Fluid head and Gear Weight Capacity question.

I need to be little clear about purchasing fluid head, So makin sure of weights before hand, But I've got some doubt, here it goes, Let me give weights here and if I'm wrong anywhere please do correct.

1. Camera: BMCC MFT : 3.3 lbs
2. Battery : Switronix PB70 : 1.4 lbs
3. Storage: Sandisk240 Gb : 0.81 lbs
4. lens : 1.0 lb
5. Follow focus : 0.93 lbs
6. Matte Box : 3.69 lbs
7. Cage (wooden camera ) : 1.6 lbs
8. EVF : 0.52 lbs
9. Slider (Edelcrone v2 medium) : 3.7 lbs
10. I cant find weights of Novoflex adapter or metabones speedbooster , base plate, accessory plate, mic holder, evf holder. (Assuming around 1 lb )

Total coming upto 18.2 lbs, And

Fluid head Weight capacities:

Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head load Capacity : 4.6 lb to 11lb

Sachtler FSB 6 Fluid head load Capacity : 13.2 lbs

So what does this mean do I have to select something which is above 18.2 lbs or am I doing wrong somewhere? I mean many are using Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head comfortably and my budget for head and tripod is $1200. So can I buy Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head? But what about load capacity Total coming upto 18.2 lbs but this has capacity 4.6 lb to 11lb. Also please list total weight of your gear and head u are using. I'll get an idea.

Thanks

I need to be little clear about purchasing fluid head, So makin sure of weights before hand, But I've got some doubt, here it goes, Let me give weights here and if I'm wrong anywhere please do correct.

1. Camera: BMCC MFT : 3.3 lbs
2. Battery : Switronix PB70 : 1.4 lbs
3. Storage: Sandisk240 Gb : 0.81 lbs
4. lens : 1.0 lb
5. Follow focus : 0.93 lbs
6. Matte Box : 3.69 lbs
7. Cage (wooden camera ) : 1.6 lbs
8. EVF : 0.52 lbs
9. Slider (Edelcrone v2 medium) : 3.7 lbs
10. I cant find weights of Novoflex adapter or metabones speedbooster , base plate, accessory plate, mic holder, evf holder. (Assuming around 1 lb )

Total coming upto 18.2 lbs, And

Fluid head Weight capacities:

Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head load Capacity : 4.6 lb to 11lb

Sachtler FSB 6 Fluid head load Capacity : 13.2 lbs

So what does this mean do I have to select something which is above 18.2 lbs or am I doing wrong somewhere? I mean many are using Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head comfortably and my budget for head and tripod is $1200. So can I buy Vinten Vision Blue Fluid head? But what about load capacity Total coming upto 18.2 lbs but this has capacity 4.6 lb to 11lb. Also please list total weight of your gear and head u are using. I'll get an idea.

Thanks

You could get the next one up in the Vinten range, think its called the Vision 5, or the Vision Blue 5, should be enough.

Is that weight right for your matte box? Heavier than the camera? And are you going to have all of that gear on the tripod all of the time?

No slider takes you down to 14.5lb. So you're over by the weight of the Matte box.

Check out the dvinfo forums too. There are some knowledgeable guys in their sticks forum, and sometimes the Vinten reps come on.

You could get the next one up in the Vinten range, think its called the Vision 5, or the Vision Blue 5, should be enough.

Is that weight right for your matte box? Heavier than the camera? And are you going to have all of that gear on the tripod all of the time?

No slider takes you down to 14.5lb. So you're over by the weight of the Matte box.

Check out the dvinfo forums too. There are some knowledgeable guys in their sticks forum, and sometimes the Vinten reps come on.

and abt slider, I think its better not to put that on head, may be I think its better to put ground alternative for slide shots, maybe? wat u say? and do you think matte box a must for out door shoots or can we manage with other alternatives?

Thanks , and dvinfo forums u mean http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/ ?

Why are you planning on putting the slider on the fluid head, rather than the fluid head on the slider?

Why are you planning on putting the slider on the fluid head, rather than the fluid head on the slider?

Hmm, you are right...my bad, where did my fuckin brain go. Thanks, you are right slider should be on tripod and fluid head on top of slider.

Vinten vision blue tripod can handle 55 lb and edelcrone slider can handle 16 lb , so equation works out.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... ystem.html

Hence total wight comes to 14.5 lbs which is 2.5 lb's more, Can I manage that somewhere?

The slider should go on the tripod ball mount or base, and the head mounted to the slider carriage. At least for all the different kinds of sliders I've used, haven't seen the Edelkrone one yet.

