select each parameter for the Color Management page. And we don't use ACES.

As we are able to achieve proper scope output (be it 1000 nit or 4000 nit setting), it is reasonable to say it is likely a setting issue.

[Peter Chamberlain]

post a link to the smallest r3d HDR file you have

Still no HDR in the preview? I have only one monitor with HDR and 1400 nits. So a decklink is not an option for me currently. If that is the only way then I have to buy a DeckLink and an Atomos Ninja for color grading... wow...