Sound In the BMCC EF- When will it be Fixed ?

We are now coming up on a year from the first releases of the EF. From the first releases, Black Magic has acknowledge sound issues need to be dealt with. A feeble attempt was made with Firmware Version 1.3 to address one aspect. But nothing really changed. Firmware 1.4 is now released with no apparent reference to correcting basic sound issues. And still no sound monitoring capabilities.

It is time for Black Magic to let its costumers know what will be done to and when it will be addressed. Can we please have some straight talk on this please ??

I don't think anything will happen until the BMPCC and 4k cameras are shipped... (due to the promise of a unified firmware image). It doesn't make sense to continue developing the BMCC firmware when they're creating a new unified firmware for all their devices.

But I agree with your sentiments... it's poor show that the sound/audio monitoring is so bad and has remained in that state for so long. In addition there has been no official communication from BMD, that I am aware of, where something has been said about the future of the BMCC's firmware and the missing functions (particularly audio).

Ahaa, John, ..... I must have misunderstood Black Magic's sale literature:

Use Standard Connectors

Say goodbye to annoying custom cables you can never find when on a location shoot because Blackmagic Cinema Camera uses only standard connections! You get jack mic/line audio inputs for recording the highest quality uncompressed audio, as well as 3 Gb/s SDI out for on set monitoring or for sending to live production switchers......

Surely someone from BM can give us a straight answer on what is being done, and when it can be expected. Seems only fair to those who have been patient and in waiting so long.

This is the biggest real-world challenge I face shooting with my camera. I can live without battery percentage, I can live without HDD space meters, I can live without deleting clips on the camera. But the audio issues are a real handicap. This should be first priority. It's a basic function of the camera and it's about half broken.

This is the biggest real-world challenge I face shooting with my camera. I can live without battery percentage, I can live without HDD space meters, I can live without deleting clips on the camera. But the audio issues are a real handicap. This should be first priority. It's a basic function of the camera and it's about half broken.

Well put, Austin. With the total lack of any acknowledgement that there is an issue being addressed, BM appears to be in denial that there is a problem.

We simply need to know that a resolution is in the works.

so·lu·tion [suh-loo-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act of solving a problem, question, etc.: The situation is approaching solution.
2.
the state of being solved: a problem capable of solution.
3.
a particular instance or method of solving; an explanation or answer.

I use a Røde VideoMic Pro which feeds into the BMCC with a 1/4'' Mono Jack.

Depending on most situations I use it at 0dB and 28% on the BMCC (Audio Level).

If the situation requires more power, I turn up the 20+dB on the Videomic and reduce the BMCC level to 7-10% although Its more at risk of clipping if the scene gets loud.

I also used a cable extender and used the Røde VideoMic Pro on a boom pole 4' away.

To me it sounded like a usable and affordable solution.

so·lu·tion [suh-loo-shuhn]
noun

Like posting juvenile images in every thread that contribute nothing whatsoever to the actual debate other than sledging ?

Be a part of the discussion mate rather than heckling.

jb

More than a "debate", isn't this just a simple question being ignored (or at least danced around)? Without hearing about it being a "cinema" camera again, when will the audio in the BMCC EF be fixed?

More than a "debate", isn't this just a simple question being ignored (or at least danced around)? Without hearing about it being a "cinema" camera again, when will the audio in the BMCC EF be fixed?

Marc you know that I can't answer that question. And you know already that BMD don't talk about unannounced features. Aren't you asking a question you already know the answer to ? We all know you're not happy but it's the same song isn't it....

Clearly you've never been able to shame them or embarrass them into changing the way they choose to run their corporate communications. Yet they only time we seem to hear from you is when you can get the boots in.

Yeah. Audio isn't well implemented on this camera and it should be.. Yeah they should fix it. Yeah they know about it.

jb

But that's the point of this whole thread, isn't it John?

It is exactly the point. John, with your apparent connections, maybe you can say that. But we don't hear anything from Black Magic, and you say you can't speak for them. We bought a camera that was supposed to have professional level sound in it. It doesn't. All we as consumers are asking for is some kind of acknowledgment that there is a problem, and that it is being worked on and get some kind of idea when the fix will be here. This is not too much to expect.

Marc you know that I can't answer that question. And you know already that BMD don't talk about unannounced features.