If the head is rated to hold 11 lbs, and you feel that most of the time your rig will be 14 lbs and over, then the Vision Blue 4 is not the way to go. I would go a step or two higher. If you feel that most of the time you are not above 14 lbs (or whatever) then you could go with a head rated as such, and rent heavier tripod systems for those days you know you will be over (such as using a very long zoom lens like the Zeiss or the Optimo, etc.).

Keep in mind that a 14 lbs rig will not be balanced correctly on a 11 lb head. To one's mind, a 14 lb rig may not "seem" that heavy, but in fact it is, especially if your head cannot support it. High end heads from Sachtler, Miller, O'Connor, and maybe Vinten (never used them before so can't say), are designed with springs to hold the weight of the rig and spring back to center when you let go of the pan and tilt bar. If the rig is too heavy then the head will crumble under the weight and there goes your camera. This is a safety feature, and is so convenient. However the most important aspect of a properly rated head and rig is it's fluidity of pans and tilts, thus the reason why you are about to drop $1200 on a FLUID head. Heads are rated to be able to "balance" up to a certain payload, which is the same to say as "support." When I say balance, I mean adjusting it's center of gravity of the payload in respect to the center of the head, thus becoming supported. All video heads with reputation will have sliding plates of some sort. An overloaded head that won't properly balance a rig will not pan and tilt as smoothly as you expect it to, and will introduce lots of shakes and jerks, especially when using long lenses. Your sub-thousand dollar "fluid" head just became a cheap prosumer Manfrotto 509HD (which is a piece of crap for a head rated at 44 lbs, IMHO).

Personally, a tripod is easy to rent for sure, but for me it's more important to have sticks ready to go when I need them, so I don't have to go and rent them every time. I'll rent lenses as many times a week as I want, but a tripod system should be conveniently accessible at all times. My rig comes in at around 18-20 lbs depending on the lens I use. At times when I mount for example the Zeiss LWZ2, or the Canon 600mm prime, or the Optimo to my friend's BMCC MFT, the rig is coming close to 33 lbs (I think, haven't actually weighed the rig). Best thing to do? Get yourself a scale, and weigh the rig as built. The scale will be helpful for media luggage as you travel with all of your new toys. Anyways, I have a used Sachtler Video 14 II (75mm), which they don't make anymore, but it's rated from about 10-33 lbs. I believe the Sachtler Video 15 (100mm) is the new version. When I need to, I'll rent the Video 20, but for 99% of the time I'm fine with my Video 14 II.

If you are going with the 75mm ball Sachtler series, go all the way for the FSB 8. It's a great head and support quite alot considering it's size (22 lbs), and totally worth the money. But, for a little more, you could go with a 100mm head and support much more, and never have to worry about renting sticks again.

Also, be not afraid of used gear. There are lots of used gear in great condition (for instance display models at Adorama or B&H, etc.). I got my Video 14 II used for around $1200, which came with hard case and sticks and spreader, which at retail was $2500.

Another thing to consider when estimating gear weight relative to a fluid head and tripod's capacity limits: The weight of your hand & arm "leaning" on the camera and/or fluid head.

Sometimes you can operate a cam & head using a very light touch, when you barely put much pressure (weight) on them from your hand(s).

But often you apply a fair amount of pressure for whatever reason as a normal part of operating. Note this affects the tripod itself as much as it does the head.

For example, when I use cameras on my lightweight backpacking tripod, I use a very light touch because the tripod can't support a huge amount of weight. I don't have this concern with my heavier-duty tripods.

So, add at least a few pounds to your calculation to account for the weight of your hand/arm. If you want to get scientific about it, put your hand on a good scale and weigh the effect of applying varying amounts of pressure.

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You want a head that is rated for avg payload at 50-75 percent of max payload. But heads have a mim. Weight they will balance correctly. A Miller DS20 head for example is rated for 22-lbs max. But the counterbalance spring is rated at 20lbs. So max load it will balance is around 18-20 lbs. Mim load is usually around 25-percent of max spring load, so this would be around 5-lbs.

With a lighter camera rig, on a "fixed spring" (not adjustable, which is case with older heads) you may have to adjust slider plate forward or back to find balance point. If head "springs back" load is too light. If heads falls after 30 or so degrees (does not balance or stay) load is too heavy for spring sys.

I tried to use a "max reated weight" on on a head, and this exceeded balance spring rating, and it did not work well, hard to control camera, and it would not balance correctly. I am using a Miller 20 on a DLSR and BM Pocket Camera on rail rig. It balances and works well. Maybe a tad big for the Pocket Cam, but with rail, viewfinder and larger lenses, it is right I. The weight zone of the head, anything smaller would be "shaky"

I have found using various "heavy rigs" you want to keep avg. wight of camera and rig to about 50-60 percent of max head payload, so you are in easybbalancing range of head, and have good solid control.
Same goes for sticks, a 25-lbs rig should be on a 50-lbs max rated stick, to keep rig solid. Too light a stick, results in shaky shots, especially with long lenses. You want some room between your rig max weight and the tripod/head max weight.

