Any New Camera Rumors?

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Que Thompson

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Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 5:00 pm

I've been waiting... I think (I obviously don't have the numbers) the 12k probably isn't doing as well as expected. I'm sure the pandemic is playing a part, but I would say it's form factor also has something to do with it. The trend is "cinema in a box". That's where all the prosumers and those transitioning to "pro" (which I assume are most of Blackmagic's camera customers) are looking. We got ZCAM, Komodo, FX6, I've been given a budget (10k) to buy a new camera by a client that has me on a retainer. They're looking at the Komodo and FX6, I asked them to wait to see what Blackmagic was going to do... This was in November.

I won't be able to hold them off much longer, at least throw something out there!! A paper napkin sketch with "2021?" on it would be enough :lol:
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MrHotter

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 6:29 pm

Nothing that we've heard about. If past announcements are any indication, we will all be surprised at what we get next and when we get it.

You can always say you would suggest a BRAW workflow and that you should get the Pocket 6k and also the next camera they release that is not an URSA mini.

Either that, or suggest two Pocket 6Ks and rig one for a tripod and the other for DJI RS2 with the Raven Eye and the 3d focus system.
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 8:27 pm

what kind of work is it primarily?
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Que Thompson

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 04, 2021 11:02 pm

I have Pocket 4Ks right now. They love the image quality, it's just the form factor for rigging that is an issue. Also, autofocus would be killer in certain situations (FX6). It's mostly music artist content for a small record label. So, music videos, concerts, even some documentary/interview stuff. They want cinematic video with autofocus :lol:

I think the RED is in the mix only because of brand recognition...

I'm leaning towards the FX6 because of the autofocus and servo ability (one of the artists is in love with zoom shots). The FX6 also has ProRes Raw, but if the Atomos allowed BRAW recording it would pretty much be a done deal.

I'd like to stick with Blackmagic, but i haven't even heard a rumor of a new camera...
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Jim Simon

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 12:48 am

Que Thompson wrote:I think the RED is in the mix only because of brand recognition...

You don't think Image Quality/Price plays any part?
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Que Thompson

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 12:53 am

Jim Simon wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:I think the RED is in the mix only because of brand recognition...

You don't think Image Quality/Price plays any part?


It's not any better than the Blackmagic in my opinion.

Both the RED and Blackmagic are better than the internal FX6 codecs, but with external raw available through Atomos I'd say it's all even. All the cameras that are out now are pretty close as far as image quality. Especially if you're uploading to YouTube. I can notice some subtle differences in the images, but most people do not.

Even with those slight differences, I see these 3 cameras being all but equal in that department. I'd say color science is more distinguishable between them than image quality.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 4:58 am

If it's brand recognition, Red has come a long way. They used to be regarded as unreliable as some folks see BM today.
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bmpcc6k

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 5:42 am

I myself considering to buy bmpcc6k, but deep inside i feel that blackmagic will announce a new pocket type camera or box type of camera in 2021-2022.

I wished that Grant Perry could act and have a open type conversation in this forum, on facebook and etc.. with his potential clients, hear their suggestions, talk and discuss with them about blackmagic gear and tell about the new coming announcements.

I really was amased how Jarred Land is active in all social platforms and i am thankful for his willingness to keeping us notified about any updates considering about Komodo camera or other their red gear.

I think blackmagic need to have this kind of strategy, someone should actively be in contact with the users of blackmagic gear in social platforms and i am not talking about support center team i mean someone like Grant Perry.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 6:00 am

I don't think so. Red has been talking about future products for a long time. Some never saw the light of day, some were crap and others came very late.

I think BM has learned that lesson, they had some products that were announced and came a year later. They don't do that anymore. I'd rather base my buying decisions on something that exists. If it's delayed by demand and/or a pandemie, that's something else.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 7:10 am

Uli Plank wrote:I don't think so. Red has been talking about future products for a long time. Some never saw the light of day, some were crap and others came very late..

I seem to remember RED announcing the plans to do a 28K camera back in 2010... Never came to fruition.
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bmpcc6k

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 8:18 am

I dont see any problem for blackmagic to share their vision of new gear with us.
At least giving us some hints what when which type of camera will be announced.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 9:30 am

The problem would come from saying 'We have an 8k global sensor box camera coming early 2022' - that's in a year, so anyone looking to buy a new camera might hold off until then. But what if the pandemic continues and they can't make it until 2023? That's a lot of lost sales from people who might be more than happy with the Pocket 6k, which they can buy right now.