This isn't a new feature that people are requesting, it's a bug fix.

That said, if you know what you're doing, you CAN get record pretty good sound on the BMCC. I've done it a few times now, quite successfully... but only for interviews where it's not a problem to have the sound person tethered to the camera. Otherwise, the on-camera mic on default settings is fine for syncing. It's annoying, but hardly a showstopper.

There are ways to shoot without update to firmware for sure. But they don't meet the traditional standards of assuring what is being laid to the camera track is clean and with plenty of head room. For instance, the ability to set you camera level based on a 1k tone from your mixer is sorely missed.
The ability to monitor shot with visual evidence that your audio is not clipping is missing. And there is clear evidence that the preamp itself is not set up properly to reduce noise.

The fact that Black Magic hasn't come up with firmware fix leads to some other questions, like is the hardware actually capable, and/or does Black Magic have the technical people on board who can resolve the issues.

Again, this is a matter of what was promised by the manufacturer--- professional level recording in camera and I am simply asking when will Black Magic fulfill that promise.

Any one from Black Magic have any comment on this informational request ?

Well, we finally heard something from Grant Petty regarding firmware upgrades, in his recent Black Magic Design update. There is no mention at all of sound. I suppose we should assume that Black Magic is not going to address sound. Coupled with the $ 1000 price decrease, one has to wonder if Black Magic Design is acknowledging that sound won't ever be what was originally advertised. Here is post with respect to Black Magic Design Cameras:

Camera Update

The new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is now shipping and there is a software update for it posted on our web site.

There are some new features in the software for the Pocket Cinema Camera. You can now focus by pushing the focus button when using an active MFT lens. This makes it very easy to accurately focus. The focus peaking feature is still there and you enable it by double pressing the focus button. The focus zoom feature is enabled by double pressing the OK button.

There will be an update for the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera soon that will also add these features, plus new de-bayer processing that will improve the cameras sharpness when shooting non RAW files.

The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is not yet shipping as we need some more time. Our first batch of sensors was delivered only this week, so we have not been able to complete the software for the camera. We expect to start shipping in about 3 to 4 weeks once the final software work and testing is completed.

Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction
We have worked very hard over the last year to be able to build the Blackmagic Cinema Camera at a lower cost so we can reduce the price and allow access to digital filming to a wide range of cinematographers and photographers.

We have done it and from today the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT models will be reduced in price to US$1,995. This is very exciting and is one of the proudest moments of my life to be able to do this!

I think people will be able to use the savings to invest in some exciting lenses and rigs to really boost the creative possibilities. The Blackmagic Cinema Camera is a fantastic design that's now well proven. The advantage of the 2.5K sensor is it has enough resolution to eliminate the bayer resolution loss of a HD sensor, but when shooting RAW it produces files that are too not to big to store and work with easily. It's a fantastic solution.

All orders placed that have not yet been filled, can be reduced to the new lower price.

I suppose we should assume that Black Magic is not going to address sound. Coupled with the $ 1000 price decrease, one has to wonder if Black Magic Design is acknowledging that sound won't ever be what was originally advertised.

That's how I'm reading the tea leaves.

I'll add my name to the list of unhappy customers. I love the camera even with it's quirks, but the audio is unreliable and needs to be fixed. I am baffled at the seeming lack of respect and concern Blackmagic seems to have towards it's customers. Most of the issues people are upset about could be alleviated by very simple communication and acknowledgement from the company. Ignoring it makes things much worse and causes people to get frustrated and lose faith.

I know BMD is aware of the following, but for completeness, here's what BMD has promised in writing concerning their camera's audio capabilities.

From the BMD website product pages, everything I could find that's directly or indirectly related to audio (I may have missed something). Note especially the underlined text.