Had nothing but trouble with Miller. Bought an Oconnor head and it's the best purchase I've ever made. Nothing even comes close to those heads. 32lb payload.

I'd sell a kid for an OConnor. Maybe not the youngest one. Still kinda cute. But the older one? Pfttt, In a second.

You have a very good point. I was not suggesting a small Miller head for the BMCC, was just using it as an example of "how" to select a head. If I was mounting a large camera like the BMCC, I would want a larger "full size" head like a Arrow HD, or an O'Connor, rated at least 2x what my average payload would be. I have however, had good luck with the Miller and smaller Sachtler heads with smaller cameras and light rigs.

I'd sell a kid for an OConnor. Maybe not the youngest one. Still kinda cute. But the older one? Pfttt, In a second.

How did you know!

I had a bad experience with Miller products. Broke a Solo carbon sticks in the arctic, the DV20 head is worst than a manfrotto. Pan and tilt knobs instantly broke when in cold environments. Last time I went up I brought the Sachtler DV8 and it was ok..

The Miller compass series is much better. Also the Cartoni Gamma was fantastic to work with on a small short last year. Ever since I had the Oconnor 2575D on hand I always told myself I'd never go back to anything else. I bought this used Oconnor Ultimate DVS for the Black Magic Camera and it's been wonderful. I use it with the Manfrotto 536 legs. Killer combo for hiking, adventuring, freelance etc..

I'd sell a kid for an OConnor. Maybe not the youngest one. Still kinda cute. But the older one? Pfttt, In a second.

How did you know!

I had a bad experience with Miller products. Broke a Solo carbon sticks in the arctic, the DV20 head is worst than a manfrotto. Pan and tilt knobs instantly broke when in cold environments. Last time I went up I brought the Sachtler DV8 and it was ok..

The Miller compass series is much better. Also the Cartoni Gamma was fantastic to work with on a small short last year. Ever since I had the Oconnor 2575D on hand I always told myself I'd never go back to anything else. I bought this used Oconnor Ultimate DVS for the Black Magic Camera and it's been wonderful. I use it with the Manfrotto 536 legs. Killer combo for hiking, adventuring, freelance etc..

Six year olds, dude. Worst gaffers EVER. Utterly useless. Sell 'em and get what you can!

I'm way down the tripod ladder. Just got a Sachtler Ace A. But I'm totally indoors in controlled conditions , so I'm happy as a clam. Still have to hide the receipt from my wife for the next year. I have no idea what manner of domestic hell would engulf me should I come home with your set up. Damn!

I'd sell a kid for an OConnor. Maybe not the youngest one. Still kinda cute. But the older one? Pfttt, In a second.

How did you know!

I had a bad experience with Miller products. Broke a Solo carbon sticks in the arctic, the DV20 head is worst than a manfrotto. Pan and tilt knobs instantly broke when in cold environments. Last time I went up I brought the Sachtler DV8 and it was ok..

The Miller compass series is much better. Also the Cartoni Gamma was fantastic to work with on a small short last year. Ever since I had the Oconnor 2575D on hand I always told myself I'd never go back to anything else. I bought this used Oconnor Ultimate DVS for the Black Magic Camera and it's been wonderful. I use it with the Manfrotto 536 legs. Killer combo for hiking, adventuring, freelance etc..

Six year olds, dude. Worst gaffers EVER. Utterly useless. Sell 'em and get what you can!

I'm way down the tripod ladder. Just got a Sachtler Ace A. But I'm totally indoors in controlled conditions , so I'm happy as a clam. Still have to hide the receipt from my wife for the next year. I have no idea what manner of domestic hell would engulf me should I come home with your set up. Damn!

Hahahaha they might make good sandbags..? ok ya too far.
I like the Ace. My friend recently got one and I was really impressed. Great bang for your buck. Sachtler did a good move by making these accessible.

Back to the OP: I don't know if this helps but I've found that sticks that come in tripod kits are built for far more weight than the heads. Case in point, my sachtler head holds 13 pounds but the legs are good for 55. I use a couple of manfrotto magic arms directly connected to the sticks for holding monitors and sound gear which frees up the weight on the head. But I work completely indoors so its obviously no good for the run gun thing.

My cam weights 14kbs with the most heavy lens I have and that's without EVF and Cage. lol.