How will your client look at you if you tell them to wait for Blackmagic to maybe announce something in April, and the announcement is either a camera not suitable for the job you have to do, or it's a year long wait?

If I were them, while waiting for all that to play out, I'd search for someone with gear ready to use today.

Tech is always progressing, so there's always something to wait for. At some point you need to narrow your choices down to what's available right now and get on with the job. There are no bad choices anymore.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 05, 2021 9:31 am

Que Thompson wrote:The trend is "cinema in a box". That's where all the prosumers and those transitioning to "pro" (which I assume are most of Blackmagic's camera customers) are looking. We got ZCAM, Komodo, FX6, I've been given a budget (10k) to buy a new camera by a client that has me on a retainer.


Que Thompson wrote:I have Pocket 4Ks right now. They love the image quality, it's just the form factor for rigging that is an issue. Also, autofocus would be killer in certain situations (FX6).

I'm leaning towards the FX6 because of the autofocus and servo ability (one of the artists is in love with zoom shots). The FX6 also has ProRes Raw, but if the Atomos allowed BRAW recording it would pretty much be a done deal.


I suspect that Pocket 4K owners are a diverse group that includes a good number of people who don’t make their living from the camera and don’t plan to. I would think that Blackmagic will lose many of these people as buyers if it decides to replace its pocket camera with a modular box camera. It’s impossible to assess the significance of losing those owners without knowing how important they are to Blackmagic’s current and future revenues. That requires information that Blackmagic, and perhaps a reseller as big as B&H, may have, but others probably don’t.

Going forward, I suspect that one of Blackmagic’s challenges is making a 4K camera that can compete for market share against other cameras, including hybrid cameras, that are improving on features in relation to price. I doubt that turning the camera into a modular box is high on the list of things that will accomplish that. I also wonder how many purchasers of the Pocket 4K care about Blackmagic Raw one way or the other.

As a matter of curiosity, is it the client camera owner or the camera operator who has an issue with the Pocket 4K form factor?
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Derfla

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostWed Jan 06, 2021 9:04 pm

bmpcc6k wrote:I myself considering to buy bmpcc6k, but deep inside i feel that blackmagic will announce a new pocket type camera or box type of camera in 2021-2022.

I wished that Grant Perry could act and have a open type conversation in this forum, on facebook and etc.. with his potential clients, hear their suggestions, talk and discuss with them about blackmagic gear and tell about the new coming announcements.


I hear what you are saying, but is it realistic to expect a CEO or President of a company to spend time on forums and other social media forums? I have seen some try only to get ridiculed and disrespected by cowardly keyboard warriors. They wind up leaving the forum and I can't say I blame them.

I am sure that Mr. Grant has people on the payroll who collect customer ideas, suggestions, etc. on his behalf. BMD products are very intuitive and user friendly. This is more than likely a result of gathering such data from end-users. I have no doubt that Mr. Grant is in tune with BMD customers to the best of his ability.

Personally, I enjoy the product videos he does on their website. I find them helpful.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostSat Jan 09, 2021 5:30 pm

FWIW, I too would love to see BM cameras head into territory of the more box style cameras. Just so much easier to fly on gimbals, etc...

BUT....

I've heard two excellent reasons for why the ursa mini is the shape it is -
A) The shape allowed for efficient heat dispersion, keeping FPN down. A cleaner image is a good thing. No idea how the Komodo performs, but my UMP G1 seemed to outperform my buddy's red dragon in my own personal real world grading sessions. I haven't done scientific tests in this regard, but simply trying to grade an image, I got a feel for what the cameras would deliver or not. After working together on stuff, he sold his Dragon and bought a UMP G2.

B) I think I remember Grant Petty explaining that keeping this form factor for the new 12k cam allowed them to pour all the development time and money into the new sensor tech. That's a pretty good reason.

Take everything I just reported with a grain of salt.
So while a more compact body would be fantastic, I don't think BM has made this body choice arbitrarily, or refuse to change it out of stubbornness. There are legit reasons as far as I'm aware. Maybe one day they will go to a different form factor.