=====================

BMCC:

"... a complete solution because it includes a built-in recorder and monitoring, so it’s perfect for displacing video-only cameras for work such as sporting events, weddings, music videos and more! ... includes standard jack audio so there are no custom connectors! ... You get jack mic/line audio inputs for recording the highest quality uncompressed audio ... Integrated mono microphone ... 2 x 1/4” jacks for professional balanced analog audio, switchable between mic and line levels ... 1 x 3.5mm stereo headphone output ... SDI Audio Sampling: 48 kHz and 24 bit ... "

BMPCC pocket cam:

"... everything you need ... you get a complete solution without the need to buy expensive accessories. That's vital in such an ultra compact design! With integrated stereo microphones you can also capture great quality sound ... a standard mini jack microphone input that's compatible with common AV style microphones, plus a mini jack headphone socket for audio monitoring using headphones ... without the need for a separate viewfinder or monitor ... or attach an external microphone or other accessory ... Professional Connections: Add mic, remote and monitor! Connecting to the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is easy, as it uses standard commonly available cables and connectors ... Stereo audio inputs and outputs use 3.5mm stereo jacks for connecting microphones and headphones ... Standard Audio Jack Input: With a 1/4” thread mount and 3.5mm stereo audio jack it’s easy to add an ambient or directional mic to the top of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for professional audio capture that’s embedded into the ProRes file ... Analog Audio Input 1 x 3.5mm stereo audio ... Analog Audio Output 1 x 3.5mm stereo jack headphone output ... HDMI Audio Output 2 channels 48 kHz and 24 bit ..."

BMPC-4K:

"... With built in uncompressed audio recording you can record professional audio straight to the ProRes files and totally eliminate separate audio syncing during post production ... With standard connections ... you can be confident that the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K will easily handle the rigors of location work! ... Standard Connections: No need to buy expensive custom cables! Blackmagic Production Camera 4K uses standard connections, so you never need to source custom cables! ... There are 1/4” jack mic/line inputs for recording the highest quality uncompressed audio ... a 3.5mm headphone input ... Standard Connections: Everything you need ... Professional Audio Recording: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K includes analog audio connections using 1/4” jacks. By including analog audio connections you can use external directional and ambient microphones for effects and commentary to suit your audio requirements. All audio is written to the ProRes file, so is fully synchronized with your footage ... Standard Audio 1/4” Accessories: Blackmagic Production Camera 4K features 1/4” thread mounting points on the top and bottom of the camera, plus there are audio jack inputs for external audio. This means you can easily add ambient and directional microphones and other equipment to the camera ... Integrated mono microphone ... Analog Audio Input: 2 x 1/4” jacks for professional balanced analog audio, switchable between mic and line levels ... Analog Audio Output: 1 x 3.5mm stereo headphone output ... SDI Audio Output: 2 channels in 6G-SDI 48 kHz and 24 bit ... SDI Audio Sampling 48 kHz and 24-bit ..."

================

My comments:

The way I've always read their product pages, they appear to describe camera designs that put a high priority on being fairly complete solutions, not strictly requiring a lot of of add-on hardware, including for recording high-quality sound. Maybe plug in an external mic, or a cable from a line level source, and go.

Just as the cams display zebras to indicate sensor clipping, IMHO at a minimum they should display an icon/symbol to indicate audio channel clipping (audio peaking). And, if the headphone output was clean & quiet, together with an audio peaking indicator, that's all I personally require. VUs would be sweet, but maybe and audio peaking indicator might be easier to implement? I don't know.

BMD's camera product pages describe cameras that haven't been delivered yet, including in regard to audio.

-

I'll add my name to the list of unhappy customers. I love the camera even with it's quirks, but the audio is unreliable and needs to be fixed. I am baffled at the seeming lack of respect and concern Blackmagic seems to have towards it's customers. Most of the issues people are upset about could be alleviated by very simple communication and acknowledgement from the company. Ignoring it makes things much worse and causes people to get frustrated and lose faith.

BMD engineers are aware that audio leaves much to be desired but they appear to simply include changes without any announcement. It's not ideal but that is their practice. The last couple of firmware upgrades have made unheralded changes (not necessarily improvements) so maybe this next one will too. Hope it is a real improvement.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Rick:

I am thinking 1.4 might have reverted back to what was in 1.2 because levels seem to act more like that. I wonder what your experience is.

Sure would be nice if they actually posted a list of all changes in each firmware.

Is the sound such as it is, adequate to serve as a reference track for syncing picture to externally-recorded tracks?

hold on a second.
I didn't upgrade to 1.3 cause I didn't want to deal with the new audio adjusments... kinda got used to a work flow... can anyone out there confirm or deny that the audio features in version 1.4 reverted back to 1.2?
if that is the case I might go ahead and upgrade since I am waiting anyway on my pre ordered BMCPC

Is the sound such as it is, adequate to serve as a reference track for syncing picture to externally-recorded tracks?