[/quote]

Hahahaha they might make good sandbags..? ok ya too far.
I like the Ace. My friend recently got one and I was really impressed. Great bang for your buck. Sachtler did a good move by making these accessible.[/quote]

When you first get 'em you can never imagine saying anything like that. But after a few years the humor gets blacker and blacker. By the time she's 18 I'll be a goth again.

I love my Sachtler. Its my first semi-good tripod. I'm sure I'll have it for many years.

I'd sell a kid for an OConnor. Maybe not the youngest one. Still kinda cute. But the older one? Pfttt, In a second.

Sometimes, I wish I could "like" posts on here

I think you're going to be closer to 20-21lbs. Don't forget your quick release plates, cables, batteries for EVF, etc. Asking a manufacturer for their weight specs is like asking a woman her age. Ballpark figure at best

Back to the OP: I don't know if this helps but I've found that sticks that come in tripod kits are built for far more weight than the heads. Case in point, my sachtler head holds 13 pounds but the legs are good for 55. I use a couple of manfrotto magic arms directly connected to the sticks for holding monitors and sound gear which frees up the weight on the head. But I work completely indoors so its obviously no good for the run gun thing.

Thanks

Its getting tough to select looking @ weight limitations, hence I'm looking around to rig it in minimum way possible and that will cover most of shoot types conditions for a feature so suggest me with good tripod and head brands and what all parts to eliminate on my rig (minimalist and intelligent way) I've budget of $1200 for head+tripod.

You won't find much at that price point. Manfrotto 504HD + 546B might fit your budget. Tripods and heads are tools you buy once and use for the rest of your career. Maybe save up a little more and go for something that will last you a long time. Also the above Sachtler M, L and A are great budget tripods with great fluidity. I've worked a lot with knockoff Sachtler's called "Secced" same build, extremely rugged and same exact feel as a sachtler for really cheap!. http://www.secced.com/

As for onboard camera accessories, I see people on here rigging things that are bigger than a small car. The only thing you really want on it is a battery, a monitor, mattebox and follow focus. Audio devices shouldn't even be attached to your camera. If you're getting into doing any kind of shorts, features get a sound guy.

hope this helps.

Well another couple hundred bucks you can get the Miller DS-20. Get rid of the slider and your good to go. Honestly, you don't need sliders that much. If you use them in every shot it looks dumb. Best to use them minimally IMHO.

Flat4 up there mentioned a negative in regard to the miller but thats the only complaint I've ever heard about it. Then again, he was in the freaking arctic so maybe in nicer environments its more friendly. But I would totally concur that some folk have gone crazy pimping out rigs. I keep expecting to see rim's on the bloody things.

Honestly though a nice tripod will be as much a joy to own as anything else in your kit, including cameras.

Ditto, David-- well put -- keep it simple! My Miller has been around the block a few times, still working great. And a " good" head can alwys be serviced In case a problem arises. But, I would Not use a small head like the 20 on the BMCC, go for a larger head with at least 35-40lbs rating.

I agree with what some people are saying here... go for higher weight ratings, at least 50% more than your rig at it's heaviest. There's no point in getting a head that just barely supports the rig at it's heaviest. Down the road you will wish you had more support, so just save the money and get the head that will do you justice.

Its getting tough to select looking @ weight limitations, hence I'm looking around to rig it in minimum way possible and that will cover most of shoot types conditions for a feature so suggest me with good tripod and head brands and what all parts to eliminate on my rig (minimalist and intelligent way) I've budget of $1200 for head+tripod.

Just keep an eye out - I got a brand new Vinten Vision Blue kit off eBay for about $1200. Best camera related purchase ever. It's easy to balance and a joy to use.

Well another couple hundred bucks you can get the Miller DS-20. Get rid of the slider and your good to go. Honestly, you don't need sliders that much. If you use them in every shot it looks dumb. Best to use them minimally IMHO.

Flat4 up there mentioned a negative in regard to the miller but thats the only complaint I've ever heard about it. Then again, he was in the freaking arctic so maybe in nicer environments its more friendly. But I would totally concur that some folk have gone crazy pimping out rigs. I keep expecting to see rim's on the bloody things.

Honestly though a nice tripod will be as much a joy to own as anything else in your kit, including cameras.

The DS-20 has a max capacity of 22lbs and his rig will be pretty much 20lbs. Wouldn't it be wiser to run with a head that is rated for 26 or 30 lbs?

Your'e probably right Sean, but thats why I suggested not worrying about the slider. Then he comes in at 14 pounds with plenty of wriggle room.

Though I may have had an ulterior motive. I'm sick of sliders.

Listen to Sean... he probably knows more.

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Here's to whoever's looking for a big solid tripod ...

... reminds me of the classic photo of Ron Dexter:
http://www.rondexter.com

ron_on_stilts.jpg (25.16 KiB) Viewed 9729 times