Best,
Daniel
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostSat Jan 09, 2021 7:28 pm

Que Thompson wrote:I've been waiting... I think (I obviously don't have the numbers) the 12k probably isn't doing as well as expected. :


Love to understand how you came to that conclusion?

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Que Thompson

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostSun Jan 10, 2021 4:17 am

John Brawley wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:I've been waiting... I think (I obviously don't have the numbers) the 12k probably isn't doing as well as expected. :


Love to understand how you came to that conclusion?

JB
Just a guess because I don’t hear much about it, along with the pandemic and all...
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 am

John Brawley wrote:
Que Thompson wrote:I've been waiting... I think (I obviously don't have the numbers) the 12k probably isn't doing as well as expected. :


Love to understand how you came to that conclusion?

JB

For me personally I'd love to upgrade, but have no need for 12K or 8K resolution still. But the new sensor design excites me. I chose instead to invest in new cinema lenses. The DZOFilm Pictor and Vespid lenses were the best investment so that I can be better prepared for a Generation 2 12K. Haha. But still don't need so many pixels.

Also, I hope that the next 12K uses CFExpress, because I've used those recently on a Canon C300 M3 and they are really nice and awesome cards. Definitely worth it for Blackmagic to move to from CFast 2.0,
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 1:19 am

We over at Captivate Media have been incredibly impressed with our URSA 12K. Mixed in with a couple of P6K's and we're sorted. Shifting to Resolve was a great decision for our team. 2021 is looking bloody amazing with lined up work. Would be great to use the camera on a feature film but that just ins't our market. For now we'll dominate the Brisbane corporate scene 8-)

Use what is available to you now and forget chasing the gear. Let it work for you and you'll be laughing mate.

Those Pictor Zooms are on the horizon for us as well. Hearing really great things about them.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 1:39 am

Travis,

What was your final solution with the SSD cards? Did the dock that I found work out for you?
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 1:43 am

I would love to see a S35mm Pocket with something other than EF mounts. This is the single thing that has prevented me from picking up a 6K since the EF mount is far too limiting for my lens collection.

Either way, I wouldn't expect anything for a while, at least not until the Spring. For one not many people are shooting stuff right now, so the market is depressed and it makes no sense to introduce new gear when not many people are buying. Remember that a huge chunk of the business for Blackmagic isn't filmmakers but wedding/special event videographers, as well as corporate AV departments (think corporate presentations, conventions, etc.). Not a whole lot of that happening at the moment.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 1:45 am

Well we've only literally just received our shipping confirmation for the Reader!

For now we're going to use a USB 3.1 10Gbps cable to transfer the footage. For projects in 4K we're going to use the T5 SSD.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 1:25 pm

I guess there is always this option to disguise the 6K plus a coat of stove paint and a Noga arm on the top to support a monitor.
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timbutt2

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 4:43 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:We over at Captivate Media have been incredibly impressed with our URSA 12K. Mixed in with a couple of P6K's and we're sorted. Shifting to Resolve was a great decision for our team. 2021 is looking bloody amazing with lined up work. Would be great to use the camera on a feature film but that just ins't our market. For now we'll dominate the Brisbane corporate scene 8-)

Use what is available to you now and forget chasing the gear. Let it work for you and you'll be laughing mate.

Those Pictor Zooms are on the horizon for us as well. Hearing really great things about them.
Travis, I absolutely love my Pictor Zooms. Definitely one of the best purchases I made last year. The Vespid Primes are also worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 4:45 pm

Great to hear mate! You did a detailed review of them right?
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostMon Jan 11, 2021 8:24 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Great to hear mate! You did a detailed review of them right?

Will be releasing a review of the Vespid lenses soon.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostTue Jan 12, 2021 1:03 am

It appears the focus is on the UMP and Pocket form factors, which is a shame as I'd like to see an update to the Micro Cinema.
I imagine the crash-camera crowd would be happy with an update there too.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostWed Jan 13, 2021 9:08 am

timbutt2 wrote:
Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Great to hear mate! You did a detailed review of them right?

Will be releasing a review of the Vespid lenses soon.

One update, I'm waiting on DZOFilm to take a look while I try to squeeze in another shoot to get better BTS footage. But might as well add more stunning footage while I'm at it. Haha.