Yes, absolutely, if that is you work flow. This issue for those who shoot single system sound and video for any of a numerous amount of reasons. The camera was promised with professional recording capability, and it is short of that, at this point.

Thanks Chris

Rick:

I am thinking 1.4 might have reverted back to what was in 1.2 because levels seem to act more like that. I wonder what your experience is.

Sure would be nice if they actually posted a list of all changes in each firmware.

I expect Chris Hocking will post his audio level findings on version 1.4, but it sounds like there is another firmware release imminently.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Do you recall when Chris Hocking is getting back. It appears to me that 1.4 still has the low cut off issue.

Interestingly, when I shoot with the mic input at about 18% and shoot with my Juiced Link pumped all the way up, the low end seems to be supported better.

I've been informed that the camera team is aware of these concerns and is looking into it. They appreciate the testing notes that have been posted, as they are very helpful.

Do you recall when Chris Hocking is getting back. It appears to me that 1.4 still has the low cut off issue.

Interestingly, when I shoot with the mic input at about 18% and shoot with my Juiced Link pumped all the way up, the low end seems to be supported better.

No, sorry, Chris. That is an interesting find regarding the low frequency audio recorded in-camera. Chris Hocking will be interested when he reads that post.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I've been informed that the camera team is aware of these concerns and is looking into it. They appreciate the testing notes that have been posted, as they are very helpful.

Very thoughtful note, Christine. Hopefully they will get in touch with Chris Hocking at some point when able. Although there are some very good external recording options available (which include audio meters, it is very important to have an in-camera capability that works consistently across a wide range of frequencies.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hello, sorry my English is bad (i'm french) hope you'll understand me.
I have a "noob" question but i don't find the answer.
The sound of my black magic cinema camera is very bad.
I have put on the blackmagic a rode videomicpro with an adaptator (mono), i try 2 models and i have blast (souffle). I touch the different volume but more i level up more the blast is.
If i go to 4 it's ok but too low after when i listen.

So i try to with a tascam dr60. with the rodevideomic (in low and high) same pb.
So i try to with a tascam dr60. with a k66-me66 (in low, medium and high) same pb.

The sound is ok on the sd card of the tascam but always blast in the BMCC.

Do you have any solution ?

Thanks

Cédric

Cedric:

Problem here is we don't know what firmware you are running, and we are all running different firmware versions because we think it works best for us. So thus far, without a Black Magic actually addressing everything needed, we will probably see this continue.

First thing I have learned, which is not much different from any other camera, it is best to control your mic levels with a preamp. This means something like Juiced Link, or a mixer.

With current 1.4 firmware, I run the camera mic level feed adjustment around 20% and adjust mixer or preamp input from there to try to get a decent recording. We are crippled when trying to do this as the Black Magic does not provide a levels meter to make a realistic adjustment. Traditionally, with an onboard meter, I would adjust levels by adjusting a 1K tone fed from my mixer, but the lack of meters prevents us from doing that. So you are left with guessing about proper levels, hitting or missing.

Check this thread out regarding an inexpensive preamp solution.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11241

Being somewhat late to the party, I just got a BMC MFT last week and immediately updated to 1.4. I got the Alphatron EVF ($1400 extra) because I hate not having any idea what's going on with the sound. Oh, and I got an easy way to see my picture in bright outdoor situations, too...

But I have to say that thinking having audio meters in a camera is a "feature" is like saying a gas gauge in a car is a feature. Maybe it was in 1913, but in 2013 any car without one wouldn't get off the line.

I don't think a single "peak" indicator would all that useful, because it doesn't help you with general levels. A touch screen controller is not really great for riding levels, so an external mixer is essential anyway for higher quality audio. But I would like a simple way to calibrate the output from my mixer in a controlled way.

Something I'm not sure about: when the line level is set to 100%, does that mean it bypasses the pre-amp and sends incoming signal straight in? Is 100% fully open and everything down from that is attenuation, or does 100% represent some gain and there's a lower setting that does not introduce camera side audio gain. I'm still getting a fairly noisy/hissy floor at 100%, but it's the only way I can get enough signal into the camera. I find the noise floor unacceptably noisy (even compared to my 5Dmk2, where I can ratchet the input to a tick above zero and get clean gain from the mixer) .

It would be nice if they'd build a camera with digital audio in, to by-pass all the analog stages and hiss associated with it. My MixPre D has digital out, as does my Marantz 661. Wouldn't it be great to bypass XLRs and 1/4" jacks and go AES/EBU in?

The BMCC is still a work in progress (I know we live in a beta world), but fixing the metering would go a long way to making it field worthy.

From my experience the audio pre-amps in firmware 1.3 are broken (too quiet and too noisy) to the extent that you need an external pre-amp to record decent audio, to sort of bypass the camera's pre-amps. This remains the case in firmware 1.4 from what I;ve read.

With firmware 1.2.1, the BMCC's pre-amps work much better. I don't need an external pre-amp and can use a passive adaptor so I downgraded my BMCC to this firmware version.

The problem appears to be, as I might have eluded to in another post, BMD are introducing bugs in the firmware and not fixing them in later firmware releases. I'm not confident that any of their small circle of beta testers ever record in camera audio, so BMD might not be getting appropriate feedback how important the audio issues are.

Jules

i'm a recent BMCC owner, having picked one up for testing purposes.

we shoot on 5DII for BTS for a network TV show, and i bought the BMCC to demo it as a replacement for the 5DII. the show shoots on varicams in DNxHD and sometimes we give our footage to them, so that was one bonus. better general IQ than the 5DII was another reason, as well as SSD rather than CF...

but most of all, i was excited to no longer have to record dual-system sound. pluraleyes is great and all, but when you're talking about 50-60 deliverable videos per season, it gets to be a hassle.

it NEVER EVEN OCCURRED TO ME that AUDIO METERING would not be a feature on this camera. i'm utterly gobsmacked... this isn't exactly a high-end feature, and its omission (in my opinion) relegates the camera (for the time being) to being no better than the 5DII for my purposes.

poorer performance in low light, crop sensor, heavier, more complicated battery solutions... all of these were shortcomings i was aware of, but this is, frankly, shocking.

in addition, the blackout-clipping of highly overexposed portions of the image (the sun, very intense reflections, etc.) is equally unacceptable for what i'm doing.

perhaps i should have researched the camera a bit more - i'm not ruling it out yet as these seem to be things that can be addressed.

vastly disappointed so far. i really hope that BM gets their act together with the 2.5k BMCC. i realise they're in a rush to bring out their new products, but if the ones that they already offer aren't up to snuff, there's not much hope for the future models.

here's hoping things improve.

At the beginning of this thread I suggested:

"It is time for Black Magic to let its costumers know what will be done to and when it will be addressed. Can we please have some straight talk on this please ??"

There has been nothing forthcoming.

In other posts, I have wondered if Black Magic couldn't fix the sound in the camera because of what is actually on board, or there isn't enough computing resource on board, or Black Magic doesn't have the staff on board that can fix the problem.

I realize now that Black Magic might consider that any sound problem has been resolved with its latest fix, and that users should apply additional sound features in post. If this is so, I think it still would be something Black Magic should let us know about.

Is there anyone at Black Magic that will say, or has said anything about this ?

So I just downloaded firmware 1.4.1. Not sure, but in some brief testing late tonight, I thought I detected some change with lower end being better at the higher level settings. Any body else checked it out ?

I just want to add my voice to people's wishes to implement audio levels and to receive clear information from Blackmagic on what is going on with this.

PLEASE Blackmagic make this right! It would double the amount of things I could use this camera for!
I already have a monitor and it doesn't show audio levels. I don't want to spend over a $1000 just to get audio levels, that is ridiculous!

I am not saying they should have done whatever, or that they are obliged to do this. I am just asking, requesting, PLEASE do this! My camera feels crippled now, and I am using my FS100 for so many jobs I want to use the BMC for. I don't need super quality internal amps or processing, just a system where I can see what is happening and internal audio that can be used for event videos or simple docs!

Thank you!

I
PLEASE Blackmagic make this right! It would double the amount of things I could use this camera for!
I already have a monitor and it doesn't show audio levels.

Just out of curiosity, why in the world did you buy a monitor without levels?

Even if you have a camera with levels, or even if the BMC would have levels, you want them where you can see them while shooting - i.e. your offboard monitor, not at the back of the camera.