Actually, I shared my early preview cut with one person from DZOFilm Marketing and they love it. They've been sharing a lot of my clips. So, looking at trying to get the review on their YouTube like I did with an early test of the Pictor Zooms that I did when I first got them.

The Primes take things to another level. I'm very impressed, and I've written a full 1,000 word review to accompany the video. That's how thrilled I am with these lenses.

So, Camera & Lens Metadata is a huge important update for me across companies. DZOFilm needs to get /I Technology into their zooms and primes, and Blackmagic needs to add profiles for each lens into DaVinci Resolve to better manipulate the images in post. Maybe even going so far as to creating their own FIZ Hand Unit and Motor System. One that works with a BMD Wireless Video System and Wireless Video Assists...

You've heard my desires before. So, I expect a full new system to match this amazing 12K sensor for Generation 2 of the camera.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostWed Jan 13, 2021 8:38 pm



Okay, here's the early preview. If I make any changes it will be using footage from tomorrow's shoot to add to it, and maybe throwing more BTS in if I get it. Otherwise, it's ready for the public. Plus, the rare time I'm in front of the camera.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostWed Jan 13, 2021 8:41 pm

Cheers mate, I'll be sure to flick this link to the rest of our team.
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Derfla

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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 1:23 am

timbutt2 wrote:https://vimeo.com/495103299

Okay, here's the early preview. If I make any changes it will be using footage from tomorrow's shoot to add to it, and maybe throwing more BTS in if I get it. Otherwise, it's ready for the public. Plus, the rare time I'm in front of the camera.


Nice work as always Tim!

Question... let's talk desert island. So you have your Ursa Mini Pro G2 and can only take one lens with you. Would you take one of your new DZ0Film Pictor Zoom lenses, or one of your new Vespids?

Also, the way you describe the Vespids, new technology vintage look. Would you say that the Pictors share those same characteristics?
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 1:37 am

Looking good, Tim. Thanks for the review.
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Re: Any New Camera Rumors?

PostThu Jan 14, 2021 2:58 am

Derfla wrote:
timbutt2 wrote:https://vimeo.com/495103299

Okay, here's the early preview. If I make any changes it will be using footage from tomorrow's shoot to add to it, and maybe throwing more BTS in if I get it. Otherwise, it's ready for the public. Plus, the rare time I'm in front of the camera.


Nice work as always Tim!

Question... let's talk desert island. So you have your Ursa Mini Pro G2 and can only take one lens with you. Would you take one of your new DZ0Film Pictor Zoom lenses, or one of your new Vespids?

Also, the way you describe the Vespids, new technology vintage look. Would you say that the Pictors share those same characteristics?

Desert island, and one lens, means one thing: combine the best aspects of all the lenses and make an incredible zoom that covers all the ranges, has the minimum focus distance of the primes, has the lightweight and small size of the primes, and as well has the fast speed and parfocal nature of the zooms. A desert island lens needs to provide all the best features of each of these wonderful lenses.

I can't do desert island very well. Each lens serves a purpose. What excites me is being able to use all the lenses together. The affordable cost of all the lenses makes it so you can actually achieve this for the cost of one high end prime or zoom. Seriously, all the primes and zooms combined together cost less than one $20K lens. That's a great deal.

But yes, the Pictor's also have those same characteristics. I've found the lenses match well and you can easily cut together the Pictor Zooms and Vespid Primes. I'm going to attempt that on a short film that I want to do. Sadly I'm holding off for some pandemic needs of more vaccination out there for all. But I have a short that can show how nice all the lenses can work together.

I'm definitely pushing the lens company to go with /i Technology for future lenses. Hopefully we'll see that push happen more.

Again, keeping on topic of this thread, I want Blackmagic to focus on a lens control system integrated with their camera and video assist system. The entire wireless system should work seamlessly together with mass communication. To the degree I think audio should also be included in the Timecode protocols of it all where the audio can be recorded on a separate audio recorder, but in camera the stereo file is the mixed audio from the audio recorder. The audio recorder may be able to record more channels.

I'm excited for the future. Even if some of my ideas may take a decade to become fully fluid in the production workflow.
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Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, Pocket 6K, & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
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