Might be doable on a tripod if you must, but with a proper balanced camera on the shoulder, you would have no chance to see them while shooting.

With this thread in mind what other monitors have audio levels? Both SDI and HDMI in and out would be good. Scopes?

Frank and Marco, you both have done a great deal of research into this. I know you use TV logic Frank, not sure about Marco. But what else is out there that's good.

How about we do this as a list?

I'm taking this to a new thread.

Even if you have a camera with levels, or even if the BMC would have levels, you want them where you can see them while shooting - i.e. your offboard monitor, not at the back of the camera.

Might be doable on a tripod if you must, but with a proper balanced camera on the shoulder, you would have no chance to see them while shooting.

Come on Frank, not everyone here is making a living shooting with this camera. Your perspective is clearly from a professional level. And whether you like it or not, this camera was intended for a bigger consumer market of filmmakers, and that is why you are able to buy it for your professional purposes so cheaply. You and the rest of the pros should not dismiss this level of users so lightly. If they weren't buying, you wouldn't have this camera either. You should be thankful for those buyers.

This is a matter of what the camera was advertised to have. Certainly, users of serious video gear have come to expect sound monitoring to be on board cameras, and Black Magic advertised this camera as having professional level sound recording capability. Now we can argue over whether that means having level monitoring, but it certainly means there should be clean sound on board.

My Marshall Monitor does not have monitoring capability. Your solution is for the consumer to lay out another $2K. This would not be necessary if Black Magic would include it in a firmware upgrade. It seems like it would be reasonably doable with a minimum of camera resources being used, otherwise how would the Magic Lantern team have done in the first release of Magic Lantern. If we had that on screen, I could decide whether to turn overlays on or off. I don't get this argument that you should have a monitor with monitoring capability.

Hi Frank: I agree with you that many shooters will want to configure their rigs so that their camera is perched directly above their shoulder. That's the ideal location. But there are quite a few shooters who'll configure their rigs with the camera in front of their face.

Why? Because BMD has gone to some trouble to provide a nice 5" touchscreen on their BMCC & BMPC-4K cameras (and a 3.5 screen on the BMPCC pocket). And, every BMD camera owner has already paid for the built-in screen. It's obviously less-expensive to configure a rig this way, and doesn't require a (not inexpensive) EVF or external monitor, plus additional cables, power & attachment brackets, etc.

True, configuring a rig so it's properly counter-balanced takes a bit of effort, but it's generally low-tech and can be effective. Likewise, adding anti-glare film and/or a LCD loupe/sun-shade is relatively easy and inexpensive. None of these things require additional power or cables.

I totally understand that many shooters, especially perhaps many "pros", will prefer using the more expensive & complex solution of using an EVF or external monitor, but not everyone will agree or choose to spend the money on it. Both camps are right. It's not an either-or situation.

Here's the lightweight (mostly carbon fiber) rig I plan to occasionally use with my BMPC-4K. I'll add anti-glare film to the the cam's LCD & hopefully be able to adapt a Hoodman HRT5 sun-shade to it (or if not, a loupe with a rods offset bracket). Eventually I may add an EVF or monitor, and of course if I do I'll reconfigure my rig accordingly so the cam can be mounted directly above my shoulder. But in the meantime I hope this will be a useful rig.

Cheers.

P.S.: Meanwhile, back to the discussion of BMD's long-promised, built-in "professional quality" camera audio capability ... coming soon I hope!

P1050441-720.jpg (96.56 KiB) Viewed 22394 times

Come on Frank, not everyone here is making a living shooting with this camera. Your perspective is clearly from a professional level. And whether you like it or not, this camera was intended for a bigger consumer market of filmmakers, and that is why you are able to buy it for your professional purposes so cheaply.

I understand what you are saying Cris, but I'm not sure if this may be a misconception.

If you look at the price and compare it to other cameras, this may look like a consumer camera. But when you think about it (raw, SDI, the need of a sophisticated computer/software and knowledge for proper post, data amount andwhatnot), it never was a consumer camera in the first place. It was a camera for filmmakers that can't afford an Alexa or Red, but are hungry for similar image quality.

It is a barebones, minimalistic, stripped down to the minimum camera that gives you the best images possible for the money. And the - almost ridiculous - low price, gives you the budget to buy all the bells and whistles you need for your personal shooting style.

Regarding the marketing - it was always marketed as a Cinema Camera - doesn't sound very conumerish to me, since very few consumers actually aim for theatrical distribution.

The specs are well known since over a year, what the firmware does and what not, is also no secret. So everybody who jumps on the camera, knows exactly what he is getting himself into.
The problem is, that a lot of folks completely ignore that, and hope for firmware miracles, that "fix" what THEY think is missing or broken, instead of buying a camera, that does (and have) what they need, when they buy it.

There is no other raw/prores camera for $2000 - that may be bad news for some, but you can't have it all for this money and a $1000 pro software on top of it. Next best bet is a Kineraw Mini for like $4000 - oh that thing doesn't even have a basic menu screen, let alone a monitor. Same goes for it's big brother (it has a menu screen at least).

This would not be necessary if Black Magic would include it in a firmware upgrade. It seems like it would be reasonably doable with a minimum of camera resources being used, otherwise how would the Magic Lantern team have done in the first release of Magic Lantern.

I have no clue, what it takes, when it comes to programming (I decided it's not my cup of tea, after wrangling with a Sinclair ZX81 and Basic for a while, back in 1981), but if it would be THAT simple, BM would have included levels in the firmware around last Christmas.
I mean, do you really think they just sit there and reading all those complains about missing VU meters for months and do nothing, when it would be just a matter of a few lines of code? BM doesn't have a top line of cameras to defend, so there is no need to cripple them in firmware, like Canon does. ML is actually just unlocking what is already there, since the hardware was underused by the crippled firmware. BM usually does the opposite, they give you the best bang for the buck possible in the first place - so there is not THAT much wiggle room in the hardware.

So yeah - meters would be nice to have (if this is even possible with the given hardware) but for $2000 you have to make some compromises.

One of the best..And the most sincere responses I have ever read from you Frank!
It is about time that people understand that just because the BMD cameras are affordable
it does not mean they are for everyone, And I hope this does not start a trivial "War of Words".

I am simply stating that many of you who are confused,
or complaining are simply not the consumers who should be buying this camera at the moment,
Maybe wait?? and when you feel you know how to edit RAW or how to use these cameras for best results.. and get the best results...Then take the plunge!

I just wanted to put my voice in so that there is a chance this will be implemented.
I know I bought the wrong monitor for this, I am not blaming anyone or looking for an argument.
If you really want to know, I didn't even realise this could be a problem, and had the monitor before the camera.

I appreciate your help Frank, I really do. But I don't care what the camera is supposed to be or do, I just look at what it can do for me. And I think it would be a great device for many documentary type works. I love the look that comes out of it. The camera has these balanced inputs and uncompressed audio codec, but it's hard to monitor for me now, so I ask for an update.

Especially since it's a feature that exists in many cameras, I think there could be a good chance it would be implemented if enough people ask.

Fair enough.

With this thread in mind what other monitors have audio levels? Both SDI and HDMI in and out would be good. Scopes?

How about we do this as a list?

Just 3 off the top of my head that have HDMI, SDI and Audio meter:
Cineroid EFV
Alphatron EVF
smallDH DP6

Just 3 off the top of my head that have HDMI, SDI and Audio meter:
Cineroid EFV
Alphatron EVF
smallDH DP6

Are you sure the DP6 has an audio meter? I have the AC7 - and it doesn't, unless they've recently added it in firmware?

Do you recall when Chris Hocking is getting back. It appears to me that 1.4 still has the low cut off issue.

Sorry guys! We've recently moved office, and have a number of massive jobs in production, pre-production and post - so I haven't had a chance to do any proper tests. I literally have both the Pocket & BMCC EF sitting on my desk at the office just waiting for me! I will try my best to at least do some basic tests on Monday.

What I can however say is that I have spoken to a number of people at Blackmagic about these issues, and they are very much aware of the issues and take them very seriously. I have no idea why they can't address them - but I can only assume there must be a really good reason. I know they've read all my complaints and feedback, and done their own internal tests - but they obviously don't say anything publicly about future firmware or fixes - so we just have to play the annoying waiting game.

Blackmagic is not the kind of company that limits things - if they could get meters working, they would release it in a heartbeat. There must be some technical limitation holding them back. Who knows what it is though.